alder24 Posted June 8, 2023 Posted June 8, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, JohnnyKaizen said: Hide contents ZenBossanova (paraphrased) Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things. Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015) Except that he was awakening in RoW? It could be that he has stored up Breath and can use it when he wants to, but this WoB is also from 2015, so it's possible he's hit on something between WoR and RoW. That's a relatively short amount of time for a discovery, but maybe. Yes, Vasher was Awakening in RoW. But we know he has at least 50 Breaths granting him aura recognition and some basic version of life sense - he senses Syl and Kal. He can Awaken multiple sheets of cloth at once, that's even more than 50 Breaths. He can't make Stormlight fuel Awakening, that's too hard to do, something that even Hoid doesn't know how to do. Ironically, Navani would be the closest to achieving that, as she has already swapped intents of Lights, if she knew the Rhythm of Endowment, she could make Endowmentlight out of Stormlight. Spoiler Ilkhan2016 Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across. AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar. /u/mistborn is that right? Brandon Sanderson A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive. To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture. Extesian This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another? Brandon Sanderson Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form. But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases... You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it. Celestial_Blu3 How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019) Spoiler Questioner In the Stormlight Archive series, we have not yet seen Vasher or Vivenna Awakening. Brandon Sanderson You have seen Vivenna Awaken stuff, technically. She is Awakening part of her... what's she doing, she's got her cloak out and stuff. You see <very> glimpses of it in the [third] book, so you technically have seen her. You've also seen Hoid Awakening in the epilogue. So yes, you can Awaken on Roshar, it's just been really subtle so far. Questioner So, does the Investiture just feed off of the... Brandon Sanderson You can make a Returned feed off of Stormlight very easily. You can't use Stormlight to power Awakening very easily, but if you still have those Breaths, you can use them and reclaim them. Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019) Spoiler Questioner With Vasher on Roshar, is he collecting more Breaths, or just burning through slowly what he has collected? Brandon Sanderson He can use Stormlight instead. That's why he came to Roshar. Questioner Did he come voluntarily? Brandon Sanderson He came voluntarily because he was tired of sucking souls. Roshar is where he decided to "retire." Questioner How many Breaths <does he have now>? Brandon Sanderson He has the same number that he left with. Which, there are clues to what level of Heightening he at least has, in the books. Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016) Spoiler Questioner Is it possible to turn Breaths into... how does Awakening work on Roshar and Shadesmar? Brandon Sanderson You can still use it normally, as you would expect it, as the magic works. People are trying to figure out how to turn one type of Investiture into another, and it it is harder than it seems. They haven't cracked it yet. Questioner So they always have to bring their own form of Investiture? Brandon Sanderson A Returned can feed off of other Investiture, just like Nightblood can. One of the reasons to move to Roshar is: it's easier to get Stormlight than it is Breaths. Questioner That makes sense why Zahel, then. Brandon Sanderson That explains Zahel, right. FanX 2021 (Sept. 18, 2021) Edit: 2 hours ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: I wonder if Vasher's method of consuming stormlight could be the boon for the curse of leaving Nightblood behind. This would fit with the "Seth could get access to it" since he doesn't have a boon yet. I think there is a simpler way for Vasher to draw in Stormlight, hum its Rhythm, RoW ch 97: Quote This stumped her. She played the plates she’d created, indulging in their resonant tones. She put Voidlight spheres into her arm sheath and listened until she could hum that tone. She was delighted when—after hours of concerted practice—she could draw Voidlight out with a touch, like the Fused could do. Humans could sing the correct tones. Humans could hear the music of Roshar. Her ancestors might have been aliens to this world, but she was its child. He can likely replicate that with a perfect pitch recognition and a sphere of Stormlight. For Szeth, who belongs to Roshar, it would be easier to hear Rhythms without Breaths. Edited June 8, 2023 by alder24 1
Underwater_Worldhopper he/him Posted June 11, 2023 Posted June 11, 2023 On 6/8/2023 at 10:53 PM, alder24 said: Ironically, Navani would be the closest to achieving that, as she has already swapped intents of Lights, if she knew the Rhythm of Endowment, she could make Endowmentlight out of Stormlight. Not anymore, not necessarily. All Navani would need at this point is for Vasher to insert a Breath into a sphere and give it to her, whereupon it should act like Giftlight (my working name for Endowment's Light) and Navani can corrupt Stormlight, Voidlight or Lifelight with Endowment's Intent. However, Navani may be unable to hear Endowment's Rhythm, since it isn't native to Roshar. However, a certain Zahel is kicking around Urithiru, would learn about Navani's achievement, is native to Nalthis and thus could hear the Rhythm of Endowment, already has the Breaths and so could perform the experiment himself, and likely has enough Heightenings to give him perfect pitch. So, one way or another, I feel that the key to corrupting Stormlight into Awakenable Giftlight will become available soon.
