Is Adolin a half-Stoneward-Edgedancer?

[Soulcaster05]

Not an expert in Cosmere/Connection stuff by any means, but something in RoW sparked curiosity:

In my opinion, Adolin is personally suited to Stonewards (team dynamics, being there for those who need them) and not so much Edgedancers (being there for the common folk). If Maya did not exist, he may have attracted a peakspren already? Also, I was just reading RoW for the second time and stumbled upon these 3 Adolin thoughts italicized in Chapter 35 as he fought the Tukari off with Maya alongside him, and Brandon's italicizing seems suspicious to me:

1. Never underestimate the strength of a soldier trained to stand fast.

2. Never underestimate the simple intimidating force of a man who won't back down.

3. Never underestimate the worth of being willing to hold. Your. GROUND.

Do these sound suspiciously like Oaths? I have noticed Brandon previously italicizing Oaths. Especially the first one which sounds very similar to what Coppermind thinks will be a Stoneward second Ideal!

Has Adolin already sworn his Stoneward Ideals, but no peakspren around obviously, but do you think Maya somehow accepted these (they can sense each other's thoughts/feelings) and

Spoiler

that was why she was able to finally speak at the honorspren inquest?

Some of her dead-eye-ness was cured by doing some funky Oath acceptance thing?

 

What decided that cultuvationspren would be Edgedancer spren and peakspren be Stoneward spren? Could  Maya and Adolin be making a cultivationspren Stoneward??? 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Soulcaster05

[Ookla]

This is a delightfully weird concept; take my like. 

[The Sibling]

6 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

1. Never underestimate the strength of a soldier trained to stand fast.

2. Never underestimate the simple intimidating force of a man who won't back down.

3. Never underestimate the worth of being willing to hold. Your. GROUND.

These don't seem like oaths to me, just because they're not in the same format as the other oaths. Also, they're all very similar so I guess that all together they would have to be one oath, which is kind of weird. 

This scene was really powerful. I found it one of the better fight scenes that Brandon has written, mostly because I don't really like fight scenes. I would totally be able to believe that there was something more going on in this scene, but I doubt that these specifically are oaths. Cool theory!

[alder24]

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

In my opinion, Adolin is personally suited to Stonewards (team dynamics, being there for those who need them) and not so much Edgedancers (being there for the common folk).

Not an Edgedancer? He took care of a prostitute in WoK, was chatting friendly with common soldiers, put his Shardhelmet on a boy's head, he jokes, makes friendly comments and befriends anyone, no matter their status. He shut himself in a prison cell to accompany Kaladin!!! He attends bar parties and weddings in the Tower, he takes care of Gallant, he takes care of Maya in OB and RoW, treating her like a wounded soldier and as a friend. He is the embodiment of Edgedancer's ideals. He remembers, listens and cares.

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

If Maya did not exist, he may have attracted a peakspren already? Also, I was just reading RoW for the second time and stumbled upon these 3 Adolin thoughts italicized in Chapter 35 as he fought the Tukari off with Maya alongside him, and Brandon's italicizing seems suspicious to me:

1. Never underestimate the strength of a soldier trained to stand fast.

2. Never underestimate the simple intimidating force of a man who won't back down.

3. Never underestimate the worth of being willing to hold. Your. GROUND.

True, he might fit Stonewards too, a person can fit multiple orders at once. But I doubt he would attract a spren already - or at least I don't want him to become Radiant.

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

Do these sound suspiciously like Oaths?

No.

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

I have noticed Brandon previously italicizing Oaths.

This also means thoughts and internal comments. RoW ch 21:

Quote

Maybe I murdered Sadeas, Adolin thought. But at least I never killed anyone innocent. At least I didn’t burn my own wife to death.
It’s about you again, Adolin thought. I can’t have an opinion or make choices—I’m only acting like this because of your influence.
As if I didn’t have enough burdens.

 

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

Especially the first one which sounds very similar to what Coppermind thinks will be a Stoneward second Ideal!

Oaths are about YOU. I will stand fast, I won't back down, I will hold my ground. "I" is the vital component of your Oaths. Except for the First Ideal and Lightweavers, there is no Oath that wasn't spoken in the first person: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Knights_Radiant/Immortal_Words

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

Has Adolin already sworn his Stoneward Ideals, but no peakspren around obviously, but do you think Maya somehow accepted these

No. Spren don't accept Words. Stormfather and Cultivation do that. 

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

that was why she was able to finally speak at the honorspren inquest?

Some of her dead-eye-ness was cured by doing some funky Oath acceptance thing?

