Has Adolin Used Stormlight(Maybe Spoilers)?

[Dun Sphere]

The below quote is from Pg. 408 of WoR where Adolin has been trying to throw his shardblade into a stone rock formation.

 

"It sank up to its hilt into the stone of the rock formation. Adolin let out the breath he had been holding."

 

I might be reading too much into this, but it strikes me that Adolin may have sucked in stormlight, before he threw the blade that final time.  

[Left]

Hmmmmmmmm. Yeah, that's a very large stretch. More like trying to do the splits across the grand canyon. Mentioning breath doesn't a radiant make. Nor an awakener. For that matter.

Sorry to smash that. Specially since youre new and all.

Now Adolin is probably going to become a radiant, or at least a lot of us think that, but THIS scene wouldn't be evidence.

[maxal]

Probably not, but there is something going on with Adolin. Too many things do not add up.

 

1) In his first duel, he falls to the Thrill and performs a brutal beatdown at the end of which he feels drained even though it lasted only a few minutes. Now, if we really wanted to read too much into it, we could relate it to Kal feeling drained after using stormlight... but it is a far far far stretch.

 

2) He looses the Thrill.

 

3) During his fight with Szeth, he suddenly have the instinct to duck. The way it is written could lead us to believe he actually heard something tell him to "DUCK" or it is he really has good instincts...

 

4) Dalinar calls him a "genius with a blade". We know half of Kal's talent comes from his bound, so if Adolin really that good on his own or is it something else?

 

5) At the end, he goes bazooka and kills Sadeas in a brutal way, him who had, so far, managed to keep himself under control.

 

As for the blade thing, I recall Dalinar mentioning how hard it was to will a blade to stay after releasing it. Throwing it must be hard, very hard, which we could interpret as "Adolin has a strong connection with his blade". However, I personally read the blade scene as Adolin being nervous, stressed and probably exhausted since he stayed up all night not managing to summon enough concentration to make it work.

[Aleksiel]

Adolin snapped, he'll be an Allomancer!

[maxal]

Adolin snapped, he'll be an Allomancer!

 

Well considering the rarity of metals on Roshar, it wouldn't change much if it were the case

[Aleksiel]

Well considering the rarity of metals on Roshar, it wouldn't change much if it were the case

 

He'll steal some from Hoid 

[Zea mays]

Well considering the rarity of metals on Roshar, it wouldn't change much if it were the case

Are metals rare on Roshar? I got the impression anyone who has a soulcaster can make as much metal as they like (see Rysn's interlude in WoK). Now, take a mistborn and give them a soulcaster/transformation sure powers...

[maxal]

Are metals rare on Roshar? I got the impression anyone who has a soulcaster can make as much metal as they like (see Rysn's interlude in WoK). Now, take a mistborn and give them a soulcaster/transformation sure powers...

 

Yeah but Soulcasters are very rare and only a few selected Ardents are trained to use them.....

[kaellok]

Are metals rare on Roshar? I got the impression anyone who has a soulcaster can make as much metal as they like (see Rysn's interlude in WoK). Now, take a mistborn and give them a soulcaster/transformation sure powers...

Metal seems to be uncommon, rather than rare.  Think of the difference between two gemstones on Earth: jade (uncommon but plentiful) and sapphires (very uncommon, or rare, and used mostly for ornamentation.)

 

It's also quite likely that there is plenty of metals in the earth just waiting to be mined, but due to Highstorms in the east and religious prohibitions in the west (Shinovar), the prospect of mining for metal is a daunting one; when you add Soulcasters into the mix, there's even less reason to throw away lives and resources to make the attempts.

 

Back on topic, I'm increasingly becoming a fan of Adolin 'reviving' the Shardblade that he holds.  I don't necessarily think that that is very likely, but I would very much like to see this be his path to Radianthood (assuming that it happens.)  And, honestly, I think it could prove very interesting and illuminating if he were able to revive his Blade without becoming a Radiant in the process. 

Edited July 21, 2014 by kaellok

[kari-no-sugata]

Back on topic, I'm increasingly becoming a fan of Adolin 'reviving' the Shardblade that he holds.  I don't necessarily think that that is very likely, but I would very much like to see this be his path to Radianthood (assuming that it happens.)  And, honestly, I think it could prove very interesting and illuminating if he were able to revive his Blade without becoming a Radiant in the process. 

 

The whole Radiant to spren bonding process is a bit murky currently but I feel that if Adolin were able to revive the spren in his Blade in such a scenario then the spren would be very appreciative of that and would want to form a bond anyway. Though if they're not compatible then it would likely fail, in which case the spren would have to return to Shadesmar.

 

However, I expect things to be the other way around: that the only way for Adolin to be able to revive the spren in his Blade would be if they're compatible enough to form a bond and achieving that that is what allows the spren to revive. In such a scenario it would then be entirely natural for Adolin to become a Radiant because they've already formed a bond.

