What is Nightblood Made of?

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

I realize that Nightblood is currently on Roshar, but I put this in Cosmere discussion because it deals with multiple planets. So it felt appropriate.

If you haven't read Warbreaker, Oathbringer, and Rhythm of War, you should wait until you do.

 

Spoiler

I am curious as to exactly what metal (or alloy) Nightblood was made of when they were invested in the first place? I would think that would have some bearing on what they became? Maybe not, but metal is clearly a big part of the Cosmere, and how it interacts with investiture and Shards is significant, so I figure that it should be. Vasher and Shashara were attempting to recreate a shardblade with breathes, and shardblades were/are made of god metal (Tanavastium and/or Koravellium Avastium?..or Koravelliumium? lol). So..did Nightblood become a god metal upon their awakening? If so, did they become Edglium or something else? Is that why something that used to be an ordinary weapon, could kill a Shard's Vessel? Also, for you super sleuths out there, are there any WoB on this? 

 

[Quantus he/him]

Steel (per Warbreaker ch 53) with an aluminum sheath.  And yes, per WOB the type of metal would "most likely" affect the manifestation of it's awakening. And he now has a bunch of Ruin in him, which we think is due to the "Destroy" part of his core Command.

 

 

Quote

 

asmodeus

If the only variable we change, during the creation of Nightblood, is to use a different Allomantically-viable metal (say, iron or bronze instead of steel), but keep everything else constant (the same Breaths, same people doing the same visualization, and whatever other factors were involved), would it have manifested different powers/capabilities?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Most likely.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 3 (Dec. 16, 2021)

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Walin

Does Nightblood contain any of Ruin's Investiture? Like, not atium, but...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, technically; and I'm not wiggling around that, because technically, location in the Cosmere and who belongs to what gets really weird, right? Because Ruin's Investiture is everywhere--but I'm not talking that way. I'm talking the way you actually mean it. 

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

 

 

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

@Quantes So, whether or not Nightblood became a god metal, it has taken on various investitures and that has specific expression in how Nightblood interacts with the Cosmere?

Hmmm...So...

Spoiler

If Nightblood has a good bit of Ruin in its awakened being, or maybe even a direct connection to Ruin, is that why/where its ability to suck up investiture comes from? Also, if any part of that is true..is Nightblood strengthening Ruin, so to speak, as it gorges itself on massive amounts of various investiture? Might that play into Harmony's current problems with balance, beyond Sazed's own issues with the two Shards?

 

[Quantus he/him]

2 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

@Quantes So, whether or not Nightblood became a god metal, it has taken on various investitures and that has specific expression in how Nightblood interacts with the Cosmere?

Hmmm...So...

  Hide contents

If Nightblood has a good bit of Ruin in its awakened being, or maybe even a direct connection to Ruin, is that why/where its ability to suck up investiture comes from? Also, if any part of that is true..is Nightblood strengthening Ruin, so to speak, as it gorges itself on massive amounts of various investiture? Might that play into Harmony's current problems with balance, beyond Sazed's own issues with the two Shards?

 

That's the theory, more or less.  Ruin cant really get stronger through a being using it's Investiture, any more than Endowment has to worry about giving away too many Breaths.  Nightblood is getting stronger over time, and the black smoke is confirmed to be Investiture leaking out because he's overstuffed (but any such leakage returns to the Spiritual realm and one or more shards). Personally Im not really sure there's actual metal (even godmetal) in there so much as very hostile Perpendicularity, a black hole scar in reality with a handle attached.  

Edited June 7, 2023 by Quantus

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

2 hours ago, Quantus said:

Personally Im not really sure there's actual metal (even godmetal) in there so much as very hostile Perpendicularity, a black hole scar in reality with a handle attached. 

well isn't that a whole other kind of terrifying, that I hadn't considered.

[Leuthie]

43 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

well isn't that a whole other kind of terrifying, that I hadn't considered.

It's still steel. All of the weirdness with Investiture in Nightblood is because it's just steel.

[Quantus he/him]

1 hour ago, Leuthie said:

It's still steel. All of the weirdness with Investiture in Nightblood is because it's just steel.

