Kandra Shapeshifting Ideas

[Trusk'our]

Kandra can do some pretty cool things with their shapeshifting. Canonically, they can:

 

1. Create nearly unbeatable disguises.

2. Increase muscle mass and density to make themselves inhumanly strong.

3. Regenerate from injuries by knitting their flesh back together.

4. Turn off their pain receptors.

5. Conceal weapons and tools inside their body.

6. Graft pieces of flesh onto others to patch up their wounds (they can also perform surgery using their abilities).

7. Pick locks by wriggling tendrils into the mechanisms. 

 

And here are some of my ideas on what else they could likely do:

 

1. Sculpt their body to aid their desired social interaction (i.e., making themselves more attractive to charm or seduce, or making themselves look horrific/monstrous to intimidate or frighten others).

2. Graft aluminum plates around their body to create a (nearly) Investiture-proof armor.

3. Absorb a ton of mass and become an absolute behemoth (to move large objects around easily or for combat).

4. Shrink into a diminutive form to sneak around (somewhat limited, since they need enough mass to support cognitive functions).

 

What are some interesting ways that you guys can think of that a Kandra could use their Shapeshifting?

[Quantus]

They can move Hemalurgic Spikes to new Bind Points.  

They can use a Gem Truebody as a Gemheart.  This may allow them to hear Rhythms, or possibly even form rudimentary spren bonds, letting them impersonate a Rhyshadium or something with a biologically necessary spren-bond?

They can use Invested items as True Bodies, up to and including shardplate. Who knows the benefits, but it would be one intimidating looking enemy.  

Melaan has an Aluminum Truebody, and WOB states it's protective capabilities are more field-effect than Line of Sight, so having an aluminum skeleton might offer generalized Investiture protection.  

 

Quote

 

focoma

We've seen Kandra True Bodies made of crystal, stone, or wood. Can a kandra use a True Body made of metal? If so, what happens if each metal "bone" had a Hemalurgic charge, and each one is touching an appropriate bind point?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And that would work, better than you think, because Kandra have fluid bind points. But too many spikes can be dangerous to the psyche, even with Ati not messing things up.

/r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015)

 

Quote

 

Ok-Row1050

If a kandra with a crystal True Body made their way to Roshar, could they use their crystal bones like a gemheart?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, they could. That is an excellent question.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

 

 

Quote

 

AndrewStirlingMacDonald (paraphrased)

Is it possible for a kandra to use Invested material to form a true body?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, that's a possibility.

AndrewStirlingMacDonald (paraphrased)

Could they use Shardplate?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

They absolutely could.

Shadows of Self Boston signing (Oct. 14, 2015)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mistchemist16]

Kandra brains don’t function quite like human brains. They can be moved around. So what if two kandras working together could put both of their brains in the same kandra? It wouldn’t be instant: very much a surgical procedure. But then their mental speed is even better than before. You could even make a type of repository kandra that just stores the brains of their people in a bigger True Body

zas678

TenSoon wonders, and I wonder too- How can kandra think and be sentient without brains? Doesn't the body need a physical coordinator to relay between the Physical and Cognitive realm? Or do the spikes do a good enough job with that?

Brandon Sanderson

I imagine kandra having a non-centralized nervous system, with brain power spread through their bodies. Well, non-centralized is probably the wrong way to say it. They have lobes of thought and memory attached to muscles here and there, and don't have a single 'brain.' They certainly have brain-like material, though.

/r/Fantasy_Bookclub Alloy of Law Q&A (Jan. 17, 2012)

A kandra with a metal body could also pair well with a Cointshot/Mistborn. Pull back the flesh on parts of the metal, like OreSeur did with metal vials, and the Allomancer should be able to kick off the kandra.

Maybe some sort of hidden acid spray mechanism to fight other kandra.

Put sleep or poison gas sealed in flesh pockets inside the arms. Then seal your nostrils and mouth, ideally with another oxygen source inside the body 

A Kandra Archivist could have a True Body made mostly out of copper and store more memories than even the Keepers

Those are my ideas. I think there are plenty of others, including getting animal abilites, but it also depends on how deep kandra shapeshifting goes. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Mistchemist16

[Trusk'our]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Melaan has an Aluminum Truebody, and WOB states it's protective capabilities are more field-effect than Line of Sight, so having an aluminum skeleton might offer generalized Investiture protection.  

Could you find the WoB please?

