Combined shard names.

[Weaver of Lies he/him]

What if more shards combined? We know Ruin and Preservation make Harmony, but what about others? What name would they have? Here are some ideas I had.

 Ruin + Odium = Malice

Preservation + Honor = Stability

Whimsy + Ruin = Chaos

 

 Any other ideas?

 

Edit: this thread has become a place for fan made shard magic systems/shardworlds. It can be as specific as you want but if you include advanced calculations or science, please place it in a spoiler box at the end of your post and label it as such.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Lightweaver2

[Firesong she/her]

3 hours ago, Lightweaver2 said:

What if more shards combined? We know Ruin and Preservation make Harmony, but what about others? What name would they have? Here are some ideas I had.

 Ruin + Odium = Malice

Preservation + Honor = Stability

Whimsy + Ruin = Chaos

 

 Any other ideas?

I feel Malice is too close to Odium, and also, Ruin doesn't really have an inherent hatred component. It is more about inevitable decay. 

Also, I do really feel we are getting an Odium + Honor Shard, The Broken One. Todium consumes the remaining splinters of Honor and becomes a Hybrid of both. People did ask Brandon that before, and he seemed to hint towards it being a possibility. 

Quote

CephandriusTW

Stormfather once said that "Three of sixteen ruled but now the Broken One reigns" and that "Odium reigns", is not crazy to think that Odium is the Broken One. My question is, could be possible to fuse Odium's shard (without Rayse) with the remanents of Honor (his Cognitive Shadow) in order to create a new whole Shard? Could Dalinar do something like that? He would be uniting them (two Shards, one of them supposed to be the Broken One and the other that we actually now is a bit broken).

Brandon Sanderson

[That] is possible

 

General Reddit 2020 (June 18, 2020)

So, I feel that is one we should be thinking about. 

Whimsy + Autonomy might be some form of Objectivism. 

Devotion + Honor and Dominion + Honor definitely would be associated with government, with the Law of Honor, which when mixed with the idea of ruling and being ruled, makes for a good fit for governmental ideas. Maybe Devotion + Honor is like, Patriotism or Nationalism? 

Odium + Dominion and Odium + Honor could both fit for war and imperialism. Dominion we already see strongly associated with both, and Odium adds a further aspect of hatred into the mix. 

 

Ruin + Cultivation would be interesting, as both are concerning change, maybe it would just be Change. 

Also, it is basically confirmed that Ruin + Preservation could also be Discord, and will be Discord by Era 3. 

 

Edited July 8, 2023 by Firesong

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

2 minutes ago, Lightweaver2 said:

What if more shards combined? We know Ruin and Preservation make Harmony, but what about others? What name would they have? Here are some ideas I had.

 Ruin + Odium = Malice

Preservation + Honor = Stability

Whimsy + Ruin = Chaos

 

 Any other ideas?

Great names! I'm not sure about stability, Shard names tend to be culturally charged and have specific connotations, and stability is too neutral. You could argue that Harmony is too, even if he was named after musical terms instead of following the regular naming pattern, but it doesn't really matter, Stability seems like a fitting concept to come out of Preservation and Honor. I feel Honor + Preservation could also become Protection, Vindication, or Exoneration.

I (and a lot of other people independent of me) came up with Evolution for Ruin + Cultivation, which seems to be a rather fitting name, since Brandon himself said that those two would be the best Shards for each other. I can't get the idea of Roshar, had Cultivation settled there with Ruin instead of Honor, where Ruin Invests the Highstorms, out of my head; Cultivation leading the fittest and most hardened survivors to prosperity while Ruin devours the weak, the two of them constantly pushing life on the planet to Evolve. If they became a Hybrid Shard, Evolution seems like the best name. I want someone to write a fanfic AU based on this so badly, I'm almost tempted to do it myself. Some people like to think they would balance each other out and become just "Change", but there's already a Dawnshard aligned with that Intent, and as I said above, Shards are generally named after charged terms to make them more interesting.

Light Yumi and the Nightmare Painter (SP3) spoilers (Not a spoiler if you've read the first ten preview chapters on Brandon's website):

Spoiler

Devotion + Virtuosity = Zeal/Zealousness, Ardor/Ardency, or Fervor/Fervency

I like the idea of a thread about just a different Shard combination every (other) day, along with what the Vessel could interpret the Intent as and any magic systems that they could induce in a planet. Should we make this thread something like the Twinborn thread on the Mistborn forum, or the Knight Radiant Order thread?

[Weaver of Lies he/him]

57 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I feel Malice is too close to Odium, and also, Ruin doesn't really have an inherent hatred component. It is more about inevitable decay. 

Malice: desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another. -Miriam Webster Dictionary

 

That sounds to me like a good mix of hatred and destruction.

 

Quote

I like the idea of a thread about just a different Shard combination every (other) day, along with what the Vessel could interpret the Intent as and any magic systems that they could induce in a planet. Should we make this thread something like the Twinborn thread on the Mistborn forum, or the Knight Radiant Order thread?

I like this idea too.

Edited July 9, 2023 by Lightweaver2

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

Hmmm, I wonder what would come about if Dominion and Autonomy were merged?

It's been shown that even shards with opposite Intents can be merged and Autonomy is a total control freak.

I honestly don't know what you would even call that.

[Weaver of Lies he/him]

It could be Delegation. That works for the first combo, Autonomy and Dominion is Delegation. The invested people of their planet don’t gain powers themselves, but grant them to the people they wish, like a Windrunner and their squires, but the delegator doesn’t have powers themselves.

Thanks @JustQuestin2004

 Does that work?

[JustQuestin2004 he/him]

1 hour ago, Lightweaver2 said:

It could be Delegation. That works for the first combo, Autonomy and Dominion is Delegation. The invested people of their planet don’t gain powers themselves, but grant them to the people they wish, like a Windrunner and their squires, but the delegator doesn’t have powers themselves.

Thanks @JustQuestin2004

 Does that work?

Now that sounds really interesting.

That works very well indeed.

I might even be a little inspired.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

7 hours ago, Lightweaver2 said:

It could be Delegation. That works for the first combo, Autonomy and Dominion is Delegation. The invested people of their planet don’t gain powers themselves, but grant them to the people they wish, like a Windrunner and their squires, but the delegator doesn’t have powers themselves.

Thanks @JustQuestin2004

 Does that work?

 

6 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Now that sounds really interesting.

That works very well indeed.

I might even be a little inspired.

Maybe that could be another Oath-based magic system. You swear loyalty or fealty to someone, and if they accept it, you get powers. There could be different positions you could swear to, each granting a corresponding power. You can't swear to more than one position, though the Delegator may have multiple 'Squires', each getting a different ability. Break the oath and you'll immediately lose your powers and can't ever swear to anybody again, your Delegator will immediately know you broke your oath, and they can no longer grant powers to other people, the bond also breaking between any other squires sworn to the Delegator, making the entire structure collapse. This makes the entire thing require a lot of trust, as a single betrayal could bring the entire thing crashing down. Up to you whether or not a bond can be safely broken if both the Delegator and the Squire agree. Very interesting, This could be a Connection-based Invested Art that's a cross between Oath-based Knight Radiant Surgebinding and Everyone-can-technically-do-it Awakening. Very interesting indeed.

If Odium + Dominion = Tyranny, what would the magic system be?

[Weaver of Lies he/him]

A select few are given powers and are “chosen” to rule. The more people they control the stronger they are. Control meaning they follow the Tyrant’s laws. Rebellions are somewhat easy, because  when people start following a new Tyrant, that one gains power while the old one loses power.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

On 7/9/2023 at 4:16 PM, Lightweaver2 said:

A select few are given powers and are “chosen” to rule. The more people they control the stronger they are. Control meaning they follow the Tyrant’s laws. Rebellions are somewhat easy, because  when people start following a new Tyrant, that one gains power while the old one loses power.