It certainly still was in Warbreaker.  It seems to have evolved since then. It's effects are different now, and I suspect it either has reached or is approaching the tipping point of being  so over-Invested that it is collapsing the three realms together, somewhere between a perpendicularity and a low-level Ascension.  

[Leuthie]

42 minutes ago, Quantus said:

It certainly still was in Warbreaker.  It seems to have evolved since then. It's effects are different now, and I suspect it either has reached or is approaching the tipping point of being  so over-Invested that it is collapsing the three realms together, somewhere between a perpendicularity and a low-level Ascension.  

It's still steel. Main reason that Nightblood is different is because a different person is carrying it:

Quote

Travis Gafford

End of [Words of Radiance], Szeth meets Nightblood. Nightblood normally makes people feel very sick as a test. He does not have this. And I'm curious if there's a reason for that other than you didn't want to end your book with Szeth puking in a corner.

Brandon Sanderson

What happens when you take Nightblood is based entirely on what your desire on how to use Nightblood is. If your intent does not align with Nightblood's created Intent, which is kind of a deep, Cosmere sort of thing. But, basically, if you want Nightblood because you can then destroy all of your enemies, you're not gonna match to that Intent. If your desire to use Nightblood is either: "I don't even want to use Nightblood," you're actually gonna be fine; or if your desire to Nightblood is matching what Nightblood's view is... And Szeth is, like, the perfect person, because Szeth only wants to do what he's told, and Nightblood kind of only wants to do what he's told. So there's, like, a perfect alignment. They're both messed up in the same way, and they both view the world in the same way, and it's hard to find a more perfect alignment than those two. And so, because of that, there was just no reaction. And that should be something that I wanted people to pick up on.

Miscellaneous 2022 (Nov. 28, 2022)

Then again, there's this:

Quote

Kael_the_Adventurer

Did Nightblood's Awakening transform it into a God Metal?

Brandon Sanderson

*hesitant* Yes, you could say that.

Adam Horne

Was that a permanent change, or was that just while...

Brandon Sanderson

You can argue that Nightblood is a God Metal. Is he? You could argue otherwise as well. How about that?

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

 

Edited June 7, 2023 by Leuthie

[Walter The Moral]

I saw a pretty heated argument that Nightblood was actually made of Nicrosil, and that's how it holds so much Investiture. But I still think it's made of Steel.

[Brgst13]

From the WoBs cited there seems to be an argument that Nightblood's steel was converted into a God metal-like element.  Harmonium is like super cesium.  Could it be that the secret to Nightblood's sentience comes from Investiture being stuffed into its atoms to make a super steel?

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

16 hours ago, Leuthie said:

It's still steel. Main reason that Nightblood is different is because a different person is carrying it:

Then again, there's this:

 

OK, this just brings up another question for me. Nale told Szeth that Nightblood would be a good match for him, and Sanderson confirms that "it's hard to find a more perfect alignment than those two"

So the question that begs is, how did Nale..who is extremely unstable..understand the Intent of Nightblood and also understand that Szeth would be/is the perfect barer for that weapon? I know that Nale is a Herald and once was one of the greatest beings on Roshar, but it's been 5,000+ years of decent into madness for him. I feel like his understanding and giving Nightblood to Szeth is even more significant in light of Brandon's comments on it.

Also, it's interesting to know that the answer to my question of "Is Nightblood a god metal" is yes and no. And, it feels like there's a whole hell of a lot that can fit in between that yes and no. 

[alder24]

49 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

OK, this just brings up another question for me. Nale told Szeth that Nightblood would be a good match for him, and Sanderson confirms that "it's hard to find a more perfect alignment than those two"

So the question that begs is, how did Nale..who is extremely unstable..understand the Intent of Nightblood and also understand that Szeth would be/is the perfect barer for that weapon? I know that Nale is a Herald and once was one of the greatest beings on Roshar, but it's been 5,000+ years of decent into madness for him. I feel like his understanding and giving Nightblood to Szeth is even more significant in light of Brandon's comments on it.

