Condensing Terris Bloodlines

[Trusk'our he/him]

In BoM, the Kandra VenDell mentioned that the Terris elite were doing their best to condense their bloodlines in the attempt to restore the power of Feruchemy, which could supposedly bring back Full Feruchemists.

My question is, does this even sound possible? Can you condense the genetic code of a specific "watered-down" lineage over time to eventually restore it, effectively increasing the DNA percentage of lost bloodline in the new generation? I might be thinking about this the wrong way (if so, please correct me), but wouldn't the child of two half Terris still be only half Terris genetically?

And, even if it were possible to condense the bloodlines to restore Full Feruchemists, wouldn't that cause inbreeding?

Now, I know we're not talking about physical DNA, but spiritual DNA, which works by different rules, but there have to be some similarities between the two, and we only have real knowledge on physical DNA to work with.

I did try to Google this question first so as to not waste any of your time, but I couldn't find an answer to my question, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Brandon has once said in a WOB that metalborn parents were having children stronger than themselves, but it's less that they're becoming stronger and more that the drop in potency has reached an equilibrium, the drop in potency over generations has about stoppedand won't get weaker.

I assume that the Terris are trying to do something similar to the Set, by having bloodlines that are the closest descendants to full Feruchemists to raise the likelyhood of another full feruchemist being born.

It's not making the kids being born more powerful per say, it's just raising the chances of winning the feruchemy lottery.

[Returned he/him]

The short answer is yes you can, and no it doesn't (necessarily) increase the risk of inbreeding.

What's happening, based on how closely Sanderson has been hewing to "realistic" heritable traits, is that the "magic" gene among Feruchemists has become so rare that it doesn't manifest very often: you get Ferrings, at most, and even then only rarely. "Condensing bloodlines" means encouraging people who are Ferrings, or who have very close relatives that are Ferrings, to reproduce together so that whatever "magic" gene is responsible for Feruchemy becomes more commonly represented in that family line: it's present in more people, who can then reproduce further and spread that gene to more people, who can then do the same, and on and on. The idea is that once the Feruchemy is more commonly represented among the Terris there will be more Ferrings available for future matchmaking, and more magical Ferrings (however they would determine that; my presumption is that they would just be hoping) would ultimately be produced. When the magic gene is more commonly represented they can continue to select for it, leading to (they hope) stronger expressions of Feruchemy, even possibly a full Feruchemist.

We don't have great real-world analogues for magic genes, but at its core it's basic husbandry. If you want a smaller dog, or a stronger horse, you find individuals that have more of those traits than others and selectively breed them. As long as the trait you want is heritable you get a better chance of offspring with those same traits, or even stronger expressions of those traits. Go on long enough and you can wind up with an entire subspecies, like breeds of dog, which breed true.

Whether or not you're at risk of inbreeding is mainly a product of how many individuals you're involving in the process. With more individuals you can't necessarily keep selecting for the trait in a straight line (you might need to mix in other genetic lines to avoid dangers from inbreeding), but you can continue to expand the incidence of the genes that produce the trait you want. And when you have enough genetic diversity you can go back to breeding for your desired traits. 

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

In BoM, the Kandra VenDell mentioned that the Terris elite were doing their best to condense their bloodlines in the attempt to restore the power of Feruchemy, which could supposedly bring back Full Feruchemists.

My question is, does this even sound possible? Can you condense the genetic code of a specific "watered-down" lineage over time to eventually restore it, effectively increasing the DNA percentage of lost bloodline in the new generation? I might be thinking about this the wrong way (if so, please correct me), but wouldn't the child of two half Terris still be only half Terris genetically?

And, even if it were possible to condense the bloodlines to restore Full Feruchemists, wouldn't that cause inbreeding?

Now, I know we're not talking about physical DNA, but spiritual DNA, which works by different rules, but there have to be some similarities between the two, and we only have real knowledge on physical DNA to work with.

I did try to Google this question first so as to not waste any of your time, but I couldn't find an answer to my question, so I thought I'd bring it up here.

Dominant and recessive genes. It's been a while since I've learnt this, but this seems to be fully possible. Two Feruchemist have greater chances of having a child that is also a Feruchemist (or have strong Feruchemical genes that can be pass down another generation), than a Feruchmist parent with a non-Feruchemist parent - we've already seen Set doing this to Allomancers successfully with their prisoners under Bilming. 