Bond. There is a significant bond forming between Maya and Adolin. He is bringing her back, giving her his strength and even breath. I suspect they are forming a reverse Nahel Bond, where Adolin's soul is the one that fills cracks in Maya's soul, and Maya is the knight, gaining back her mind and body in the process. RoW ch 94:

Quote

Maya’s howls came to a crescendo of anguish, then she fell silent, gasping for breath. Weak. Too weak.
Take it, Adolin thought to her. Take some of my strength.
She looked right at him, and despite her scratched-out eyes, she saw him. Adolin felt something, a warmth deep within him. Maya drew in air, filling her lungs. Her expression livid as she gathered all of her strength, she prepared to shout again. Adolin braced himself for the screech. Her mouth opened.
And she spoke.
“We! CHOSE!”

 

8 hours ago, Soulcaster05 said:

What decided that cultuvationspren would be Edgedancer spren and peakspren be Stoneward spren?

Their nature. Spren, True Spren like Cultuvationspren, are the embodiment of Surges, Progression and Abrasion for Maya. They represent certain ideas and laws of nature, which Ishar formalized in the form of Knights Radiant and Oaths. This combination, of spren being the embodiment of Surges and Ishar's formalization, decided that Cultuvationspren are the Edgedancer spren. The Order of Edgedancers are artificial creation, spren are natural. Orders were made to represent the ideals which spren represent themselves.

[Elite01]

I agree that the odds of a cultivationspren being used to create a stoneward are next to zero but I always thought it would be interesting that if Adolin was our first two-order radiant, part Edgedancer and part Stoneward. I like that he is the regular no-powers character and don't want that to change but he is the best placed to be part of two orders in my opinion. Brandon has said in a WoB that you can be a part of two orders as long as both spren agree, you also have to juggle your oaths which can be difficult but you get access to multiple orders/surges. 

[Soulcaster05]

Ah, would be great if something like it was possible, but thanks all of you for your replies and clarifications! Anyway, looking forward to Adolin-Maya magic to evolve in exciting ways!!

[JohnnyKaizen]

On 12/5/2023 at 9:52 AM, alder24 said:

Not an Edgedancer? He took care of a prostitute in WoK, was chatting friendly with common soldiers, put his Shardhelmet on a boy's head, he jokes, makes friendly comments and befriends anyone, no matter their status. He shut himself in a prison cell to accompany Kaladin!!! He attends bar parties and weddings in the Tower, he takes care of Gallant, he takes care of Maya in OB and RoW, treating her like a wounded soldier and as a friend. He is the embodiment of Edgedancer's ideals. He remembers, listens and cares.

True, he might fit Stonewards too, a person can fit multiple orders at once. But I doubt he would attract a spren already - or at least I don't want him to become Radiant.

No.

This also means thoughts and internal comments. RoW ch 21:

 

Oaths are about YOU. I will stand fast, I won't back down, I will hold my ground. "I" is the vital component of your Oaths. Except for the First Ideal and Lightweavers, there is no Oath that wasn't spoken in the first person: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Knights_Radiant/Immortal_Words

No. Spren don't accept Words. Stormfather and Cultivation do that. 

Bond. There is a significant bond forming between Maya and Adolin. He is bringing her back, giving her his strength and even breath. I suspect they are forming a reverse Nahel Bond, where Adolin's soul is the one that fills cracks in Maya's soul, and Maya is the knight, gaining back her mind and body in the process. RoW ch 94:

 

Their nature. Spren, True Spren like Cultuvationspren, are the embodiment of Surges, Progression and Abrasion for Maya. They represent certain ideas and laws of nature, which Ishar formalized in the form of Knights Radiant and Oaths. This combination, of spren being the embodiment of Surges and Ishar's formalization, decided that Cultuvationspren are the Edgedancer spren. The Order of Edgedancers are artificial creation, spren are natural. Orders were made to represent the ideals which spren represent themselves.

All of the Kholins are Radiants, except Adolin. Clearly Sanderson has a specific plan for him, but him not being a Radiant is odd at this point. I do think @Soulcaster05 is on to something here. If nothing else, it's a unique interaction/internal dialogue with Adolin, and Sanderson did choose to italicize those words. That's about as intentional as it gets. I certainly hesitate to make any definitive claim(s), but my BSpidey since is tingling on this one. He did it for a reason, at the very least.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

All of the Kholins are Radiants, except Adolin. Clearly Sanderson has a specific plan for him, but him not being a Radiant is odd at this point

I personally don't want him to be a typical Radiant. Him being something different and special with Maya is fine and expected at that point. But still, I really enjoy his non-Radiant PoV, he is the last non-Radiant PoV character in SA after Navani bonded with the Sibling. Not everyone has to be a Radiant.

[JohnnyKaizen]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I personally don't want him to be a typical Radiant. Him being something different and special with Maya is fine and expected at that point. But still, I really enjoy his non-Radiant PoV, he is the last non-Radiant PoV character in SA after Navani bonded with the Sibling. Not everyone has to be a Radiant.