Also, it's interesting to know that the answer to my question of "Is Nightblood a god metal" is yes and no. And, it feels like there's a whole hell of a lot that can fit in between that yes and no. 

Herald's madness manifests in a variety of ways. Just because they're mad, doesn't mean they can't understand complex Relmatic science. Ishar is crazy and yet still understands Relmatics and experiments on spren in new ways, just like Kalak - he precisely explained why trapping Jezrien in a gem killed him permanently and worked with Gavilar on getting out of Roshar. Heralds madness has nothing to do with it. It's more that they become maniacal about a very specific part of their personality, focused on a single intent, like spren.

Nightblood was previously seen in hands of Nightwatcher, as she proposed it to Dalinar when he visited her. It's likely that Nale took him from her with an explanation of how he works, or he took him from someone who visited her and got the sword.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

Herald's madness manifests in a variety of ways. Just because they're mad, doesn't mean they can't understand complex Relmatic science. Ishar is crazy and yet still understands Relmatics and experiments on spren in new ways, just like Kalak - he precisely explained why trapping Jezrien in a gem killed him permanently and worked with Gavilar on getting out of Roshar. Heralds madness has nothing to do with it. It's more that they become maniacal about a very specific part of their personality, focused on a single intent, like spren.

Ok, that makes sense in that context. Madness doesn't necessarily take away from their awareness. And Nale was, in his broken way, trying to continue to help Roshar. So that definitely tracks.

 

 

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Nightblood was previously seen in hands of Nightwatcher, as she proposed it to Dalinar when he visited her. It's likely that Nale took him from her with an explanation of how he works, or he took him from someone who visited her and got the sword.

Ok..so did she actually have Nightblood in her hand??? That's a little bit shocking to me, only because this is the first I'd ever considered it. I do remember that she asked him if he wanted a sword and she describes Nightblood. I guess I just assumed that the Nightwatcher could manifest it if he asked for it..since it was on Roshar at the time. I honestly never considered the less magical, and easier alternative, that she was simply holding it.

[alder24]

14 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Ok..so did she actually have Nightblood in her hand??? That's a little bit shocking to me, only because this is the first I'd ever considered it. I do remember that she asked him if he wanted a sword and she describes Nightblood. I guess I just assumed that the Nightwatcher could manifest it if he asked for it..since it was on Roshar at the time. I honestly never considered the less magical, and easier alternative, that she was simply holding it.

No, she wasn't holding it, she said she can give him  "A Blade that bleeds darkness and cannot be defeated.". There is only one blade like this.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

No, she wasn't holding it, she said she can give him  "A Blade that bleeds darkness and cannot be defeated.". There is only one blade like this.

Ok cool. I wasn't sure on that, thanks. That would imply that Cultivation had (at the very least) knowledge of Nightblood's coming to Roshar. I am now wondering what Nightblood looks like to Shards, because I imagine they are not a "quiet" being when it comes to Shardic observation? Also, I assume we'll eventually be told how they passed from Vasher to whoever to Nale to Szeth. I definitely look forward to that.

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Ok cool. I wasn't sure on that, thanks. That would imply that Cultivation had (at the very least) knowledge of Nightblood's coming to Roshar. I am now wondering what Nightblood looks like to Shards, because I imagine they are not a "quiet" being when it comes to Shardic observation? Also, I assume we'll eventually be told how they passed from Vasher to whoever to Nale to Szeth. I definitely look forward to that.

Like a black smoke? That's how it looked to Taravangian when he grabbed it. That's how it looks like from CS, Honorspren saw that when he passed through their fortress.

Cultivation knew about Nightblood when Taravangian came as she had him already (likely, Dalinar and Taravangian visited her almost at the same time, right after Gavilar's death), but Taravangian didn't predict Nightblood at all in Diagram (he did it without Fortune so maybe that's why). So at least when Taravangian came, she would have Nightblood, she would look into the future and saw a chance of Taravangian killing Rayse with Nightblood. She then decided to intervene and grant Taravangian's wish, Cultivate him. Next, she probably put Nightblood in the correct hands to make sure he will end up with Szeth - likely directly to Nale's hands.

