"I'm... no Radiant."

dvoraen · September 8, 2024

The Oddity

I'd like to talk about Adolin a little bit, because something suddenly jumped out at me from Rhythm of War that I'd like to go into, something that made my mouth drop. That being, "what happened with Maya and Adolin at the honorspren trial?" I may have a partial answer to that. The exact nature of how it happened is a mystery to be revealed, but I think there was an explicit hint dropped right in front of our faces, and we all missed it, despite some posts voicing the possibility. (But not presenting evidence as to why they say so, so far as I can tell.)

Let's begin with the key passage from Adolin's point of view, which I imagine we're all very well acquainted with.

As a side note, all of the bolded segments in this post's quotes are "emphasis mine", to highlight the relevant points.

Quote

Rhythm of War Chapter 94

Take it, take some of my strength.

She looked right at him, and despite her scratched-out eyes, she saw him. Adolin felt something, a warmth deep inside him.

This warmth has always been the curious part, to me. It's not described as the ready-for-action nature induced by Stormlight, or the enflamed emotional state of Voidlight, but a different sensation altogether. We now also know that it's not the sensation that comes with holding Towerlight, from the Wind and Truth excerpts. Kaladin describes it as a calming influence on him, and explicitly notes that the be-active sensation of Stormlight is absent. At first I thought it was some aspect of Honor, the whole "He lives inside the hearts of his children", much as with Navani's section when the Sibling's Rhythm is regained, but I reread another part of Rhythm of War, and suddenly something jumped out at me.

Quote

Rhythm of War Chapter 91

Lift hopped up onto his bench and stepped around Phendorana, then touched Theft, infusing him with Stormlight. He took a deep breath. And storm him, the air felt a little warmer.

We know now that Lift is not using Stormlight for her powers, but rather Lifelight. Mraize and the Sibling have both corroborated this, and Navani has also seemed to have put two and two together, when Raboniel sends her the Lifelight diamond. Of particular note is that Lift Investing Teft with Lifelight, presumably through Progression, makes him feel a little warmer. The exact same sensation that Adolin describes experiencing at the exact moment when Maya regains some of her cognition.

It's my belief that, somehow, Adolin is a nascent "Lifebinder"*, in the extremely early stages of it where not only does no one know what's going on, but we're still at step one: unexpectedly using the powers, as Kaladin used Gravitation + Adhesion to deflect arrows into the bridge runs without conscious knowledge. I realize that Brandon has said we have not seen anyone on screen use Cultivation's magic directly, but the evidence is suggesting we might actually be seeing the start of something to that effect. Additionally, we have the exchange between Adolin and Blended right after Maya's testimony, which also corroborates that what's happening between Adolin and Maya is not the formation of a Nahel bond between human and spren that traditionally leads to Surgebinding powers.

Quote

Rhythm of War Chapter 94

"Though a bond between you is."

"I'm... no Radiant," Adolin said.

"No. That is certain." Maya met Blended's gaze. "But something is happening..."

I don't think any of the Radiant spren would be mistaken about this matter. They not only seem to have an intrinsic knowledge of the Nahel bond as far as Radiants are concerned, since they can begin and end the bond to an extent as well as sense their Radiant's progress with the Ideals, but we've seen instances where spren have been able to sense that bonds are forming between others. One example of this is Timbre telling Venli that Rlain "is spoken for," right before Tumi first speaks to Rlain and Rlain presumably speaks his first "Enlightened" Words. Because of this, I don't think we can say that Blended is mistaken about the fact that this is not the Nahel bond as we know it. (And for the record, I don't think it's a Luhel bond either, since water seems to heavily factor into that, and we've seen zero evidence of Adolin needing to hydrate more.)

Another Piece of Evidence

Quote

Rhythm of War Chapter 115

"She looks better," [Adolin] said, "than she did when I saw her in the market. But I don't know, Shallan."

...

Had the limp fibers of her head pattern straightened?

...

"Testament does seem better, Adolin," Shallan said. "Thank you for speaking with her."

