SA5 Chapters 7 8 9

[alder24]

44 minutes ago, robardin said:

And then implied she "had already said" the Words that allowed her to do this. As in, remembered that she'd gotten pretty far in Ideals as a child. (Or... As before.)

Wait, those words sounds familiar!! WoK ch 45:

Quote

She began the process anyway. Ten heartbeats, to bring forth the fruit of her sin, the proceeds of her most horrific act. She was interrupted midway through by a voice, uncanny yet distinct:
What are you?
“What am I?” she whispered. “I’m terrified.”
This is true.

WaT ch 9:

Quote

“I’m afraid,” Shallan said.

“Afraid of everything,” she continued. “Terrified. Of the world. Of what might happen to my family. Most of all, of myself. I always have been.”

Those are the Words! Not the childhood words, but the words spoken to Testament  She started the summoning process of her Shardblade, this allowed her to Soulcast for the first time. This was Testament she was speaking to. Now she resay those Words. She reinforced her Truth spoken to Testament, she started to knowingly reswearing her Oaths with Testament. 

 

Spoiler

Havoc (paraphrased)

In Way of Kings, Shallan is being chased by Cryptics. She begins to summon her Shardblade, stops and then Soulcasts for the first time. We know from Words of Radiance that it's her bond to Pattern, her Shardblade that allows her to Soulcast. So my question is, if Shallan had not begun to summon her Blade, would she have been able to Soulcast?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

She would not have been able to. Good question! Wow. No one has ever asked me that before.

GollanczFest London (Oct. 17, 2015)

 

 

21 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

tap metal minds that were filled by a feruchemist if she presents herself as that person?

No, because she doesn't have Feruchemical powers, but with a proper medallion she probably would be able to do that.

21 minutes ago, CognitiveShadow said:

• • What if the lashing is from a fused, using voidlight though... ?

Probably not, because she lacked the needed Connection to draw in Stormlight in the first place.

 

Edit:

11 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

I'm pretty well convinced that Shallan's identities are more than just identities, and are actually capital I Identities, and she is Connected to various versions of herself that could have been. Radiant is the Shallan that would have grown up with her Herald mother teaching her how to be a Knight. Veil is the Shallan that grew up working for the Ghostbloods, learning spy craft and the like. Formless is the Shallan that would have succumbed to the depression and misery of growing up in the Davar household with that Unmade lurking about, and the abusive father...

I think she's already doing things along the same lines as Forgery, but instead of re-writing her Connections and Identity to make it so that she was born somewhere else, to different parents, in different situations, she is instead drawing upon the Connections to what could have been had things gone differently. Much like she's able to draw versions of people that could have been. She's just actually able to incorporate those people into herself. 

I do like it and it makes a lot of sense, but how is this working with "be Drehy" now? She certainly couldn't have been Drehy in any possible reality. 

Edited August 26, 2024 by alder24

[Smye]

8 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

I'm pretty well convinced that Shallan's identities are more than just identities, and are actually capital I Identities, and she is Connected to various versions of herself that could have been. Radiant is the Shallan that would have grown up with her Herald mother teaching her how to be a Knight. Veil is the Shallan that grew up working for the Ghostbloods, learning spy craft and the like. Formless is the Shallan that would have succumbed to the depression and misery of growing up in the Davar household with that Unmade lurking about, and the abusive father...

I think she's already doing things along the same lines as Forgery, but instead of re-writing her Connections and Identity to make it so that she was born somewhere else, to different parents, in different situations, she is instead drawing upon the Connections to what could have been had things gone differently. Much like she's able to draw versions of people that could have been. She's just actually able to incorporate those people into herself. 

Now THIS I can get behind... that sort of connection to her possible selves would seem likely to give those projections far more substance than others... echos from the Spiritual Realm perhaps?

[listerfeend]

28 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I do like it and it makes a lot of sense, but how is this working with "be Drehy" now? She certainly couldn't have been Drehy in any possible reality. 