That's an amazing idea. Here's what I could come up with by using that as a basis:

Tyrannical Magic System (Name for this Art pending, suggestions welcome):

Quote

Mechanics:

Spoiler

Some individuals on this planet are randomly chosen by Tyranny to become extra-Invested at birth. If someone chooses to follow this Invested person, they form a Connection that lets the Invested person (lets call it a Chosen) borrow a piece of their follower's Spiritweb, augmenting it to their own to make them stronger while leaving the follower as a Drab. Its like a mix between Feruchemy and Hemalurgy.

The Chosen can borrow strength, leaving their follower weak while they themselves gain extra strength, like burning pewter. You could do this for physical speed, quality of intellect, speed of thought, basically any physical, mental, or Spiritual qualities, including Identity, Connection (and through that, things like a Nahel Bond and with it Surgebinding, or access to most of the Selish Arts), and Fortune. This extends to Invested Arts too, so you could temporarily steal Allomancy, or Feruchemy, or any other Inevsted Art, and also to Investiture in general. You could steal all or some of Someone's Breaths this way.

The more people you can get to follow you, the greater access you have to power. One person is enough to become up to 1.5 times stronger/faster/whatever, but it will be debilitating for your follower. But with 2 people, you can become up to 3 times stronger, with the load shared between the two followers equally, and up to 4.5 times with 3 followers, and so on and so on, able to become inhumanly, mind-numbingly powerful the more followers you get. It is an end-neutral art.

Costs and Drawbacks:

Spoiler

There are some problems, though. Unlike other Invested Arts, where your mind and body expand to be able to handle the power, that does not occur here. You can technically become faster than light, but your reaction and processing time, along with speed of thought, will remain the same as normal, not to mention that moving at that speed will burn you alive, and your body won't have any extra resistance to g-forces. Similarly, you will gain no innate understanding that will allow you to not crush things just by holding them if you borrow immense strength, nor teach you the finesse needed to be effective with most Invested Arts. You can borrow Connection and become an Elantrian, but you will not naturally understand what Aons mean, or how to draw them.

Some of these problems could be solved by borrowing multiple attributes at the same time. For example, if you could borrow speed of thought and quality of intellect at the same time, you could run as fast as you wanted (with an upper limit due to physics). Unfortunately, only a single attribute can be borrowed at a time, though how much is borrowed can be controlled, with practice.

Not only that, using the ability slowly uses up the natural reserve of Investiture Chosen are born with. This means that they cannot continually use their borrowed abilities for long if borrowed in large amounts, and it takes time for the natural reserve to refill. This could once again be solved if the Chosen borrows regular Investiture from their followers, but since they can only borrow one attribute at one time, this cannot help make the other borrowed attributes last longer.

Following:

Spoiler

I think this one would make another good oath-based magic system (because who you 'follow' can be vague and undefined otherwise), but instead of oaths as we usually think of them, I have something more sinister in mind.

To follow someone, you must state a Command clearly and in your native tongue, professing your loyalty and servitude to the Chosen, then must bleed out about half a litre's worth of blood. If this is done properly, the blood will evaporate into red mist and vanish.

However, swearing allegiance to a Chosen is easy to undo, and has no negative consequences. All you need to do is put silver to the wound you bled from (or to the scar), then state a Command in your native tongue that you revoke your loyalty and servitude. Alternatively, you could also repeat the swearing process but under a different Chosen, which will switch your allegiance

Worldbuilding:

Spoiler

Only the most fearsome or politically-minded end up in control, either forcing or coercing people into supporting them, eliminating any other Chosen that spring up that could rival them. Its possible for a Chosen (Let's call him one) to follow another Chosen (two), with Chosen Two being able to borrow Chosen One's borrowed abilities, but due to the ephemeral nature of following, this is usually not done as killing the other Chosen is usually safer.

I think a world like this could easily settle into a situation like Scadrial, where one Chosen takes over the entire world and becomes a Lord Ruler, or two or more Chosen can't defeat one another and decide to act like the empires on Sel, ignoring each other and acting like their nonexistent, unimportant annoyances at most.

Thoughts?

Also, if Whimsy + Odium = Sadism, what would the magic system be?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[Weaver of Lies he/him]

Those are great ideas, I think they work really well. Sadism as a shard, that’s scary. Maybe a magic system similar to Hemalurgy, but instead of spiking them and then spiking another you kill them, and the more sadistically you kill them, the more power you gain.

A drawback would be it greatly affects your sanity, the more power you gain more insane you get. Insanity follows the lines of sadism of course, along with possible homicidal tendencies.

 Many, many terrorists in this world.

 

[Firesong she/her]

More evidence on the idea of Odium combining with Honor, I feel. 

Quote

CaptainObvious0927

The really question is, given the death of Rayse, is Honor really dead? Or is his essence out there, still available to be claimed?

Brandon Sanderson

I will answer this for certain by the end of Book Five. For now, RAFO.

So, something is definitely happening with it at the end of Book Five. Definitely makes me excited.  

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

8 hours ago, Lightweaver2 said:

Those are great ideas, I think they work really well. Sadism as a shard, that’s scary. Maybe a magic system similar to Hemalurgy, but instead of spiking them and then spiking another you kill them, and the more sadistically you kill them, the more power you gain.

A drawback would be it greatly affects your sanity, the more power you gain more insane you get. Insanity follows the lines of sadism of course, along with possible homicidal tendencies.

 Many, many terrorists in this world.

That's similar to the magic system I theorized for Ruin if he had settled on a planet on his own, you can see that here:

I really want to know what Fervor/Ardor (Or Fervency/Ardency, whichever sounds better) would create as a magic system, if (SP3)

Spoiler

Virtuosity

and Devotion were to conjoin.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[Firesong she/her]

1 hour ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That's similar to the magic system I theorized for Ruin if he had settled on a planet on his own, you can see that here:

I really want to know what Fervor/Ardor (Or Fervency/Ardency, whichever sounds better) would create as a magic system, if Virtuosity and Devotion were to conjoin.

Spoiler tag that, please, not the right thread for mentioning that without spoilers.

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

On 9/7/2023 at 0:35 PM, Lightweaver2 said:

 

It could be Delegation. That works for the first combo, Autonomy and Dominion is Delegation. The invested people of their planet don’t gain powers themselves, but grant them to the people they wish, like a Windrunner and their squires, but the delegator doesn’t have powers themselves.

 

To me this seems a good one but for Endowment and Dominion, since it revolves around granting others power.

Since Autonomy is about individualism and ‘survival of the fittest’, I think the combo with Dominion might be along the lines of Autocracy or something; it’s basically a compound of the two words already.

[Weaver of Lies he/him]

11 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

To me this seems a good one but for Endowment and Dominion, since it revolves around granting others power.

Since Autonomy is about individualism and ‘survival of the fittest’, I think the combo with Dominion might be along the lines of Autocracy or something; it’s basically a compound of the two words already.

I agree, both of those make sense.

 

Today’s combo: Honor + Devotion = Loyalty

 Loyalists (the people who can use Loyalty’s investiture) can know when someone is lying and have other powers. People trust them because when they pledge their allegiance they have full devotion to what they are swearing to and won’t break their oath because of their honor.

 

 

 This could use some help.

 

[Firesong she/her]

We at least know that Honor + Odium is War. But not so sure about Cultivation + Honor being Tower, the name for that moreso came from it being associated with the Sibling, instead of that being the name of the combination. 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

On 7/11/2023 at 7:42 PM, Lightweaver2 said:

I agree, both of those make sense.

