Has Adolin Used Stormlight(Maybe Spoilers)?

[Delightful]

Actually there was. At the end of WoR, Kaladin realizes Syl has been with him for longer then he initially thought. We also have quotes in WoK where he remembers the strange windspren being with him, on the plains, with Amaram's army. He also comments to Szeth on how he is not new to "this" as he has been at it since childhood. Personally, I believe that when he picked up the staff against those village boys in WoK, the bond was already starting to develop and granted him some unseen advantage. How else could a boy how has NEVER held a staff be able to defeat so soundly other boys used to fight with it?

 

There could be an element of natural skill here - some people are just a little more talented than others at certain things, and then practise builds upon that, but the Nahel bond makes things confusing.

Also, if he and Adolin both had some kind of bond from childhood, I'm starting to wonder if half the population of Roshar are going to end up as KR.

I might just sit on the fence here for now. Not sure what to think.

[Guest]

To be fair on the Chasmfiend fight, not only did Shallan save him with her illusions, actually killing the thing involved him being swallowed, which is so risky that no one would do it on purpose. So the kill doesn´t come from skill alone. Your milage might vary if that is better or worse.

 

He certainly was clumsy and Syl said that the bond made Kal better but the weather, his depression, the Stormlight-withdrawel his hurt leg, him standing in ankle(?) high water and just having lost whatever kind of sixth-sense he had up unitl that point is more then enough to worsen his skill even further then it would be normally

 

Yeah it is true Kaladin was not at his top level. However, I would really like to know how much of his skill is his and how much is the bond.... I hope Brandon will elaborate more on this and not just for Kaladin, for all the other Radiants.

 

 

There could be an element of natural skill here - some people are just a little more talented than others at certain things, and then practise builds upon that, but the Nahel bond makes things confusing.

Also, if he and Adolin both had some kind of bond from childhood, I'm starting to wonder if half the population of Roshar are going to end up as KR.

I might just sit on the fence here for now. Not sure what to think.

 

It could be some natural skill, but honestly I do not buy the young boy who never held a weapon who ends up being so skilled he just knows how to wield a weapon.... However, I would buy it if the bond was involved.

 

To be fair, I do not think Adolin currently has a bond of any sort. Although he may be bonding with his shardblade in a way no one else has managed to before. It could explain some of is reflexes, but most of his skill is probably his. Genetics. I can buy that. His father, his uncle and probably his grand-fathers on both sides, most likely his cousin as well are skilled fighters. He just turned out being born with slightly more skill then they.

 

Did someone ever asked Brandon if there currently is at least one spren per order trying to bond a human? We know 7 orders do (I am including Eshonai's comet-like spren). What of the remaining three?

Edited July 22, 2014 by maxal

[Prince of Ravens he/him]

My wild guess is that Adolin will turn out to be Willshaper.

“And now, if there was an uncut gem among the Radiance, it was the Willshapers; for though enterprising, they were erratic, and Invia wrote of them, 'capricious, frustrating, unreliable,' as taking it for granted that others would agree; this may have been an intolerant view, as often Invia expressed, for this order was said to be most varied, inconsistent in temperament save for a general love of adventure, novelty, or oddity.”
 
-There are no known Willshapers at the moment. Which is not evidence but still supports that hypothesis.
-The way Adolin fought his duels. You can say that it was varied, inconsistent and erratic.
-Biggest clue that he will turn Radiant after all is that he no longer feels Thrill.
-He likes fashon which is just other way of saying he likes novelty.
-Way he explains why he finds Shallan attractive is that she is different or oddity among Alethi.
-His talks with a sword and refusal to name it(she/he?) ... So he would get used Spren. That could be useful.

[Guest]

My wild guess is that Adolin will turn out to be Willshaper.

“And now, if there was an uncut gem among the Radiance, it was the Willshapers; for though enterprising, they were erratic, and Invia wrote of them, 'capricious, frustrating, unreliable,' as taking it for granted that others would agree; this may have been an intolerant view, as often Invia expressed, for this order was said to be most varied, inconsistent in temperament save for a general love of adventure, novelty, or oddity.”

 

-There are no known Willshapers at the moment. Which is not evidence but still supports that hypothesis.