We curiously don't have this from Adolin's point of view, and I would very much like to know if he felt the same warming sensation when speaking with Testamant that he did when he willed his strength to Maya that led to her speaking for the first time in centuries. The point I am trying to make, however, is that Shallan's first spren seemed to improve solely through contact with Adolin, and without Adolin having a bond to her. How could Adolin do that without a source of Investiture? We know that Shallan and Adolin's expedition to Lasting Integrity was not losing Stormlight at an unexplained rate, and they had run out by the time they reached Lasting Integrity. The only possible explanation is that Adolin provided it somehow, from himself.

Conclusion

So to wrap up, what do I think is happening? I'm going to answer that as a pseudo timeline:

Adolin forms a bond with Mayalaran in her Blade form, through the use of Stormlight/Honor's Investiture to form the actual bond.
The bond sources from the human, rather than the spren, which is why it breaks the Radiant rules and doesn't seem the same to another Radiant spren.
Discovering that Maya is without a doubt a spren during the journey through the Cognitive Realm in Oathbringer led to Adolin gradually developing the Intent to truly start repairing her mind. We saw this begin in Oathbringer when he learned her name, and when she formed in his hands faster than the ten heartbeats. I don't think this will lead to "moments of Radiance" with the Words so much as increasing the Connection they have with each other over time. The bond is "growing" stronger through "nurturing", and yes I'm alluding to Cultivation's Intent.
Adolin jumpstarted the bond's growth at the honorspren trial with his Intentional "take some of my strength." This led to a momentary use of an ability that is not canonically understood (i.e., explicitly explained in the books).
With further development in the bond, we're going to see some very interesting things from Adolin Kholin and Mayalaran both.

One final point, and I will be done. I'd very much like to know if what's happening with Adolin and Maya would have been the same had Maya been a different type of Radiant spren. In other words, does it matter that she is a cultivationspren for what's happening, or could the same things have happened had she been an ashspren, honorspren, etc.?

* I really liked that questioner's name of Lifebinding for Cultivation's magic, so I wanted to give it props here.

Fyodor32768 · September 8, 2024

I think that book 5 will have BAM being freed and deadblades being restored and Adolin will become an edgedancer.

As for the type of spren, Adolin is clearly being framed as having edgedancer personal characteristics. There's a bit at the beginning of ROW where Kaladin notes how much Adolin cares about people. His whole exercise with Maya involves him remembering those who were forgotten, listening to those who were ignored etc. Whether this is a precondition for what's happening with Maya or just setting him up to be an Edgedancer once she's restored, I do not know.

coolsnow7 · September 9, 2024

The evidence brought here is woefully inadequate to justify the theory.

Etedbert · September 9, 2024

17 hours ago, coolsnow7 said:

The evidence brought here is woefully inadequate to justify the theory.

I respect the right to disagree with people, (I’m not 100% convinced of Adolin as a lifebinder myself), but I think there’s a way to disagree in a more constructive way.

If you disagree with a theory or think it lacks evidence, explain why you think that! Share WOBs or quotes that you feel disprove or weaken a theory. We’re all here to discuss topics for a reason!

Mostly, I think it’s important to be respectful of people’s opinions and theories, even when we disagree with them.

17S has a great Etiquette guide for discussions here:

CtrlAltDepressed · September 9, 2024

This is a great theory imo.

I have always known that Adolin was going to have some magic by the end of things, and I suspected it would not be Radiant powers.

We have plenty of Radiant POV's already. We know that there is Cultivation Magic separate from Radiant bonds. We have been told that there is *something* happening with Adolin and Maya. Brandon has to show us that magic somehow, and the slow progression of Adolin reviving Maya through 5 books feels perfectly on brand for Cultivation's system.

DSCrankshaw · September 9, 2024

I like this theory, though I've been playing with the idea that Adolin is a latent Bondsmith. The idea being that Bondsmiths existed before the Nahel bond. In RoW Syl explained that a Bondsmith bound the surges and brought humans to Roshar before the Nahel bond existed. Honor limited this power in some ways, but with his death those limits are loosening.

Could there be Bondsmiths without the Nahel bond? Could this be the reason that the Stormfather tried again with the Kholins after telling Gavilar he wouldn't, that they have some inherited ability with Bondsmith powers that make them prime candidates? I know that in general, powers in Roshar aren't inherited, but that's not true everywhere in the Cosmere.

