Radiant Platespren

[Frustration]

22 hours ago, Hatman said:

By me. 

Honorspren (for Windrunners) are basically the super version of windspren. They are bigger, stronger, and smarter, but they look alike, act somewhat alike, and share association with and use of the order's primary surge (adhesion). 

A similar relationship seems to be present between Highspren and gravityspren. They both match up with the Skybreaker's primary surge (Highspren appearance seems like bending of or hole in spacetime). Starspren on the other hand, don't seem to have much of an association. Gravityspren also seem to be an appropriate size (they are seen in the physical realm near creatures they bond and in the cognitive realm pulling boats). 

Additionally, both windspren and gravityspren are known to provide ordinary singer forms. This is not known to be the case for starspren. 

Windspread are the only ones that look alike.

Lifespren are floating orbs of green light, not a collection of vines.

Creationspren don't have any particular shape.

Gloryspren look nothing like any of the Bondsmith spren.

Inkspren look nothing like logicspren.

 

So on and so forth.

[Firesong she/her]

21 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Windspread are the only ones that look alike.

Lifespren are floating orbs of green light, not a collection of vines.

Creationspren don't have any particular shape.

Gloryspren look nothing like any of the Bondsmith spren.

Inkspren look nothing like logicspren.

 

So on and so forth.

I mean, technically, Lifespren and Gloryspren are just fan theories, well supported ones, but fan theories nonetheless. Also, if Lifespren are Platespren, they would be for Truthwatchers, not Edgedancers, due to color associations. Truthwatchers have green plate, while Edgedancers have silver plate. Thus we would look more for similiariteis with Mistspren instead of Cultivationspren. 

Only Windspren, Creationspren, and Logicspren are confirmed. And I do feel that Creationspren and Cryptics have similar physical ideals in how much they warp and change form over time, like how Cryptics have a constantly changing pattern for their head. 

On Logicspren and Inkspren, you have a valid point there. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Firesong

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Also, if Lifespren are Platespren, they would be for Truthwatchers, not Edgedancers, due to color associations. Truthwatchers have green plate, while Edgedancers have silver plate. Thus we would look more for similiariteis with Mistspren instead of Cultivationspren. 

Then why are they all around Lift?

I don't think the color of the spren has anything to do with it.

Especially when Truthwatchers and Edgedancers are known to break the pattern of the chart.

Spoiler

asmodeus

A lot of the Radiantspren descriptions are in some way similar to the essence described to them.

Yet Truthwatcher spren and Edgedancer spren seem to have switched essences in their descriptions.

Truthwatcher spren have been described as light passing through glass/crystal, yet that is the Edgedancer essence. Similarly, Edgedancer spren have been described as looking like vines, yet plants/pulp are the Truthwatcher essence.

Is this deliberate, or even meaningful?

Peter Ahlstrom

It's important to remember that the table of the Ten Essences and Their Historical Associations is an in-world document based on the understanding of the people of Roshar. Some parts of it reflect reality more closely than other parts. Some of it attempts to put things in little boxes that resist being constrained to those boxes. Some of it may be essentially irrelevant. And there may also be other associations that exist but are not reflected in the table.

Also, feel free to quote me on this.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e16195

 

 

 

[Firesong she/her]

Just now, Frustration said:

Then why are they all around Lift?

I don't think the color of the spren has anything to do with it.

Especially when Truthwatchers and Edgedancers are known to break the pattern of the chart.

  Reveal hidden contents

asmodeus

A lot of the Radiantspren descriptions are in some way similar to the essence described to them.

Yet Truthwatcher spren and Edgedancer spren seem to have switched essences in their descriptions.

Truthwatcher spren have been described as light passing through glass/crystal, yet that is the Edgedancer essence. Similarly, Edgedancer spren have been described as looking like vines, yet plants/pulp are the Truthwatcher essence.

Is this deliberate, or even meaningful?

Peter Ahlstrom

It's important to remember that the table of the Ten Essences and Their Historical Associations is an in-world document based on the understanding of the people of Roshar. Some parts of it reflect reality more closely than other parts. Some of it attempts to put things in little boxes that resist being constrained to those boxes. Some of it may be essentially irrelevant. And there may also be other associations that exist but are not reflected in the table.

