Wax in Further Stormlight Books?

[OverlordBob999]

We know that the time dilation-affected ending of WaT encompasses all of Mistborn Era 2, but would Harmony utilize Wax against Retribution at any point? TSM implies/states (I forget exactly which, forgive me) that there will be a Roshar v. Scadrial conflict in the cosmere future, though Scadrials side could also likely consist of various characters from Era 3, as well as Marsh and Kelsier. However, I would be very interested to see a Wax v. Blackthorn duel at some point. Ideologically, the law/civilization/humanity against conquest/brutality/inhumanity would be interesting, plus also cool swords versus cool guns. 

Thoughts? 

[AquaRegia he/him]

I LOVE Waxillium Ladrian.  He's one of my favorite characters in the Cosmere, and I would dearly love to see him on the page again.  When I read

Quote

Wax must choose whether to set aside his rocky relationship with God and once again become the Sword that Harmony has groomed him to be

I thought the same thing you did:  Wax vs the Rosharans!  But honestly, I think Wax's arc is done.  My best guess is that by the time we see Scadrial again, he'll be at most a mentor, more likely just a memory.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

The issue I see is that Retribution is on the run. And I think Brandon did that intentionally, because he wants to reduce the scope of the story line from gods clashing to more human proportions. And that is wise.

Very loosely it looks to me like the future will feature Scadrial and Harmony entering an internal crisis, which forces the leadership of the Ghostbloods to become more active. That may involve Roshar, but I don't see Thaidakar starting an outright interstellar war.

[BinarySecond]

I think Harmony knows where he went wrong with Wax - He's become a family man and most importantly doesn't want to be the sword. The issue regarding the actions Harmony took to try and forge his sword were immoral and traumatic.

 

He needs to embrace Ruin in order to get a sword, that is my belief. Inquisitors were perfect; effective in combat and obidient.

The horror of their creation not withstanding.

All this to say - The Sword will not be Wax it will be someone or something else. Find someone happy to be a tool of Ruin in a major way; The issue I see is this:

Can other Shards affect control on spiked individuals?

If so it would be unwise to use Hemalurgy in the creation of your army/elite soldiers.

[RedBlue]

31 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

He needs to embrace Ruin in order to get a sword, that is my belief. Inquisitors were perfect; effective in combat and obidient.

IMO Harmony’s idea of creating a ‘sword’ was flawed to begin with. Trying to make a person into a tool for a Shard to use is never going to work out well, especially for the person.

I think Harmony will end up changing his methods to focus more on empowering people to look after their own interests, either through tech or metallic arts (or a combination of both).

[BinarySecond]

9 minutes ago, RedBlue said:

IMO Harmony’s idea of creating a ‘sword’ was flawed to begin with. Trying to make a person into a tool for a Shard to use is never going to work out well, especially for the person.

I think Harmony will end up changing his methods to focus more on empowering people to look after their own interests, either through tech or metallic arts (or a combination of both).

100% agree - The very concept is flawed. Taking an budding individual and attempting to sculpt them is no way to get what Harmony wants.

 

[Y F-N she/her]

I initially thought this might happen, given certain epigraphs in Oathbringer. I still think it was initially Harmony's goal to eventually send Wax to help with the Rosharan conflict. But I think Wax is done, unfortunately for us (fortunately for him though).

[LeondeBowa]

I don't think the 50 something year old with a revolver is really going to be that big a factor in the next stage of the conflict imo

I am being flippant, but wax and whayne have always been more useful as investigators than powerhouses (though they could do that too). If you are expecting wax to be able to fight on par with the people from the super magic war world you're not really being realistic

Edited January 22, 2025 by LeondeBowa

[Trusk'our he/him]

15 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

Can other Shards affect control on spiked individuals?

If so it would be unwise to use Hemalurgy in the creation of your army/elite soldiers.

Yes, though I believe they require an additional strong Connection to do much (Ruin gets automatic access because the Spikes themselves Connect to its Intent).

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/71-shadows-of-self-houston-signing/#e2797

Cadmium (paraphrased)

We've seen someone with a Hemalurgic spike communicate or under the control of Ruin or Harmony... Can other Shards communicate or control those individuals?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Good Question. Yes...  They can certainly communicate...

Cadmium (paraphrased)

To what extent?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not to the extent that Ruin did. The others could communicate but it'd be vague or faint, not as direct as Ruin was. He connects to us, well, them through the little bit of Preservation that he had or could touch. Because the spike pierces the soul.