-The way Adolin fought his duels. You can say that it was varied, inconsistent and erratic.

-Biggest clue that he will turn Radiant after all is that he no longer feels Thrill.

-He likes fashon which is just other way of saying he likes novelty.

-Way he explains why he finds Shallan attractive is that she is different or oddity among Alethi.

-His talks with a sword and refusal to name it(she/he?) ... So he would get used Spren. That could be useful.

 

The Willshaper most probably is Eshonai who was refered to as the Explorer on the back of WoK. She does have a spren, she has a flashback book (and so far all planed flashback are Radiants) so I'd say it is nearly canon.

 

Apart from that, I do not think the Willshapers are a perfect match for Adolin. He does not strike me as someone who "love the adventure", quite the opposite. He claims in WoK he would be contented to simply lounge, drink, court girls and duel all day. He hates hunting and he complained the whole time they went after the chasmfield in WoK, so much for loving adventure. I agree he has grown up quite a bit since, but the fact remains that Adolin true passion is dueling, the art of fighting, the dance around ones opponent in a fair balanced fight. He obviously likes competition, he is brash, impulsive and many have qualified him as a hothead.

 

He fits much better with the Dustbringer who are a brave foolhardy bunch probably always in the heat of the battle. The surge of abrasion would turn him into a superb swordsman.

[Prince of Ravens he/him]

Could be. But Adolin could turn out to be even Stoneward for all we know. Hints are too esoteric for more concrete  stuff.

[Firiel she/her]

I personally do think that Adolin has used Stormlight, particularly because it seems that the one is less likely to feel the Thrill when use Stormlight or are somehow connected to Radiants.  Sanderson specifically states that Adolin was not feeling the Thrill while Eshonai was.

 

But I think he uses Stormlight as a Squire, not as a Radiant.  I'm pretty much alone in that opinion, but I'll stick to it until I see strong evidence otherwise because I'm fond of that idea from a narrative perspective.

[Guest]

I personally do think that Adolin has used Stormlight, particularly because it seems that the one is less likely to feel the Thrill when use Stormlight or are somehow connected to Radiants.  Sanderson specifically states that Adolin was not feeling the Thrill while Eshonai was.

 

But I think he uses Stormlight as a Squire, not as a Radiant.  I'm pretty much alone in that opinion, but I'll stick to it until I see strong evidence otherwise because I'm fond of that idea from a narrative perspective.

 

It is impossible for Adolin to have used stormlight as a squire at this point in the story. The only Radiant advanced enough so far to have squires is Kaladin and I think we can agree Adolin is not Kaladin's squire

 

Besides, to be a squire, I believe you must want to follow the said Radiant, to emulate him and I just do not see Adolin doing this with any known Radiant. There's Dalinar that Adolin admires so much, but he sort of detached himself from him by going against everything Dalinar ever tried to teach him by killing Sadeas.

 

If Adolin indeed used stormlight, it is on his own, but I do not think he did so far.  I wonder why it is he lost the Thrill though.... It took years of studying the Ways of Kings, years spent becoming more and more pious for Dalinar to start getting the visions and to lose the Thrill. He started bonding the Stormfather before he lost it. Adolin must have done something to lose it as well. He was feeling it in the beginning of WoR. Could it be because of Kaladin? Because he overcome his distrust of him and decided to turn him into a friend? Because he stayed in prison for him? Because he gave shards to a darkeyes against all odds?

[Dun Sphere]

I just finished with the reread of both books and I am even more convinced that Adolin may have actually used stormlight without realizing it and is well on his way to becoming a Radiant. The Diagram had mentioned keeping the Raidants to be away from stressful situations. Adolin has been in a number of those since Sadeas betrayal. The loss of the thrill to me is a definite indicator and I may really be going out on a limb here, but I may be so bold as to say that he is on his way to becoming a skybreaker. That is why he kills Sadeas after he "snaps" even though he isn't following the law(as we know it), he does what makes logical sense to him. 

