What would you chose

[Highprince10]

If you could have access to any two surges or to be any twinborn with one feruchemical power and one allomantic metal which would you choose (you can not be a compounder) I would choose Progression and Gravitation so I can help those who are sick and can fly to those who need help 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Surges pretty much dominate.  Does stormlight to use said surges still provide infinite healing? Or is this strictly surge power only?  

Lightweaving and division. Ultimate weapons system. 

[Highprince10]

I would say surges grant you slight healing so not supernaturally fast but you would be able to survive things others could not 

Spoiler

Like Kaladin before he knew he was a knights radiant 

 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Highprince10 said:

I would say surges grant you slight healing so not supernaturally fast but you would be able to survive things others could not 

  Hide contents

Like Kaladin before he knew he was a knights radiant 

 

With surges granting healing and durability and compounding being disallowed then this is pretty skewed towards surges. 

Unless all surges exist in the lower oaths range. I really think metallic arts get outshined at 2nd oath easy... in 99% of twinborn combos. 

Full mistborn or full feruchemy or a small portion of compounders can compete a bit longer but there are a few instakill surges at the 1st oath that just far outshine anything the metallic arts can replicate. 

Add in passive healing and I assume the seeming perfection that comes with stormlight and your surges are given an entire extra power. 

Literally all surge combos > twinborn (minus compounding)  

For daily life just to have I would probably change up and use twinborn combo though. A-pewter F-zinc (or F-iron) would just be the most convenient combo for day to day life imo. 

Especially now that it is nearly garden season... I could use pewter for so much. Iron would be great too for keeping me lighter on my feet as I move around the muddy yard prepping. With a new grading chore to fix drainage I would even say that tapping iron for weight would be a welcome help out pounding dirt flat. 

Although I guess soulcasting and regrowth would make that a breeze as well so maybe surges win there too. 

 

[Returned]

F-zinc and A-pewter for me as well, I think. F-zinc seems incredibly useful and not that bad to store, compared to other Feruchemical powers (I could just veg out watching cartoons or something). A-pewter is just so versatile for so many things since it grants strength, balance, dexterity, durability, and poise I think I'd be able to get a lot of value out of it all the time, leading it to beat out my other favorite Allomantic metal, brass. I wonder if A-pewter could make storing speed in F-steel more efficient or effective, even though it obviously wouldn't be compounding.

I also wouldn't mind F-steel since super-speed seems really useful and also not necessarily too bad to store, but I just think I'd get more out of F-zinc. Maybe if I actually did have F-zinc I'd receive a burst of inspiration that would tip the scales towards F-steel! I really wish we had a better sense of what the storage rate, storage density, and tapping efficiency of Feruchemical attributes are though. I think that a lot of my (and probably all 17th Shard members) preferences with respect to Feruchemy are based on rosy assumptions about those.

Edited February 15 by Returned

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

52 minutes ago, Returned said:

F-zinc and A-pewter for me as well, I think. F-zinc seems incredibly useful and not that bad to store, compared to other Feruchemical powers (I could just veg out watching cartoons or something). A-pewter is just so versatile for so many things since it grants strength, balance, dexterity, durability, and poise I think I'd be able to get a lot of value out of it all the time, leading it to beat out my other favorite Allomantic metal, brass. I wonder if A-pewter could make storing speed in F-steel more efficient or effective, even though it obviously wouldn't be compounding.

I also wouldn't mind F-steel since super-speed seems really useful and also not necessarily too bad to store, but I just think I'd get more out of F-zinc. Maybe if I actually did have F-zinc I'd receive a burst of inspiration that would tip the scales towards F-steel! I really wish we had a better sense of what the storage rate, storage density, and tapping efficiency of Feruchemical attributes though. I think that a lot of my (and probably all 17th Shard members) preferences with respect to Feruchemy are based on rosy assumptions about those.

I definately think burning pewter would help you store speed a bit easier. The biggest issue storing speed in my opinion is the opposite of bullet time. The world itself would seem faster. If pewter speeds up your reaction time enough it wouldn't matter much. 

More than all of that though the synergy from F steel and A pewter double dips in that while tapping steel you burn your metals faster thus gaining more benefit from them. 