Well, in my mind, they are somewhat the same thing. I think a combination of the already loosely defined "Identity" that is Shallan, mixed with her ability to "draw out" versions of people that "could be", she can also likely Connect to versions of people as they are and draw that into her Identity. I'm also wondering how much Shallan currently being in the CR might have an impact on her ability to do this. It may make it easier, or it may even make it possible. 

Edited August 26, 2024 by listerfeend

[CtrlAltDepressed]

16 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I do like it and it makes a lot of sense, but how is this working with "be Drehy" now? She certainly couldn't have been Drehy in any possible reality. 

 

9 minutes ago, Smye said:

Now THIS I can get behind... that sort of connection to her possible selves would seem likely to give those projections far more substance than others... echos from the Spiritual Realm perhaps?

 

This still feels too....clean. 

 

Identity contamination has been a huge issue. We are saying that Shallan can just, not deal with that? I reject that. I feel like there has to be more to this. 

 

Shallan being able to take metalminds (with a medallion), and steal breaths is way too easy. If Shallan can just change her Identity at will, I really don't like that. There has to be something else to this other than 'Be Drehy'

[+robardin he/him]

Other comments:

Dabbid has attracted an honorspren, and Kaladin refers to this when asking "Rlain and now Dabbid, ... did any of the other squires pick one up", ...

...but the MORE curious thing than why OG Bridge Four guys like them had never attracted a spren before, is why they never even "squired up" to Kaladin either, to draw in Stormlight the way that Lopen did right after the Battle of Narak. Or all of Bridge Thirteen did to Teft, after the Battle of Thaylen Fields.

As for honorspren, we know Rlain was "frozen out" for being a listener by Yunfah's attitude, but Dabbid is more of a curious case. I suppose with all the Windrunner squires around it'd be more natural for an honorspren to "promote" one to having their own Nahel bond, but that just goes back to the original question, why not those two guys?

It will be interesting to see what forming a Nahel bond might to to Dabbid.

Hey, who's the "ambassador" they're leaving at Lasting Integrity? I don't remember!

The Heavenly Ones ambush in the middle of seemingly nowhere in Shadesmar is clearly unusual, as is their pattern of "go for the kill" instead of their more usual skirmishing and reporting back. Should we assume this is something to do with the New Odium being a bit more forethoughtful?

Shallan's "Soulcast Illusion" of Radiant with a Shardblade was able to kill "Abidi the Monarch" physically (there's a spray of blood), rather than Shardblade fashion (burning his eyes out). Still good, though.

And, I think Abidi thinks a bit too highly of his own sanity. Calling himself "the Monarch" and wanting to "bathe in the blood of Lightweavers?" Okay, buddy.

How do all these Fused know Alethi, anyway?

[alder24]

1 minute ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This still feels too....clean. 

Identity contamination has been a huge issue. We are saying that Shallan can just, not deal with that? I reject that. I feel like there has to be more to this. 

Shallan being able to take metalminds (with a medallion), and steal breaths is way too easy. If Shallan can just change her Identity at will, I really don't like that. There has to be something else to this other than 'Be Drehy'

Yeah, "just." It only takes a rare and devastating mental disorder. She's working on getting rid of it, but for now she still has it. 

But that's what it has to be. The only way for Shallan to suck in Drehy's light was to have his Identity. I wouldn't be surprised if the change of Identity wouldn't require some familiarity with the target person, some deeper Connection for Shallan to put herself in their mindset, so maybe she can't just do it to anyone. There probably is more to unpack here, we have to see what will happen in the next chapters. But that's why it's a big thing - she might be one of the only people able to do it so "effortlessly."

[listerfeend]

4 minutes ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

This still feels too....clean. 

 

Identity contamination has been a huge issue. We are saying that Shallan can just, not deal with that? I reject that. I feel like there has to be more to this. 