Cadmium (paraphrased)

What about on other planets than Scadrial?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It'd work the same way. but again probably vaguer or fainter. Might go unnoticed.

Autonomy, for example, was able to hijack Hemalurgy by using her own Godmetal to oust Harmony and establish her own Connection. This allowed her to speak through- and likely control, unless her Intent prevented it- those sufficiently pierced by Hemalurgy and one or more of her own spikes.

Still, adding mental resilience, Copperclouds, or aluminum lined helmets/caps to your Hemalurgically enhanced soldiers would be wise, particularly when treading on another Shard's home turf.

Alternatively, I suppose Ruin was able to control and hold onto his own constructs to prevent outside influences, so that could also help mitigate external forces (though Vin's Mist-enhanced Soothing to control Marsh shows this tactic isn't infallible).

[Letryx13]

On 1/21/2025 at 6:06 PM, OverlordBob999 said:

We know that the time dilation-affected ending of WaT encompasses all of Mistborn Era 2, but would Harmony utilize Wax against Retribution at any point? TSM implies/states (I forget exactly which, forgive me) that there will be a Roshar v. Scadrial conflict in the cosmere future, though Scadrials side could also likely consist of various characters from Era 3, as well as Marsh and Kelsier. However, I would be very interested to see a Wax v. Blackthorn duel at some point. Ideologically, the law/civilization/humanity against conquest/brutality/inhumanity would be interesting, plus also cool swords versus cool guns. 

Thoughts? 

Give how time is moving much faster outside of Roshar than inside, it seems unlikely.  I would have loved to see Wax visiting Roshar as a diplomat, had things gone differently on Roshar, but alas, it was not to be.

15 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The issue I see is that Retribution is on the run. And I think Brandon did that intentionally, because he wants to reduce the scope of the story line from gods clashing to more human proportions. And that is wise.

Agreed. Sanderson built up things dramatically in the first half from Kaladin trying to save bridge four to becoming a herald and Dalinar having strange "dreams" to becoming a deity. Need to reset the scale a bit.

15 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

I think Harmony knows where he went wrong with Wax - He's become a family man and most importantly doesn't want to be the sword. The issue regarding the actions Harmony took to try and forge his sword were immoral and traumatic.

I don't like what Harmony did, but at the same time, he started out the right way. He was trying to have Wax grow as a law man and warrior and eventually bring him back to Elendel. He went about handling Lessie's defiance the wrong way, but by that point, there probably wasn't enough time to find anyone else. 

14 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

100% agree - The very concept is flawed. Taking an budding individual and attempting to sculpt them is no way to get what Harmony wants.

Well, Wax had wanted to be a hero since he was a child, and I doubt that was due to any specific influence on Harmony's part. Lot's of kids on Skadriel probably dream of being like the Ascendant Warrior.  Harmony probably took advantage of that, and I'm not thrilled that he did, but at the same time, he is genuinely trying to help his people. 

One of the questions that kept coming up in Mistborn Era 2 characters was why Harmony would just let things happen, and the answer that kept coming up was how Harmony was guiding people to help.  Well, the line between guiding and manipulating is fine, so I can understand how Sazed could take things too far, despite good intentions. 

[morcey2]

Can someone make Wax the Herald of Marksmanship with all the new firearms tech that is going to be coming into play? 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

21 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

100% agree - The very concept is flawed. Taking an budding individual and attempting to sculpt them is no way to get what Harmony wants.

I need to point out that humans have been doing so for millenia. The Spartan Way works. It gets you warriors.

6 hours ago, Letryx13 said:

One of the questions that kept coming up in Mistborn Era 2 characters was why Harmony would just let things happen, and the answer that kept coming up was how Harmony was guiding people to help.  Well, the line between guiding and manipulating is fine, so I can understand how Sazed could take things too far, despite good intentions. 

No, that line is not fine. Harmony treated Waxillium like an attack dog, not like a man. There was one crucial error he made. He lied to Waxillium on who Paalm was. Incidentally Harmony failed for a reason related to the reason Jasnah Kholin failed. Utilitarianism does not work.

6 hours ago, morcey2 said:

Can someone make Wax the Herald of Marksmanship with all the new firearms tech that is going to be coming into play? 

