Ascending to Honor

[Sparks]

Dalinar and Navani choosing and affirming to be a team in Chapter 25 is heartwarming, but is there also another possibility opening up in the Spiritual Realm?

We’ve seen with Shallan that more than one bonded spren for an individual can produce unexpected and powerful effects.

But can it work in reverse? Can a pair of like-minded, like-hearted individuals Ascend to a Shard together? Share a bond with it, or double bond it, as long as the Shard is agreeable, producing even more craziness?

 

[Dreamwa1ker she/her]

Interesting idea. And the two of them are not just two like minded people, or just bound in marriage people, they are both Bondsmiths. If anyone could do it, that is the most likely folks that could somehow manage it. Though I could see it more likely if it was like a combo-shard maybe, they both ascended and bind themselves and the Shards together.

[Atlas333]

I agree. If this were ever to happen in the cosmere this is probably the best chance it has of working. In addition to what was said above the shard is also the shard of honor. Isn't there a quote somewhere in one of the books about how honor can't exist in isolation; it's about how people treat each other and is therefore one of the shards most connected to bonds. 

[teknopathetic he/him]

I very much want a Singer to take Honour. 

[logicless.bt]

12 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I very much want a Singer to take Honour. 

Who would you suggest? I don't know if we have a singer developed enough / at the end of their arc enough to take Honor

[teknopathetic he/him]

Maybe we will get more about Venli’s mother? I’d even take Venli as she has grown on me a lot in rereads. 
 

But a plot about humans coming to terms with their colonial occupation, only to have all powers of gods still go to humans sounds … flat in tone to me. 

[Confused]

1 hour ago, logicless.bt said:

Who would you suggest? I don't know if we have a singer developed enough / at the end of their arc enough to take Honor

Leshwi seems like the perfect choice to me. I do think Singers need their own Shard. Kaladin will be the Knight of Wind, his body dead, his soul shared with Syl. Dalinar is clearly the frontrunner for Ascension to Honor, and I still believe that will happen. (I sure don't think Mraize will grab that Shard.) But IMO Leshwi is the best Singer candidate to Ascend to Honor. She's repeatedly shown herself to be honorable and a strong leader. 

I believe Venli will be a Stone Bondsmith, not a Shard.

Edited October 31, 2024 by Confused

[CtrlAltDepressed]

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

But a plot about humans coming to terms with their colonial occupation, only to have all powers of gods still go to humans sounds … flat in tone to me. 

Not to disagree with you, but just want to point out that Cultivation is a Dragon. Not really any better, but they aren't all humans

[Master Silver]

It would sorta be fitting if Leshwi became a herald of the Windrunners with bond to the spren she asked after once all the dead eyes are re-awakened. But in terms of Honor, if the Shard is poured out upon all non-fused, then we will have a planet of Windrunners, that resemble Elantris.

[Corgen]

51 minutes ago, Master Silver said:

It would sorta be fitting if Leshwi became a herald of the Windrunners with bond to the spren she asked after once all the dead eyes are re-awakened. But in terms of Honor, if the Shard is poured out upon all non-fused, then we will have a planet of Windrunners, that resemble Elantris.

I don't want to upset you, but have you read The Sunlit Man?

 

[Master Silver]

1 hour ago, Corgen said:

I don't want to upset you, but have you read The Sunlit Man?

 

No I haven't. It seemed like it was very spoilery. From what people are saying it makes me think 90% of the Windrunners die... which is exactly the noble sort of thing that they would do, Honor bless them. 

[Display-Names-Are-Stupid]

4 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

Not to disagree with you, but just want to point out that Cultivation is a Dragon. Not really any better, but they aren't all humans

And one of them was Sho-Del I believe.

[The Stick]

1 hour ago, Display-Names-Are-Stupid said:

And one of them was Sho-Del I believe.

I seen to recall this not being confirmed, but being theorized about Edgli. However, this sounds like something I have read before.

[teknopathetic he/him]

Makes me wonder if Syl pulled fully into the Physical realm with a body Ishar-Style would be able to then take up a shard. Is she a spren at that point? Or a physical being? 

Edited November 1, 2024 by teknopathetic

[Slappyface]

2 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Makes me wonder if Syl pulled fully into the Physical realm with a body Ishar-Style would be able to then take up a shard. Is she a spren at that point? Or a physical being? 

Wow, I just read a wob about this.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/6/#e310

[The Sovereign]

11 hours ago, Display-Names-Are-Stupid said:

And one of them was Sho-Del I believe.

Uli-Da (Ambition)

[The Sovereign]

10 hours ago, The Stick said:

I seen to recall this not being confirmed, but being theorized about Edgli. However, this sounds like something I have read before.

Whoops, I didn't mean to double post, but here are the relevant WOBs.

Quote

Chaos

Is Uli Da a Sho Del?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Chaos

Can we post that?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah you can go ahead and post that. That's fine.

Chaos

I figured that from the...

Brandon Sanderson

Right, the naming convention makes it really obvious. 

Chaos

But that's not posted on the Dragonsteel sample so...

Brandon Sanderson

Right. But that's canon. It's pretty obvious to me... And so it's fine with me canonizing it. I mean, I've been coy with it for years. But when I say there are Shards that aren't human. There are three races on Yolen... Adding the math together is going to get you a pretty obvious answer.