I don't mean to be skeptical (as aluminum bones providing Investiture protection would be awesome), but I was under the impression that aluminum simply didn't conduct Investiture, not that it created a field effect around it.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

1 hour ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Those are my ideas. I think there are plenty of others, including getting animal abilites, but it also depends on how deep kandra shapeshifting goes. 

Canine olfactory system would be a huge bonus.  If you could manage to get the sight abilities from a mantis shrimp and combine it with some birds of prey.  

A spiders ability to feel and react to the world around it is based on the hairs on its body... if a kandra could create the muscles to replicate that they would be in possession of better feel than Spook could dream of.  

 

[Quantus]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Could you find the WoB please?

I don't mean to be skeptical (as aluminum bones providing Investiture protection would be awesome), but I was under the impression that aluminum simply didn't conduct Investiture, not that it created a field effect around it.

Sure thing, here is is.  Context is certainly important here since the WOB is specifically referencing it's effects on emotional allomancy, which may limit the possibilities.  Other examples, like healing around pewter, make it sounds like it might be Contact in that case. So it's likely to vary depending on the effect it's disrupting, but at minimun the aluminum True Body should definitely shield the kandra-brain from emotional allomancy so long as it's located in a reasonably surrounded place (skull, ribcage, maybe the pelvic bone).  Next question is whether that would extend all the way to preventing Shardic manipulation, since WOB states those are the same mechanism.

Quote

 

Questioner

Is aluminum shielding from emotional Allomancy strictly line of sight? So, can someone in the basement bypass somebody’s aluminum hat on the first floor

Brandon Sanderson

No, they could not. You just put enough aluminum there and it disrupts.

Questioner

So it disrupts like a field.

Brandon Sanderson

Yep.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

 

Quote

 

Kurkistan

What would happen if you shot a thug with an aluminum bullet or stabbed him with an aluminum knife?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, that's a good question. The wound would not be able to heal around the aluminum, but once the aluminum came out and was gone from the system, they would be okay.

Kurkistan

Wait, is that a Bloodmaker, not a Thug?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, you're talking about Thugs?

It would work similarly, but it really wouldn't have a huge effect on them.

Kurkistan

Alright, because Peter was implying that there was some weird aluminum interaction with Thugs.

Brandon Sanderson

What was he thinking of...?

There is some weird interaction but...

Kurkistan

In the wedding scene, Wax thinks they would have aluminum bullets to deal with Thugs, and I was like, "Oh, that's a typo." And Peter was like, "Oh no it's not..."

Brandon Sanderson

No, no. That would just be-- it's like I said: healing it until the bullet is gone, it's just the same as Bloodmakers.

Footnote: Referring to AoL sample chapter commentary.
Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

 

 

 

[Trusk'our]

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

Sure thing, here is is.  Context is certainly important here since the WOB is specifically referencing it's effects on emotional allomancy, which may limit the possibilities.  Other examples, like healing around pewter, make it sounds like it might be Contact in that case. So it's likely to vary depending on the effect it's disrupting, but at minimun the aluminum True Body should definitely shield the kandra-brain from emotional allomancy so long as it's located in a reasonably surrounded place (skull, ribcage, maybe the pelvic bone).  Next question is whether that would extend all the way to preventing Shardic manipulation, since WOB states those are the same mechanism.

 

 

 

 

Sweet! I love it when a good WoB reliably proves a cool idea to work. Thanks @Quantus!

It does make me wonder though; Bleeder wanted very desperately to remain free from Harmony's control, so much so that she was willing to remove one of her own spikes, and we see that Melaan had an aluminum skeleton, so why didn't Bleeder not get an aluminum skeleton to protect herself?

[alder24]

8 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

It does make me wonder though; Bleeder wanted very desperately to remain free from Harmony's control, so much so that she was willing to remove one of her own spikes, and we see that Melaan had an aluminum skeleton, so why didn't Bleeder not get an aluminum skeleton to protect herself?

Because that would cost a fortune, which she didn't have.

[Quantus]

6 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Sweet! I love it when a good WoB reliably proves a cool idea to work. Thanks @Quantus!

It does make me wonder though; Bleeder wanted very desperately to remain free from Harmony's control, so much so that she was willing to remove one of her own spikes, and we see that Melaan had an aluminum skeleton, so why didn't Bleeder not get an aluminum skeleton to protect herself?

