[SA5] What Will Happen to Dalinar?

[Forts Board]

Fellow Sharders, 

It appears strongly that Odium shall win the Contest of Champions. I think the Child Champion theory is a good one, but also, logistically, I doubt Brandon will want to wait 1000 Rosharan years and get to Stormlight 6 and say, "Oh, here's Jasnah, still chillin out, just waiting for Odium to come back." 

So what happens to Dalinar when (if, I suppose) he loses?

I, for one have two ideas, which I'm sure have been brought up before. One is that Dalinar will sacrifice himself so that Odium cannot use him. I would definitely prefer this to Dalinar leading Rosharan forces against Scadrial, enslaved to Odium. 

The other possibility is that TOdium might show mercy on Dalinar, and not enslave his soul. That one is a long shot, but since Taravangian and Dalinar really do like each other, I think it may be a possibility. 

Wow, that post sounds super formal! Do you guys have any thoughts?

[alder24]

6 hours ago, Forts Board said:

Fellow Sharders, 

It appears strongly that Odium shall win the Contest of Champions. I think the Child Champion theory is a good one, but also, logistically, I doubt Brandon will want to wait 1000 Rosharan years and get to Stormlight 6 and say, "Oh, here's Jasnah, still chillin out, just waiting for Odium to come back." 

So what happens to Dalinar when (if, I suppose) he loses?

I, for one have two ideas, which I'm sure have been brought up before. One is that Dalinar will sacrifice himself so that Odium cannot use him. I would definitely prefer this to Dalinar leading Rosharan forces against Scadrial, enslaved to Odium. 

The other possibility is that TOdium might show mercy on Dalinar, and not enslave his soul. That one is a long shot, but since Taravangian and Dalinar really do like each other, I think it may be a possibility. 

Wow, that post sounds super formal! Do you guys have any thoughts?

I'm of the opinion that Odium either wins, or will force Dalinar to break the terms of the contest and free himself from Roshar. Odium doesn't want to win, sure it's better than losing, but he will still stay chained by Honor if he wins. The best outcome he can get is to make Dalinar break the terms, as that would put Dalinar in Odium's hands. Dalinar's future isn't looking good, he will either be killed and turned into Fused, or experience Odium killing the Stormfather after he becomes free. 

[Argenti]

At the very least, there is no way Dalinar wins. I suspect Dalinar will either break his oath to the stormfather when loses and gets Fused, to avoid giving odium a strong card, or he breaks the agreement and odium runs free. 

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

I don't think Odium runs free

I think Dalinar will win, but Odium will use something in the agreement that none of us are seeing right now to get around the 1000 year limitation

Otherwise, what are we doing for books 6-10? Odium is still going to be in play, and I think book 10 will be the ultimate culmination of Odium's story on Roshar

I'm both excited and terrified to find out what SA5 has in store for us though

[alder24]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:39 AM, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

I don't think Odium runs free

I think Dalinar will win, but Odium will use something in the agreement that none of us are seeing right now to get around the 1000 year limitation

Otherwise, what are we doing for books 6-10? Odium is still going to be in play, and I think book 10 will be the ultimate culmination of Odium's story on Roshar

I'm both excited and terrified to find out what SA5 has in store for us though

My personal theory is that Odium will get free, he will kill the Stormfather in one way or another, by doing so he will cause an endless weeping, which will flood Roshar and specifically Kharbranth, destroying it, which will break the deal Odium and Taravangian made. That will expose Odium and force him to retreat and hide, or maybe ever some will use this opportunity to inflict another wound on him and prevent him from escaping Roshar (if he even can escape now, he's too invested in Roshar to leave it just like that, it would be very difficult for Odium to leave and he wants to use Roshar as his training ground for the great invasion on Cosmere). Odium will win but it will be a pyrrhic victory, setting up the stage for SA 6-10.

[BinarySecond]

Is there any chance one of our heroes ascends to take up Odium and just chills the heck out?

[Argenti]

1 hour ago, BinarySecond said:

Is there any chance one of our heroes ascends to take up Odium and just chills the heck out?

Would not wish the power of divine hatred onto someone, it warps people. 
Mistborn
 

Spoiler

Ati was a nice caring person.

 

[QuantumAce]

6 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Would not wish the power of divine hatred onto someone, it warps people. 

Yeah, but just imagine how fun it would be to dump that on Kaladin, right after he finds a way to deal with his depression. 