 

I agree that if there is an alternative then it would likely be interesting and insightful. However, I see two potential problems with that: it could feel like a "Deus ex machina" if Adolin achieves it by accident and the obvious question would be "can Adolin revive all spren blades then?" which basically turns him into a Spren Necromancer. Seems a bit too radical to me. I think if reviving spren is going to be possible its going to have to be really really difficult to repeat otherwise all existing Blade holders will be doing it by the end of the series.

[Delightful]

 

 

4) Dalinar calls him a "genius with a blade". We know half of Kal's talent comes from his bound

Actually, it's very clear in WoK that Stormlight does not grant skill. It grants speed and strength and better reflexes, but it can only perfect what is already there. Kaladin trained for years, nearly killed himself working so hard with the spear in Amaram's army. It's hard work and not Stormlight that makes Kaladin a master spearman.

Seems like Adolin is simply crazy-talented, much like Dalinar was in his youth (which I believe Sadeas may have noted at some point too).

[Aleksiel]

Actually, it's very clear in WoK that Stormlight does not grant skill. It grants speed and strength and better reflexes, but it can only perfect what is already there. Kaladin trained for years, nearly killed himself working so hard with the spear in Amaram's army. It's hard work and not Stormlight that makes Kaladin a master spearman.

Seems like Adolin is simply crazy-talented, much like Dalinar was in his youth (which I believe Sadeas may have noted at some point too).

 

This is something I have trouble explaining to myself - stormlight is supposed to perfect skills that are already there, but when Kal broke his oaths he lost most of his abilities with the spear. Why? Shouldn't he still had been a skillful spearman instead of struggling to do a simple routine?

[Swimmingly]

Holding Stormlight perfects you. The attention of an Honorspren makes you skillful.

[Aleksiel]

Holding Stormlight perfects you. The attention of an Honorspren makes you skillful.

 

Why would the attention of any spren boost someone? The bond has started forming before the words are spoken, but I see no reason to obtain skill just because an honorspren is zipping around you waiting for you to swear an Oath.

[Swimmingly]

You see no reason that a magical being slowly forming a bond with your soul might have effects such as giving you an instinctive skill for fighting.

If you look at it another way, perhaps Kaladin is reasonably skilful with a spear on his own, but his supernatural sense of it comes from Syl. Add the fact that he's got active Seasonal Depressive Disorder, has been left out of the most important military mission in a decade, where most of his friends are, feels guilty for possibly killing Syl, is essentially on mild Stormlight withdrawal, and is practicing while wounded in chilly rain pretty much adds up to him feeling crap about abilities that are still above average.

[hoser]

Kaladin, even as a child and long before Syl came along, has unreasonable skill with a staff and is exceptionally honorable. 

Adolin was a superbly talented duelist, has been exceptionally honorable and bonded a Rhyshadium. 

 

Is it possible that the investiture of Roshar has ways of rewarding honorable behavior even before a spren comes along (in addition to Rhyshadium)?

[maxal]

Actually, it's very clear in WoK that Stormlight does not grant skill. It grants speed and strength and better reflexes, but it can only perfect what is already there. Kaladin trained for years, nearly killed himself working so hard with the spear in Amaram's army. It's hard work and not Stormlight that makes Kaladin a master spearman.

Seems like Adolin is simply crazy-talented, much like Dalinar was in his youth (which I believe Sadeas may have noted at some point too).

 

Adolin is more talented than Dalinar/Galivar. We have a few hints his skill is quite abnormal. For one, he started training much earlier than most (6 years old against 10 being the average age). For second, he won his shardblade as an inexperienced teenager in a world where winning shardblades is supposed to be very hard. Heck, Sadeas who is, by Dalinar's account, a superb swordsman, never managed, in the last thirty years or so, to win one for himself. For third, Renarin remarks Adolin is a special case. For fourth, he did bound A Rhysadium while still being a teenager, shortly after winning his blade.

 

So either he is just crazy-talented for the sword or it is something else.

 

As for Kal, when he looses his bound, he turns out being nothing more than an averages spearman. We know his bound has been forming since childhood, so it is likely his skill has been boosted.

[maxal]

Why would the attention of any spren boost someone? The bond has started forming before the words are spoken, but I see no reason to obtain skill just because an honorspren is zipping around you waiting for you to swear an Oath.

 

Don't we have a WoB on that stating the Nahel bound increases skill in certain areas?

[king of nowhere]

This is something I have trouble explaining to myself - stormlight is supposed to perfect skills that are already there, but when Kal broke his oaths he lost most of his abilities with the spear. Why? Shouldn't he still had been a skillful spearman instead of struggling to do a simple routine?