Inbreeding won't be a problem. There are thousands of Feruchemist, potentially millions of Terris people out there. To prevent negative effects of inbreeding for future generations you need like 100-300 different people as your starting group. Then can easily mix together and avoid inbreeding.

Brandon said that there are 3 different sets of DNA: physical, cognitive and spiritual - I think for now we can assume that they all work more or less in the same way.

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

In order to use magic from one world on another world, do they need a bit of [the first world's] Shard with you?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It helps a lot. But there are other ways to do it. What's going on in the Cosmere is people have 3 sets of DNA. They have Physical DNA, Spiritual DNA, and Cognitive DNA. Their Spiritual DNA is what encodes the magic system into them, their Investiture. So if you can find a way to rewrite your Spiritual DNA, you can do all kinds of funky things. That's what Hemalurgy does. It rips off a piece of someone else's soul, staples it to yours. So if you went with a Hemalurgic spike to the right place, ripped off a piece of someone's soul and stapled it to yourself, you could create short circuits that will let you do all kinds of goofy stuff.

Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

 

Edited March 9, 2024 by alder24

[Returned he/him]

I wonder if Sanderson will ever give fuller detail around the heritable components of his magic. I think that he might not, since it would be complicated, not really add to the stories, is subject to divine action, and may not apply outside of Scadrial anyways. A lot of traits are really complicated, involving many genes and environmental factors, and are hard to select for through breeding alone, especially in animals that have complex contexts for expressing (or even evaluating) those traits and for reproducing.

The famous example is that it's hard to promote intelligence (however you want to define that) in humans. Two geniuses aren't all that likely to produce a similarly remarkable child, two above-average people can produce a child of average (or less) intelligence as easily as an above-average one, etc. Intelligence, even if you go to the trouble of defining it carefully, is just a description of a really complicated outcome in a way that simpler traits, like eye color, are not.

On the other hand, I've read about raccoon populations near cities becoming more intelligent over generations as efforts to keep them out of food sources (like garbage cans) advance while limiting their more natural food options, providing a strong selection pressure favoring individuals that can overcome the obstacles humans devise. The difficulty in producing more Metalborn makes the trait seem like a more complex one, genetically, as demonstrated by noble lineage and matchmaking or Straff's efforts with his mistresses. But breeding alone doesn't seem to have overcome the dilution of magical power among Scadrians, and there isn't any other factor to counter that (except, maybe, the Terris matchmaking approach).

I'm especially interested in the post-Catacendre situation. In the Final Empire we were still getting Mistborn, if infrequently, even a thousand years after the first were made via Lerasium (plus Rashek's children). But after the Catacendre, even though Spook was directly Mistborn-ified by Sazed, we don't know of any being born across a much shorter three hundred years. The feeling I get from era 2 dialogue is that Spook was the last known Mistborn in history. Unless Spook had no children (which could be the case) it's hard to believe that there wasn't even one more born even just from surviving lineages. Maybe Sazed fiddled with things to that end?

Edited March 9, 2024 by Returned

[Trusk'our he/him]

11 hours ago, Returned said:

The short answer is yes you can, and no it doesn't (necessarily) increase the risk of inbreeding.

What's happening, based on how closely Sanderson has been hewing to "realistic" heritable traits, is that the "magic" gene among Feruchemists has become so rare that it doesn't manifest very often: you get Ferrings, at most, and even then only rarely. "Condensing bloodlines" means encouraging people who are Ferrings, or who have very close relatives that are Ferrings, to reproduce together so that whatever "magic" gene is responsible for Feruchemy becomes more commonly represented in that family line: it's present in more people, who can then reproduce further and spread that gene to more people, who can then do the same, and on and on. The idea is that once the Feruchemy is more commonly represented among the Terris there will be more Ferrings available for future matchmaking, and more magical Ferrings (however they would determine that; my presumption is that they would just be hoping) would ultimately be produced. When the magic gene is more commonly represented they can continue to select for it, leading to (they hope) stronger expressions of Feruchemy, even possibly a full Feruchemist.

We don't have great real-world analogues for magic genes, but at its core it's basic husbandry. If you want a smaller dog, or a stronger horse, you find individuals that have more of those traits than others and selectively breed them. As long as the trait you want is heritable you get a better chance of offspring with those same traits, or even stronger expressions of those traits. Go on long enough and you can wind up with an entire subspecies, like breeds of dog, which breed true.