Erklitt · September 10, 2024

15 hours ago, DSCrankshaw said:

Could there be Bondsmiths without the Nahel bond? Could this be the reason that the Stormfather tried again with the Kholins after telling Gavilar he wouldn't, that they have some inherited ability with Bondsmith powers that make them prime candidates?

I think you might be on to something there! Add to the facts you've mentioned that, although it was mostly through conquest, the Sunmaker and his descendant Gavilar both had a thing about 'uniting', just like Dalinar has now, though in a more peaceful fashion. And the Sunmaker's Blade was named Oathbringer. Oaths and Bonds are practically used as synonyms by the Stormfather... And there is this quote from the prologue:

Quote

This is my failure as much as yours, the Stormfather said. If I try again, I will do it differently. I thought… your family…

Yes, there is definitely something there.

Edited September 10, 2024 by Erklitt

DSCrankshaw · September 10, 2024

Of course, this isn't incompatible with the original theory on this thread. We've already seen that the Sibling's Bondsmith uses a different kind of light than the Stormfather's, so a Bondsmith can use a different light than Stormlight. We also know who the remaining Bondsmith spren is.

One thing I like about this theory is that a lot of what we've seen Adolin do can be understood as forging and altering bonds. Creating a bond with Gallant, even though Ryshadium only bond to one rider. Altering his bond with Maya. Even his personality, the ease with which he makes connections--Connections-- with others.

But ultimately it's a theory, more speculation than something I can really support.

alder24 · September 10, 2024

15 hours ago, DSCrankshaw said:

Could there be Bondsmiths without the Nahel bond?

Yes. The Order of Bondsmiths requires bonding a god spren via the Nahel Bond, but the ability of Bondsmithing exists without the order and even predates it. Rosharans would call any Connection manipulation ability a Bondsmithing.

So we had Bondsmiths exist without the Nahel Bond. Most famously Ishar was a Bondsmith before the order was created. He first was a Bondsmith on Ashyn using the invested art present there, once on Roshar he received an Honorblade giving him this ability. Both of those are without the Nahel Bond (although the Ashynite Bondsmithing is also granted by a bond between investiture and microbes, which by Rosharan terms would be called a Nahel Bond and function like one).

Cosmere spoilers:

Spoiler

And then we have other Invested Arts which can manipulate Connections - AonDor for example. Elantrians aren't Bondsmiths, but Rosharans would call what they are doing with Connections a Bondsmithing.

Spoiler

Questioner

Could you use AonDor to manipulate Connection? If so, would a real AonDor smarty be able to do something similar to a Bondsmith?

Brandon Sanderson

The short answer to your question is: yes. Let me give some explanation.

Even when you are seeings some things happening in Elantris itself, you are seeing them manipulate Connection. It is mostly reinforcing Connection, but it is, in a way, manipulation. Rewriting Connection, rewriting Identity are both things that they can do. So with enough power, with enough smartiness, what a Bondsmith can do can be done.

In fact, we have seen short-range Elsecalling done by… Obviously Elsecalling’s not Bondsmithing, but you know that a Bondsmith powered a big Elsecalling [to migrate from Ashyn], one of the big things you’ve seen a Bondsmith do is get people between planets. And you have seen people use AonDor to Elsecall. You’ve seen them Lightweave, you’ve seen them do a lot of these things. They also could do some of this same stuff.

Basically, rule of thumb is: almost anything in the cosmere that is possible can be replicated with AonDor with the right program. But you may need an injection of Investiture in certain ways.

Dragonsteel 2022 (Nov. 14, 2022)

RoW I-1:

Quote

“What do you know of my powers?” Dalinar asked her.
“Your abilities are what made the original Oathpact,” she said. “And they existed—and were named—long before the Knights Radiant were founded. A Bondsmith Connected the Heralds to Braize, made them immortal, and locked our enemies away. A Bondsmith bound other Surges and brought humans to Roshar, fleeing their dying world. A Bondsmith created—or at least discovered—the Nahel bond: the ability of spren and humans to join together into something better. You Connect things, Dalinar. Realms. Ideas. People.”