I suspect Vasher went directly to Nightwatcher and just gave her the sword with nothing in return. As he said in RoW "leaving the sword was the best mistake he ever made".

[+robardin he/him]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Like a black smoke? That's how it looked to Taravangian when he grabbed it. That's how it looks like from CS, Honorspren saw that when he passed through their fortress.

Cultivation knew about Nightblood when Taravangian came as she had him already (likely, Dalinar and Taravangian visited her almost at the same time, right after Gavilar's death), but Taravangian didn't predict Nightblood at all in Diagram (he did it without Fortune so maybe that's why). So at least when Taravangian came, she would have Nightblood, she would look into the future and saw a chance of Taravangian killing Rayse with Nightblood. She then decided to intervene and grant Taravangian's wish, Cultivate him. Next, she probably put Nightblood in the correct hands to make sure he will end up with Szeth - likely directly to Nale's hands.

I suspect Vasher went directly to Nightwatcher and just gave her the sword with nothing in return. As he said in RoW "leaving the sword was the best mistake he ever made".

That is not How It Is Done. A boon, and a curse. That's how it's done down in the Valley.

Vasher would not just irresponsibly discard Nightblood, whatever his reasons for parting with the sword were (we have a vague WoB that there had been a "falling out" between them after he arrived on Roshar with NB); leaving the Blade with the Nightwatcher would certainly be an interesting choice.

And if so made, given Nightblood's unique nature and abilities, probably something he'd get something in return for?

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by robardin

[IlstrawberrySeed]

12 minutes ago, robardin said:

That is not How It Is Done. A boon, and a curse. That's how it's done down in the Valley.

 

Vasher would not just irresponsibly discard Nightblood, whatever his reasons for parting with the sword were (we have a vague WoB that there had been a "falling out" between them after he arrived on Roshar with NB); leaving the Blade with the Nightwatcher would certainly be an interesting choice.

And if so made, given Nightblood's unique nature and abilities, probably something he'd get something in return for?

 

I wonder if Vasher's method of consuming stormlight could be the boon for the curse of leaving Nightblood behind. This would fit with the "Seth could get access to it" since he doesn't have a boon yet.

[alder24]

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

That is not How It Is Done. A boon, and a curse. That's how it's done down in the Valley.

Enter Vasher, a splinter of Endowment. He just brought a gift.

5 minutes ago, robardin said:

Vasher would not just irresponsibly discard Nightblood, whatever his reasons for parting with the sword were (we have a vague WoB that there had been a "falling out" between them after he arrived on Roshar with NB); leaving the Blade with the Nightwatcher would certainly be an interesting choice.

I didn't want to say that he didn't have any good reasons for it - I'm not trying to predict why he and Nightblood separated, only how it happened. I think we can be mostly certain that Vasher brought Nightblood to Roshar (Vivenne's words) so if they had to be separated what would be the best way of doing it? Giving it to some random dude he didn't even know? Leaving it in the middle of nowhere? Or giving it to a Shard, under safe protection of Nightwatcher? Somebody who Nightblood can't influence no matter how hard he would try? Somebody that can't use Nightblood to kill? 

The problem with this idea is that he hates Shards so why would he leave the most powerful weapon in Cosmere to a Shard who very likely has her own plans?

10 minutes ago, robardin said:

And if so made, given Nightblood's unique nature and abilities, probably something he'd get something in return for?

I doubt it. Both Nightblood and Vasher don't seem any different from Warbreaker. Nothing new with them. I personally think it's more fitting for Vasher to just leave Nightblood without wanting anything in return - he is the living embodiment of everything terrible that happened to Vasher, constant reminder that he killed his wife and friends, of terrible things he had done, countless lives he took. That's why I think Vasher said "best mistake". Nightblood isn't his problem anymore. 

Keep in mind, Nightwatchers don't show up to everybody. Especially to outsiders.There is a chance that even if Vasher went there, he never met her. 

[IlstrawberrySeed]

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Enter Vasher, a splinter of Endowment. He just brought a gift.