 

I realy don't think anyone can claim kaladin lost his skill after losing stormlight.

Even without his bond to syl, he still manages to kill a chasmfiend alone and with a shardblade. if you remember back in the hunt scene in twok, it took three full shardbearers to kill one, and it was still pretty risky, as the original plan woulldd have been to pelt the chasmfiend with arrows before engaging in melee.

So, kaladin killing the chasmfiend that way (and mind you that he was probably also a bit tired from a day of marching) proves he's still an exceptional warrior. simply, he got used to have a bit of stormlight in him, and that make him feel slower and less coordinated.

remember, people's perception don't have much to do with absolute values, but with changing. People performing high-skill tasks will use their average level as a personal reference for what their skill is supposed to be, and if they lose that, they suddenly feel weak and incompetent. not because they are, but because they were used to their high standard.

I know it firsthand. I used to be a very strong chessplayer when I was younger. Now, everytime I play chess, my comment on it generally goes as "I suck!" "I forgot how to play this game" "I'd say I played like an animal, but animals would be offended by that" "You could have taken a drunkard from the street and put him in my place, he would have played better". Those are all real comments I made in recent years to people asking me how I did in a chess match (not 100% sure I actually uttered the 4th one, but i certainly thought it). You'd think I was a totally crappy chessplayer, but actually I am still ranked 200th in italy, 20000th in the world, I still play in the master league in the finnish championship and the last year I played in italy I did ok in the second division. But, I just know that I used to be stronger. I keep seeing how much better I could have played. I see all the missed chances as a failure. Even worse, the "ideal myself" I have for reference is much stronger than I had ever actually been: this imaginary self that I compare myself to has all the raw strenght that I had in my teens, but with the experience and knowledge that I have now. He is sensibly stronger than I was even in my golden period. And that is the kind of performance that I came to consider "normal". No wonder every time I sit in front of a chessboard I feel totally inadequate.

EDIT: 1) all my chessplaying friends experience the same and tend to make the same dismissive remarks on their skills, including one who's even better than me. I'm not an isolated case. in fact, the vast majority feels like me. EDIT2: and the only people I know that do not feel like crap are fast-growing youngsters who consistently play the last tournament better than the one before. It again has to do with perception: they consider their "normal" the skill they had a few months prior, which is already significantly lower than the skill they have right now.

2) I have to say that, despite the feeling that I have a sort of block in my mind preventing me from reaching my potential I still enjoy the game much EDIT/

If you look for a more mundane example, as yourself if 20000$ per year is a good salary. an immigrant from a poor country used to living with one tenth of that amount will say that it is an incredible whealt. a rich guy used to totaling several millions per years will instead feel starving poor and won't be able to understand how to survive with that money. and a middle class guy who always earned that much will feel that he has exactly what he needs and he's neither rich nor poor.

 

So, all this long  digression to say that, no matter how kaladin feels about losing stormlight, he's still an incredibly skilled warrior. just slightly less incredibly skilled than he was before.

And, for the personal example aforementioned, I think his reaction of feeling like he lost all his skill is totally realistic. I guess brandon must have felt like that sometimes too.

Edited July 21, 2014 by king of nowhere

[maxal]

I realy don't think anyone can claim kaladin lost his skill after losing stormlight.

Even without his bond to syl, he still manages to kill a chasmfiend alone and with a shardblade. if you remember back in the hunt scene in twok, it took three full shardbearers to kill one, and it was still pretty risky, as the original plan woulldd have been to pelt the chasmfiend with arrows before engaging in melee.

So, kaladin killing the chasmfiend that way (and mind you that he was probably also a bit tired from a day of marching) proves he's still an exceptional warrior. simply, he got used to have a bit of stormlight in him, and that make him feel slower and less coordinated.

 

I hated the scene where Kaladin single-handed killed a chasmfield. It is improbable and I did not buy it. I was ready to endorse stormlight sucking Kal kicking everyone's butt, but injured untrained with a sword Kaladin killing a fifty foot monster? No. That was just too much for me. Even Dalinar would not have managed and Dalinar was the ultimate warrior.

 

And during the scene where he practiced with his spear, he was clumsy. I understand your point it may just be a matter of perception, but it is not how I read it. I really got the feeling he went from supernatural to ordinary and I think we do have a WoB somewhere on that specific subject. Anyhow, I am willing to give this one the benefit of a doubt.

[Aleksiel]

Don't we have a WoB on that stating the Nahel bound increases skill in certain areas?

 

I actually there's something within these lines (the passive abilities like Memory and Jasnah's sense of orientation). But there was no bond when Kal became a master spearman after Tien's death, wasn't it?

 

.....