If you have enough pewter to burn for 5 minutes you get double strength for that 5 minutes.  If you tap steel at 200% normal speed then your pewter will burn away in 2.5 minutes and you will gain a nice triple strength for that time.  If flaring pewter lasts for 30 seconds and gives you triple strength then wouldn't flaring on 200% normal speed give you 15 seconds at 4.5x normal strength?  

More importantly this synergy would work for the toughness associated with pewter as well. Vin popped a thugs head with duralumin and you could theoretically duplicate the effects if you tapped enough speed. 

Thinking about Marasi and the bands... she was able to tap 38x normal speed to break the sound barrier.  Your 5 minutes of pewter could be burnt off in about 8 seconds at a hearty 3900% normal strength no?  

 

[Trusk'our]

9 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I definately think burning pewter would help you store speed a bit easier. The biggest issue storing speed in my opinion is the opposite of bullet time. The world itself would seem faster. If pewter speeds up your reaction time enough it wouldn't matter much. 

More than all of that though the synergy from F steel and A pewter double dips in that while tapping steel you burn your metals faster thus gaining more benefit from them. 

If you have enough pewter to burn for 5 minutes you get double strength for that 5 minutes.  If you tap steel at 200% normal speed then your pewter will burn away in 2.5 minutes and you will gain a nice triple strength for that time.  If flaring pewter lasts for 30 seconds and gives you triple strength then wouldn't flaring on 200% normal speed give you 15 seconds at 4.5x normal strength?  

More importantly this synergy would work for the toughness associated with pewter as well. Vin popped a thugs head with duralumin and you could theoretically duplicate the effects if you tapped enough speed. 

Thinking about Marasi and the bands... she was able to tap 38x normal speed to break the sound barrier.  Your 5 minutes of pewter could be burnt off in about 8 seconds at a hearty 3900% normal strength no?  

 

Honestly, if you're looking for pure combat ability, this is one of the best power combos to do so.

I would argue that a decently prepped A-pewter/F-steel Twinborn would be more dangerous than most Surgebinders.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Honestly, if you're looking for pure combat ability, this is one of the best power combos to do so.

I would argue that a decently prepped A-pewter/F-steel Twinborn would be more dangerous than most Surgebinders.

In before lasers and perma cc or soulcasting bodies to dust. 

The fields of forever prepped liquid quicksand.  Or the spren who perma hover around kaladin waiting to glue his enemies to the ground. 

For real though. I think you are right. Vin and kelsier carried enough pewter to sprint for hours upon hours. Even if you cut that down by 37 times to move the speed of sound you would still be in a solid position to headbutt everyone to death in a fraction of a second. 

[Trusk'our]

31 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

In before lasers and perma cc or soulcasting bodies to dust. 

The fields of forever prepped liquid quicksand.  Or the spren who perma hover around kaladin waiting to glue his enemies to the ground. 

I don't really want to turn this into a vs. thread, but honestly, being able to have 5 - 10 times your normal strength while moving 3 - 5 times faster than normal could probably deal more damage that those Surges. Even directly against a Radiant, I'd say this Twinborn has the upper hand unless the Radiant is 4th or 5th Oath.

34 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

For real though. I think you are right. Vin and kelsier carried enough pewter to sprint for hours upon hours. Even if you cut that down by 37 times to move the speed of sound you would still be in a solid position to headbutt everyone to death in a fraction of a second. 

Yeah, if you're prepped correctly for this power set, running out of metal isn't really an issue.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

I don't really want to turn this into a vs. thread, but honestly, being able to have 5 - 10 times your normal strength while moving 3 - 5 times faster than normal could probably deal more damage that those Surges. Even directly against a Radiant, I'd say this Twinborn has the upper hand unless the Radiant is 4th or 5th Oath.

Yeah, if you're prepped correctly for this power set, running out of metal isn't really an issue.

So if you had enough pewter to burn for the same sprint Vin and Kel did you would still have nearly 20 minutes of burn time... just your pewter allomancy would be 37x stronger. 

Granted moving the speed of sound even with how full the bands were was only possible for a few seconds. So probably not quite as broken. But a stomach full of pewter could certainly be used for hours and hours at 2 or 3x effectiveness pretty viably in my opinion.  

Take that and allow the allomancer to be lerasium strength in pewter or a savant... 

I guess this would likely push a user of any metal onto savantism faster as well though.  High risk high reward. 

[Highprince10]

 

16 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

With surges granting healing and durability and compounding being disallowed then this is pretty skewed towards surges. 