Today’s combo: Honor + Devotion = Loyalty

 Loyalists (the people who can use Loyalty’s investiture) can know when someone is lying and have other powers. People trust them because when they pledge their allegiance they have full devotion to what they are swearing to and won’t break their oath because of their honor.

 This could use some help.

I think we're banking too much on Connections and oaths. I'll sprinkle some worldbuilding into this one, just to spice it up.

Seosea (pronounced See-oh-see-ah), is a planet covered completely in barren wastelands. Vast deserts stretch across the entire planet, which lacks any oceans, lakes, rivers, or other bodies of water. The atmosphere is thin and doesn't do much to protect the land from the blinding, harsh radiation of the three stars that are locked in a stable orbit in the center of the solar system where Seosea itself is found. Life exists only in the basins formed by rings of mountains, which are few and far between. In each basin, there are glowing pits of Investiture that make the surroundings habitable, creating pockets of mild temperature, lush vegetation that grows incredibly quickly and reliant only on the Investiture itself, and constantly produces steam. Due to the nature of the habitable zones of Seosea, the steam remains trapped in the basin, resulting in frequent rain over only the basins themselves. The main method of travel between basins is the pits of Investiture, which are Perpendicularities.

Splinters of Loyalty called Sezonim co-exist with the human inhabitants of the basins and constantly watch them. When someone displays true, unyielding Loyalty to something, A given Sezorah can choose to divest themselves of their Investiture and grant it to the human, giving them access to Mindgrappling, killing the Sezorah in the process. The Sezonim do not take morality into consideration when choosing someone to give the ability, only making judgments based on the amount of loyalty, devotion, and dedication they show to something.

Mindgrappling, the Invested Art of Loyalty, gives one the ability to drain the color of objects to charge up their powers, then release them in a burst of Investiture in the Cognitive Realm, which can be directed at someone's Cognitive Aspect, inserting thoughts into their mind, called Whispers. Mindgrappling must be done with care and precision, as you cannot hear a target's thoughts, and each Whisper risks revealing what you are doing. The Whisper can be made to imitate a certain voice (usually the target's own, but not limited to only that). Whispers can usually only be sent to one person at a time, though the number of targets can be increased with practice.  A Mindgrappler can Whisper to someone they cannot see, and do not need to know the target's exact location, but must be within a hundred feet of each other. Once you get farther than 100 feet from a Mindgrappler, the Whispers start sounding quieter and fainter. A Mindgrappler Savant (or one with access to a large amount of Investiture) can take control of insane or weak-willed people, as well as Hemalugists with a sufficient number of spikes. Mindgrappling is an End-Negative Art and thus has a very high Investiture cost. When near a Perpendicularity, such as those in the basins, they will work fairly well, but when not in their presence, they require other sources of Investiture.

That's about all I could come up with for this one, It's like 2 am and I've been sitting on this reply for ages. Here you go, and let me know what you think about it.

@Firesong Honor + Odium isn't necessarily War, that's only the name of their Hybrid Light. The Rhythms aren't based on what the Shard would be, as evidenced by Towerlight, which pulses to the Rhythm of the Tower, something any SInger would instinctively know just by hearing it. Honor + Odium is not necessarily War. It could be, but it's far from confirmed

Edited July 15, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[The One of Many Names]

What I really want to know is what some of the Unkown Shards would have as magic systems, like Valor or Whimsy.

[Weaver of Lies he/him]

20 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Seosea (pronounced See-oh-see-ah), is a planet covered completely in barren wastelands. Vast deserts stretch across the entire planet, which lacks any oceans, lakes, rivers, or other bodies of water. The atmosphere is thin and doesn't do much to protect the land from the blinding, harsh radiation of the three stars that are locked in a stable orbit in the center of the solar system where Seosea itself is found. Life exists only in the basins formed by rings of mountains, which are few and far between. In each basin, there are glowing pits of Investiture that make the surroundings habitable, creating pockets of mild temperature, lush vegetation that grows incredibly quickly and reliant only on the Investiture itself, and constantly produces steam. Due to the nature of the habitable zones of Seosea, the steam remains trapped in the basin, resulting in frequent rain over only the basins themselves. The main method of travel between basins is the pits of Investiture, which are Perpendicularities.

Splinters of Loyalty called Sezonim co-exist with the human inhabitants of the basins and constantly watch them. When someone displays true, unyielding Loyalty to something, A given Sezorah can choose to divest themselves of their Investiture and grant it to the human, giving them access to Mindgrappling, killing the Sezorah in the process. The Sezonim do not take morality into consideration when choosing someone to give the ability, only making judgments based on the amount of loyalty, devotion, and dedication they show to something.

Mindgrappling, the Invested Art of Loyalty, gives one the ability to drain the color of objects to charge up their powers, then release them in a burst of Investiture in the Cognitive Realm, which can be directed at someone's Cognitive Aspect, inserting thoughts into their mind, called Whispers. Mindgrappling must be done with care and precision, as you cannot hear a target's thoughts, and each Whisper risks revealing what you are doing. The Whisper can be made to imitate a certain voice (usually the target's own, but not limited to only that). Whispers can usually only be sent to one person at a time, though the number of targets can be increased with practice.  A Mindgrappler can Whisper to someone they cannot see, and do not need to know the target's exact location, but must be within a hundred feet of each other. Once you get farther than 100 feet from a Mindgrappler, the Whispers start sounding quieter and fainter. A Mindgrappler Savant (or one with access to a large amount of Investiture) can take control of insane or weak-willed people, as well as Hemalugists with a sufficient number of spikes. Mindgrappling is an End-Negative Art and thus has a very high Investiture cost. When near a Perpendicularity, such as those in the basins, they will work fairly well, but when not in their presence, they require other sources of Investiture.

That's about all I could come up with for this one, It's like 2 am and I've been sitting on this reply for ages. Here you go, and let me know what you think about it.

This is amazing, thanks!

11 minutes ago, The One of Many Names said:

What I really want to know is what some of the Unkown Shards would have as magic systems, like Valor or Whimsy.

I agree, that would be very nice to know. By the way, welcome to the shard!

[Firesong she/her]

3 minutes ago, The One of Many Names said:

What I really want to know is what some of the Unkown Shards would have as magic systems, like Valor or Whimsy.

Brandon has said usually when he mentions something he has plans for them. So we do likely have systems planned out for them. But I am definitely curious about what they are. 

Especially Whimsy. Due to how strictly structured a lot of systems are with their rules and limits. And Whimsy, from what we know of them, isn't really the most, rule abiding or plan-heavy of Shards. So, it might be a very unique one within the Cosmere. 

I am also interested in Invention. (What is Invention is connected to Fabrials?)

Quote

evi1

Is Invention involved in Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO. (You probably knew that was coming.)

He did avoid it, so it is likely something deeper than just a no. But we can't say with absolute certain as he often just RAFOs things that are nothing, so can't say "Oh, it definitely is". 

So, maybe Invention has some effect upon Fabrials. 

 

Also, I think I know why Odium is red. Maybe he was accidently corrupted by Ambition when he fought her. This would explain all the corrupted Red. It would also be a sort of irony, Odium was obsessed with never being corrupted by another Shard, but was corrupted by the one he hated the most all along (Brandon said he feared and hated Ambition a lot as she was a threat to him, with her Intent). 

It would also probably give a bit more to how Ambitious he is. 

I am not saying Odium is a full Hybrid like Harmony, but I do think it might be fused with part of Ambition. Ambition, and her relation to Odium, has been mentioned a lot in SA epigraphs, a suspicious amount, tbh. 3 or 4 times from what I can remember. Might be giving a hint. 

It is a very crackpot theory, but it makes sense in my mind. 

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The atmosphere is thin and doesn't do much to protect the land from the blinding, harsh radiation of the three stars that are locked in a stable orbit in the center of the solar system where Seosea itself is found.