I didn't want to say that he didn't have any good reasons for it - I'm not trying to predict why he and Nightblood separated, only how it happened. I think we can be mostly certain that Vasher brought Nightblood to Roshar (Vivenne's words) so if they had to be separated what would be the best way of doing it? Giving it to some random dude he didn't even know? Leaving it in the middle of nowhere? Or giving it to a Shard, under safe protection of Nightwatcher? Somebody who Nightblood can't influence no matter how hard he would try? Somebody that can't use Nightblood to kill? 

The problem with this idea is that he hates Shards so why would he leave the most powerful weapon in Cosmere to a Shard who very likely has her own plans?

I doubt it. Both Nightblood and Vasher don't seem any different from Warbreaker. Nothing new with them. I personally think it's more fitting for Vasher to just leave Nightblood without wanting anything in return - he is the living embodiment of everything terrible that happened to Vasher, constant reminder that he killed his wife and friends, of terrible things he had done, countless lives he took. That's why I think Vasher said "best mistake". Nightblood isn't his problem anymore. 

Keep in mind, Nightwatchers don't show up to everybody. Especially to outsiders.There is a chance that even if Vasher went there, he never met her. 

Did you see my responce about a potential boon that wouldn't really be noticable

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I didn't want to say that he didn't have any good reasons for it - I'm not trying to predict why he and Nightblood separated, only how it happened. I think we can be mostly certain that Vasher brought Nightblood to Roshar (Vivenne's words) so if they had to be separated what would be the best way of doing it? Giving it to some random dude he didn't even know? Leaving it in the middle of nowhere? Or giving it to a Shard, under safe protection of Nightwatcher? Somebody who Nightblood can't influence no matter how hard he would try? Somebody that can't use Nightblood to kill? 

 

23 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I doubt it. Both Nightblood and Vasher don't seem any different from Warbreaker. Nothing new with them. I personally think it's more fitting for Vasher to just leave Nightblood without wanting anything in return - he is the living embodiment of everything terrible that happened to Vasher, constant reminder that he killed his wife and friends, of terrible things he had done, countless lives he took. That's why I think Vasher said "best mistake". Nightblood isn't his problem anymore. 

Keep in mind, Nightwatchers don't show up to everybody. Especially to outsiders.There is a chance that even if Vasher went there, he never met her. 

I am now thinking it would make a lot of sense that Cultivation just maneuvered Vasher into separating form Nightblood? She's got crazy OP futuresight, and Nightblood was absolutely a lynchpin to her plans. I am now curious as to exactly how much autonomy Vasher had in the whole process? I feel like he'd be 50/50 split between wanting to get rid of Nightblood forever and feeling responsible as their barer (which is a stagnant, uncultivated state to be in), and once he was split from them...is happy to keep it that way? 

[alder24]

25 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

I wonder if Vasher's method of consuming stormlight could be the boon for the curse of leaving Nightblood behind. This would fit with the "Seth could get access to it" since he doesn't have a boon yet.

Maybe but I doubt it. Would he consider it a mistake then? And what is the boon and what is the curse? I'm arguing that leaving Nightblood behind is the boon.

It just might be that Nalthis magic is so grabby that it will reach to close sources of investiture and use them to power itself. Nightblood has already done that, when Szeth killed with him in Pure Lake. Nightblood draws the light from spheres in Szeth's pouch, not just from his body. And because Nightblood is artificial Returned, it's not a big of a stretch to say a Divine Breath can do the same, reach outside of the body and grab investiture to feed itself. However that seems too easy, and WoBs say it shouldn't be that easy.

Spoiler

Questioner

Would Vasher be able to use Stormlight in the same way that he can get Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

That would not be immediately easy, but Stormlight could feed Nightblood.

Questioner

Which is why Szeth can wield Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh, you'll have to see if but yes. That could theoretically happen. You can use most of the magics on most of the planets to fuel the other magics, if you know how to do it, it is not easy.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

Spoiler

R.E. (paraphrased)

Does Vasher have a different way of getting access to Stormlight than everyone else? Given that he has no spren, no honorblade and he isn't a squire?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. He can use Stormlight to stay alive, but it doesn't let him Surgebind.