 

I feel like "too clean" is a gross oversimplification of all of the things that would have to be true to make this work. 

First, you need to have a traumatic enough childhood experience to develop magic DID. Then, you also have to bond not one, but two Cryptics, and one of them needs to be "mostly dead" (to steal a phrase from Miracle Max). 

Brandon being the author who feels like limitations make magic better, I'm certain that this can't be a thing that she'd be able to just do willy nilly. She knows Drehy, they've been around each other before. Drawing out a Connection to someone that she is familiar with is probably very doable. Drawing out a Connection to a person she's never met, and has no idea who it could be? That probably wouldn't work. That would be the case of trying to use a keyed metal mind.

She has to actually know who she's trying to be and be able to draw forth that Fortune Connection somehow.

[+Child of Hodor]

I'm increasingly with @Chaos on windrunner fight scenes. There are too many of them that go on for too long.  Adolin fighting on his horse in the air was a nice touch though and the fight in the beads was cool. 

[Rorzikel]

1 minute ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:

 

 

This still feels too....clean. 

 

Identity contamination has been a huge issue. We are saying that Shallan can just, not deal with that? I reject that. I feel like there has to be more to this. 

 

Shallan being able to take metalminds (with a medallion), and steal breaths is way too easy. If Shallan can just change her Identity at will, I really don't like that. There has to be something else to this other than 'Be Drehy'

There's some qualifiers here:

• Shallan is a fellow Radiant and has authority over stormlight-based investiture.
• She knows Drehy and has preexisting connection to him.
• The Lashing was specifically placed on her by Drehy.

What we know is that usually only the Windrunner who Lashed something can reabsorb the stormlight, but that this can get around it enough that she absorb it. The important thing to note is she didn't gain the ability to use his powers to make new lashings, she just was able to fool it into not resisting.

We don't know yet if this would work on other investitures not tied to Roshar and Honor, on effects that weren't applied to her, and on Identities that she had no tie to.

 

[listerfeend]

So, I've had more thoughts about this Shallan Identity thing, and what some limitations could possibly be. 

Could she recall Breath that was stored in an object?
Probably. However, she would have to have a lot of knowledge before this would work. She'd have to know what Breaths are, and that they can be stored in objects, as well as the command to retrieve those Breaths. She would also need to know who stored them. I suspect she would also need to have Connection to that person. I think this might come in with her mental "snapshot" mnemonic device. So, if she knows what Breaths are, and that they are stored in an object, and that the person that stored them is Vasher, and she has taken a "photo" of Vasher, she could, in my theory, "be Vasher"  and use the correct Command and retrieve those Breaths.

Could she use a Coppermind?
I think also possibly, though this one gets much more murky for me. As @alder24 stated, she has no Feruchemical powers. So, it could be this is a straight no, not without a medallion that gives her F-Copper. However, I could see it working under similar constraints as Breaths. She'd have to know what a coppermind is, that it is a coppermind, and know who stored their memories in it, and have a "snapshot" of that person. Under those circumstances, the Identity might be enough for her to access those memories stored. Though I feel like that is on very shaky footing as a theory.

[alder24]

12 minutes ago, robardin said:

...but the MORE curious thing than why OG Bridge Four guys like them had never attracted a spren before, is why they never even "squired up" to Kaladin either, to draw in Stormlight the way that Lopen did right after the Battle of Narak. Or all of Bridge Thirteen did to Teft, after the Battle of Thaylen Fields.

I believe they did, but this only started to happen in OB, after some Honorspren led by Phendorana decided to bond and join Kaladin.

9 minutes ago, robardin said:

Hey, who's the "ambassador" they're leaving at Lasting Integrity? I don't remember!

Godeke, WoT ch 5:

Quote

She nodded. “Well, Radiant Godeke is staying to continue to normalize relations with the honorspren, and I might leave one of my agents as well. If you stay, that would help—they could use a solid ally here.”