 

I was so focused on Kal complaining he couldn't do a simple routine, I completely forgot he fought a chasmfiend without the bond. That actually makes it even stranger to me how Kal afterwards couldn't even properly hold his weapon. I see your point and swimmingly's too, however I guess I just need to think about some more, because right now I'm in some 'yeah, but' mind set.

 

I felt the same way in WoK when the bridgemen held their bridge during the Tower. They did too well for two dozens barely trained men (imo), but then I read about the squire-bond and that solved my issue on the matter. 

[king of nowhere]

I hated the scene where Kaladin single-handed killed a chasmfield. It is improbable and I did not buy it. I was ready to endorse stormlight sucking Kal kicking everyone's butt, but injured untrained with a sword Kaladin killing a fifty foot monster? No. That was just too much for me. Even Dalinar would not have managed and Dalinar was the ultimate warrior.

 

And during the scene where he practiced with his spear, he was clumsy. I understand your point it may just be a matter of perception, but it is not how I read it. I really got the feeling he went from supernatural to ordinary and I think we do have a WoB somewhere on that specific subject. Anyhow, I am willing to give this one the benefit of a doubt.

Well, I partialy agree with you that killing a chasmfiend was improbable, especially since kaladin was unpracticed with the sword. I wouldn't say dalinar couldn't have done it, however. he had much troubles with the other chasmfiend, but he had to protect elokar in that case, and the cramped confines of a chasm actually limit the mobility of the chasmfiend and gives some advantage to the human. Well, kaladin managed to hold his own for a while, and that certainly too skill cause a regular human would have been snatched and eaten in a few seconds. the killing blow was more like a desperate gamble that succeeded. It would have been more realistic if the chasmfiend had retreated after getting sliced a couple times - most real predators won't risk debilitating injury to kill a small prey.

 

Anyway, even if we accept that kaladin lost a measure of skill, I don't think anyone would have bought that he became "average". I doubt the breaking of the bond would nullify the four years when he trained extra hard because he had failed to protect his brother.

[Swimmingly]

Plus, the thing was stupid enough to try eating him Shardblade-first, and Pattern could have done some shenanigans like telescoping into it's brain as it bit.

[maxal]

I actually there's something within these lines (the passive abilities like Memory and Jasnah's sense of orientation). But there was no bond when Kal became a master spearman after Tien's death, wasn't it?

 

Actually there was. At the end of WoR, Kaladin realizes Syl has been with him for longer then he initially thought. We also have quotes in WoK where he remembers the strange windspren being with him, on the plains, with Amaram's army. He also comments to Szeth on how he is not new to "this" as he has been at it since childhood. Personally, I believe that when he picked up the staff against those village boys in WoK, the bond was already starting to develop and granted him some unseen advantage. How else could a boy how has NEVER held a staff be able to defeat so soundly other boys used to fight with it?

 

Gee, I have just realized I have been spelling bond "bound". *Sigh*. Stupid French

 

 

I felt the same way in WoK when the bridgemen held their bridge during the Tower. They did too well for two dozens barely trained men (imo), but then I read about the squire-bond and that solved my issue on the matter. 

 

Strange how this scene never bothered me. Now that you mention it though, it was indeed quite strange. Although we could theorized they did not have to hold it very long and that Adolin and the Cobalt guard were actually there helping them. Brandon just did not put too much emphasis on *that*. We could also say the Parshendi were probably tired whereas the bridgemen were more rested (they had seated for a long while during the battle).

 

 

 

Anyway, even if we accept that kaladin lost a measure of skill, I don't think anyone would have bought that he became "average". I doubt the breaking of the bond would nullify the four years when he trained extra hard because he had failed to protect his brother.

 

I do not have the quote, but isn't it how Kaladin described it himself?

[Edgedancer]

I hated the scene where Kaladin single-handed killed a chasmfield. It is improbable and I did not buy it. I was ready to endorse stormlight sucking Kal kicking everyone's butt, but injured untrained with a sword Kaladin killing a fifty foot monster? No. That was just too much for me. Even Dalinar would not have managed and Dalinar was the ultimate warrior.

 

And during the scene where he practiced with his spear, he was clumsy. I understand your point it may just be a matter of perception, but it is not how I read it. I really got the feeling he went from supernatural to ordinary and I think we do have a WoB somewhere on that specific subject. Anyhow, I am willing to give this one the benefit of a doubt.

To be fair on the Chasmfiend fight, not only did Shallan save him with her illusions, actually killing the thing involved him being swallowed, which is so risky that no one would do it on purpose. So the kill doesn´t come from skill alone. Your milage might vary if that is better or worse.

 

He certainly was clumsy and Syl said that the bond made Kal better but the weather, his depression, the Stormlight-withdrawel his hurt leg, him standing in ankle(?) high water and just having lost whatever kind of sixth-sense he had up unitl that point is more then enough to worsen his skill even further then it would be normally