Whether or not you're at risk of inbreeding is mainly a product of how many individuals you're involving in the process. With more individuals you can't necessarily keep selecting for the trait in a straight line (you might need to mix in other genetic lines to avoid dangers from inbreeding), but you can continue to expand the incidence of the genes that produce the trait you want. And when you have enough genetic diversity you can go back to breeding for your desired traits. 

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Dominant and recessive genes. It's been a while since I've learnt this, but this seems to be fully possible. Two Feruchemist have greater chances of having a child that is also a Feruchemist (or have strong Feruchemical genes that can be pass down another generation), than a Feruchmist parent with a non-Feruchemist parent - we've already seen Set doing this to Allomancers successfully with their prisoners under Bilming. 

Inbreeding won't be a problem. There are thousands of Feruchemist, potentially millions of Terris people out there. To prevent negative effects of inbreeding for future generations you need like 100-300 different people as your starting group. Then can easily mix together and avoid inbreeding.

Brandon said that there are 3 different sets of DNA: physical, cognitive and spiritual - I think for now we can assume that they all work more or less in the same way.

  Hide contents

Questioner (paraphrased)

In order to use magic from one world on another world, do they need a bit of [the first world's] Shard with you?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It helps a lot. But there are other ways to do it. What's going on in the Cosmere is people have 3 sets of DNA. They have Physical DNA, Spiritual DNA, and Cognitive DNA. Their Spiritual DNA is what encodes the magic system into them, their Investiture. So if you can find a way to rewrite your Spiritual DNA, you can do all kinds of funky things. That's what Hemalurgy does. It rips off a piece of someone else's soul, staples it to yours. So if you went with a Hemalurgic spike to the right place, ripped off a piece of someone's soul and stapled it to yourself, you could create short circuits that will let you do all kinds of goofy stuff.

Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

 

11 hours ago, Returned said:

The short answer is yes you can, and no it doesn't (necessarily) increase the risk of inbreeding.

What's happening, based on how closely Sanderson has been hewing to "realistic" heritable traits, is that the "magic" gene among Feruchemists has become so rare that it doesn't manifest very often: you get Ferrings, at most, and even then only rarely. "Condensing bloodlines" means encouraging people who are Ferrings, or who have very close relatives that are Ferrings, to reproduce together so that whatever "magic" gene is responsible for Feruchemy becomes more commonly represented in that family line: it's present in more people, who can then reproduce further and spread that gene to more people, who can then do the same, and on and on. The idea is that once the Feruchemy is more commonly represented among the Terris there will be more Ferrings available for future matchmaking, and more magical Ferrings (however they would determine that; my presumption is that they would just be hoping) would ultimately be produced. When the magic gene is more commonly represented they can continue to select for it, leading to (they hope) stronger expressions of Feruchemy, even possibly a full Feruchemist.

We don't have great real-world analogues for magic genes, but at its core it's basic husbandry. If you want a smaller dog, or a stronger horse, you find individuals that have more of those traits than others and selectively breed them. As long as the trait you want is heritable you get a better chance of offspring with those same traits, or even stronger expressions of those traits. Go on long enough and you can wind up with an entire subspecies, like breeds of dog, which breed true.

Whether or not you're at risk of inbreeding is mainly a product of how many individuals you're involving in the process. With more individuals you can't necessarily keep selecting for the trait in a straight line (you might need to mix in other genetic lines to avoid dangers from inbreeding), but you can continue to expand the incidence of the genes that produce the trait you want. And when you have enough genetic diversity you can go back to breeding for your desired traits. 

Ah, okay. Thanks for the responses, this all makes a lot more sense to me now!

Clearly, it's been a while since I learned about genetics, as I had originally assumed that the Terris elite wanted to bring back a "pure" Feruchemical lineage- someone with only Terris genes- in order to restore Full Feruchemists. But it seems like that's just not necessary to restore Full Feruchemists.

[KSub]

I agree with what’s been said. Magic has a genetic component or at least an inherited component from parents. So  Ferrings having children with Ferrings, and those children who present as Ferrings continuing to have children with other Ferrings would increase the probability of that gene passing on. 
 

I would like to see if Brandon makes use of the eugenics aspect of it in the next series. It could make for a pretty dark setting, where the “true Terris” have become the ruling class. I’m not sure if there will be enough time between Wax and Wayne and the next books for this to happen but it would make for an interesting setting for a Discord story.