Very cool worldbuilding, but I have to nitpick here (which I love to do)!  Are all three stars equally distant from the center of the solar system with the planet locked in the very center of it? That ain't possible. This isn't stable. Not to mention the atmosphere of such a planet would be blown away by solar winds of tree stars quite fast. I don't think a planet can orbit inside orbits of two or three stars. All observed stable triple stars are hierarchical systems - a binary system orbited by a third star from far away, like the Alpha Centauri system. Planets then would either orbit both binary stars or one of binary stars (or normal orbits around a far away star), but won't be inside orbits of those stars (they won't be "orbited" by their stars).

Of course, magic would fix those problems. 

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Mindgrappling, the Invested Art of Loyalty, gives one the ability to drain the color of objects to charge up their powers, then release them in a burst of Investiture in the Cognitive Realm

Mindgrappling is an End-Negative Art and thus has a very high Investiture cost.

End-negative doesn't mean high investiture cost, it means investiture in the system is lost in the process.

I was thinking if that really would be classified as an end-negative system, but if color is the only source of investiture, which is lost (returns to SR) when performing this art, it probably would be. But converting a physical aspect of objects (color) into investiture would require so much color - objects aren't invented that much, and you're taking only their color, that's even less investiture. It's probably better to make colors naturally suck investiture in (dyes are made out of vegetation, which in your world already exists by sucking investiture in, make them just keep part of this investiture, and in the process of making colors it is kept in a dye), and Mindgrappling uses investiture trapped in colors instead of just colors. But that would make this invested art end-positive as now investiture comes from the external source - the environment itself (which would get its investiture by leakage from SR).

 

And I really love your invested art. That's how you make it. Invested arts aren't always about intent of a Shard - Surgebinding was locked with Ideals by Ishar, not Honor, Honorblades aren't locked by oaths, Allomancy has nothing to do with Preservation's intent, nor Sand Mastery has anything to do with Autonomy's intent, not to mention Elantrians etc. Just because Honor + Devotion = Loyalty, doesn't mean it has to rely strictly on oaths or loyalty. Go crazy with a magic system, and make their Shard influence it only tangentially.

 

11 hours ago, Firesong said:

Also, I think I know why Odium is red. Maybe he was accidently corrupted by Ambition when he fought her. This would explain all the corrupted Red. It would also be a sort of irony, Odium was obsessed with never being corrupted by another Shard, but was corrupted by the one he hated the most all along (Brandon said he feared and hated Ambition a lot as she was a threat to him, with her Intent). 

Odium isn't red, he's gold or violet. Even the Voidlight isn't red. Fused and some Voidspren (not all) are red, but if you look at their origin, you'll understand why - they were made by Adonalsium, later mostly associated with Cultivation and Honor's investiture, then Odium came and infused them with his investiture, changing them. He basically corrupted them, thus they're red. But Odium isn't red.

Spoiler

Roger

As I understand it, red is a sign of corruption in the cosmere. I just reread The Emperor's Soul, and it mentioned wisps of red smoke when Shai tests the Soulstamps. Does this mean she is corrupting Gaotona's soul?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that is what that means. Corruption doesn't have to have the negative connotation, right? Basically, it means an outside influence is changing the Spiritual nature of the soul. And, yeah, that's exactly what is happening right there. Now, I would call that a pretty good thing, but... like, all of those things, where she is playing with someone's soul, and changing it, and changing their past, and things like this. This is, by cosmere definition, corrupting someone's soul. That's expressly what it is.

YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

So, we know in Mistborn there is this running... you can say, motif about Ruin being associated with the color black and Preservation with the color white, we see a lot of very subtle and a lot of very unsubtle...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yes.

Questioner

Is such a motif present in any other books? I think I see it in Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, in Stormlight you can see it. So, Ruin is a red-gold... not Ruin, Odium. Odium is a red-gold. Honor is a blue-white and Cultivation is green, obviously. So, those motifs stay, when you... when you see a red or a gold, it's a reddish gold sort of thing, either of those colors, it's going to be Odium.

Questioner

Even when we something we might suspect to be outside influence in other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Not necessarily, because red can also mean corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere. So, I would call Odium's real color gold, because you're going to see red when Odium is corrupting other things, so...

Questioner

It's not necessarily on Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

It's not necessarily Odium. So, you're asking for the invading force on Mistborn, it doesn't necessarily mean Odium because it's red. So red just kind of means corruption. I've talked about that before, so. Not necessarily, not definitive, yeah.

Footnote: When Sanderson said "you're asking about the invading force on Mistborn", the questioner made a guilty "caught red-handed" shrug.
ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

[Firesong she/her]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

Very cool worldbuilding, but I have to nitpick here (which I love to do)!  Are all three stars equally distant from the center of the solar system with the planet locked in the very center of it? That ain't possible. This isn't stable. Not to mention the atmosphere of such a planet would be blown away by solar winds of tree stars quite fast. I don't think a planet can orbit inside orbits of two or three stars. All observed stable triple stars are hierarchical systems - a binary system orbited by a third star from far away, like the Alpha Centauri system. Planets then would either orbit both binary stars or one of binary stars (or normal orbits around a far away star), but won't be inside orbits of those stars (they won't be "orbited" by their stars).

Of course, magic would fix those problems. 

End-negative doesn't mean high investiture cost, it means investiture in the system is lost in the process.

I was thinking if that really would be classified as an end-negative system, but if color is the only source of investiture, which is lost (returns to SR) when performing this art, it probably would be. But converting a physical aspect of objects (color) into investiture would require so much color - objects aren't invented that much, and you're taking only their color, that's even less investiture. It's probably better to make colors naturally suck investiture in (dyes are made out of vegetation, which in your world already exists by sucking investiture in, make them just keep part of this investiture, and in the process of making colors it is kept in a dye), and Mindgrappling uses investiture trapped in colors instead of just colors. But that would make this invested art end-positive as now investiture comes from the external source - the environment itself (which would get its investiture by leakage from SR).

 

And I really love your invested art. That's how you make it. Invested arts aren't always about intent of a Shard - Surgebinding was locked with Ideals by Ishar, not Honor, Honorblades aren't locked by oaths, Allomancy has nothing to do with Preservation's intent, nor Sand Mastery has anything to do with Autonomy's intent, not to mention Elantrians etc. Just because Honor + Devotion = Loyalty, doesn't mean it has to rely strictly on oaths or loyalty. Go crazy with a magic system, and make their Shard influence it only tangentially.

 

Odium isn't red, he's gold or violet. Even the Voidlight isn't red. Fused and some Voidspren (not all) are red, but if you look at their origin, you'll understand why - they were made by Adonalsium, later mostly associated with Cultivation and Honor's investiture, then Odium came and infused them with his investiture, changing them. He basically corrupted them, thus they're red. But Odium isn't red.

  Reveal hidden contents

Roger

As I understand it, red is a sign of corruption in the cosmere. I just reread The Emperor's Soul, and it mentioned wisps of red smoke when Shai tests the Soulstamps. Does this mean she is corrupting Gaotona's soul?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that is what that means. Corruption doesn't have to have the negative connotation, right? Basically, it means an outside influence is changing the Spiritual nature of the soul. And, yeah, that's exactly what is happening right there. Now, I would call that a pretty good thing, but... like, all of those things, where she is playing with someone's soul, and changing it, and changing their past, and things like this. This is, by cosmere definition, corrupting someone's soul. That's expressly what it is.

YouTube Livestream 10 (June 18, 2020)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

So, we know in Mistborn there is this running... you can say, motif about Ruin being associated with the color black and Preservation with the color white, we see a lot of very subtle and a lot of very unsubtle...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, yes.

