Fullborn V.S. 5th Ideal Windrunners

[Frustration]

46 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Plate might grant a resistance to chromium, but it's also fueled by Investiture, and so is likely to be affected just as easily.

Living plate is not.

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Would you kill your best friend just because?

They only have so much Connection, they won't be able to make you feel like they're your best friend for long.

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

From Radiant, smash his plate and steal his spheres.

And if he's in the air higher than you can go?

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

You have a connection to that spren the moment he meets you. Because storing connections makes people unaware of you, it means you have connections to even those who you never met before.

There are multiple types of Connection, "Seeing them as enemies" is one, which is one of the ones Ishar tried to steal from Dalinar(and also why being friends wouldn't work) others are bonds, place of birth etc.

You can make them feel more familiar to you, but you can't form the neccesary Connections to become a Radiant, because you don't have those.

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

WoBs proves it, link should work again, just bracket suddenly became part of it

Forgers can create Connections, not just strengthen them.

Edited February 28 by Frustration

[therunner]

3 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I'm pretty sure that's how the powers work, yes. You'd just want to be careful who you give those powers to, since they could use them against you.

I think the reason the Excisors are needed is because they replace the natural powers of a Soulbearer, allowing other Metalborn to store their powers in the medallions for others to use. In fact, I would bet the "Excisors" are nothing more than one or more Unsealed Metalminds created by the Sovreign for the Southern Scadriens. But, we don't know for sure yet.

Ok, there is a WoB that 32 Mistings and Ferrings could possibly create Medallion, so yeah Fullborn probably could as well.

However, do we assume they have the knowledge? Because that is a bit question as well.

Windrunner knowing what they are doing can create vacuum, and travel at speeds on order of km/s, likely outpacing even Fullborn.

I.e. do we assume that both know and can use their powers perfectly and to the fullest?

[Trusk'our]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Living plate is not.

Didn't Dalinar see in his visions that Radiant Plate fed off the Radiant's Stormlight instead of Gemstones? 

I don't think that Plate, living or not, would be able to function without Kinetic Investiture, since it provides an actual boost to the wearer's abilities, unlike Blades, which seem to have their effects stem from the Realmatic consequences of them being large portions of Honor's and Cultivation's Investiture.

[Frustration]

Just now, Trusk'our said:

Didn't Dalinar see in his visions that Radiant Plate fed off the Radiant's Stormlight instead of Gemstones? 

I don't think that Plate, living or not, would be able to function without Kinetic Investiture, since it provides an actual boost to the wearer's abilities, unlike Blades, which seem to have their effects stem from the Realmatic consequences of them being large portions of Honor's and Cultivation's Investiture.

Jasnah ran out of Stormlight, but her plate continued to function.

[alder24]

20 minutes ago, therunner said:

But F-Duralumin would not just allow Fullborn to become 'friend' of the Radiant. While it can form Connection by connecting to e.g. land, person etc. it does not necessarily allow to choose what kind of bond it creates.

I think there are more than one connection connecting you to people, just like you can focus and push on a metal bar in two different places (Kel fight with Inquisitor). In MSH, when Kel gets to see Spiritual Realm thanks to Preservation (part 3.3), he sees his connections to him, and later he turns around and sees hundreds of connections between him and Ruin. Just make a one friendly impression and you create a "friendly" connection, which you can use.

20 minutes ago, therunner said:

No it is not, aging is part of spiritual ideal, so age related health issues cannot be cured by gold, even with compounding.

Again, I'm not talking about aging or stopping it, just to stay healthy to live as long as he normally can, which could make him live longer than Radiant. Your daily health has a huge influence on how you age. But you can use connection to slow down aging (bottom of the WoB):

Spoiler

Doom-Slayer

So how do the exact mechanics of Feruchemy in relation to Compounding work?

This confusion is primarily around how [the Lord Ruler] gets his near infinite age.

Okay. So first off, I understand the concept of how they work. Feruchemy is net zero, Allomancy is net positive, combine them and you end with a net positive Feruchemy ability.