[LightRinger he/him]

Since Hemalurgy alters the Spiritual DNA, would a spiked person pass that Spiritual DNA on to their offspring without the soul damage of Hemalurgy? Like, if two people were spiked to have two Feruchemical powers each, would their child have the increased likelihood of being a Feruchemist without the Hemalurgical damage?

[alder24]

1 hour ago, LightRinger said:

Since Hemalurgy alters the Spiritual DNA, would a spiked person pass that Spiritual DNA on to their offspring without the soul damage of Hemalurgy? Like, if two people were spiked to have two Feruchemical powers each, would their child have the increased likelihood of being a Feruchemist without the Hemalurgical damage?

No, WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

I wondered if an Inquisitor had children, if they would inherit stronger Inquisitor abilities, or if they would just inherit the lesser lines from being a Seeker, for example?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. I don't think I've ever been asked this before... The way Hemalurgy works, if you're not aware, you are taking someone else's soul, and you are basically nailing it to your soul... That won't affect the children. So you will have the weaker lines.

They have tried that. Unfortunately.

Berlin signing (May 14, 2019)

 

[Duxredux he/him]

Not a biologist or geneticist, but I think it's slightly more complicated than simply condensing Feruchemical power as they also have to breed out Allomancy and not just by phenotype (or observed trait). Despite hundreds of years of the Terris breeding program, there were no Ferrings, only Full Feruchemists - and the breeding was done by Skaa due to the Steel Ministry's mandates to eliminate the risk of a Twinborn conceived which was the whole point of the program in the first place. After the Catacendre, we had our first Ferrings, who obviously weren't all Twinborn. The combination of Allomantic and Feruchemical heritage breaks the Feruchemical gene into the component powers even if the offspring never has Allomantic powers, and here's the thing - I don't know if that aspect of sDNA is identical to IRL DNA and that you'll get a full Feruchemist if you just separate the two again or if the magic has more long term consequences since it doesn't actually 100% follow the same heritable pattern as DNA (see WoBs below). Magic may conflict and flat out have residual effects that regular nucleic acids just won't have and I have no idea how long that residual effect will persist since apparently the level of Metalborn percentages somehow stabilized means that naturally breeding out Allomancy as the population expands won't happen.

Quote

Questioner

Your magic systems are very structured, and specific rules that dominate them. But are there any universal laws that apply to all of the magic systems in the cosmere together?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there's several of them. Basically, the most important one and relevant to people who enjoy real physics is that I consider something called Investiture to be a third state of matter and energy. So, instead of e=mc^2, we have a third thing, Investiture, in there. And you can change Investiture to matter or to energy. And so, because of that, that law that you can do this, is where we see a lot of the cosmere magics living.

We also have a kind of rule that beings all exist, everything exists on three different levels. The Physical, the Spiritual, and the Cognitive. And, like we have DNA for our Physical self, we also have Mental DNA and Spiritual DNA, and all three influence one another. For instance, you couldn't test an Allomancer's blood and find the Allomancy gene, because it is in a different set of their DNA. You just have three sets. You could compose a test that could test it on the Spiritual Realm, but you're gonna have to use a different branch of physics to do that and determine who was an Allomancer. And so they all work on this kind of fundamental rules of: your Identity, your Connection, and being part of your soul, and the magics working through those things.

So there's some fundamental rules about this, about changing forms from energy to matter, and you having this Identity, Investiture, and Connection stored in your Spiritual DNA that are really relevant to everything.

ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

Is spiritual DNA inherited the same as regular DNA?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Inherited similarly, but not 100% identically, to regular DNA.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

As for this:

9 hours ago, Returned said:

he feeling I get from era 2 dialogue is that Spook was the last known Mistborn in history. Unless Spook had no children (which could be the case) it's hard to believe that there wasn't even one more born even just from surviving lineages.

Spook absolutely had children - and a lot of them. The premise of AoL is that the Vanishers were specifically targeting and collecting women descended from The Lord Mistborn. In a horrible way to think of it from Spooks perspective, they selectively targeted his great*9(+-1)granddaughters to be used as breeding stock.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

11 hours ago, Returned said:

I'm especially interested in the post-Catacendre situation. In the Final Empire we were still getting Mistborn, if infrequently, even a thousand years after the first were made via Lerasium (plus Rashek's children). But after the Catacendre, even though Spook was directly Mistborn-ified by Sazed, we don't know of any being born across a much shorter three hundred years. The feeling I get from era 2 dialogue is that Spook was the last known Mistborn in history. Unless Spook had no children (which could be the case) it's hard to believe that there wasn't even one more born even just from surviving lineages. Maybe Sazed fiddled with things to that end?