 

**Note** I know that Adolin's actions throughout the books do not line up with the skybreakers, but that is just how i feel. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by Dun Sphere

[Moogle]

The loss of the thrill to me is a definite indicator and I may really be going out on a limb here, but I may be so bold as to say that he is on his way to becoming a skybreaker. That is why he kills Sadeas after he "snaps" even though he isn't following the law(as we know it), he does what makes logical sense to him. 

 

**Note** I know that Adolin's actions throughout the books do not line up with the skybreakers, but that is just how i feel. 

 

It's a common theory, but we know that the Skybreakers would disapprove of what Adolin did, as it was illegal. WoB:

Q:  Are there Radiant orders that would take someone like Adolin even after what he does at the end of Words of Radiant?

A:  I am not going to say whether or not Adolin will become a Knights Radiant, but yes, there are several orders that would be very happy with what he did.

Q:  Like the Skybreakers or Dustbringers?

A:  The Skybreakers would probably not want him because he broke a law, but there are other orders that would think he completely did the right thing and be very happy with him.

 

Q:  Like the Dustbringers?

A:  (Didn't say anything but looked up at him, smiled and half nodded)

...

Q:  What would the Willshapers think about Adolin killing Sadeas?

A:  The Willshapers would probably be ok with that.

(source)

 

We just don't know enough to say for sure, though a significant portion of the forums now believe Adolin's becoming a Dustbringer/Willshaper. I lean towards Dustbringer, but I'm not very confident. We're currently missing a Skybreaker, Dustbringer, Willshaper, and Stoneward in our cast, though nothing says we can't have more than one member in each Radiant Order.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Moogle

[Dun Sphere]

It's a common theory, but we know that the Skybreakers would disapprove of what Adolin did, as it was illegal. WoB:

 

 

Thanks for that explanation!

[Guest]

It's a common theory, but we know that the Skybreakers would disapprove of what Adolin did, as it was illegal. WoB:

 

We just don't know enough to say for sure, though a significant portion of the forums now believe Adolin's becoming a Dustbringer/Willshaper. I lean towards Dustbringer, but I'm not very confident. We're currently missing a Skybreaker, Dustbringer, Willshaper, and Stoneward in our cast, though nothing says we can't have more than one member in each Radiant Order.

 

Yeah, but we'll most likely end up getting one main character per order... Redundancy will most likely be acquired through secondary characters. It would be quite frustrating if Brandon decided to introduced 2 extra Windrunners and 3 additional Lightweavers via POV characters without giving us one Dustbringer... Skybreaker, we have Szeth. Willshaper, all evidence points towards Eshonai and our Stoneward is Taln, although he is supposed to be a Herald, but since he is getting a book, my guess is he'll be our main Stoneward. We just don't have anybody inline for Dustbringer and it fits Adolin soooooooo well

[Moogle]

Skybreaker, we have Szeth. Willshaper, all evidence points towards Eshonai and our Stoneward is Taln, although he is supposed to be a Herald, but since he is getting a book, my guess is he'll be our main Stoneward. We just don't have anybody inline for Dustbringer and it fits Adolin soooooooo well

 

I have an issue with saying "Dustbringer fits Adolin" just because we know like... nothing.

 

All we know is that they had issues with the term "Dustbringer" and got angry at people who used it. And we don't even know that because it comes from a book which was not written by a Radiant and which was tampered with by the Vorin church.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Eshonai's book ended up with her not becoming a Radiant and instead Adolin took her place as Willshaper and got a PoV. We'd still get Eshonai's flashbacks (and of course Eshonai symbolically represents the themes of adventuring/exploring so that fits), and we'd still get a Willshaper to focus on.

 

I'm uncertain, though. Brandon has been frustratingly quiet on a lot of SA's magic.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Moogle

[Guest]

I have an issue with saying "Dustbringer fits Adolin" just because we know like... nothing.

 

All we know is that they had issues with the term "Dustbringer" and got angry at people who used it. And we don't even know that because it comes from a book which was not written by a Radiant and which was tampered with by the Vorin church.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Eshonai's book ended up with her not becoming a Radiant and instead Adolin took her place as Willshaper and got a PoV. We'd still get Eshonai's flashbacks (and of course Eshonai symbolically represents the themes of adventuring/exploring so that fits), and we'd still get a Willshaper to focus on.

 

I'm uncertain, though. Brandon has been frustratingly quiet on a lot of SA's magic.