 

10 minutes ago, robardin said:

Shallan's "Soulcast Illusion" of Radiant with a Shardblade was able to kill "Abidi the Monarch" physically (there's a spray of blood), rather than Shardblade fashion (burning his eyes out). Still good, though.

Well, her "Shardblade" was buried under beads - she can't just make a new Shardblade without a god metal level of investiture.

14 minutes ago, robardin said:

And, I think Abidi thinks a bit too highly of his own sanity. Calling himself "the Monarch" and wanting to "bathe in the blood of Lightweavers?" Okay, buddy.

Nah, sounds totally sane to me. You've never wanted to bath in the blood of your enemies?  

14 minutes ago, robardin said:

How do all these Fused know Alethi, anyway?

They've learned it? Most Fused were said not to be bothered by it, but some like Leshwi, Lezien and this guy clearly did. Coppermind, Regal:

Quote

Additionally, as many Fused do not bother to learn modern languages, envoyforms are necessary as interpreters, allowing Fused to communicate their will to common singers.^[45] 

 

10 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

I'm increasingly with @Chaos on windrunner fight scenes. There are too many of them that go on for too long.  Adolin fighting on his horse in the air was a nice touch though and the fight in the beads was cool. 

Agreed. I wish Adolin actually fought for real with Fused and won there. He's the best duelist and non-Radiant Shardbearer Roshar has to offer, he should be able to do it if a barely trained new Radiant can. His fight was more comical than serious.

 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

31 minutes ago, robardin said:

The Heavenly Ones ambush in the middle of seemingly nowhere in Shadesmar is clearly unusual, as is their pattern of "go for the kill" instead of their more usual skirmishing and reporting back. Should we assume this is something to do with the New Odium being a bit more forethoughtful?

It is highly suspicious. How did they learn which route the Windrunners were taking? In fact how did they know Windrunners were on a mission at all? This suggests a traitor.

[+robardin he/him]

I guess it's true that learning Alethi would help the Fused communicate not just with humans, but with former Alethi parshmen singers who wouldn't know the singer language for a while yet.

I was more commenting on how quickly they seemed to do it. They've been gone for thousands of years, since Aharietiam, it's not like any human languages they'd learned in the past are of much help with learning Alethi.

The Battle of Narak in 1173 brought in the Everstorm, so no Fused were on Roshar before then; and the occupation of Urithiru by Raboniel and Co. happens in 1175. So all in all, they've been around for maybe a bit more than two years, and yet so many Fused know Alethi who aren't scholars have bothered to acquire it? Including The Defeated One, who lived to hunt and kill Radiants? What, just to be able to taunt them?

 

1 minute ago, Oltux72 said:

It is highly suspicious. How did they learn which route the Windrunners were taking? In fact how did they know Windrunners were on a mission at all? This suggests a traitor.

Or an agent/spy in Lasting Integrity.

[Smye]

36 minutes ago, Rorzikel said:

There's some qualifiers here:

• Shallan is a fellow Radiant and has authority over stormlight-based investiture.
• She knows Drehy and has preexisting connection to him.
• The Lashing was specifically placed on her by Drehy.

What we know is that usually only the Windrunner who Lashed something can reabsorb the stormlight, but that this can get around it enough that she absorb it. The important thing to note is she didn't gain the ability to use his powers to make new lashings, she just was able to fool it into not resisting.

We don't know yet if this would work on other investitures not tied to Roshar and Honor, on effects that weren't applied to her, and on Identities that she had no tie to.

 

 

23 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

So, I've had more thoughts about this Shallan Identity thing, and what some limitations could possibly be. 

Could she recall Breath that was stored in an object?
Probably. However, she would have to have a lot of knowledge before this would work. She'd have to know what Breaths are, and that they can be stored in objects, as well as the command to retrieve those Breaths. She would also need to know who stored them. I suspect she would also need to have Connection to that person. I think this might come in with her mental "snapshot" mnemonic device. So, if she knows what Breaths are, and that they are stored in an object, and that the person that stored them is Vasher, and she has taken a "photo" of Vasher, she could, in my theory, "be Vasher"  and use the correct Command and retrieve those Breaths.