I wouldn't be surprised if Ruin's rise eliminated a lot of the more powerful allomancer's including mistborn. Both passively, since they're gonna be more likely to end up in harms way if they're doing combat plus Ruin might have even been hunting down allomancers. Alternatively, it also might be that, the same way that the intermixing with feruchemical genes made eliminated misrborns in the same way it eliminated full feruchemists. (which sounds odd since mistings already occured naturally, but genetics can be weird even without getting magic involved). I agree that time alone isn't a good enough explanatory factor but there's a number of hings that could be going on.

As for spook though, as @Duxredux says, he absolutely did have kids and lots of them lol

[Returned he/him]

15 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Spook absolutely had children - and a lot of them. The premise of AoL is that the Vanishers were specifically targeting and collecting women descended from The Lord Mistborn. In a horrible way to think of it from Spooks perspective, they selectively targeted his great*9(+-1)granddaughters to be used as breeding stock.

Thank you, I'd forgotten that detail. In that case something must be fundamentally different about the heritability of Allomancy post-Catacendre. Spook was a full Mistborn, and only Mistings came from his line over 300 years? There don't even seem to be more of them than in the Final Empire. Either that or Mistborn became much more discreet than in Scadrial's past. At more than triple that time frame Allomancers were still producing Mistborn in Rashek's time, even with just one side of the family line having Allomancy in it anywhere near a given Allomancer (a la Vin).

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, Returned said:

Thank you, I'd forgotten that detail. In that case something must be fundamentally different about the heritability of Allomancy post-Catacendre. Spook was a full Mistborn, and only Mistings came from his line over 300 years? There don't even seem to be more of them than in the Final Empire. Either that or Mistborn became much more discreet than in Scadrial's past. At more than triple that time frame Allomancers were still producing Mistborn in Rashek's time, even with just one side of the family line having Allomancy in it anywhere near a given Allomancer (a la Vin).

The Allomancy granted by the Lerasium beads weakened over time as more generations passed, making Mistborn more and more rare.

Spook wasn't even a Lerasium-level Mistborn, so the reason no Mistborn are still around is almost certainly due to the drop in Allomantic potential over the centuries (WoB). 

[Elite01]

I wonder if any of the feruchemist spiritual abilities would help with this. In a weird way maybe someone who had stored identity could tap it to become "more" terris and then have a higher chance of having ferrings as children. I could also see a nicrosil ferring maybe being able to help with this because they can do stuff with investiture but we haven't seen much of what those abilities can do. 

[+robardin he/him]

39 minutes ago, Elite01 said:

I wonder if any of the feruchemist spiritual abilities would help with this. In a weird way maybe someone who had stored identity could tap it to become "more" terris and then have a higher chance of having ferrings as children. I could also see a nicrosil ferring maybe being able to help with this because they can do stuff with investiture but we haven't seen much of what those abilities can do. 

You touch on one interesting question we have no answer to: why is/was Feruchemy specifically linked with the Terrisfolk?

Was it a case of Feruchemists being clannish from way back, or other some kind of Act of Shard (or Hoid) to trigger it?

After all, before Rashek's Ascension and the first round of mistsnapping / lerasium beads causing Allomancy to arise more in the general population, Feruchemy was "even more common than Mistings" at the end of the Final Empire among the pre-Ascension Terrisfolk.

Is it due to some extra Connection, along with other things, at the time of a person's conception? Could be... But, Connection to what?

[Zrogezrg]

*** Not confirmed *** Feruchemy can be also be gained in another way, other than hereditary and hemalergy. Hoid somehow gained access to it in Era 1, while he is not spiked and from different planet.

On 3/11/2024 at 5:12 PM, robardin said:

You touch on one interesting question we have no answer to: why is/was Feruchemy specifically linked with the Terrisfolk?

Warbreaker content

Quote

This could be similar to how Royal Locks, there is genetic and social standing required to having access to the ability.  

Edited March 12, 2024 by Zrogezrg
spoiler and misinformation

[alder24]

39 minutes ago, Zrogezrg said:

Hoid somehow gained access to it in Era 1

He didn't. He tried to learn this in WoA. It is unconfirmed if he has access to Feruchemy, but he has access to Allomancy (he took the Lerasium bead from the Well, he used Allomancy on Roshar). He uses Fortune via a mechanism similar to Feruchemy.