 

Well, we know there are supposed to be brave and obedient. Since I believe the first attribute is what attracts the spren and the second attribute is the safeguard one knight must work on to achieve, I would say Adolin fits Dustbringer quite well.

 

He is brave, never selfish, always first into the battle, never shying away from it even if death is the only outcome...  He does not hesitate to put himself into danger to protect those he loves (Dalinar, Renarin). He fears not for consequences upon himself. He is a reckless fighter who will use all possible tactics, even the riskier ones in order to win. He has a strong innate sense of rightness, but does not care so much for the conventions or the laws.

 

If he does not fit the Dustbringers, than I don't know who will and since we know we have read the POV of a future member of each order.... The choices are quite limited.

 

I don't see him as a Willshaper. He does not strike me as an adventurous person. He seem more like the kind of guy at ease when surrounded by those he loves, not while exploring far away lands like Eshonai.

[Moogle]

Well, we know there are supposed to be brave and obedient. Since I believe the first attribute is what attracts the spren and the second attribute is the safeguard one knight must work on to achieve, I would say Adolin fits Dustbringer quite well.

 

Dalinar, Renarin, and Kaladin also fit 'brave' quite well, and I'm leery of trusting the Divine Attributes. Shallan isn't "honest" (I think that it's just something that Vorinism got wrong), though she is creative. Adolin isn't necessarily obedient, as he constantly questions his father throughout WoK, though it's hard to say if being obedient means you're allowed to do that.

 

Predicting Radiant Orders is hard. We had no idea whether or not Jasnah was an Elsecaller or Truthwatcher for quite some time (even after the Surge names were revealed, it was unclear!), and yet they're very distinct and it's obvious in retrospect that there's no way Jasnah could have been a Truthwatcher. Renarin was predicted to be a Dustbringer because of how 'brave' and 'obedient' he was!

 

As to Adolin's love of adventure: well, he certainly enjoyed Shallan's impropriety, which makes her an "oddity". The Willshapers were also one of the "most varied in temperament", according to Words of Radiance (the in-world version).

 

I'm not sure there's much more to say on the matter except "I'm very confused and cautious on things".

Edited August 1, 2014 by Moogle

[Rybal]

Re: Adolin and the Thrill

Granted, I believe that he is on his way to Radianthood, but I also think that it's possible that the reason he no longer feels the Thrill may have something to do with the Unmade that causes it moving. Through Taravingian, we've seen that they do sometimes move.

 

Re: Kaladin and his skill with a spear

I'm of the camp that thinks that he still has that same skill, regardless of whether he recognizes it. I think that king of nowhere was correct in his comments about comparison. Think of it this way - he suddenly lost a great deal of his strength and speed that he's grown used to. He doesn't move the way that he expects to.

 

Also, with the first instance with the staff, he was going up against other novices too. So it could simply be a higher degree of innate ability rather than any potential bonding.

[Guest]

Dalinar, Renarin, and Kaladin also fit 'brave' quite well, and I'm leery of trusting the Divine Attributes. Shallan isn't "honest" (I think that it's just something that Vorinism got wrong), though she is creative. Adolin isn't necessarily obedient, as he constantly questions his father throughout WoK, though it's hard to say if being obedient means you're allowed to do that.

 

Dalinar, Renarin and Kaladin may have expressed bravery at times, it is not what defines them best. Kaladin is driven by his desire to protect people. To do so, ha acts bravely most of the time, but his main attribute is "protection". Renarin acted bravely on a few occasions, but it is not his driving force either. I dunno, in his case, how the "learned" attribute will come to play, but I guess we'll learn more eventually. Dalinar is also brave, but his driving force is his piousness and his desire to uphold his moral code. In the case of these three characters, the bravery they sometimes express is a side effect of another more powerful first attribute.

 

I believe what defines the Radiant is their first attribute. The second one is not what makes them Radiant, it is what gets them under control. Shallan is very creative, but she has to learn to be honest as her powers coupled with dishonesty would lead to abuses. Dalinar is pious but without guiding, he becomes nothing more than a lunatic. Kaladin is protective, but if he can't learn to lead, what good will it do? Renarin is learned, but as long as he is unwilling to become giving, he is useless.