R.E. (paraphrased)

Could Szeth get access to this method?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes

R.E. (paraphrased)

And use it to fuel Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes he could.

R.E. (paraphrased)

Can you tell me what that method is?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

*smiles*

Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 18, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

Extesian

This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.

But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases...

You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it.

Celestial_Blu3

How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid.

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

 

The problem with Nightwatcher giving him that ability is it is supposed to be easy for him to achieve, he went to Roshar because he knew he can feed with Stormlight. So he should already have this ability before coming to Roshar. Relaying on Nightwatcher isn't that safe if you have limited amounts of Breaths and likely don't want to return to Nalthis or maybe even can't.

Spoiler

Questioner

With Warbreaker and Stormlight Archive, Vasher and Zahel. How does that transition occur?

Brandon Sanderson

He went to Roshar because he knew ahead of time, that you could get Stormlight, and how easy it was. So he made his way there because he was tired of sucking people's souls to stay alive.

Questioner

How did he know?

Brandon Sanderson

He, as part of a group of scholars, stumbled upon the nature of worldhopping long ago.

Questioner

Could he be the same group of scholars as Jasnah?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it's a group of scholars on Nalthis who were studying magic, Investiture, and stumbled upon the means by which you transition into the Cognitive Realm. So, he actually had experience with Shardblades before, and that was part of how he built... well, he was part of it, but really...

Questioner

So, is Nightblood kind of like a Shardblade? Is a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood is an attempt to make a Shardblade using a different magic. And it turned out poorly.

Questioner

Speaking of Nightblood, how did that transition from Nalthis?

Brandon Sanderson

I have not answered that yet. Eventually, you will find out how they ended up on Roshar.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

 

5 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

I am now thinking it would make a lot of sense that Cultivation just maneuvered Vasher into separating form Nightblood? She's got crazy OP futuresight, and Nightblood was absolutely a lynchpin to her plans. I am now curious as to exactly how much autonomy Vasher had in the whole process? I feel like he'd be 50/50 split between wanting to get rid of Nightblood forever and feeling responsible as their barer (which is a stagnant, uncultivated state to be in), and once he was split from them...is happy to keep it that way? 

Likely but we don't even know why they split and how she would do that. She doesn't get directly involved outside the Valley.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

Soooo..is Vasher way above the mark for the 10th heightening? Is there anything above 10th? I don't know if there is anything about it in the AU, but the Ars Arcanum at the end of Warbreaker says pretty clearly that very few people have ever reached the 10thH, and that not much is known about it. Anyone know if there's anything out there on that?

[+robardin he/him]

59 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

Did you see my responce about a potential boon that wouldn't really be noticable

Ah, this one, right?

1 hour ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

I wonder if Vasher's method of consuming stormlight could be the boon for the curse of leaving Nightblood behind. This would fit with the "Seth could get access to it" since he doesn't have a boon yet.

Is his having left Nightblood with the Nightwatcher (if that is what happened) really a "curse" though? Seems like Vasher's pretty glad to be free of the burden.

As for using Stormlight to stay alive, I guess not having another Returned around on Roshar to verify, we don't know if that's just how the Investiture cost of a Returned works (which is my assumption), or if he would in fact need a Cultivation-twiddled converter to use it as Breath (the way that Lift metabolizes, produces, and operates on Lifelight instead of breathing in Stormlight).

However, we do have a WoB that Zahel has tried Awakening with Stormlight and been unsuccessful, so if it was a "Stormlight-to-Breath conversion ability" he got as a boon, you'd think he would be able to manage it. (The tricks he does with the laundry while sparring with Kaladin in RoW must have been done with a stash of actual Breath he has on him, similar to Vivenna's using her cloak in combat in Oathbringer.)

Quote

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by robardin

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

Spoiler

ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

Except that he was awakening in RoW? It could be that he has stored up Breath and can use it when he wants to, but this WoB is also from 2015, so it's possible he's hit on something between WoR and RoW. That's a relatively short amount of time for a discovery, but maybe.