 

I don't think surges have that much over twin born because pewter allomancy or gold feruchemy are equal and almost certainly better then the endurance of stormlight  and there are far more combinations of twinborn then surges 

[alder24]

19 hours ago, Highprince10 said:

If you could have access to any two surges or to be any twinborn with one feruchemical power and one allomantic metal which would you choose (you can not be a compounder) I would choose Progression and Gravitation so I can help those who are sick and can fly to those who need help 

26 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

I don't think surges have that much over twin born because pewter allomancy or gold feruchemy are equal and almost certainly better then the endurance of stormlight  and there are far more combinations of twinborn then surges 

No. Surgebinding is much, much better than Metallic Arts, because of its fuel. To equal Stormlight to Metallic Arts you would have to look at Vin at the beginning of her Ascension or look at TLM usage of pure Dor - that's the power you need to equal Stormlight, which is not available for normal people. A normal Twinborn powered by metals is unable to reach that level of power comparable to what Stormlight provides. Scadrial is a low investiture world, while Roshar is high - burning metals and using Feruchemy moves relatively little investiture compared to what is happening in Surgebinding. Just holding Stormlight provides as much or even more power as A-pewter or F-gold gives you, and that's without using any Surges. This choice is like choosing between a toothpick or a sword.

Spoiler

Trae Cooper (paraphrased)

Why are Invested objects like metalminds and Hemalurgic spikes able to be Pushed and Pulled on, but Shardblades and Shardplate, which are also invested, are not susceptible to Pushing and Pulling?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There were a few concepts that he outlined in answering this question.

1.) The ability to Push/Pull an Invested object is predicated to the amount/power of the Investiture.

2.) Further, Invested objects also gain resistance to pulling/pushing based on proximity to soul possibly via the soul. An example given is that a Hemalurgic spike touches the blood of the person, and from there is now part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm. This provides what Brandon termed a kind of "soul interference," based on its proximity to the soul.

This further explains why Vin required more than normal power to Push/Pull the metalminds from the Lord Ruler, because of their proximity to his soul, via the Spiritual Realm.

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

Brandon said that theoretically you can Push/Pull Shardblades and Shardplates but you would need to wield an incredible amount of power. One example he gave that could so such as a thing is that if you were a Mistborn wielding the full power of the Well of Ascension, you could Push/Pull Shardblades/Plate.

DragonCon 2012 (Sept. 4, 2012)

 

Spoiler

tskyeguye

From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects?

Brandon Sanderson

The latter.

Skrimyt

Interesting. So are actively Surgebinding Radiants or metal-burning Allomancers just not Invested enough to gain those passive effects, or do they not experience perfect pitch/color/etc. because their Investiture is just not as tightly bound to their Spiritweb as Endowment's Breaths or a Dawnshard would be?

Brandon Sanderson

Be aware that the two groups you mention don't generally hold much Investiture themselves, at least not in large quantities over time. More in Surgebinding. Almost none in Allomancy.

But RAFO to specifics.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

[Highprince10]

Spoiler

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

3.) The amount of Investiture is relatively low on Scadrial, whereas worlds like Sel and Roshar are pushing around "high power" according to Brandon. I interpreted this to mean that Hemalurgic spikes and metalminds have low amounts of Investiture compared to Shardplate and Shardblades.

 

 

I didn't realize the difference in investiture and how much more there was on Roshar. Good point on how much power stormlight gives you. Even then I feel like almost all of the surges are obvious if you use them where as feruchemy and allomancy can be more subtle and easier to hide but yes in general I think Surges is sheer power have an edge over twinborn. 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

44 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I didn't realize the difference in investiture and how much more there was on Roshar. Good point on how much power stormlight gives you. Even then I feel like almost all of the surges are obvious if you use them where as feruchemy and allomancy can be more subtle and easier to hide but yes in general I think Surges is sheer power have an edge over twinborn. 

That is the downside. I don't agree with @alder24 that stormlight is the same as pewter and gold at its base.  Its a lot different and I they all have their pluses and minuses. But to put them up against eachother would be impossible.  Brandon writes his fight scenes to be cool and fun and then he adds in the required amount of investiture afterwords. 

Pewter outshines stormlight in everyway except healing.  Sadly because stormlight healing is infinite so long as stormlight is available it becomes more powerful than gold compounding at later oaths.  