 

I believe Dustbringers are brave, but need to become obedient in order to prevent them from turning into rogues. Adolin is not overly obedient, but he has the capacity to learn. He has shown it in WoK where despite questioning Dalinar over and over again, he still managed to uphold his father's morality code. As for bravery, Adolin never backs down from a fight, no matter the consequences. Each time Kaladin enters a fight, he does it to protect someone. 4 against 1 duel: he wanted to protect Adolin. Now why didn't Adolin give out the bout to begin with? Because he would not go down without a fight even if it is a doomed one: because he is just that brave.

 

 

Renarin was predicted to be a Dustbringer because of how 'brave' and 'obedient' he was!

 

I don't think Renarin would have fitted well as a Dustbringer. Brave is not his driving force and obedience is a second nature for him. He does not question his father nor does he seem to care about his code. How hard is it to obey to rules you don't mind? There has to be challenge with the second attribute and Renarin sure struggles with being giving as he is so secretive.

 

 

As to Adolin's love of adventure: well, he certainly enjoyed Shallan's impropriety, which makes her an "oddity". The Willshapers were also one of the "most varied in temperament", according to Words of Radiance (the in-world version).

 

I think he likes Shallan because she is not superficial like the other girls he has dated, not because she is odd. She also takes time to listen to him and seem to be interested in what he has to say, unlike the others who cared more about themselves. She does not take him for stupid either while being very smart herself. She is also very pretty and very forward which he must find enticing to say the least. And she makes him laugh.......

 

I don't think it marks him a good prospect for Willshaper. Their powers does not seem inline with Adolin's capacities either.

 

 

I'm not sure there's much more to say on the matter except "I'm very confused and cautious on things".

 

I agree. It could be I'll end being so terribly wrong we'll laugh about it in 2 years time

[kadolin]

Rsyn was brave too. The Great Shell god likes her and she has a cute larkin now, quite special. The whole scene to demonstrate her bravery might be significant, tho we will wait and see. Major or minor might be hard to decide since it might simply be unrevealed yet.

[Guest]

Rsyn was brave too. The Great Shell god likes her and she has a cute larkin now, quite special. The whole scene to demonstrate her bravery might be significant, tho we will wait and see. Major or minor might be hard to decide since it might simply be unrevealed yet.

 

Yes but what defines Rysn most? Bravery or love of adventure as she chose the life of a traveling merchant? One act of bravery does not mean someone is the living embodiment of bravery...

[kadolin]

The bravery stood out because it was out of character for a trader. Adolin & Dalinar's bravery doesnt stand out in contrast since it is part of what they should be, knights and such. The adventure part of the trader does scream Willshaper along with the rarely bestowed little larkin, but we can discuss Rysn elsewhere.

[Guest]

The bravery stood out because it was out of character for a trader. Adolin & Dalinar's bravery doesnt stand out in contrast since it is part of what they should be, knights and such. The adventure part of the trader does scream Willshaper along with the rarely bestowed little larkin, but we can discuss Rysn elsewhere.

 

I do not see bravery as out of character for a trader... I mean don't traders go into foreign abandoned dangerous land trying to score the best deal? Isn't there some kind of bravery embedded within all this?

 

I guess my whole point is to become a Radiant you need to live by your primary attribute. You also need to be trialed and found worthy, meaning you must endure enough hardships and surmount them throughout your first attribute, just like Kal moved from his brokenness by struggling to protect his small bridge crew. Does Rysn embodied bravery enough to attract a spren and is she going to move through her hardships by being even more brave? I am not sure. I really see her more as a Willshaper, with her grass, her chosen career and her larkin.