Actually I doubt that guns will ultimately win against bladed weapons in the Cosmere. Allow me to elaborate. The decisive factor is defense. We defend against projectiles with armor. The problem with armor is that it requires more mass to protect more surface area. However, as soon as you go to active defenses like steelpushing, the scaling changes. Your surface area no longer matters. Your defensive push has to be

1. quick enough to act in time
2. powerful enough to stop a projectile

The bullet has to spend resources to

1. accelerate
2. survive the passage through the air
3. overcome defenses

Now, you cannot make a projectile arbitrarily heavy. It would kill the shooter by its recoil. Nor can you make it arbitrarily fast. It would burn up in the air. Hence at some point your weapon will have to work by a payload in its warhead as opposed to a kinetic kill. But then why do you fire it from a gun?

[BinarySecond]

49 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

I need to point out that humans have been doing so for millenia. The Spartan Way works. It gets you warriors.

In the example given they started with children. Harmony took a man that he saw potential in; much too late for similar results. Honestly; Harmony just needs to find a soldier and Wax isn't a solider, he's a cop.

 

Honestly I don't recall at what point in Wax's life Harmony took an interest, I only know it goes back as far as his time with his first wife - It could be as simple as Wax just wasn't wired up for the role despite conditioning.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

37 minutes ago, BinarySecond said:

In the example given they started with children. Harmony took a man that he saw potential in; much too late for similar results. Honestly; Harmony just needs to find a soldier and Wax isn't a solider, he's a cop.

Harmony does not want soldiers. If he wanted them, he'd make improved Koloss and Kandra and he'd arm them with high-tech weapons. The threats to Scadrial are hidden, not overt for now. He needs a 00 agent. He wants James Ladrian or Black Widow, not Captain Scadrial. A cop is closer to that than a soldier. He has a Black Widow. Now he needs a Bond and an Ironman.

[BinarySecond]

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

Harmony does not want soldiers. If he wanted them, he'd make improved Koloss and Kandra and he'd arm them with high-tech weapons. The threats to Scadrial are hidden, not overt for now. He needs a 00 agent. He wants James Ladrian or Black Widow, not Captain Scadrial. A cop is closer to that than a soldier. He has a Black Widow. Now he needs a Bond and an Ironman.

He should want a Captain America.

[Letryx13]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

No, that line is not fine. Harmony treated Waxillium like an attack dog, not like a man. There was one crucial error he made. He lied to Waxillium on who Paalm was. Incidentally Harmony failed for a reason related to the reason Jasnah Kholin failed. Utilitarianism does not work.

It's a finer line than most give it credit for. And I wouldn't say he treated Wax like a dog, but like a soldier. Wax himself set out on the path to being a law man in the roughs.  But as far as Paalm goes, the only thing we know for sure about what she was ordered to do was keep an eye on Wax and then try to draw him back to Elendel, the second of which she refused to do. Harmony's mistake was at that point, when he wasn't upfront with needing Wax's help. He should have sent another kandra to Wax to help recruit Wax back to Elendel, not had Lessie "killed" to drive him back.

But importantly, I think he learned from that mistake. I think that's why he was so more transparent about what was going on in TLM about Autonomy. Sazed said himself that he was trying to do better. 

1 hour ago, Oltux72 said:

Harmony does not want soldiers. If he wanted them, he'd make improved Koloss and Kandra and he'd arm them with high-tech weapons. The threats to Scadrial are hidden, not overt for now. He needs a 00 agent. He wants James Ladrian or Black Widow, not Captain Scadrial. A cop is closer to that than a soldier. He has a Black Widow. Now he needs a Bond and an Ironman.

He needs all of that. But I think he has the right idea in avoiding Hemalurgy. Even if he does control Ruin, there's too much opportunity to exploit it. Don't forget about the creatures that attacked Wax and Tensoon in the kandra homeland. And who knows what else it might be capable of.

1 hour ago, BinarySecond said:

He should want a Captain America.

He should want that too.

10 hours ago, morcey2 said:

Can someone make Wax the Herald of Marksmanship with all the new firearms tech that is going to be coming into play? 

Nah, he's more like a cowboy Sherlock Holmes. Way cooler.

2 hours ago, BinarySecond said:

In the example given they started with children. Harmony took a man that he saw potential in; much too late for similar results. Honestly; Harmony just needs to find a soldier and Wax isn't a solider, he's a cop.

 

Honestly I don't recall at what point in Wax's life Harmony took an interest, I only know it goes back as far as his time with his first wife - It could be as simple as Wax just wasn't wired up for the role despite conditioning.

As far as we know, the first example of Harmony trying to influence Wax directly was when Melaan gave him the first earring. And Wax was already on his way to the roughs to try and make a difference there. I don't think Harmony pushed Wax as hard as most people think. At least, not toward becoming a lawman.