Spoiler

Skaiiwalker (paraphrased)

Does Hoid use his Feruchemical abilities with the atium to see the future?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Ah ah ah, I haven't confirmed that Hoid had Feruchemical abilities.

Skaiiwalker (paraphrased)

You haven't?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

*grinning slyly* No, but most people think he has Allomancy.

Teen Author Boot Camp (April 11, 2015)

 

Spoiler

Xyrd (paraphrased)

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

Xyrd (paraphrased)

Is chromium involved in that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

 

Spoiler

yurisses

Can you tell us a little bit about what Hoid was up to in Terris in The Well of Ascension?

Brandon Sanderson

[...]

Peter Ahlstrom

After Hoid got the bead during the scene in Secret History, he went north to Terris to do research on possibly acquiring Feruchemy. While he’s there, all hell breaks loose, and he ends up embroiled in helping the Terris people.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

In Oathbringer we have an example of a different form of magic on Roshar, like when Hoid uses Breaths to perform...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Hoid has used both Breaths and Allomancy on screen in the Stormlight books.

[...]

Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018)

[Zrogezrg]

@alder24Yes, sorry for spreading bad information. Somehow I internalised that Hoid is tapping Fortune using Feruchemy.

However, it is not that he did not gained the ability, it is he tried and it is unknown whether he succeeded as per WoB you mentioned.

[+robardin he/him]

7 minutes ago, Zrogezrg said:

@alder24Yes, sorry for spreading bad information. Somehow I internalised that Hoid is tapping Fortune using Feruchemy.

However, it is not that he did not gained the ability, it is he tried and it is unknown whether he succeeded as per WoB you mentioned.

It's definitely a RAFO scenario, but the fact is, a Feruchemical chromiummind is the only Cosmere magic we've seen so far to explicitly work with Fortune.

I have to say, the "motto" of the Stonewards, "I will be there when needed", sounds pretty similar to what literally moves Hoid, who said to Dalinar after the latter gave him food for thought on the nature of unity in Ch. 67 of Words of Radiance:

Quote

Wit nodded, looking thoughtful. "I need to read that book of yours again, it seems. I wanted to warn you, however. I'll be leaving soon."

"Leave?" Dalinar said. "You only just arrived."

"I know. It's incredibly frustrating, I must admit. I have discovered a place that I must be, though to be honest I'm not exactly sure why I need to be there. This doesn't always work as well as I'd like it to."

I mean, on the face of it, how could a Stoneward promise to "be there when needed" if they weren't usually where they needed to be already, when needed?

[Duxredux he/him]

Just a reminder @robardin and @Zrogezrg, this is the Mistborn forum, not General Cosmere. Please edit your posts and place non-Scadrian topics in spoilers. 

Spoiler

14 hours ago, robardin said:

I mean, on the face of it, how could a Stoneward promise to "be there when needed" if they weren't usually where they needed to be already, when needed?

My answer is kind of smarmy... that's probably a Truthwatcher way of thinking about the problem requiring forecasting and not a Stoneward way of thinking. In a very real way a Stoneward's powerset is always in demand just about everywhere in the same way that there is always demand for construction crews and civil engineering. Cracked wall? Just needs a quick smooth over. Broken roof? Got you covered. Massive boulder blocking the road from the last Highstorm? No problem. Road too damaged for chull carts? Let's just level that out. Old man so-and-so is too old for a cane and needs a wheel chair - bam stairs into a ramp. City over populated? Let's raise a few buildings. Old buildings too unstable? Level them and make a playground. Need a new latrine pit dug? Easy.

For someone who can reshape civil infrastructure with incredibly accessible Stormlight, Stonewards could probably walk down any street in the major kingdoms and you can pretty much guarantee that someone will need them. They don't need fortune or to spend lots of time forecasting, simply being proactive and industrious will get the job done. Historically I'm sure the Oathgates make it easy for Stonewards to get to where they are needed as they can probably just follow the Highstorm and repair damages along the way (I mean, think what cyclones, hurricanes, and typhoons do regularly IRL). I'm American so I think in American examples, but they remind me of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that undertake some incredibly huge civil engineering projects and go around the world providing engineering aid. Sure, emergency management agencies would find forecasting disasters really convenient to better prepare, but getting there as fast as possible generally is good enough - particularly if as much infrastructure as possible is already in place to mitigate risk. During a Highstorm is not the time to be doing the work, after is just fine since it's also before the next one.