So how Feruchemy normally works... you take say weight, store half your normal weight and then you can access it whenever you want. So you (originally X weight) are taking A weight, storing it, and then you are at (X-A) weight, with access to A. So we have a metalmind that store magnitude with the efficiency of how its received based on how quickly or slowly it is drawn upon.

All the metalminds except atium seem to act this way. Atium seems to work as storing magnitude/time rather than just magnitude. The way I understand it is that say a 30 year old person becomes 50 years old for 1 day, this would give access to 20 years difference for a 1 day period.

The Lord Ruler then exploits this by gaining access to say 20 years difference over 10 days (magnification by Compounding) which he then slowly feeds into himself to lower his age.

Why this difference? I'm assuming its to maintain a neutral "body age" because with just magnitude a person could permanently make themselves younger by Compounding.

With just magnitude of "20 years of youth" being stored, if the Lord Ruler magnified it, he could turn it into "200 years of youth" and then he would never need the constant stream off youth (and wouldn't have died without the bracelets)

Hope this makes sense.

Brandon Sanderson

All right, so there are a few things you have to understand about cosmere magics to grok all of this.

First, is that magics can be hacked together. You'll see more of this in the future of the cosmere, but an early one is the hack here--where you're essentially powering Feruchemy with Allomancy. (A little more complex than that, but it seems like you get the idea.)

The piece you're missing is the nature of a person's Spiritual aspect. This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw Investiture. The soul, you might say.

(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their Cognitive aspect as well, and the Cognitive aspect can interfere with the Spiritual aspect trying to make the Physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your Physical self with your Spiritual self--making the Physical regrow. More powerful forms of Investiture can repair the soul as well.

However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what Investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true.

So the Spiritual aspect will push for a restoration to the way you should be. With this Compounding hack, you're not changing connection; it's a purely Physical Realm change.

This dichotomy cannot remain for long. And the greater the disparity, the more pressure the spirit will exert. Ten or twenty years won't matter much. A thousand will matter a lot. So the only way to use Compounding to change your age is to store up all this extra youth in a metalmind, then be constantly tapping it to counteract the soul's attempt to restore you to how you should be.

Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing Connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult.

Though this is the point where I ping [Peter Ahlstrom] and get him to double-check all this. Once in a while, my fingers still type the wrong term in places. (See silvereye vs tineye.)

General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 20, 2015)

20 minutes ago, therunner said:

Can he?
We don't know how medallions are made, only that it requires excisor and some powers are involved.

He can: 

Spoiler

Yata

If you have 32 Misting and Ferring, every kind possible, without using Hemalurgy, you can craft a medallion? Without the aftermath of the--

Brandon Sanderson

So could you craft a medallion... without-- oh. That should be possible, but this is one of the things where I have to dig out the notes and double-check myself. But this should be possible.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

They only have so much Connection, they won't be able to make you feel like they're your best friend for long.

But that would at least bring WIndrunner down to the ground to have a friendly talk with you.

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And if he's in the air higher than you can go?

Then he can't kill you.

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Forgers can create Connections, not just strengthen them.

The other WoB, which now works.

 

1 minute ago, therunner said:

Windrunner knowing what they are doing can create vacuum, and travel at speeds on order of km/s, likely outpacing even Fullborn.

They can move that fast, but in a fight it's useless as they don't have a reaction time fast enough to strike anybody before he passes by them.

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Didn't Dalinar see in his visions that Radiant Plate fed off the Radiant's Stormlight instead of Gemstones? 

Those are living sprens which doesn't really need Stormlight to live. They need Stormlight to heal and that you can leech.

[Trusk'our]

Just now, Frustration said:

Jasnah ran out of Stormlight, but her plate continued to function.

Huh. Maybe it just had some Stormlight still permeating it?

I don't know, it just feels like it goes against the theme of Sanderson's conversion of energy for the Cosmere. 

What if you break living Plate? Does it still need Stormlight to regenerate?

[Trusk'our]

4 minutes ago, therunner said:

However, do we assume they have the knowledge? Because that is a bit question as well.

I.e. do we assume that both know and can use their powers perfectly and to the fullest?

I assumed that they did. Or at least they had experimented with their powers and honed their skills.