Questioner

Is such a motif present in any other books? I think I see it in Stormlight.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, in Stormlight you can see it. So, Ruin is a red-gold... not Ruin, Odium. Odium is a red-gold. Honor is a blue-white and Cultivation is green, obviously. So, those motifs stay, when you... when you see a red or a gold, it's a reddish gold sort of thing, either of those colors, it's going to be Odium.

Questioner

Even when we something we might suspect to be outside influence in other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

Not necessarily, because red can also mean corrupted Investiture in the Cosmere. So, I would call Odium's real color gold, because you're going to see red when Odium is corrupting other things, so...

Questioner

It's not necessarily on Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson

It's not necessarily Odium. So, you're asking for the invading force on Mistborn, it doesn't necessarily mean Odium because it's red. So red just kind of means corruption. I've talked about that before, so. Not necessarily, not definitive, yeah.

Footnote: When Sanderson said "you're asking about the invading force on Mistborn", the questioner made a guilty "caught red-handed" shrug.
ICon 2019 (Oct. 15, 2019)

Yeah, true. We mostly see red as associated with the Voidspren, Unmade, and Fused. Which are all corrupted by him or by the Unmade, and we know red is the colour of corrupted Investiture. Well, Unmade being corrupted Spren is just a theory at this point, but them trying to Unmake the Sibling does give a lot of credence to the idea. So does Ba-Ado-Mishram's... everything. and Nergaoul being all red. 

But yes, as I said, my theory of Odium fusing with part of Ambition, as I said, was rather crackpot. It could be totally wrong. But I kinda want to keep holding onto it as I really like the idea. 

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

On 7/16/2023 at 1:07 AM, Firesong said:

8 hours ago, Firesong said:

Brandon has said usually when he mentions something he has plans for them. So we do likely have systems planned out for them. But I am definitely curious about what they are.

Especially Whimsy. Due to how strictly structured a lot of systems are with their rules and limits. And Whimsy, from what we know of them, isn't really the most, rule abiding or plan-heavy of Shards. So, it might be a very unique one within the Cosmere. 

I am also interested in Invention. (What is Invention is connected to Fabrials?)

He did avoid it, so it is likely something deeper than just a no. But we can't say with absolute certain as he often just RAFOs things that are nothing, so can't say "Oh, it definitely is". 

So, maybe Invention has some effect upon Fabrials. 

I'm willing to start brainstorming magic systems out for them anyway, just to see.

Quote

8 hours ago, Firesong said:

Also, I think I know why Odium is red. Maybe he was accidently corrupted by Ambition when he fought her. This would explain all the corrupted Red. It would also be a sort of irony, Odium was obsessed with never being corrupted by another Shard, but was corrupted by the one he hated the most all along (Brandon said he feared and hated Ambition a lot as she was a threat to him, with her Intent). 

It would also probably give a bit more to how Ambitious he is. 

I am not saying Odium is a full Hybrid like Harmony, but I do think it might be fused with part of Ambition. Ambition, and her relation to Odium, has been mentioned a lot in SA epigraphs, a suspicious amount, tbh. 3 or 4 times from what I can remember. Might be giving a hint. 

It is a very crackpot theory, but it makes sense in my mind. 

My response:

Spoiler

Spoiler

That theory is viable, it could have happened. But Odium himself isn't Corrupted at all. His Investiture is often red because he Corrupts others. Instances, where his Investiture is red, are:

• The Fused
  • They have glowing red eyes, and the Investiture they use is red. This is because their souls have been infused with Odium's Investiture, Corrupting them.
• The Unmade
  • The Unmade such as Nergaoul (the Thrill) often manifest with red colorings, such as red mist. They used to be other beings before they were Unmade, Odium just Corrupted and co-opted them, giving some sentience, leaving others mindless, trapping them between the Cognitive and Physical Realms.
• Voidspren
  • A lot of Voidspren, mindless (such as Stormspren) or otherwise (Such as Ulim) are red, and again, that means they are Corrupted Investiture, possibly having been regular Spren previously, or maybe just Honorable/Cultivated Investiture that was lying around that Odium fashioned Spren out of.
• Enlightened Spren
  • really just another name for Corruption, Enlightened Spren become red (Windspren, Mistspren) or even redder (Corrupted Angerspren are so dark they look like bubbling pools of tar, Anticipationspren become black and whiplike). Some Corrupted Spren do not turn red, but any unusual color change is a sign of Corruption. Black is the other most common one, with it appearing in the Investiture Nightblood corrupts, as well as (SP3 SPOILERS)
    Spoiler

    The Shroud.

     

In instances where he isn't using Corrupted Investiture, there is no red coloring, only various purple-blacks and golds.

So yeah, Odium isn't Corrupted at all. If he was, for some unexplained reason, I think your theory would be the most likely answer, but he just isn't, so far as I know.

Re: Mindgrappling

Spoiler

 

Quote

Very cool worldbuilding, but I have to nitpick here (which I love to do)!  Are all three stars equally distant from the center of the solar system with the planet locked in the very center of it? That ain't possible. This isn't stable. Not to mention the atmosphere of such a planet would be blown away by solar winds of tree stars quite fast. I don't think a planet can orbit inside orbits of two or three stars. All observed stable triple stars are hierarchical systems - a binary system orbited by a third star from far away, like the Alpha Centauri system. Planets then would either orbit both binary stars or one of binary stars (or normal orbits around a far away star), but won't be inside orbits of those stars (they won't be "orbited" by their stars).

Of course, magic would fix those problems. 

I don't mind nitpicking, I actually quite like it. It opens an idea up for discussion more, and you can achieve more nuance and catch any problems. Regarding the bit about the suns, that is not what I meant, sorry if it was unclear. What I had imagined was 3 stars in the center of the solar system, orbiting each other, with Seosea itself farther out in the solar system orbiting the three as Earth orbits the sun. And the planet is meant to have lost its atmosphere to solar winds, with only the Perpendicularities trapping mini-atmospheres in the basins. Outside of the basins, Seosea is an irradiated wasteland. I wanted there to be a way for the magic to allow for travel out into the rest of the world, but I completely forgot to include that.

Quote

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

End-negative doesn't mean high investiture cost, it means investiture in the system is lost in the process.

I know, but I'd considered multiple different base ideas for the magic system, and none of them seemed satisfactory to me, so when I was writing it last night I decided to wing it and made something more basic. That's why it isn't as intricate as I would have liked, so the easiest cost I could apply to it was to make it End-negative. In the process of Mindgrappling, Investiture is lost to the environment, so the effect achieved is less dramatic than it should be. For example, if you have 4 Units of Investiture and Whisper to someone, the strength of the Whisper would be as if you only had 3 Units, as 1 whole Unit was lost in the transferrence of the Whisper from you to the target. Color acts as a messenger for the Whisper, and so the more Color you drain, the more strength your Whisper will retain by the time it reaches the target. In the basins, you don't need to worry about a source for your Investiture, since the Perpendicularities produce quite a lot of ambient Investiture, but outside of the basins and off-planet, other sources will need to be secured.

Quote

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I was thinking if that really would be classified as an end-negative system, but if color is the only source of investiture, which is lost (returns to SR) when performing this art, it probably would be. But converting a physical aspect of objects (color) into investiture would require so much color - objects aren't invented that much, and you're taking only their color, that's even less investiture. It's probably better to make colors naturally suck investiture in (dyes are made out of vegetation, which in your world already exists by sucking investiture in, make them just keep part of this investiture, and in the process of making colors it is kept in a dye), and Mindgrappling uses investiture trapped in colors instead of just colors. But that would make this invested art end-positive as now investiture comes from the external source - the environment itself (which would get its investiture by leakage from SR).

The color isn't the source of Investiture itself but rather acts as the conveyor, similar to Awakening. In that, the color isn't the source of the Investiture, that's the Breaths, but rather is needed for some reason to Awaken something. It works kind of the same way here, Color just determines the efficacy of the Invesitture's travel. More colors will allow for less Investiture to be lost in the process, creating more powerful Whispers.