Could she use a Coppermind?
I think also possibly, though this one gets much more murky for me. As @alder24 stated, she has no Feruchemical powers. So, it could be this is a straight no, not without a medallion that gives her F-Copper. However, I could see it working under similar constraints as Breaths. She'd have to know what a coppermind is, that it is a coppermind, and know who stored their memories in it, and have a "snapshot" of that person. Under those circumstances, the Identity might be enough for her to access those memories stored. Though I feel like that is on very shaky footing as a theory.

I think it's also significant to note that she only reclaimed the Stormlight/Investiture - no whisper of any Windrunnery-ness beyond the fact that the person who initially anchored the Investiture was, himself, a Windrunner.

So far we've largely focused on Kelek's words to Shallan as indicative of her ability to manifest her illusions physically... but I think the more significant breadcrumbs are continuing BS's theme of a mass/energy/investiture equivalency:
"Kelek cocked his head. “Light… Yes. Light, energy, matter, Investiture. They’re all variations on a theme—the same essence, in different forms. That is especially important for you to understand, with your illusions.”

She frowned. “But… illusions can’t change anything, Kelek. They’re just figments made of Stormlight.”

“Oh?” Kelek said, pointing to the honorspren. “What do you think they are? Investiture. A form of Light. There were once Lightweavers who could give some substance, briefly, to the things they created.”

“There were?” Shallan said. But then she thought back to a moment at the Battle of Thaylen Field where she could have sworn she’d felt the illusory versions of Radiant and Veil as if they were briefly real. It wasn’t the only time, was it? When one of her illusions had been a little too solid?

Light… matter… energy. They were the same; when you manifested an object in Shadesmar, you used Stormlight to make a physical re-creation. And spren could be physical, even if they were made of Light."

If these three can play together, interchange... it makes sense that Shallan - with her command of light and Two-Sprenned-Oddities - might just be able to claim static investiture. Her identity blurring seems critical to her claiming investiture that has been keyed, but in no way indicates an ability to do more than simply reclaim, reuse, recycle said investiture. 

Kolo?

Edited August 26, 2024 by Smye
Spelling

[+Oltux72 he/him]

3 minutes ago, robardin said:

I was more commenting on how quickly they seemed to do it. They've been gone for thousands of years, since Aharietiam, it's not like any human languages they'd learned in the past are of much help with learning Alethi.

They have agents on Roshar. Voidspren and apparently feruchemists. They presumably ran some kind of intelligence gathering.

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

Or an agent/spy in Lasting Integrity.

How would such an agent communicate the time the Windrunners leave? Spanreeds don't work in Shadesmar, do they?

[listerfeend]

3 minutes ago, Smye said:

If these three can play together, interchange... it makes sense that Shallan - with her command of light and Two-Sprenned-Oddities - might just be able to claim static investiture. Her identity blurring seems critical to her claiming investiture that has been keyed, but in now way indicates an ability to do more than simply reclaim, reuse, recycle said investiture. 

This seems to line up pretty well with most of my assumptions. The only caveat being Nalthian Awakening, due to its 'open' nature. She'd be able to reclaim Breaths this way, and at that point, would then become a Nalthian Awakener by default!

[CognitiveShadow he/him]

1 hour ago, listerfeend said:

I feel like "too clean" is a gross oversimplification of all of the things that would have to be true to make this work. 

First, you need to have a traumatic enough childhood experience to develop magic DID. Then, you also have to bond not one, but two Cryptics, and one of them needs to be "mostly dead" (to steal a phrase from Miracle Max). 