 

Adolin and Dalinar are knights and thus brave, on the battlefield, but Adolin has shown to be a lot more than that outside the battlefield. He has constantly proven he was brave enough to do what was needed even if it was unpleasant or difficult or even dangerous for him. Telling his father he was going mad and senile, rescuing this prostitute in an enemy warcamp, refusing to be named highprince by Dalinar and struggling to convince him otherwise, not shying away from potentially lethal duels, prison bonding with a darkeye, giving out shards to a darkeye, making friends with a darkeye in a world where he stands so much higher than he are all examples on how Adolin is consistently acting brave, even if it is uncalled for. Brave does not always mean during a fight: standing up to someone or for what you believe is right despite the consequences is also bravery. He was also bold enough to admit having shat three times in his armor (and needing to be whipped out when on the battlefield ) to a girl he has just met. Now if that is not bravery, I dunno what is

 

Dalinar does not do these things. Kaladin does not do these things. Renarin does not do these things. Adolin does which is why I think he is the perfect little Dustbringer.

[kadolin]

Not as much as the bravery you would expect out of a knight. What came to mind was the last few scenes where Rsyn climbed down the cliff to prove herself worthy of the trade, subsequently falling into the waters and breaking her legs somewhat as I recalled. Definitely not what u expect from a trader.

 

While I wont go as far as claiming she is more brave than other characters, I find her bravery unexpected and distinct and I believe more of her story would be revealed. [speculating stormlight healing those legs XD ]

Edited August 2, 2014 by kadolin

[Guest]

Not as much as the bravery you would expect out of a knight. What came to mind was the last few scenes where Rsyn climbed down the cliff to prove herself worthy of the trade, subsequently falling into the waters and breaking her legs somewhat as I recalled. Definitely not what u expect from a trader.

 

While I wont go as far as claiming she is more brave than other characters, I find her bravery unexpected and distinct and I believe more of her story would be revealed.

 

I do not doubt she acted bravely on that scene, but I am more interested in the unexpected aspect of the way she chose to deal with the task at end... Did she jumped to be brave or did she jump to attract attention and strike a deal? I believe she did it for the latest and not the first, meaning she would fit better with the Willshaper. Her action was not triggered by a seer desire to be brave, but by a desire to not deceive her babsk and make it right. She couldn't convince the traders to deal with her, so she went to higher authority. A bold move, but one she felt she needed to do to make her point.

 

The first attribute to the Willshaper is resolute which can be defined by: admirably purposeful, determined, and unwavering. When I look at Rysn's actions I see those things, I see the unwavering aspect as she would not give up, I see the determination, the purposefulness, I see those things before I see bravery. Of course, being resolute does not exclude being brave at times, just like Kal and Dalinar and Renarin have shown bravery, but the first attribute needs to be the driving force for a character. The more I read about it, the more I believe Rysn's driving force is her resolution.

 

Besides, the surge of transportation would be awesome on a trader, I think.

[kadolin]

Definitely interesting to see how her story develops, her oddity with that plant of hers. And perhaps we get to see more KRs than the 10 that represents different orders. Ym was one of the extra KRs that got killed off or maybe he could be healed like Szeth before brain death.

 

The divine attributes are somehow quite vague in determining the KRs, I have trouble with some of the attributes with the existing KRs.

[Guest]

Definitely interesting to see how her story develops, her oddity with that plant of hers. And perhaps we get to see more KRs than the 10 that represents different orders. Ym was one of the extra KRs that got killed off or maybe he could be healed like Szeth before brain death.

 

I think we are going to see more than 10, but we will have 10 main ones. Rysn could be a secondary one as I do not see her becoming a major character unless we have a WoB proving otherwise.

 

 

The divine attributes are somehow quite vague in determining the KRs, I have trouble with some of the attributes with the existing KRs.

 

Which ones? I thought they quite on spot.

[kadolin]

Renarin compared to Learned & Giving; While he is geeky likable & earnest, we have other scholars outshining him, him being giving is not that obvious maybe a tad.

 

Jasnah compared to Wise & Care. Not her definitive traits imho. Nevani wishes more wisdom for jasnah to go with her intelligence.

 

Szeth compared to Just & Confident. I don't quite see this in Szeth as well, perhaps yet to.

 

The rest are acceptable though not entirely spot on

-Kaladin (Protecting & leading) ; spot on

-Lift (Loving  & healing ) ; love for food! healing sure

-Shallan (Honesty & Creativity); creativity for her artistic nature, honesty might be a stretch but perhaps she is on her way to there

-Dalinar (Pious & Guiding) ; acceptable

-Taln (Dependable & resourceful) ; I might wait for more to be revealed