It doesn't much matter if pewter outscales stormlight in every physical way possible as long as pewter is susceptible to taking damage and stormlight can heal back a pile of mush so long as it exists near the radiant. 

Even gold suffers from needing to touch a metalmind to heal. Radiants don't even have to be able to breath. So long as the spiritual aspect of that pile of meat soup laying on the ground is near stormlight it will start to heal. 

Which is why A atium and Steel compounding are so often omitted from these sorts of discussions... because while healing from goo is allowable being able to dance around the future and moving faster than reaction is possible should not.  

Without the passive benefits of stormlight I do think the surges offer too little, or too focused power for me to care as much about them. 

Every book from Scadrial shows new innovative ways to use the magic. I just don't get that from Roshar and I genuinely think it is because that system is so heavily invested and front loaded. 

[Trusk'our]

5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

That is the downside. I don't agree with @alder24 that stormlight is the same as pewter and gold at its base.  Its a lot different and I they all have their pluses and minuses. But to put them up against eachother would be impossible.  Brandon writes his fight scenes to be cool and fun and then he adds in the required amount of investiture afterwords. 

Yeah, A-pewter and breathing Stormlight aren't the same; pewter seems to last longer, adds more strength, and balance.

5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Pewter outshines stormlight in everyway except healing.  Sadly because stormlight healing is infinite so long as stormlight is available it becomes more powerful than gold compounding at later oaths.  

It doesn't much matter if pewter outscales stormlight in every physical way possible as long as pewter is susceptible to taking damage and stormlight can heal back a pile of mush so long as it exists near the radiant.

Yup, that's the truth of it. A Pewterarm will always be at a disadvantage against a Radiant holding Stormlight unless they use some other magic to bolster themselves or cheat (which, really, should always be the go-to in a fight anyway ).

5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Which is why A atium and Steel compounding are so often omitted from these sorts of discussions... because while healing from goo is allowable being able to dance around the future and moving faster than reaction is possible should not.  

Well, to be fair, A-Atim is very, very hard to get ahold of on present Scadrial, and it Burns very quickly. 

Compounding isn't very common, it would seem; there have only ever been 3 recorded Crashers including Wax himself as of BoM. So a Compounder of a specific type is likely going to be just as rare unless you can crack Identity contamination when involving Hemalurgic spikes.

As for F-steel itself. . . yeah, that one has no reason to be omitted when speaking about Feruchemy or Hemalurgy, and even without Compounding its pretty busted from what I can tell.

5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Without the passive benefits of stormlight I do think the surges offer too little, or too focused power for me to care as much about them. 

I wouldn't necessarily go that far; I think there may be some really interesting ways to use those powers, we just haven't seen a whole lot of them yet.

Perhaps someday I'll do a thread on that. . .

5 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Every book from Scadrial shows new innovative ways to use the magic. I just don't get that from Roshar and I genuinely think it is because that system is so heavily invested and front loaded. 

Limitations do typically invite greater creativity. Plus, Scadrial has had much, much longer to master the use of their magics as opposed to most Rosharan magic users (Fused are weird because they seem to forget half of what they know- propably due to, you know, madness- and Heralds are just as broken, preventing them from really using or sharing their knowledge).

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

No. Surgebinding is much, much better than Metallic Arts, because of its fuel. To equal Stormlight to Metallic Arts you would have to look at Vin at the beginning of her Ascension or look at TLM usage of pure Dor - that's the power you need to equal Stormlight, which is not available for normal people. A normal Twinborn powered by metals is unable to reach that level of power comparable to what Stormlight provides. Scadrial is a low investiture world, while Roshar is high - burning metals and using Feruchemy moves relatively little investiture compared to what is happening in Surgebinding. Just holding Stormlight provides as much or even more power as A-pewter or F-gold gives you, and that's without using any Surges. This choice is like choosing between a toothpick or a sword.

While I do know that Rosharan Surgebinders almost always hold more Investiture than Scadrien Metalborn, I think that this is a bit of an overstatement; we've seen Mistborn and Twinborn do absolutely devastating damage to armies before, allowing them to destroy hundreds of their opponents singlehandedly.

Also, Purified Dor liquid Investiture, which is considered to be its most potent form. Stormlight is gaseous, not liquid. As such, comparing the Purified Dor to Surgebinders seems like a bold leap to me.