Also, feel free to quote me on this.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/406/#e16195

 

 

 

I think it does as I am talking about the official art of what the plate for each order looks like, not just the Vorin colors. 

Also, maybe because she is just weird and very closely connected to Cultivation. Lift is a very bad example to try and find out what Edgedancers are like as she is actively shown to be an exception in basically every way, she doesn't even use Stormlight normally. She mostly uses Lifelight, which is creates via metabolizing food, and she is effected by the Old Magic given directly by Cultivation, and etc. She is not the norm in any way. 

[in Truth,watcher of tv he/him]

Here’s a thought, maybe the different Bondsmiths each  have a different Platespren. They are generally thought of as ‘cousins’ to the Radiant spren and each of the Bondsmith spren are vastly different. Further, while glory suits the Stormfather/Honour, being bold, noble and socially oriented, it’s at odds with the Nightwatcher/Cultivation. The Cultivation side of things is generally more subtle, nurturing and nature-oriented; I’d put forward that the Platespren could be riverspren.

Riverspren are described as one of the largest and most intelligent of the lesser spren, right next to windspren, which I’d guess could be due to an association with Adhesion. Water has been conspicuously absent from Surgebinding and its associations, despite being critical for life and omnipresent, especially on Roshar. Also, the Nightwatcher resides in “the Valley” which almost certainly means there’s a river nearby and her appearance was compared to one.

 

On these discussions about colour and appearance, @Firesong, I don’t think we are meant to take the Steve Argyle art as canonical depictions. In the books, from what I remember, living Plate and Blade are always described as being silver-grey metal with the seams and engravings glowing with the standard colour associated with the Order. Some spren have a similar colour but others, like logicspren and creationspren, do not.
As for appearance, the relationship between the Radiantspren and the Platespren is more of an abstract one. Their concepts are related (such as creativity and patterns) more than their physical description.

[Firesong she/her]

2 hours ago, in Truth,watcher of tv said:

Here’s a thought, maybe the different Bondsmiths each  have a different Platespren. They are generally thought of as ‘cousins’ to the Radiant spren and each of the Bondsmith spren are vastly different. Further, while glory suits the Stormfather/Honour, being bold, noble and socially oriented, it’s at odds with the Nightwatcher/Cultivation. The Cultivation side of things is generally more subtle, nurturing and nature-oriented; I’d put forward that the Platespren could be riverspren.

Riverspren are described as one of the largest and most intelligent of the lesser spren, right next to windspren, which I’d guess could be due to an association with Adhesion. Water has been conspicuously absent from Surgebinding and its associations, despite being critical for life and omnipresent, especially on Roshar. Also, the Nightwatcher resides in “the Valley” which almost certainly means there’s a river nearby and her appearance was compared to one.

 

On these discussions about colour and appearance, @Firesong, I don’t think we are meant to take the Steve Argyle art as canonical depictions. In the books, from what I remember, living Plate and Blade are always described as being silver-grey metal with the seams and engravings glowing with the standard colour associated with the Order. Some spren have a similar colour but others, like logicspren and creationspren, do not.
As for appearance, the relationship between the Radiantspren and the Platespren is more of an abstract one. Their concepts are related (such as creativity and patterns) more than their physical description.

I feel that is more what deadplate looks like. Given that even the minifigs show Kaladin's Windrunner Shardplate to be blue. And iirc it is described as blue in the books. So, that still holds itself as being accurate. 

[Marabout]

Skybreaker armor Spren confirmed as… Gravitationspren

Dragonsteel Q&A 

[alder24]

37 minutes ago, Marabout said:

Skybreaker armor Spren confirmed as… Gravitationspren

Dragonsteel Q&A 

I don't like this at all! Starspren were perfect. WoB for anyone who wants to read it (Edit: hints will be in future books, not are in the in books):

Spoiler

Questioner

I was wondering if the Skybreakers' armor spren... what spren they are?

Brandon Sanderson

Well... Do you have any guesses?

Questioner

Stormspren?

Brandon Sanderson

No, not stormspren, good guess. Any other guesses?

Gravitationspren. We're going with gravitationspren for them. So you should see some little hints of that in future books.