Quote

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

And I really love your invested art. That's how you make it. Invested arts aren't always about intent of a Shard - Surgebinding was locked with Ideals by Ishar, not Honor, Honorblades aren't locked by oaths, Allomancy has nothing to do with Preservation's intent, nor Sand Mastery has anything to do with Autonomy's intent, not to mention Elantrians etc. Just because Honor + Devotion = Loyalty, doesn't mean it has to rely strictly on oaths or loyalty. Go crazy with a magic system, and make their Shard influence it only tangentially.

That was my reasoning for creating this to be so detached from Loyalty's Intent, using those same examples of Allomancy and Sand Mastery. Anything tied to loyalty that I could come up with relied on Connection, which we've already overused. I'd rather make something more connected to the Intent (because otherwise you could just make anything and link it to the Shard, which requires far more creativity than what I have), but I'm mostly happy with how this worked out.

 

Now, onto the new Magic systems. This is gonna be one long post.

Invention first, because it intrigues me. I even did Khriss-like essays on the planets, just to be proactive.

Spoiler

Astronomy:

Spoiler

So, this will be two moons that orbit one another instead of a planet. These two moons are called Verdas and Nirah. They are exactly the same size and orbit one another in a stable orbit. In the center of the solar system, there is a Sun which is locked in a stable orbit with a black hole. These two orbit each other in the center, while Verdas and Nirah orbit them from farther out. The moons are 0.5 the size of the Cosmere standard, but have extremely dense cores, giving them a stronger gravitation field than a usual astronomical body of its size, rounding off to about 0.8 Cosmere standard. Both moons also have extremely strong magnetic fields.

Ecology and Geography:

• Nirah:

Spoiler

Nirah is a planet covered largely in oceans, with a single small continent and multiple archipelagos. The oceans on Nirah, however, are blood red rather than the typical blue. This is because an aquatic genus of bacteria has evolved on Nirah to produce Investiture as a byproduct of its natural metabolism. The production of this Investiture is key to the bacteria's longevity and extremely successful reproductive cycles. The Investiture is largely unused by the bacteria itself, and so is often drawn in by the marine life of Nirah's oceans. This causes the marine fauna and flora to grow larger than usual and allows life in Nirah's oceans to circumvent certain biological limits on size and shape. Due to this, many species of extremely large marine life, both plants and animals, are quite common.

The presence of the bacterium causes the oceans of Nirah to be far darker and murkier, and so selective pressures and the presence of Investiture have caused a large percentage of Niran marine life to develop bioluminescence, utilizing the Investiture to do so. Due to the Investiture originating with the bacteria, the light produced by such bioluminescence is able to cut through the water clearly with next to no blockage by the bacteria. At night, many of these lights can be seen glowing in the water even from the shore. The local vernacular for Investiture is "Seashine".

Terrestrial life on Nirah, however, is largely similar to other Cosmere specimens, and there is little notable diversity from life on other planets.

• Verdas:

Spoiler

Verdas, unlike its sister moon, has more land than water. It has many large inland seas, big enough to rival the oceans of other planets. They are, however, surrounded by land on all sides, and unconnected to one another. Where Nirah has mountainous islands that dot its oceans, Verdas is flat and unassuming, with a deficit of the tectonic activity common in Niarh. Verdasan aquatic life is also rather lackluster in contrast to its twin, but it more than makes up for this with its subterranean megafauna. Large creatures, collectively referred to as Cave Dwellers, haunt the many massive cave systems that wind under the surface of Verdas. Indeed, these cave systems are so mind-numbingly large, so interconnected, that they may even be one Mega Cave System, with tunnels so cavernous that they allow even these hulking monstrosities to evade human eyes with ease. How such a single, large cave system could come into being through natural causes, I do not yet know, though I suspect it has to do with the local Shard.

Despite the common name, the Cave Dwellers are actually two entirely different classes of animals, one mammalian (similar to extremely large bats) and the other reptilian (some of whom look disturbingly humanoid), though many of the two share features through convergent evolution. Cave Dwellers on average reach 12 feet tall, often having long, spindly limbs that are unexpectedly strong. The reptilian Cave Dwellers especially often resemble emaciated, deformed humans, whereas the mammalian ones are often likened to grotesque, wingless bats. Both kinds also have eyes that are completely black, with a single pinprick of white in their center, roughly where you'd find the pupil in a human. Though they are thought to be blind, it is hypothesized that they can use the white sections of their eyes to detect the luminosity of their surroundings, allowing them to keep to the dark. Lacking sight, and given the large ears of the mammalian Cave Dwellers and reports of the ear-piercing shrieks both Dwellers release, they are assumed to use echolocation to navigate.

It is as of yet unknown how Dwellers are able to find enough food to sustain themselves.

Another unique feature of the Verdasan caves is the unusual stalactites, found only in five very specific caverns deep underground, that drip an unidentifiable liquid into small depressions found directly underneath them. Over the course of a week, this liquid solidifies into a metal that I am almost certain is the God Metal of the local Shard. Once the metal forms, the stalactite stops producing the liquid until and unless the metal is removed from its depression, a deceptively easy task. Though the other scholars of Silverlight and I have spent months researching trying to find the source of this mysterious liquid, our quest has been fruitless so far. Recent tests have revealed that liquid is incredibly Invested, however, so we retain hope.

Magic Systems:

• Nirah:

Spoiler

On Nirah, minerals of the Serpentine Subgroup absorb Seashine, making it glow with a strong inner light. This is, one may note, extremely similar to how 10 varieties of specific gems on Roshar (colloquially referred to as Polestones) are able to hold various Gaseous Investitures. The fewer imperfections and impurities in the stone, the more Seashine the Serpentine can hold, as well as increasing the amount of time it can hold the Seashine.

Certain Nirans, known as Lightbearers, are able to draw the Seashine from a gemstone, then convert it into energy, such as heat, light, or electricity. When held within the body, Seashine makes the Lightbearer's eyes shine celadon, as well as healing any injuries. The light and electricity produced from Seashine, curiously, is also always celadon in color. Because power, energy, and Investiture are so easily acquired on Nirah, it has had by far the fastest industrial and technological growth in the history of the Cosmere.

This Invested Art is hereditary, though in a manner I have yet to see elsewhere in the Cosmere. Instead of random chance based on genetic factors, the second oldest child of a Lightbearer will always also be a Lightbearer. Interestingly, if something happens to the first two children, the power changes hands. If the oldest child dies, the second oldest child, who used to be a Lightbearer, loses their ability, as they are now the oldest child. If there is a third child, they suddenly become the Lightbearer instead. The same applies if the second child themself dies, in which case the previously third child becomes a Lightbearer. Due to the entire mechanical industry resting on the shoulders of the Lightbearers, they often find themselves in positions of power and wealth.

This is, to my knowledge the only other instance of access to an Invested Art creating such a distinct division between the ruling class and the regular people other than the Pre-Catacendric Era of Scadrial.

Predictably, this has had a profound effect on Niran Society. The upper echelon of the Niran population go about with glowing Serpentine jewelry, both as a mark of station and wealth and a source of power to draw from in order to fight. Lightbearers are dangerous individuals, with the power to stun through blinding light or electric shocks, as well as kill by burning people alive through heat and sometimes immense electricity. Many Lightbearers also carry vials of bacterium-infested water filled with powdered Serpentine as an emergency source of power, as though the vials do not carry much in the way of Investiture, they are good safety nets if a Lightbearer becomes trapped in an altercation with little or no Seashine, and do not run out of Investiture.

Lightbearing is an End-positive Art.