WoBs:

16 hours ago, DSCrankshaw said:

Could this be the reason that the Stormfather tried again with the Kholins after telling Gavilar he wouldn't, that they have some inherited ability with Bondsmith powers that make them prime candidates? I know that in general, powers in Roshar aren't inherited, but that's not true everywhere in the Cosmere.

I think this is highly unlikely. Both Dalinar and Gavilar are native Rosharans and powers on Roshar are not inheritable. It has been more than 7000 years since the Ashyn migration, so any traces of magical powers from Ashyn in their DNA would be gone by now. It would also be impossible to inherit those powers anyway because Ashynite powers are disease based - bacterial or viral infections give you powers, but once you get rid of illnesses, you lose them. It's not in the DNA, it's a bit similar to the Nahel Bond.

Finally, there were other people that were investigated by the Stormfather and given visions, not just Dalinar and Gavilar.

Spoiler

coltonx9

How many people, about, were sent visions by the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

The Stormfather? It was less than ten. Fewer than ten.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

Spoiler

Mr_Magatar

When Gavilar died, it took the Stormfather around five years before Dalinar started to get visions. Outside of those two, have there been any other that the Stormfather started to give visions to? If so, care to give a number?

Brandon Sanderson

Don't care to give a number, but there are others that were at least investigated.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

Diomedes · September 10, 2024

I like the theory. I don`t think that Adolin is a "new" Lifebinder though. If Adolin were to be a Lifebinder, what caused him (and nobody else?) to have acess to this new type of magic? I rather think that he is going to be of a Radiant order which uses Lifelight. Remember Surgebinding is both of Honor and Cultivation:

True Surges are of both Honor and Cultivation—Cultivation for life, Honor to make the Surge into natural law. Things must fall to the ground, so they created Surges to make it happen. RoW. ch. 31

DSCrankshaw · September 10, 2024

Thanks, Alder. That's a lot of WoBs I didn't know about. It doesn't really settle things, as I still come to the conclusion that Bondsmithing was once possible without the Nahel bond or an Honorblade, though due to the restrictions of Honor, he might have prevented it from developing any other way. And with Honor dead, such restrictions may be loosening, but it's not clear how they would develop now.

Edited September 10, 2024 by DSCrankshaw

Fallen_Jedi09 · September 13, 2024

I think it’s a solid theory. But in the excerpts and probably in the book as a whole, Brandon seems to be introducing some forms of old magic. Is it possible that the bond between Maya and Adolin be a result of the return of some form of the old magic?

dvoraen · September 13, 2024

One other point I want to raise is the following WoB that "kind of" supports the idea that Adolin is supplying Investiture directly from himself:

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10819

PrinceDusty
At the Pixel Project event, you talked about a further extent of Cultivation's magic than just the boon and bane? Are there any people alive at the end of Oathbringer who are influenced by that magic?

Brandon Sanderson
Yes, Lift. Well, I guess that's a boon, isn't it? Yes, there are. But nobody on screen that has Cultivation magic, other than boons or curses from the Nightwatcher. Yes, there is such a thing, no, there's no one else on screen. But what Lift does is a hint.

I'm presuming that what Brandon means by what Lift "does" is metabolize food into Lifelight. I'm kind of suspicious that Cultivation's magic leans along the lines of conversion. Changing an attribute into Investiture and/or an ability, like you're metabolizing it into the power after a fashion. Adolin offered Maya some of his "strength", and she regained the ability to speak. Could this have been a form of Cognitive Progression, i.e. Surgebinding? It's possible, but I'll note that Surgebinding is not the sole way one can heal in the cosmere, amongst other abilities such as illusions and transformation (soulstamps are an example). What makes me think it's not Surgebinding is the fact that not only were they not in direct contact with each other, as we've seen with every use of Progression so far, but that it would have had to have been powered by Stormlight, which was not available to Adolin at the moment this happened. So given the circumstances, this is why I'm inclined to think he converted some of his strength into Lifelight, which was used as a form of Progression.

(I'll also note that this WoB is from 2018, which is before Rhythm of War came out.)