That's a good point about Melaan: She'd be objectly a worse scout/emissary if one of her skeletons cut off her communication with Harmony, so it probably does not extend to Shardic Comm & manipulation.  And it always remains the Shards prerogative to overrule most physical laws. 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

11 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Sweet! I love it when a good WoB reliably proves a cool idea to work. Thanks @Quantus!

It does make me wonder though; Bleeder wanted very desperately to remain free from Harmony's control, so much so that she was willing to remove one of her own spikes, and we see that Melaan had an aluminum skeleton, so why didn't Bleeder not get an aluminum skeleton to protect herself?

 

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Because that would cost a fortune, which she didn't have.

Do you think if she had approached Wax and discussed it he would have been on board with helping to aquire a set?  

3 minutes ago, Quantus said:

That's a good point about Melaan: She'd be objectly a worse scout/emissary if one of her skeletons cut off her communication with Harmony, so it probably does not extend to Shardic Comm & manipulation.  And it always remains the Shards prerogative to overrule most physical laws. 

Could it be that due to being a kandra Melaan could simply shift whatever parts of her need to be uses to communicate with harmony?  Like taking an aluminum lined hat off but instead you just shift that part of your insides far enough away from the aluminum to make communication possible?   

Either way. Communication and shardic control are 2 totally things.  Bleeder was able to communicate with Wax somehow but there was no way she could have ever controlled him.  

I think if Melaan can simply move those communication bits far enough away to keep the radio frequency open she will be fine while perhaps retaining the resistance to shardic control.  

 

Shardic control is my biggest issue with the Kandra and in a sense my biggest issue with Harmony as a whole. He was obviously okay taking direct control of Bleeder pushing her to killing herself.  Perhaps that wasn't his master plan but he obviously didn't have issues siezing control the second she had a spike shot into her.  

Perhaps he would have allowed her an aluminum truebody if she wanted it in hopes that it would help her retain her sanity?  Perhaps it would have been forbidden because she was already super jacked up mentally after all of her centuries of work previously?  

[alder24]

25 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Do you think if she had approached Wax and discussed it he would have been on board with helping to aquire a set?  

No

25 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Shardic control is my biggest issue with the Kandra and in a sense my biggest issue with Harmony as a whole. He was obviously okay taking direct control of Bleeder pushing her to killing herself.  Perhaps that wasn't his master plan but he obviously didn't have issues siezing control the second she had a spike shot into her.  

It was because Paalm broke her agreement with Harmony, which exposed her to his direct intervention and control. Ch 7

Quote

I can directly control a being who has pierced herself with too much Hemalurgy. In this case I would act, for Bleeder has disobeyed her Contract with me and opened herself up for my intervention

Kandra have a contract with Harmony (the Second Contract?) which likely says something like "I won't control you if you work for me". 

[Quantus]

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Do you think if she had approached Wax and discussed it he would have been on board with helping to aquire a set?  

Could it be that due to being a kandra Melaan could simply shift whatever parts of her need to be uses to communicate with harmony?  Like taking an aluminum lined hat off but instead you just shift that part of your insides far enough away from the aluminum to make communication possible?   

That could make sense.  And to that point, tactically it might be more important for her to be protected from other Shards influence on her travels (assuming it does that) and could be worth cutting off constant contact with Harmony.  

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Either way. Communication and shardic control are 2 totally things. 

They are specifically called out as all the the same mechanism.  It's all just a matter of the cracks in the soul, just with a wide amount of variance by power level (and some nuance based on Shardic Intent).  Hemalurgy scales more reliably and opens you up to control way more effectively, but simply being Insane can get you there too. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/193/#e4156

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/71/#e2797.

5 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Bleeder was able to communicate with Wax somehow but there was no way she could have ever controlled him.  

Wax is not a hemalurgic construct, and Bleeder is not a Shard; it's qualitatively the same mechanism but quantitatively in completely different leagues.  It's generally outside the reach of any single Misting to "break" a construct and achieve lasting Control, it's takes a group and/or Duralumin. Even for Harmony [TLM Spoiler] 

Spoiler

it take four spikes to control a normal Human,

but only the two for a Kandra.  And Harmony is the single most powerful entity in the cosmere (by a literal factor of two).  Also, per WOB Wax's earring was specifically made for communication, so it makes sense that others could tap into it using lower power levels, since it doesnt rely on just the cracked soul to make it possible.  