Brandon being the author who feels like limitations make magic better, I'm certain that this can't be a thing that she'd be able to just do willy nilly. She knows Drehy, they've been around each other before. Drawing out a Connection to someone that she is familiar with is probably very doable. Drawing out a Connection to a person she's never met, and has no idea who it could be? That probably wouldn't work. That would be the case of trying to use a keyed metal mind.

She has to actually know who she's trying to be and be able to draw forth that Fortune Connection somehow.

Maybe it's similar to how she can draw on fortune when she draws pictures of people that then inspire them to change and stuff? Like she has to get to know them a little bit before she can really do that, and the same would be true with using her identity skeleton key stuff?

[Diomedes]

I  mostly loved the interaction between Kaladin and Bridge 4, also Shallan and Kelek, lots of hugs for everybody! 

Also the stare, when Kaladin did not want to say goodbye, was hilarious.

Hopefully that party in Azir will take place despite Shallan and Adolin`s problems. I really would love to see some Adolin- Kaladin -Shallan interaction, of which we did not have that much in RoW.

Was the "sense of urgency" Kaladin felt related to the attack, which happened just senteces before? Maybe this could be due to his soul having a connection with his friends? That would be kind of cool.

On Shallan`s taking the identity of Drehy and making Radiant real: I remember having had a discussion on Shallan creating illusions in the battle of Thaylen, when Ob came out. But I dont know which thread it was. Anyways she literally send out pieces of her soul to die and be resurrected:

Quote

"Each one was her. A portion of her mind. A portion of her soul. (...) Each one of her illusions that died hit her with a little shock. A sliver of her dying. Those were reborn as she pushed them out to dance again.  OB ch. 119, p. 1160

Makes sense this is brought up here again.  

[Subvisual Haze]

43 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

It is highly suspicious. How did they learn which route the Windrunners were taking? In fact how did they know Windrunners were on a mission at all? This suggests a traitor.

Mraize?  He knows Shallan is at Lasting Integrity and Shallan quite directly burned that bridge.  He could have leaked the info to Odium.

[Mack]

 

1 hour ago, robardin said:

The Heavenly Ones ambush in the middle of seemingly nowhere in Shadesmar is clearly unusual, as is their pattern of "go for the kill" instead of their more usual skirmishing and reporting back. Should we assume this is something to do with the New Odium being a bit more forethoughtful?

I've been thinking about this a lot. The way I see it T/Odium is either 

1. About to go on the mad dash conquer spree/weaken the Radiants as much as possible in the final 10 days. I find this one the least likely. 
2. As of now Shallan's plot is barreling towards Ba-Ado-Mishram. Could be T/Odium is racing to free her first, or he wants Mishram to stay imprisoned. 
3. Cleaning house so to speak. Anyone related to Sja-Anat, even though she helped Taravangian ascend. Shallan has less of a relation to her than Renarin and Rlain now. But still feels like there is more to that plot thread. Plus Renarin and Rlain have the ability to cloud the future sight. 

[+robardin he/him]

1 minute ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Mraize?  He knows Shallan is at Lasting Integrity and Shallan quite directly burned that bridge.  He could have leaked the info to Odium.

I wonder if/when Mraize/the Ghostbloods will discover that Taravangian has Ascended to be the new Vessel of Odium - the Diagram and the Ghostbloods were aware of each other, though Mraize dismissed Taravangian as an "old fool" and Adrotagia thought Mraize was the leader of the GBs, IIRC.

Mraize [to a Fused]: "Tell your master, Odium, that I have news of what Dalinar is attempting in recruiting more honorspren to his side. He would do well in destroying a number of their most senior Windrunners, along with the Kholin Highprince and the leading Lightweaver, while they are unable to summon Shardblades in Shadesmar - I can tell you where they will be traveling alone. I ask only that you be certain to destroy the Lightweaver, Shallan Davar, above all else."

Fused: "Odium bids you thanks. And he also says, tell your master Thaidakar, and I quote, 'Ascending is pretty awesome, maybe you'll get to do it again someday, jelly much? LOLOLOL.'"