[Argenti]

Just now, QuantumAce said:

Yeah, but just imagine how fun it would be to dump that on Kaladin, right after he finds a way to deal with his depression. 

[RefusesToElaborate]

Win or lose Odium is bound to the Rosharan system. 1000 years is rust to him, but let's consider that he sees a loophole.

I think it would be cheap, and not my read on Sandersons style to have the loophole be some hidden clause in the contract that we as readers have not seen.

Thus, I admit I assume that we can see the loophole in front of us already.

I see three potential weaknesses in the terms Dalinar and Odium agreed to, the third of which is the one I believe is the loophole.

1. Child Champion, or really any opponent Dalinars champion refuses to kill. This doesn't actually break the contract it just means Odiums champion wins because Odium can inflame murderous rage in his champion and take the win. Not a true loophole IMO.

2. Grant immortality to both champions. This stretches the fight into infinity and makes it a null result, potentially just as bad as Odium being eternally bound. Though I do like the idea of two opponents locked in an infinite clash while Stormlight Era 2 happens.

3. Should Odium wins Dalinar is in his service. Odium can wick away the pain of his servants, but what if he doesn't? What if he orders Dalinar to do something so heinous thst Dalinar refuses, and that counts as breaking the contract, therefore breaking Odiums bond to the Rosharan system? Yes, Odium is bound to his agreement but he can also make it difficult for people to uphold their agreements to him.

Branderson has said that Stormlight is Dalinars story, and I am hedging my bets that Stormlight 6 begins with Dalinar breaking like the old Heralds. And that'll be his lowest point. You might say Dalinars lowest point was in Oathbringer, I say Dalinars can't have been at his lowest because Odium was trying to tempt him, that was Dalinar at his highest. "You cannot have my pain." Is not something a broken man would have declared 

[Lord Spirit]

I’m the optimist who hopes SA5 has a (relatively) happy ending. 
I think that Dalinar will win. Odium will probably find some loophole that allows him to be relevant in SA 6-10. 
 

Honestly, Not having the world end would be a pretty big twist for the way people are theorizing. 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

3 hours ago, QuantumAce said:

Yeah, but just imagine how fun it would be to dump that on Kaladin, right after he finds a way to deal with his depression. 

........

no.

Kaladin deserves to live and have a happy ending! if he doesn't have a happy ending by book ten, I am going to go storm Brandon's house, no matter how ancient I am by then.

[BinarySecond]

Can't hate the universe when you're too busy hating yourself *head tap meme*

[+Child of Hodor]

Dalinar loses the Contest ... BUT he repairs Honor enough to Ascend and Ishar has helped him become part a of the Oathpact as a Herald.  Ishar mentioned he could help Dalinar modify the Oathpact in RoW.  The Fused were trapped by the Oathpact despite not being a party to it. It was only Honor and the Heralds that made the pact.  What if Honor WAS a Herald and he essentially made a pact with himself to trap both Honor and Odium on Braize?!?!?!  We already have a Shard making a promise to its own vessel (Odium to Taravangian, although pre-Ascension).

If Dalinar loses he becomes a Fused so he'd be Herald/Fused/Vessel. Dalinar goes to Braize as a fused (assume the Everstorm has been removed from Roshar) and is like "I'm a Fused, but I'm also a Herald, oops!  I, a Fused, am stuck here so long as I, a Herald, am here. What a shame! Oh and I modified the Oathpact to apply to you since I am also now Honor. As cognitive shadows trapped cognitive shadows now Shard traps Shard. Take a seat Taravangian we are going to be here a while." 

The end state is Dalinar and Taravangian stuck together debating with each other endlessly. A call back to their last meeting in RoW where Dalinar says he hopes one day the two of them will sit together and talk again like they used to. 

On 4/29/2024 at 3:11 AM, Forts Board said:

I think the Child Champion theory is a good one, but also, logistically, I doubt Brandon will want to wait 1000 Rosharan years and get to Stormlight 6 and say, "Oh, here's Jasnah, still chillin out, just waiting for Odium to come back." 

I think other Shards will come to the system in the back 5 and it won't just be Odium vs. Honor/Cultivation. 

Edited May 2 by Child of Hodor

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

On 4/29/2024 at 1:11 AM, Forts Board said:

logistically, I doubt Brandon will want to wait 1000 Rosharan years and get to Stormlight 6 and say, "Oh, here's Jasnah, still chillin out, just waiting for Odium to come back.