TruthMisting · September 13, 2024

I like this, but I think it would somewhat take away from lift's whole deal. She should be on the same level as Kal and Shallan as far as reputation goes among the radiants but is held back by the fact she's a child. If she also loses being the only "lifebinder" it would kinda seem like the story is actively stripping her of importance

DSCrankshaw · September 13, 2024

I suspect that the Nightwatcher's Bondsmith probably uses Lifelight.

AquaRegia · September 15, 2024

I like it. There can be no doubt that something is going on with Maya and Adolin that cannot be explained by the "regular" Nahel bond mechanics, and this seems as likely as any other idea at the moment. Take my upvote!

FollowYourMuse · September 16, 2024

On 9/8/2024 at 3:35 PM, Fyodor32768 said:

I think that book 5 will have BAM being freed and deadblades being restored and Adolin will become an edgedancer.

As for the type of spren, Adolin is clearly being framed as having edgedancer personal characteristics. There's a bit at the beginning of ROW where Kaladin notes how much Adolin cares about people. His whole exercise with Maya involves him remembering those who were forgotten, listening to those who were ignored etc. Whether this is a precondition for what's happening with Maya or just setting him up to be an Edgedancer once she's restored, I do not know.

I am not sure I can agree with the Lifelight theory, though it is interesting.
But This I so hope, because in addition to all the lead up to it, I keep imagining training sessions with Adolin and his "instructor" Lift.

Ookla · September 16, 2024

11 hours ago, FollowYourMuse said:

I am not sure I can agree with the Lifelight theory, though it is interesting.
But This I so hope, because in addition to all the lead up to it, I keep imagining training sessions with Adolin and his "instructor" Lift.

Are we sure Lift would actually teach him Surges and not just turn him into a passable food thief?

FollowYourMuse · September 16, 2024

5 hours ago, Ookla said:

Are we sure Lift would actually teach him Surges and not just turn him into a passable food thief?

While they eat stolen food, they can make fun of clothing together.

Inevitability · September 18, 2024

I like the line of thinking but I think I’d actually take this in the opposite direction.

Recognizing that is is not in a Cosmere thread, I’ll be vague in reference.

In a Stormlight adjacent secret project, there is some language used to describe the relationship between a man and spren as Knight and Squire. If you know, you know…

What if what we are seeing with Adolin and Maya is something in that direction? Maybe this is where they realize that this is possible

Ookla · September 19, 2024

23 hours ago, Inevitability said:

I like the line of thinking but I think I’d actually take this in the opposite direction.

Recognizing that is is not in a Cosmere thread, I’ll be vague in reference.

In a Stormlight adjacent secret project, there is some language used to describe the relationship between a man and spren as Knight and Squire. If you know, you know…

What if what we are seeing with Adolin and Maya is something in that direction? Maybe this is where they realize that this is possible

(Edit: this is totally me clarifying for my own brain) Interesting! This may mean that (Spoiler following; if you didn't know what was going on for the previous post and dislike spoilers, please don't read)

Spoiler

Adolin is the "spren" filling cracks in Maya the "Knight's" soul, in which case Adolin would be no Radiant, because Maya's the Radiant of their bond.

Edited September 19, 2024 by Ookla
Clarification

gokucauthon · September 21, 2024

I like it! I'm thinking instead of the cognitive/physical bond, we are possible seeing a spiritual/physical bond.

Miyabi · September 21, 2024

On 9/8/2024 at 11:12 AM, dvoraen said:

One final point, and I will be done. I'd very much like to know if what's happening with Adolin and Maya would have been the same had Maya been a different type of Radiant spren. In other words, does it matter that she is a cultivationspren for what's happening, or could the same things have happened had she been an ashspren, honorspren, etc.?

[Consideration] This is actually one of the best points in your entire post IMO. It's important to remember that some of the Radiant Spren are more Cultivation and some more Honor. As we've seen from such a small selection of Radiant Spren it is likely their affinity to Honor or Cultivation makes a difference in the way their bond works. [Excitement] We also have the new player to the field with Enlightened versions of Spren.

"I'm... no Radiant."

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