Mraize [confused]: "What does 'LOLOLOL' mean? Or this talk of jelly?"

Fused: "I do not question the words of the gods, and neither should you."

 

[Smye]

1 minute ago, robardin said:

Fused: "Odium bids you thanks. And he also says, tell your master Thaidakar, and I quote, 'Ascending is pretty awesome, maybe you'll get to do it again someday, jelly much? LOLOLOL.'"

Mraize [confused]: "What does 'LOLOLOL' mean? Or this talk of jelly?"

Fused: "I do not question the words of the gods, and neither should you."

This was a storming delight! Thank you for that.

[agrabes]

5 hours ago, The Stick said:

Wow.

The revelation of the blades just fading from the physical realm after centuries is big, but at least that settles multiple arguments threads on the shard.

Shallan being able to transmute and control physical Mass with her light weaving is also very important, and I think it allows her a lot more shenanigans.

On the epigraphs, I think we can be sure it is not Kaladin, because he is specifically mentioned in the text. To me, it sounds like there will be way fewer Radiants post book, if people have no interest in bonds. I think the key to the author is who would call him Kaladin Stormblessed, Jasnah always addresses him by military rank.

Lusintia coming to bond Dabbid is pretty cool, and I really want Radiant Dabbid this book. I think it will be interesting to see whether or not his issues heal themselves, based on his perception of being different.

The Nightblood scene with Lift causing trouble made me laugh a lot.

Finally, who the storms is Abidi the Monarch? At first I thought that it could be El until the name-drop. Who on Roshar is this Fused and why have we not seen him before? I think that if he makes the Heavenly Ones more ruthless, then they might start slaughtering citizens to make Dalinar submit to stop the bloodshed. I also really wonder why this guy hates Lightweavers so much.

Shallan physically creating Radiant like Kalak said is awesome. With this, I would not be surprised if the book ends by Shallan literally making Radiant a separate body and moving the personality.

I don't think Shallan will create a separate body for Radiant.  It feels like the book is more foreshadowing that Radiant will be "reabsorbed" or whatever you want to call it similar to Veil.  For example - the thoughts Shallan had where she corrected Radiant about the true nature of herself (saying that the shard blade was never her true weapon, etc).  I see that as Shallan recognizing that Radiant is only one part of her self and that having the Radiant part of herself operate without the context of the rest of herself isn't going to end up with things going in the way that she wants.  In this case "whole Shallan" knows that you can be brave and fight in other means than just with the sword, while Radiant can only think in terms of battle.  I think that's strongly hinting that Shallan is getting better in terms of recognizing her own self as a whole person and that Radiant will fade into the background similar to how Veil was shown in earlier WaT chapters.  Not making any commentary here about real life mental health conditions, only my interpretation of what I see happening in the book.

Also, Kalak describes this capability to make a "solid" illusion as fleeting/ephemeral.  Granted, Kalak could be wrong.  But, I don't think so.  It fits with the lightweaver theme too - that the things they create are illusions and fleeting, but even something that is short lived and not strictly "real" can still be deeply meaningful.  So, I don't think it would make sense for Radiant to have its own body.

[18th Shard he/him]

I think the whole manifesting Radiant in Shadesmar is not part of the Surge of Illumination, the Lightweaving we've seen Shallan do. It's more likely related to Soulcasting and Transformation.  

[Kesamijr]

6 hours ago, Ailvara said:

Now I think another key thing is how the author calls spren:

I guess we can remove at least most (all?) Radiants out of the list, I can't imagine someone with the bond would refer to Spren as things.

I don’t think the author is referring to the spren as things! They’re saying: the fact that the Wind doesn’t think like a person shouldn’t surprise anyone familiar with spren, but fewer people are familiar with spren than at times past. It could be calling spren things but I think even a non-Radiant scholar would understand that spren are sentient (or sprentient I guess) and as such refer to them as they.