One thing I will say, SA book 6 is only supposed to be a decade or couple of decades in the future after SA book 5 per WoB. Originally he said 10-15 years, now he's more cagey on it, but says that Mistborn Era 2 (Wax/Wayne) takes place post Stormlight 5, but he isn't sure if Bands of Mourning is before or after Stormlight 6. Though in 2021 he did say that all Wax/Wayne take place in the 10 year gap between SA 5 & 6 (LINK)

He also said recently at C2E2 that Renarin will be a big part of books 6-10 so they can't happen that far in the future. 

[Master Silver]

On 4/29/2024 at 1:11 AM, Forts Board said:

Fellow Sharders, 

It appears strongly that Odium shall win the Contest of Champions. I think the Child Champion theory is a good one, but also, logistically, I doubt Brandon will want to wait 1000 Rosharan years and get to Stormlight 6 and say, "Oh, here's Jasnah, still chillin out, just waiting for Odium to come back." 

So what happens to Dalinar when (if, I suppose) he loses?

I, for one have two ideas, which I'm sure have been brought up before. One is that Dalinar will sacrifice himself so that Odium cannot use him. I would definitely prefer this to Dalinar leading Rosharan forces against Scadrial, enslaved to Odium. 

The other possibility is that TOdium might show mercy on Dalinar, and not enslave his soul. That one is a long shot, but since Taravangian and Dalinar really do like each other, I think it may be a possibility. 

Wow, that post sounds super formal! Do you guys have any thoughts?

I think Taravangian would love the double win so to speak. Like, I beat you as Odium, so you fail. BUT I already beat Odium so I win. I always knew I was better than you. Now release me so I can save them all. 

[Child of tanavast]

So we know dalinar is the one to unite but who will he unite honor and kal will hold it as in my opinion kaladin will be honor as all of he is ideals lead to it and the storm father call him alone child of Tanavast 

Ex I will protect those who cannot protect them self the “honorable thing to do”

Ex2 I’ll protect those I hate so long as it is right “be honorable to those whom did you wrong” forgiving them 

Ex3 there are those I can’t protect “that even in the worst you must be honorable”

So all of his ideals are teaching him to be the perfect shard of honor to and to this as well we’ve never seen kaladin and Dalinar do the cool things that Dali are and shallon do

[+hwiles]

20 minutes ago, Child of tanavast said:

So we know dalinar is the one to unite but who will he unite honor and kal will hold it as in my opinion kaladin will be honor as all of he is ideals lead to it and the storm father call him alone child of Tanavast 

Ex I will protect those who cannot protect them self the “honorable thing to do”

Ex2 I’ll protect those I hate so long as it is right “be honorable to those whom did you wrong” forgiving them 

Ex3 there are those I can’t protect “that even in the worst you must be honorable”

So all of his ideals are teaching him to be the perfect shard of honor to and to this as well we’ve never seen kaladin and Dalinar do the cool things that Dali are and shallon do

Welcome to the Shard!

Let's not discount the possibility that Odium could be killed again or simply recombined with Honor. Taravangian and Kaladin might not be able to hold both and survive, but I bet Szeth could. His Honor: unbreakable to a suicidal fault. His Hatred: enough to vow to kill his own people in order to free them from their own lies.

Plus, he doesn't actually want anything in particular except absolute truth. Szeth would make a brilliant Shard of War.  lol

[Argenti]

13 hours ago, hwiles said:

Welcome to the Shard!

Let's not discount the possibility that Odium could be killed again or simply recombined with Honor. Taravangian and Kaladin might not be able to hold both and survive, but I bet Szeth could. His Honor: unbreakable to a suicidal fault. His Hatred: enough to vow to kill his own people in order to free them from their own lies.

Plus, he doesn't actually want anything in particular except absolute truth. Szeth would make a brilliant Shard of War.  lol

The Double Shard is unlikely, as it's kinda a cop-out. Way to simple.
Mistborn

Spoiler

He's done it once already, unlikely to do it again.

 

[+Child of Hodor]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:25 AM, Argenti said:

The Double Shard is unlikely, as it's kinda a cop-out. Way to simple.
 

 

*Arcade game announcer voice* TRRRIPPLE SHARD!!!

Or what if Odium gets torn apart and both Honor and Cultivation merge with a piece? Dalinar is highly connected to Odium and Cultivation took a piece of Dalinar so she has some Connection to Odium. Ascending to a part of a splintered Shard may or may not be a thing that can happen. It would really shake things up for the back half.