Aluminum and it's alloys

[Hmmm lies she/her]

Aluminum, as we know, seems to have some sort of Investiture negating effect. However, I was wondering if duralumin could enhance Investiture in some way. For example, maybe a duralumin object would be easier to cut with a shardblade or Push or Pull with Allomancy. Although it mentions "Aluminium and some of it's alloys" are immune to Allomancy, it doesn't mention this specific alloy. Any WoB?

[alder24]

8 minutes ago, Hmmm lies said:

Aluminum, as we know, seems to have some sort of Investiture negating effect. However, I was wondering if duralumin could enhance Investiture in some way. For example, maybe a duralumin object would be easier to cut with a shardblade or Push or Pull with Allomancy. Although it mentions "Aluminium and some of it's alloys" are immune to Allomancy, it doesn't mention this specific alloy. Any WoB?

Any aluminum alloy gets the property of aluminum, so this likely includes duralumin, at least in some cases. I doubt duralumin alone would be easier to cut with a Shardblade, it probably would resist it more because it's 96% aluminum. Keep in mind Allomantic effects of metals aren't the same as their effects in contact with investiture in general (like in fabrials, spores or Awakening). The material of which the object you're trying to push/pull has no effect on your push/pull unless it's aluminum (and its alloys).

But in fabrials duralumin might supercharge effects of a fabrial. But we don't know this.

Spoiler

Longshot_97

This question concerns Mistborn Era 2. Aluminum at this time is supremely rare and quite expensive, and Wax is seen lamenting his profound lack of aluminum guns and bullets fairly often. However, couldn't he fashion a "Poor Man's Aluminum" of sorts by coating his guns (and potentially bullets) in a thin veneer of iron, then Feruchemically charging it? You've noted that metalminds can still be pushed, but much less than un-Invested metal. This could help him, in the absence of aluminum. So, is there a reason he has not done that?

Brandon Sanderson

The layer you would get by just that little coat would be so small that it'd have very little effect. Now, there's a pretty good argument for putting it into bullets. The problem there is: are the alloys that make good bullets going to work very well? Now, granted, aluminum doesn’t make for great bullets either. But any aluminum alloy kind of gets the property of aluminum. Where any iron alloy does not necessarily get the property of being able to allomantically or feruchemically interact with it in the right way. Can you get there? It's an excellent question that I perhaps should explore. I like this idea. But it's harder than you make it out to be. It is a good idea, though; it's a pretty good idea.

r/books AMA 2022 (July 7, 2022)

 

[Hmmm lies she/her]

Hmm, duralumin hasn't really been discovered off of Scadrial I suppose. I figure though, that if it had the same properties as aluminium for the purpose of being Pushed or Pulled, then they would use it instead of aluminum, since copper is cheaper then aluminium. But then, it is possible that the cost to melt the 2 together is higher then the cost of the aluminum. I suppose it would be mildly weird for 4% copper to completely reverse the effects of the metal, but that is what it does when burned in Allomancy. It seems like all of the Allomantic metals have power outside of the metallic arts though. I figure here are some possibilities for it's mechanics.

1. They have forgotten how to make it on Scadrial. Unlikely I would say, as I'm not sure why they would lose the knowledge, and Connectors are still a thing.
2. It acts like any other metal when Pushed or Pulled. Possible, would explain not using it for bullets or anything
3. It acts like aluminum and can't be Pushed or Pulled. Again possible, the 4% copper might not make enough of a difference to make forging it worth it
4. It is easier to Push or Pull then other metals. Unlikely, as it would be used by Coinshots to shoot even faster bullets I would imagine.

[Treamayne]

6 hours ago, Hmmm lies said:

completely reverse the effects of the metal, but that is what it does when burned in Allomancy

Technically, that is not quite true. They are push/pull pair, but not opposites. both Alluminum and Duralumin wipe metal reserves (as do Chromium and Nicrosil), aluminum wipes without an effect, and Duralumin wipes by releasing the entire effect at once.

As far as metals in other investiture systems, it has to do with the spiritual nature of the metal (just as color has a spiritual nature that can affect investiture) Iron pulls and steel pushes, so you see them used on Lumar to affect Aether growth, in fabrials to attract or repel the element whose spiritual nature is tied to the color of the gemstone, etc. Metallic art effects aren't random, they are tied to the spiritual nature of the metal itself and can indicate how that metal interacts with other investiture systems.

[trav]

20 hours ago, Hmmm lies said:

enhance Investiture in some way

Not possible.

Its pretty much like in our world where mass and energy are the same, just transformed. You could get investiture from solid objects and use that, but you can't create more or "enhance" investiture.

I am also unsure how "easier" than "like slicing through butter with next to no resistance" would look like.

[Argenti he/him]

21 hours ago, alder24 said:

Any aluminum alloy gets the property of aluminum, so this likely includes duralumin, at least in some cases. I doubt duralumin alone would be easier to cut with a Shardblade, it probably would resist it more because it's 96% aluminum. Keep in mind Allomantic effects of metals aren't the same as their effects in contact with investiture in general (like in fabrials, spores or Awakening). The material of which the object you're trying to push/pull has no effect on your push/pull unless it's aluminum (and its alloys).

 

Most aluminum Alloy's get some of the properties of aluminum. 
I'm thinking duralumin might act like a catalyst (The proper term) and speed up investiture reactions, like spores on water.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 22.9.2023 at 2:40 AM, Treamayne said:

Technically, that is not quite true. They are push/pull pair, but not opposites. both Alluminum and Duralumin wipe metal reserves (as do Chromium and Nicrosil), aluminum wipes without an effect, and Duralumin wipes by releasing the entire effect at once.

Aluminium has a clearing effect. It removes foreign Investiture. Exactly for that reason it kills only allomantic metals, as they are connected to Preservation respectively Harmony, while it did not destroy Vin's earring. It just seems to do nothing on Scadrial because they know nothing this would be relevant for.

If, for example, Kaladin glued you to a wall, burning aluminium would free you.

On 22.9.2023 at 2:40 AM, Treamayne said:

Metallic art effects aren't random, they are tied to the spiritual nature of the metal itself and can indicate how that metal interacts with other investiture systems.

But that does not tell us, what a metal or an alloy is. It is not the element, because clay, which is to a large extent aluminium in terms of atoms, does nothing in terms of arcane effects. We have to conclude that it is the crystal lattice that makes the difference. That is the reason duraluminium is another metal in terms of the metallic arts, while the alloy of aluminium and, presumably, scandium, the Set made guns out of, acted like aluminium.