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

35 minutes ago, Quantus said:

That could make sense.  And to that point, tactically it might be more important for her to be protected from other Shards influence on her travels (assuming it does that) and could be worth cutting off constant contact with Harmony.  

They are specifically called out as all the the same mechanism.  It's all just a matter of the cracks in the soul, just with a wide amount of variance by power level (and some nuance based on Shardic Intent).  Hemalurgy scales more reliably and opens you up to control way more effectively, but simply being Insane can get you there too. 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/193/#e4156

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/71/#e2797.

Wax is not a hemalurgic construct, and Bleeder is not a Shard; it's qualitatively the same mechanism but quantitatively in completely different leagues.  It's generally outside the reach of any single Misting to "break" a construct and achieve lasting Control, it's takes a group and/or Duralumin. Even for Harmony [TLM Spoiler] 

  Hide contents

it take four spikes to control a normal Human,

but only the two for a Kandra.  And Harmony is the single most powerful entity in the cosmere (by a literal factor of two).  Also, per WOB Wax's earring was specifically made for communication, so it makes sense that others could tap into it using lower power levels, since it doesnt rely on just the cracked soul to make it possible.  

Thanks for these.  I communicated that poorly. I just meant that communicating and controlling must be magnitudes different in difficulty.  

41 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No

It was because Paalm broke her agreement with Harmony, which exposed her to his direct intervention and control. Ch 7

Kandra have a contract with Harmony (the Second Contract?) which likely says something like "I won't control you if you work for me". 

Yeah this is just more of what I dislike about Harmony.  You have free will so long as you obey me otherwise I will splice into your brain and make you obey me anyways.  

The opposite of true agency. 

I genuinely feel bad for the Kandra and their complete lack of agency under him.  

[alder24]

35 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Yeah this is just more of what I dislike about Harmony.  You have free will so long as you obey me otherwise I will splice into your brain and make you obey me anyways.  

The opposite of true agency

Not really. Fist of, they make a deal, very serious deal. Secondly, I bet If Paalm just walked away and don't try to abolish the world, and simply just go wherever she wanted, do something non invasive, Sazed would just leave her alone despite her breaking the Contract. But what else Sazed could have done when she tried to abolish society and bring revolution to Elendel?

38 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I genuinely feel bad for the Kandra and their complete lack of agency under him.  

It's the opposite for Kandra now. They can live among humans, and change bodies however they want. They don't have to follow contracts and do terrible things (like eating their own kind), they don't have to fear Resolution, they can experiment with their bodies, experience love, and most importantly, develop their unique culture. They have far more freedom now than ever before, and the only thing they need to do is to work sometimes, like everybody. They don't have it bad at all, and many of them like working with Harmony. Also, many of them can pursue their own hobbies, like ReLuur, who was fascinated by the Bands, BoM ch 3:

Quote

“One of our brothers,” MeLaan said, sitting up in her chair, “a kandra named ReLuur, took this image.”
“The Bands of Mourning fascinated him,” VenDell said. “ReLuur spent the last two centuries chasing them. He recently returned to Elendel bearing an evanotype camera in his pack and these pictures.”

 

[cometaryorbit]

I don't think we really know how much freedom kandra have, or exactly what Paalm broke that made Sazed willing to control her. They might be required to follow Harmony's orders, or maybe he'd only take control if they use their shapeshifting powers to commit major crimes like Paalm did.

Harmony does talk about his Intent being basically free will, so it might be the latter. And he doesn't seem to control the koloss.

I definitely don't think that if a kandra wanted to "retire", neither working for Harmony nor against him, he'd take control and stop that.

[JustQuestin2004]

Here's a few ideas of my own:

-Camouflage, because their undisguised bodies are pretty transparent anyway, all they'd need to do is practice with making their bodies as transparent as possible or eating a bunch of chameleons or cuttlefish or whatever their Scadrian equivalent are.

-Chimera Animals, take a more refined approach to their Mistwraith cousins and pick up the skeletons of particular Cosmere creatures, then mix and match the bones until they can make something better than the sum of it's parts, like a Whitespine from Roshar combined with a Nightmaw from First of the Sun. That sounds like an absolute terror to me.

[Xiahida]

Could they store spikes? Spikes can retain their power while in a jar of blood so there might be a possibility for this.

[alder24]

30 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

Could they store spikes? Spikes can retain their power while in a jar of blood so there might be a possibility for this.

Yes, they can, MeLaan did it in BoM, storing the spike of ReLuur in her flesh.