And this isn't too much of a spoiler 'cause we will be releasing all of these when the RPG comes out, 'cause you gotta know how to get your armor when you play the RPG.

Dragonsteel 2023 (Nov. 21, 2023)

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by alder24

[Treamayne]

16 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't like this at all! Starspren were perfect.

Except for all of the myriad reasons stated previously in this thread about why Starspren didn't fit at all (except the nebulous Highspren-Sky-Star connection).

Not that I was any closer when I thought it would be ConcentrationSpren.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Treamayne
Color

[+Kelkamer]

On 8/18/2023 at 12:43 AM, Ookla the Sibling said:

Even though Windrunners are the order more associated with blue, due to the strong themes of freedom within the Willshaper's ideals I think that maybe riverspren or rainspren would be cool. Or wavespren? I guess I associate the idea of freedom with water, especially rain, so I think this could be cool.

 

I love this. Growing up on the Coast, I've always associated water with the freedom of the sea. I doubt it'll happen, but since Lightspren are sailors, I've always hoped Brandon was drawing on that connection too. 

 

I also had the idea maybe Willshaper plate spren would be Luckspren since they use them to basically power their ships. But again, I don't think it's too likely to happen.

[+Kelkamer]

6 hours ago, Marabout said:

Skybreaker armor Spren confirmed as… Gravitationspren

Dragonsteel Q&A 

Also, whoa!!

[Marabout]

I’m going to try to go 3 for 3 with my predictions 

My other two are:

Truthwatcher:  Water or River Spren.  Makes sense to me with Mistspren and also associating water with life.

Willshaper:  Anticipation Spren.  Music Spren is a good choice thematically but for some reason I always picture Willshapers looking to the horizon, or a new journey, with anticipation.

[Treamayne]

3 hours ago, Kelkamer said:

I love this. Growing up on the Coast, I've always associated water with the freedom of the sea. I doubt it'll happen, but since Lightspren are sailors, I've always hoped Brandon was drawing on that connection too.

2 hours ago, Kelkamer said:

Also, whoa!!

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[alder24]

13 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Except for all of the myriad reasons stated previously in this thread about why Starspren didn't fit at all (except the nebulous Highspren-Sky-Star connection).

I was tempted to start a discussion with you, considering the lack of those reasons which you've mentioned are in this thread, but this is pointless now. It has been decided and my whining on the internet won't change that. I hope Brandon will provide us some reasons why he chose them in KoWT.

[Treamayne]

13 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I was tempted to start a discussion with you, considering the lack of those reasons which you've mentioned are in this thread, but this is pointless now. It has been decided and my whining on the internet won't change that. I hope Brandon will provide us some reasons why he chose them in KoWT.

I was rash, it might not have been this specific thread. On search I found at least five threads on Platespren speculations. Sorry something you felt strongly didn't pan out. While I feel I understood what led to the conclusion about Starspren, I have to admit I am glad it was not them as it never made sense to me based on the known primary factors. 

I'm sorry I forgot my color code to show I mostly meant the post in jest. The "they were perfect" just seemed too much a straight line to pass up. . . 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Treamayne

[alder24]

34 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I was rash, it might not have been this specific thread. On search I found at least five threads on Platespren speculations. Sorry something you felt strongly didn't pan out. While I feel I understood what led to the conclusion about Starspren, I have to admit I am glad it was not them as it never made sense to me based on the known primary factors. 

I'm sorry I forgot my color code to show I mostly meant the post in jest. The "they were perfect" just seemed too much a straight line to pass up. . . 

No need for any apologizing, nothing happened. I like discussions and I was overly dramatic, for the same reason you wanted to pick on my "they were perfect" - I meant it to be controversial.

Edited November 28, 2023 by alder24

[The Sibling she/her]

I think that anguishspren might be interesting for one of the orders. Radiants break and then "fill the cracks with something stronger" so I think that it wouldn't be too crazy to have one of the fourth oaths to be about recovering from a great loss. It would be like they conquered their sadness and anger and put it to good use. Kaladin sort of gets over his anger, but maybe the Dustbringers will instead use their anger to push them towards accomplishments? I don't think anger and sadness is always bad, so it might be interesting for an order that harnesses their strong emotions and uses them as motivation might have platespren such as angerspren, anguishspren or agonyspren.