Spoiler

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e6072

Kaimipono

Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies?

Brandon Sanderson

The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms.

Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.)

So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that while Rosharan Surgebinding has a leg up in terms of raw Investiture to the Metallic Arts, I have strong reason believe it isn't as large as you suggest.

One final note I'd like to make, the Metallic Arts seem to be much, much easier to scale up or mass produce; while there are only ten Honorblades, there can be many, many Unsealed Metalmind medallions that can be made. What's more, Hemalurgic spikes along with Identity fiddling, Allomantic duralumin, Feruchemical nicrosil, and Compounding allow for a great deal of power.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Scadrial someday is able to create super soldiers that can overpower any Surgebinder that isn't directly fueled by the Shard of Honor itself, simply due to the nature of the two planets' magic systems and the upgrades they allow.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

One final note I'd like to make, the Metallic Arts seem to be much, much easier to scale up or mass produce; while there are only ten Honorblades, there can be many, many Unsealed Metalmind medallions that can be made. What's more, Hemalurgic spikes along with Identity fiddling, Allomantic duralumin, Feruchemical nicrosil, and Compounding allow for a great deal of power.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Scadrial someday is able to create super soldiers that can overpower any Surgebinder that isn't directly fueled by the Shard of Honor itself, simply due to the nature of the two planets' magic systems and the upgrades they allow.

I am cautious about speculating over the magitech. We know that Roshar will evolve their tech around their magic where the magitech of Scadrial takes a back seat to more conventional technology. 

That said we have seen a certain radiant carry around a fabrial of a surge he is not meant to have. What happens when your radiants can carry around fabrials to grant access to all of the other surges?  

 

[Trusk'our]

2 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I am cautious about speculating over the magitech. We know that Roshar will evolve their tech around their magic where the magitech of Scadrial takes a back seat to more conventional technology. 

True, the Fabrial tech in RoW shows that they do have some pretty neat things up their sleeve.

I would still argue that the Metallic Art's powers are easier to mass produce and augment, however.

2 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

That said we have seen a certain radiant carry around a fabrial of a surge he is not meant to have. What happens when your radiants can carry around fabrials to grant access to all of the other surges?  

Aren't those supposed to be physical manifestations of Spren? Most likely Radiant Spren, I would think, which would severely limit the number of them you could make.

Edited February 10 by Trusk'our

[Highprince10]

On 2/9/2024 at 4:32 PM, Trusk'our said:

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Scadrial someday is able to create super soldiers that can overpower any Surgebinder that isn't directly fueled by the Shard of Honor itself, simply due to the nature of the two planets' magic systems and the upgrades they allow.

I don't think Scadrians will ever really be able to take out multiple knights radiant from different orders because any Elsecaller or Lightweaver might be able to transform the soldiers but since investiture resists investiture Elsecallers could just change the air around the soldiers to stone. But the fact Scadrians can give anybody 2 feruchemical ablities and Rosharens are just learning how fabrials work Scadrians probably have a advantage in a war. 

[Iron-Eyes]

Yeah, also the fact that they have guns.

[Returned]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:08 AM, Highprince10 said:

I don't think Scadrians will ever really be able to take out multiple knights radiant from different orders because any Elsecaller or Lightweaver might be able to transform the soldiers but since investiture resists investiture Elsecallers could just change the air around the soldiers to stone. But the fact Scadrians can give anybody 2 feruchemical ablities and Rosharens are just learning how fabrials work Scadrians probably have a advantage in a war. 

I think that Leechers and Nicrobursts are going to be a pretty big problem for Rosharans in any conflict with Scadrians. Radiants need a good amount of accessible Investiture to execute their most impressive feats, and their biggest advantage (near immortality) falls apart without the same. Allomancers who can negate Radiants' Investiture, and especially drain their stores, represent a pretty extreme risk to deploying Radiants. Not to mention that Allomantic grenades and Hemalurgic spikes make such powers easy to scale up and widely distribute for an army while high-Oath Radiants are really, really hard to replace.

Radiants are more versatile and near deific in their powers but Scadrians are going to have numbers and materiel that Rosharans will be hard-pressed to deal with.

[Highprince10]

19 hours ago, Iron-Eyes said:

Yeah, also the fact that they have guns.