No, they don't. But certain types of people are far more likely to be Radiants. Adolin on paper (har har) certainly fits the bill. The fact that the entire family have become Radiants (Even Gavilar had originally attracted the Stormfather's notice) is, in and of itself, odd. I understand the feeling of wanting Adolin to be different. I think that's a pretty natural feeling when reading an epic like this, but stop and consider just how odd it is that Sanderson decided to make this entire family Radiant. We haven't seen anything close to this with anyone else. Lirin, has practically said the first 4 oaths of Windrunners, but he hasn't attracted a spren. That's not particularly surprising with him being who he is..i just bring it up because of the familial point I'm making.

Adolin most certianly would fit into multiple orders. Clearly he and Maya are doing something brand new, and that is exciting. I do like the OP's intent of considering that MayAdolin are doing something wild, not just new. There are many very special things about Adolin and Renarin both. And while Renarin is a Radiant..he was also the first Sja-anaty Radiant..which I am sure will lead to some other wild new stuff.

Dalinar is a different kind of Bondsmith. Renarin is a different kind of Truthwatcher. It tracks that Adolin will be a different kind of Surgebinder..whatever it is he ends up being.

[discorat]

On 12/5/2023 at 7:01 AM, Soulcaster05 said:

Not an expert in Cosmere/Connection stuff by any means, but something in RoW sparked curiosity:

In my opinion, Adolin is personally suited to Stonewards (team dynamics, being there for those who need them) and not so much Edgedancers (being there for the common folk). If Maya did not exist, he may have attracted a peakspren already? Also, I was just reading RoW for the second time and stumbled upon these 3 Adolin thoughts italicized in Chapter 35 as he fought the Tukari off with Maya alongside him, and Brandon's italicizing seems suspicious to me:

1. Never underestimate the strength of a soldier trained to stand fast.

2. Never underestimate the simple intimidating force of a man who won't back down.

3. Never underestimate the worth of being willing to hold. Your. GROUND.

Do these sound suspiciously like Oaths? I have noticed Brandon previously italicizing Oaths. Especially the first one which sounds very similar to what Coppermind thinks will be a Stoneward second Ideal!

Has Adolin already sworn his Stoneward Ideals, but no peakspren around obviously, but do you think Maya somehow accepted these (they can sense each other's thoughts/feelings) and

  Hide contents

that was why she was able to finally speak at the honorspren inquest?

Some of her dead-eye-ness was cured by doing some funky Oath acceptance thing?

 

What decided that cultuvationspren would be Edgedancer spren and peakspren be Stoneward spren? Could  Maya and Adolin be making a cultivationspren Stoneward??? 

love your brain

[slavagh]

On 12/5/2023 at 8:01 AM, Soulcaster05 said:

In my opinion, Adolin is personally suited to Stonewards (team dynamics, being there for those who need them) and not so much Edgedancers (being there for the common folk). If Maya did not exist, he may have attracted a peakspren already? Also, I was just reading RoW for the second time and stumbled upon these 3 Adolin thoughts italicized in Chapter 35 as he fought the Tukari off with Maya alongside him, and Brandon's italicizing seems suspicious to me:

1. Never underestimate the strength of a soldier trained to stand fast.

2. Never underestimate the simple intimidating force of a man who won't back down.

3. Never underestimate the worth of being willing to hold. Your. GROUND.

Do these sound suspiciously like Oaths? I have noticed Brandon previously italicizing Oaths. Especially the first one which sounds very similar to what Coppermind thinks will be a Stoneward second Ideal!

Love it. It is a very interesting direction for the progression of their bond.

[Letryx13]

Adolin is an EdgeDancer in personality if not in power.  Sanderson has confirmed that Adolin is the kind of person that Maya would have wanted to bond, and I strongly suspect that's part of how he connected to Maya to partially restore her mind.

Having said that, I do see a lot of overlap between some of the orders in terms of compatibility.  Supposedly, the ancient StoneWards had a kind of rivalry with the WindRunners over who made the better soldiers.  And it makes sense that people who could fit into one order might fit well into another one, depending on which type of spren found them first.  So I don't think it unreasonable to say that Adolin would make a good StoneWard too.

 

 

[Inevitability]

So those italicized words might not have been him saying an oath…. But it could be him approaching the oaths. We’ve seen multiple instances of Kaladin either being close to the words or just not being able to say them. 
 

I think an alternative thought process is to think about if Adolin even needs to say oaths to gain radiant powers from Maya. He’s already bonded to her. The nahel bind is symbiotic, each side gains something. We’ve seen Maya now showing signs of coming back towards sapience which makes me wonder that his current trajectory will automatically end up with him gaining the lowest level powers of Edgedancer.
 I know the problem point is just the idea of “what exactly are the old shardblades/deadeyes”… my short answer is that they are somewhat akin to an unkeyed metal mind and is able to be bonded to anyone