IlstrawberrySeed Posted June 12, 2023 Posted June 12, 2023 On 6/8/2023 at 1:15 PM, alder24 said: Maybe but I doubt it. Would he consider it a mistake then? And what is the boon and what is the curse? I'm arguing that leaving Nightblood behind is the boon. It just might be that Nalthis magic is so grabby that it will reach to close sources of investiture and use them to power itself. Nightblood has already done that, when Szeth killed with him in Pure Lake. Nightblood draws the light from spheres in Szeth's pouch, not just from his body. And because Nightblood is artificial Returned, it's not a big of a stretch to say a Divine Breath can do the same, reach outside of the body and grab investiture to feed itself. However that seems too easy, and WoBs say it shouldn't be that easy. Hide contents Questioner Would Vasher be able to use Stormlight in the same way that he can get Breath? Brandon Sanderson That would not be immediately easy, but Stormlight could feed Nightblood. Questioner Which is why Szeth can wield Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson Eh, you'll have to see if but yes. That could theoretically happen. You can use most of the magics on most of the planets to fuel the other magics, if you know how to do it, it is not easy. Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) Hide contents R.E. (paraphrased) Does Vasher have a different way of getting access to Stormlight than everyone else? Given that he has no spren, no honorblade and he isn't a squire? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes. He can use Stormlight to stay alive, but it doesn't let him Surgebind. R.E. (paraphrased) Could Szeth get access to this method? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes R.E. (paraphrased) And use it to fuel Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes he could. R.E. (paraphrased) Can you tell me what that method is? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) *smiles* Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 18, 2017) Hide contents Ilkhan2016 Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across. AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar. /u/mistborn is that right? Brandon Sanderson A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive. To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture. Extesian This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another? Brandon Sanderson Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form. But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases... You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it. Celestial_Blu3 How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB? Brandon Sanderson That's a RAFO, I'm afraid. General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019) The problem with Nightwatcher giving him that ability is it is supposed to be easy for him to achieve, he went to Roshar because he knew he can feed with Stormlight. So he should already have this ability before coming to Roshar. Relaying on Nightwatcher isn't that safe if you have limited amounts of Breaths and likely don't want to return to Nalthis or maybe even can't. Hide contents Questioner With Warbreaker and Stormlight Archive, Vasher and Zahel. How does that transition occur? Brandon Sanderson He went to Roshar because he knew ahead of time, that you could get Stormlight, and how easy it was. So he made his way there because he was tired of sucking people's souls to stay alive. Questioner How did he know? Brandon Sanderson He, as part of a group of scholars, stumbled upon the nature of worldhopping long ago. Questioner Could he be the same group of scholars as Jasnah? Brandon Sanderson No, it's a group of scholars on Nalthis who were studying magic, Investiture, and stumbled upon the means by which you transition into the Cognitive Realm. So, he actually had experience with Shardblades before, and that was part of how he built... well, he was part of it, but really... Questioner So, is Nightblood kind of like a Shardblade? Is a Shardblade? Brandon Sanderson Nightblood is an attempt to make a Shardblade using a different magic. And it turned out poorly. Questioner Speaking of Nightblood, how did that transition from Nalthis? Brandon Sanderson I have not answered that yet. Eventually, you will find out how they ended up on Roshar. Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016) Likely but we don't even know why they split and how she would do that. She doesn't get directly involved outside the Valley. On 6/8/2023 at 1:43 PM, robardin said: Ah, this one, right? Is his having left Nightblood with the Nightwatcher (if that is what happened) really a "curse" though? Seems like Vasher's pretty glad to be free of the burden. As for using Stormlight to stay alive, I guess not having another Returned around on Roshar to verify, we don't know if that's just how the Investiture cost of a Returned works (which is my assumption), or if he would in fact need a Cultivation-twiddled converter to use it as Breath (the way that Lift metabolizes, produces, and operates on Lifelight instead of breathing in Stormlight). However, we do have a WoB that Zahel has tried Awakening with Stormlight and been unsuccessful, so if it was a "Stormlight-to-Breath conversion ability" he got as a boon, you'd think he would be able to manage it. (The tricks he does with the laundry while sparring with Kaladin in RoW must have been done with a stash of actual Breath he has on him, similar to Vivenna's using her cloak in combat in Oathbringer.) I didn't realize he was so happy to be apart from nightblood, which kindof throws that theory out of the window, the window, the second story window.
+robardin he/him Posted June 12, 2023 Posted June 12, 2023 41 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: I didn't realize [Vasher/Zahel] was so happy to be apart from nightblood, which kindof throws that theory out of the window, the window, the second story window. Well, I guess he doesn't say so explicitly, but by RoW he clearly knows Szeth has it and is "imprisoned" in Urithiru (to the extent that someone bearing Nightblood can be held in a cell - i.e., he was ordered to stay there by Dalinar, who holds his Third Ideal), and not only makes no effort to retrieve NB but doesn't even go to see/talk to it (although Nightblood does talk to Szeth about "Vasher" several times). And then in conversing with Kaladin about what he should do after stepping away from the battlefield, when Kal asks him why he'd joined the ardents, he replied, "Because I learned that conflict would find men no matter how hard I tried." "But you couldn't give up the sword," Kaladin said. "Oh, I gave it up. I let go. Best mistake I ever made." Kaladin meant "give up the sword" as in "retiring from combat", but I'm pretty sure Zahel/Vasher responded with Nightblood in mind.
Argenti he/him Posted June 14, 2023 Posted June 14, 2023 On 6/12/2023 at 4:13 PM, IlstrawberrySeed said: the window, the window, the second story window. HIGH LOW, LOW HIGH,THROOW IT OUT THE WINDOW.
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