I don't think Guns will make a big difference if Scadrians are only facing Radients and we know Shardplate is pretty resistant to bullets but shooting someone who can heal almost instantly won't help much especially if the Radients are part of the later oaths . 

[Colors]

I think I'll be contrary here. In my real life I think I'd go with Twinborn, A-Pewter and F-Zinc.

The real world applications for these I think are just more useful than 99% of what you can do with surges. Yes, being able to fly or negate friction, or cause stuff to breakdown would be cool but not as applicable in my life and those powers would be far more gaudy and harder to hide. 

The only surges that I'd contemplate over A-Pewter and F-Steel would be Progression and Transformation. Healing and soulcasting would undoubtedly be very useful in real life.

Now, if we are talking me living in the Cosmere and I get a spren as part of the Surges I get then I'd take the surges every time. 

On 2/15/2024 at 11:15 AM, Returned said:

I think that Leechers and Nicrobursts are going to be a pretty big problem for Rosharans in any conflict with Scadrians. Radiants need a good amount of accessible Investiture to execute their most impressive feats, and their biggest advantage (near immortality) falls apart without the same. Allomancers who can negate Radiants' Investiture, and especially drain their stores, represent a pretty extreme risk to deploying Radiants. Not to mention that Allomantic grenades and Hemalurgic spikes make such powers easy to scale up and widely distribute for an army while high-Oath Radiants are really, really hard to replace.

Radiants are more versatile and near deific in their powers but Scadrians are going to have numbers and materiel that Rosharans will be hard-pressed to deal with.

Yeah, Leechers with F-Steel would be a pretty deadly counter for surgebinders, as would be Allomantic grenades improved to essentially be bombs capable of instantly Leeching investiture from wide areas. 

Edited February 22 by Colors

[Highprince10]

5 minutes ago, Colors said:

I think I'll be contrary here. In my real life I think I'd go with Twinborn, A-Pewter and F-Zinc.

 

It think for everyday life I would probably want to A-Brass and F-Zinc  soothing or rioting would be more powerful then most people probably think because no one would know you were doing it and you could win over people or make people trust you. A-pewter is useful but I think Emotional Allomancy would be the most helpful in our world if there are no other mistings.

[Colors]

7 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

It think for everyday life I would probably want to A-Brass and F-Zinc  soothing or rioting would be more powerful then most people probably think because no one would know you were doing it and you could win over people or make people trust you. A-pewter is useful but I think Emotional Allomancy would be the most helpful in our world if there are no other mistings.

I have definitely contemplated soothing...I just like the across the board physical enhancements of pewter so much. They would help in everything, everyday. Soothing was my second choice for an allomantic choice. Soothing fascinates me, and would be highly useful in day to day life. 

Perhaps I like pewter because I'm a former athlete who misses my former glory days. 

Edited February 22 by Colors

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:46 AM, Highprince10 said:

I don't think Guns will make a big difference if Scadrians are only facing Radients and we know Shardplate is pretty resistant to bullets but shooting someone who can heal almost instantly won't help much especially if the Radients are part of the later oaths . 

I think modern weaponry would do really well against shardplate. 

Guns and Wax can already break plate via WOB. 

I get that that is with Wax as well and that is an important piece, but that is also with old ballistics. Fast forward to our day and a lot changes. 

Our powder is different now. Our actual bullets are different. Our capacity to carry rounds is better our delivery systems are capable of far greater rates of fire. 

A pewterarm would be strong enough to operate some seriously large weaponry and stay as mobile or more mobile than a typical soldier... and the tech will eventually evolve to where nearly every soldier can affordably be supplied with these things. 

Plus Scadrial is already intimately familure with Aluminum and all it takes is every 3rd round to be aluminum coated before you are mixing rounds that can eat through plate and rounds that can stop the ability to heal.  

6 minutes ago, Highprince10 said:

It think for everyday life I would probably want to A-Brass and F-Zinc  soothing or rioting would be more powerful then most people probably think because no one would know you were doing it and you could win over people or make people trust you. A-pewter is useful but I think Emotional Allomancy would be the most helpful in our world if there are no other mistings.

Soothing is a great choice for everyday. The only downside is that it comes with the stigma of manipulating people around you. Once one person finds out you've been doing it then you will never be trusted again. Breeze was easily my favorite character from era 1 and it always spooks me out to think of what Hollywood would do to his character just due to the fact that emotional manipulation is so morally gray.