• Verdas:

Spoiler

Verdas was lacking an Invested Art for most of its history, as it is mechanical and hinges around that curious metal found in the caves, which were largely avoided for fear of Dwellers. Verdas was originally a planet made of predominantly fishing societies formed along the coast. They hadn't made many notable scientific advances up until this point in time.

That all changed when the Nirans arrived, brought to Verdas by Lightbearer-propelled rocket ships. In a rare turn of events, the Nirans decided not to crusade across the planet looting and pillaging the natives before forcing them into submitting to the Nirans as a colony and instead began sharing technology with the Verdasans, helping them grow as a civilization. Once the Verdasans had caught up to the Nirans, many Lightbearers had settled on Verdas, bringing with them samples of the bacteria to produce Seashine, cultivated in farms and carefully kept away from the Verdasan seas to avoid any potential damage to the pre-existing ecosystem. It was then that, with a greater focus on scientific development, the Verdasans finally came across the metal.

It baffled them at first, as it did us Silverlight scholars, but through intense research and a never-ending supply of the stuff, they had teased out its secrets. The metal, referred to as Venium (as in Invention, because the Shard's name has not yet been discovered), has a peculiar property, as all God Metals do. It, when heated to a specific temperature, converts the thermal energy into Investiture, which appears as mist (once again celadon in hue) that hovers around the metal's surface, referred to as Haze.

This was the breakthrough that lead to the discovery of the Verdasan Invested Art: a completely mechanical Art that anyone with the right knowledge and resources can perform (without Intent, notably) called Invention [I know, but I can't think of anything better right now].

The heart of Invention lies in the 16 Allomantic metals, along with 2 others that were unexpected. When exposed to one of the 18 metals, heated Venium does not produce Haze, but rather applies it immediately to a specific task. A Venium Construct is referred to as an Invention, though some would term it a Fabrial. Invention (the Art) in general shares a suspicious number of similarities with Rosharan Fabrial Science, and many at Silverlight are beginning to think that this is not a coincidence. Regardless, each metal has an effect:

Iron: Causes nearby (sources of) Investiture to be attracted to the Venium

Steel: Causes nearby (sources of) Investiture to be repelled from the Venium

Tin: Causes any nearby Investiture to activate; i.e, a full Brassmind begins producing heat, a Fabrial (even one devoid of Light) to take effect, an Aonic equation (one that had to have been written by an Elantrian) to activate, etc.

Pewter: Suppresses nearby Investiture; i.e., an activated Fabrial will produce no effect, and Aon drawn by an Elantris will refuse to activate, etc.

Zinc: Strengthens Connection (Very useful to Selish peoples)

Brass: Suppresses Connection (useful to people wishing to fight Selish people on Sel, or people wishing to fight a Bondsmith)

Copper: Hides/Blocks Kinetic Investiture pulses

Bronze: Causes pulses of Investiture to be emitted like a beacon, forming an 'audible' Investiture field (useful for preserving Aethers)

Aluminum: Blocks Invention (the Art)

Duralumin: Causes an Invention to complete its effect in one dramatic burst

Nicrosil: Corrupts Investiture (Needs a sample of the Investiture you wish to Corrupt to)

Gold: Causes an Invention to take effect in a wide area

Electrum: Causes an Invention to take effect in a specific direction, from as broad as a wave to as precise as a beam

Cadmium: Slows the effect of an Invention

Bendalloy: Speeds up the effect of an Invention

There are also two surpsing additions to the list of metals that can affect the Venium's effect:

Silver: Suppresses Cognitive Entities (Splinters, Cognitive Shadows, etc.) to be forced out of the Physical Realm if they've manifested there, or to be unable to enter the corresponding area in the CR if they're in the Cognitive Realm

Argentium: Makes Cognitive Entities manifest, making beings that had already manifested such as Spren or Seons form physically (as Shardblades for True Spren and Seons, Shardplate for Plate Spren, Chunks of metal for regular spren, etc.) or to show up as Spren-like manifestations if they weren't already, such as Spren in the Cognitive Realm, as well as Cognitive Shadows.

It is End-Neutral

 

 

That's all for me, I was going to make one for Whimsy and Valor as well, but it's already 1 30 am and it's a school night.

Edited January 22 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I don't mind nitpicking, I actually quite like it. It opens an idea up for discussion more, and you can achieve more nuance and catch any problems. Regarding the bit about the suns, that is not what I meant, sorry if it was unclear. What I had imagined was 3 stars in the center of the solar system, orbiting each other, with Seosea itself farther out in the solar system orbiting the three as Earth orbits the sun. And the planet is meant to have lost its atmosphere to solar winds, with only the Perpendicularities trapping mini-atmospheres in the basins. Outside of the basins, Seosea is an irradiated wasteland. I wanted there to be a way for the magic to allow for travel out into the rest of the world, but I completely forgot to include that.

That's better. Still unstable, one star would be flung out into the void, but magic will fix that. 

9 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

I know, but I'd considered multiple different base ideas for the magic system, and none of them seemed satisfactory to me, so when I was writing it last night I decided to wing it and made something more basic. That's why it isn't as intricate as I would have liked, so the easiest cost I could apply to it was to make it End-negative. In the process of Mindgrappling, Investiture is lost to the environment, so the effect achieved is less dramatic than it should be. For example, if you have 4 Units of Investiture and Whisper to someone, the strength of the Whisper would be as if you only had 3 Units, as 1 whole Unit was lost in the transferrence of the Whisper from you to the target. Color acts as a messenger for the Whisper, and so the more Color you drain, the more strength your Whisper will retain by the time it reaches the target. In the basins, you don't need to worry about a source for your Investiture, since the Perpendicularities produce quite a lot of ambient Investiture, but outside of the basins and off-planet, other sources will need to be secured.

Ok, that's end-negative for sure. Good think you clarify the details.

9 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That was my reasoning for creating this to be so detached from Loyalty's Intent, using those same examples of Allomancy and Sand Mastery. Anything tied to loyalty that I could come up with relied on Connection, which we've already overused. I'd rather make something more connected to the Intent (because otherwise you could just make anything and link it to the Shard, which requires far more creativity than what I have), but I'm mostly happy with how this worked out.

Yes, it's good one.

 

 

9 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

So, this will be two moons that orbit one another instead of a planet. These two moons are called Verdas and Nirah. They are exactly the same size and orbit one another in a stable orbit.

Nitpicking time! Two moons? Are they orbiting any planet or just their star? If there is no planet, those are no moons, it's a space station they are a binary planet. Very rare, we haven't found any of such systems yet (Pluto-Charon or Earth-Moon are sometimes proposed to be binary planets but aren't), but it's possible. If they are moons and they have a planet, what planet are they orbiting? Gas giant - that's fine, not sure about shared orbit. Rocky planet like Earth - it's almost impossible for a rocky planet to have 2 big spherical moons, especially on the same orbit around each other.

9 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

there is a Sun which is locked in a stable orbit with a black hole.

Dude  Really? I envy this system, I would love to witness a star eclipsed by a black hole  

Possible, but dangerous. What's the mass of the star and that black hole (make the star G-type main-sequence star, just like the Sun to avoid problems with no light on planets and with too short lifespan)? Does this black hole consume that star, or are they far away from each other (far away to avoid X-rays emitted from accretion disk, but then black hole is invisible on the sky unless it passes in front of the second star)?  What's the origin of this black hole - is it captured or from a star collapse? Both could be disastrous events for the planetary system, destroying the binary planet for sure if that's a captured black hole. Core collapse implies a massive star, more than 40-90x the mass of the Sun to guarantee no Supernova (which would create so much troubles for the binary planet). But every star big enough to collapse into a Supernova would go through a red giant phase, expanding to such a radius to likely transfer mass to/from the other star, and swallow neighboring planets, or change their orbits, destroying the binary planet. Basically I don't see a way for a binary planet to exist around a black hole. I'm no expert though, I'm just nitpicking. Magic is the answer  

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The moons are 0.5 the size of the Cosmere standard, but have extremely dense cores, giving them a stronger gravitation field than a usual astronomical body of its size, rounding off to about 0.8 Cosmere standard. Both moons also have extremely strong magnetic fields.