Salt Lake City signing (Dec. 16, 2017)

 

Quote

FirstSelector
Is Uli Da Ambition?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes... That one's pretty obvious, though, right?

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/173/#e8623

 

Edited November 1, 2024 by The Sovereign

[duladen he/him]

On 10/31/2024 at 7:56 PM, The Stick said:

I seen to recall this not being confirmed, but being theorized about Edgli. However, this sounds like something I have read before.

Uli Da (Ambition) is the Sho Del.

 

Ian (WeiryWriter) on Shardcast had a long standing theory that Edgli (Endowment) is a dragon.

[Ninth of the Night]

On 10/31/2024 at 5:52 PM, Master Silver said:

No I haven't. It seemed like it was very spoilery. From what people are saying it makes me think 90% of the Windrunners die... which is exactly the noble sort of thing that they would do, Honor bless them. 

Just wanted to chime in real quick for you, Sunlit Man is intended to be read before Stormlight 5. There are some spoilers of course, but it's handled in such a brilliant way as to make you even more intrigued. It doesn't give anything major away, just enough to leave you with more questions and interest in certain characters.

Anyways, on topic, I do like the idea of two people taking up one Shard together. Not sure if it could be possible, we shall see. Does seem like it would be a safer, more sanity-preserving way of controlling such vast power. A burden is always easier to shoulder when it's shared with someone who understands, and can help lessen the weight.

[Master Silver]

I really am curious what dividing a Shard in half does, not only to the power, but also to the limitations placed on Shards. Odium speaks of the power binding Dalinar eventually. Ohhhhh just had a thought. Hoid was after becoming an Elantrin. I don't remember where this was discussed, but he has been going around collecting various types of investiture. Now, I think it is safe to say that the people of Elantris are the most invested people on a large scale. After them, I'd say the Returned (but that is a very small group). I only say the Returned because they are functionally immortal. But what if instead of splintering Honor between two people, Honor, Odium, and Cultivation are shattered over Alethkar, and the combination of the three is Conquest. So you have a people who are highly invested that go forth to conquer everything. War+growth would be conquest right? 

[Morty]

The more I consider a Dalinar-Navani dual-ascension to Honor, the more likely it seems:

• It's a mode of ascension we haven't seen yet, and obvious enough to be early in a brainstorm on "what are different ways someone could ascend"
• It fits neatly with Honor's intent - marriage is a contract of fidelity
• It's adjacent to Brandon's actual theology - specifically, the tenet of marriage as a requirement for deification
• It would allow Brandon space, as an author, to explore his own marriage - what does it feel like to be in charge of something important with someone you love, but who also gets on your nerves sometimes? What does "fidelity" mean? Is there a point at which slavish adherence to a marital contract is no longer morally right?
• It would create a shard better positioned for long-term balance, which could either serve as an example to other shards of "what good looks like", or as yet another cautionary tale of how shardic power and intent can spoil even the best

This also leads me to a broader hypothesis: the long-term solution for the shards will be a democratic one; Adonalsium's power will be distributed and shared by every being in the universe (see the Iriali idea of "The One").

P.S. Long-time lurker, first post. Not quite ready for the full community commitment, but wanted to get this idea out there.

[CtrlAltDepressed]

5 minutes ago, Morty said:

This also leads me to a broader hypothesis: the long-term solution for the shards will be a democratic one; Adonalsium's power will be distributed and shared by every being in the universe

I have not seen this theory posted before, very clever. 

[duladen he/him]

3 hours ago, Morty said:

The more I consider a Dalinar-Navani dual-ascension to Honor, the more likely it seems:

• It's a mode of ascension we haven't seen yet, and obvious enough to be early in a brainstorm on "what are different ways someone could ascend"
• It fits neatly with Honor's intent - marriage is a contract of fidelity
• It's adjacent to Brandon's actual theology - specifically, the tenet of marriage as a requirement for deification
• It would allow Brandon space, as an author, to explore his own marriage - what does it feel like to be in charge of something important with someone you love, but who also gets on your nerves sometimes? What does "fidelity" mean? Is there a point at which slavish adherence to a marital contract is no longer morally right?
• It would create a shard better positioned for long-term balance, which could either serve as an example to other shards of "what good looks like", or as yet another cautionary tale of how shardic power and intent can spoil even the best

This also leads me to a broader hypothesis: the long-term solution for the shards will be a democratic one; Adonalsium's power will be distributed and shared by every being in the universe (see the Iriali idea of "The One").

P.S. Long-time lurker, first post. Not quite ready for the full community commitment, but wanted to get this idea out there.

Just to add onto this, because I think these are excellent points: Dalinar and Navani Ascending to share the Shard of Honor is a really interesting parallel/juxtaposition to Taravangian having his personality bifurcated (the divided one) in order to hold the Shard of Odium.

[Quantus he/him]

Just for a different thought entirely: What happens if Dalinar takes up the Honor Shard and still manages to Lose the Contest by some quirk or loophole?  What happens to to the various Balances of Power when one Shard's vessel (and Honor's at that) has Sworn his "Soul" and Servitude to another?