Don't do that. I did math, that's 7x the density of Earth, impossible to exist. Make them just Earth-sized with Earth's gravity. Or play around with lower gravity and smaller planets, like Roshar, that can be fun. Or just make them as dense as Earth/Mercury - lower mass, lower gravity, but real planets - Mercury's gravitational acceleration is 40% of Earth's but has only 30% radius compared to Earth's, on your planets which have larger radius, with real densities, gravity would still be smaller than what's on Mercury.

People living on those planets (with real density) adapted to low mass environment over long period of time (form investiture for example)(can jump really high, and are the highest in Cosmere) but incoming travelers need to use F-iron medallions or Gravity fabrials to live there - cool real mechanic involving the use magi-tech. You can then say that because those devices weren't developed till current times, contact and trade with this system was very limited (plus a black hole would mess up time dilation in CR for trade routes).

Strong magnetic field is fine.

 

 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The oceans on Nirah, however, are blood red rather than the typical blue.

Red water indicates a huge concentration of iron.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

This causes the marine fauna and flora to grow larger than usual and allows life in Nirah's oceans to circumvent certain biological limits on size and shape. Due to this, many species of extremely large marine life, both plants and animals, are quite common.

Keep in mind, large animals require ridiculous amounts of food. 

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

The presence of the bacterium causes the oceans of Nirah to be far darker and murkier

Due to the Investiture originating with the bacteria, the light produced by such bioluminescence is able to cut through the water clearly with next to no blockage by the bacteria.

That's not how light works  You have darker and murkier water, you have no light propagation in it. Investiture still glows emitting normal physical light. 

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Terrestrial life on Nirah, however, is largely similar to other Cosmere specimens, and there is little notable diversity from life on other planets.

Unlikely, unless they were brought there from Yolen, or recreated by a Shard.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It has many large inland seas, big enough to rival the oceans of other planets. They are, however, surrounded by land on all sides, and unconnected to one another. 

Sooo they are oceans?  Definition of ocean: a very large expanse of sea, in particular each of the main areas into which the sea is divided geographically.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Verdas is flat and unassuming, with a deficit of the tectonic activity common in Niarh.

Hold up a minute. You said: Both moons also have extremely strong magnetic fields. You can't have a strong magnetic field without large tectonic activity, especially on a planet where the majority of its surface is land. Either you make it like Roshar (created by Adonalsium with some way to generate magnetic field or you make it tectonically active.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Large creatures, collectively referred to as Cave Dwellers, haunt the many massive cave systems that wind under the surface of Verdas. Indeed, these cave systems are so mind-numbingly large, so interconnected, that they may even be one Mega Cave System, with tunnels so cavernous that they allow even these hulking monstrosities to evade human eyes with ease.

I wonder how big a cave can get before it collapses on itself. It depends on the depth. No complaints here, just wondering. I like cavy planets.

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Though they are thought to be blind, it is hypothesized that they can use the white sections of their eyes to detect the luminosity of their surroundings, allowing them to keep to the dark.

It's dark so no luminosity is there

10 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Another unique feature of the Verdasan caves is the unusual stalactites, found only in five very specific caverns deep underground, that drip an unidentifiable liquid into small depressions found directly underneath them. Over the course of a week, this liquid solidifies into a metal that I am almost certain is the God Metal of the local Shard. Once the metal forms, the stalactite stops producing the liquid until and unless the metal is removed from its depression, a deceptively easy task. Though the other scholars of Silverlight and I have spent months researching trying to find the source of this mysterious liquid, our quest has been fruitless so far. Recent tests have revealed that liquid is incredibly Invested, however, so we retain hope.

Love it.

 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Because power, energy, and Investiture are so easily acquired on Nirah, it has had by far the fastest industrial and technological growth in the history of the Cosmere.

Cough cough Autonomy would like to have a word with you about Taldain.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

This Invested Art is hereditary, though in a manner I have yet to see elsewhere in the Cosmere. Instead of random chance based on genetic factors, the second oldest child of a Lightbearer will always also be a Lightbearer. Interestingly, if something happens to the first two children, the power changes hands. If the oldest child dies, the second oldest child, who used to be a Lightbearer, loses their ability, as they are now the oldest child. If there is a third child, they suddenly become the Lightbearer instead. The same applies if the second child themself dies, in which case the previously third child becomes a Lightbearer. Due to the entire mechanical industry resting on the shoulders of the Lightbearers, they often find themselves in positions of power and wealth.

Oh wow, that's cool. Killing your enemy's siblings to make them lose power is a new tactic in future vs threads  

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

This is, to my knowledge the only other instance of access to an Invested Art creating such a distinct division between the ruling class and the regular people other than the Pre-Catacendric Era of Scadrial.

Radiants? They throw spheres around like crazy. While they aren't ruling class, they're rich. Elantrians however were a ruling class.

Is the tech developed on Nirah like fabrials, dependent on magic? Or is it powered by Lightbearers directly (they make electricity in power plants)? Or is it Earth-like tech? This is important.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That all changed when the Nirans arrived, brought to Verdas by Lightbearer-propelled rocket ships.

How? Lightbearers make light, heat and electricity, not propellant (which is mass). They can use electricity or heat to heat up gasses which are later thrown behind the ship, propelling it forward, but having a machine doing it for you is better.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That all changed when the Nirans arrived, brought to Verdas by Lightbearer-propelled rocket ships. In a rare turn of events, the Nirans decided not to crusade across the planet looting and pillaging the natives before forcing them into submitting to the Nirans as a colony and instead began sharing technology with the Verdasans, helping them grow as a civilization. Once the Verdasans had caught up to the Nirans, many Lightbearers had settled on Verdas, bringing with them samples of the bacteria to produce Seashine, cultivated in farms and carefully kept away from the Verdasan seas to avoid any potential damage to the pre-existing ecosystem. It was then that, with a greater focus on scientific development, the Verdasans finally came across the metal.

It might be cool to make those bacteria unable to live in Verdas' oceans (for example due to low concentration of iron), and thus they have to struggle with artificial enclosures to create Seashine. It sounds more believable than people just being nice and caring for ecosystem  

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

This was the breakthrough that lead to the discovery of the Verdasan Invested Art: a completely mechanical Art that anyone with the right knowledge and resources can perform (without Intent, notably) called Invention [I know, but I can't think of anything better right now].

Wait, without intent? Do you mean if someone accidentally does the right steps without wanting to use this art they will still use them? 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Pewter: Suppresses nearby Investiture; i.e., an activated Fabrial will produce no effect, and Aon drawn by an Elantris will refuse to activate, etc.

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Aluminum: Blocks Invention (the Art)

Do Pewter suppresses inventions too?

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

It, when heated to a specific temperature, converts the thermal energy into Investiture, which appears as mist (once again celadon in hue) that hovers around the metal's surface, referred to as Haze.

It is End-Neutral

Is it? Is the god metal used up in the process of creating Haze? If yes then it's end-positive. If the investiture comes from energy (heat) alone than it would likely be end-positive (the investiture itself is used up but comes from external source, heat).

 

11 hours ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

That's all for me, I was going to make one for Whimsy and Valor as well, but it's already 1 30 am and it's a school night.

That was simply amazing. Congrats on that one (except for the binary planet's density which is still triggering me and I've returned to it like 3 times writing more about it). Fun read and fun ideas, very fun to nitpick and discuss in more details. So good. I really love it.