6 minutes ago, therunner said:

Windrunner knowing what they are doing can create vacuum, and travel at speeds on order of km/s, likely outpacing even Fullborn.

They could fly very fast, but I don't think that their body's speed would be enough to counter that of a determined Fullborn tapping Feruchemical steel. But, we don't really have an exact amount for how much quicker a Radiant gets when they are holding Stormlight. 

I actually saw a while back that a thread for a Radiant and a Fullborn, and someone had said that a Radiant could "keep up with a Fullborn no problem" in terms of physical speed, but I kind of doubt it, unless we were to see some really impressive feats of sheer speed pulled of by a Radiant in the books, which I don't recall seeing any. Just minor increments of one's reflexes and speed.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see what Brandon decides though.

[therunner]

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think there are more than one connection connecting you to people, just like you can focus and push on a metal bar in two different places (Kel fight with Inquisitor). In MSH, when Kel gets to see Spiritual Realm thanks to Preservation (part 3.3), he sees his connections to him, and later he turns around and sees hundreds of connections between him and Ruin. Just make a one friendly impression and you create a "friendly" connection, which you can use.

Spoiler

Doom-Slayer

So how do the exact mechanics of Feruchemy in relation to Compounding work?

This confusion is primarily around how [the Lord Ruler] gets his near infinite age.

Okay. So first off, I understand the concept of how they work. Feruchemy is net zero, Allomancy is net positive, combine them and you end with a net positive Feruchemy ability.

So how Feruchemy normally works... you take say weight, store half your normal weight and then you can access it whenever you want. So you (originally X weight) are taking A weight, storing it, and then you are at (X-A) weight, with access to A. So we have a metalmind that store magnitude with the efficiency of how its received based on how quickly or slowly it is drawn upon.

All the metalminds except atium seem to act this way. Atium seems to work as storing magnitude/time rather than just magnitude. The way I understand it is that say a 30 year old person becomes 50 years old for 1 day, this would give access to 20 years difference for a 1 day period.

The Lord Ruler then exploits this by gaining access to say 20 years difference over 10 days (magnification by Compounding) which he then slowly feeds into himself to lower his age.

Why this difference? I'm assuming its to maintain a neutral "body age" because with just magnitude a person could permanently make themselves younger by Compounding.

With just magnitude of "20 years of youth" being stored, if the Lord Ruler magnified it, he could turn it into "200 years of youth" and then he would never need the constant stream off youth (and wouldn't have died without the bracelets)

Hope this makes sense.

Brandon Sanderson

All right, so there are a few things you have to understand about cosmere magics to grok all of this.

First, is that magics can be hacked together. You'll see more of this in the future of the cosmere, but an early one is the hack here--where you're essentially powering Feruchemy with Allomancy. (A little more complex than that, but it seems like you get the idea.)

The piece you're missing is the nature of a person's Spiritual aspect. This is similar to a Platonic idea--the idea that there's a perfect version of everyone somewhere. It's a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw Investiture. The soul, you might say.

(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their Cognitive aspect as well, and the Cognitive aspect can interfere with the Spiritual aspect trying to make the Physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your Physical self with your Spiritual self--making the Physical regrow. More powerful forms of Investiture can repair the soul as well.

However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what Investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true.

So the Spiritual aspect will push for a restoration to the way you should be. With this Compounding hack, you're not changing connection; it's a purely Physical Realm change.

This dichotomy cannot remain for long. And the greater the disparity, the more pressure the spirit will exert. Ten or twenty years won't matter much. A thousand will matter a lot. So the only way to use Compounding to change your age is to store up all this extra youth in a metalmind, then be constantly tapping it to counteract the soul's attempt to restore you to how you should be.

Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing Connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult.

Though this is the point where I ping [Peter Ahlstrom] and get him to double-check all this. Once in a while, my fingers still type the wrong term in places. (See silvereye vs tineye.)

General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 20, 2015)

 

But can Feruchemist pick and choose which Connection they store? Kel could only see various Connections because he semi-Ascended at that point, or through Shard intervention.
So far we have only seen Blank Connection, even when having 'I am friend'-Connection would have been very useful (i.e. mission to unknown lands where you don't want to fight with natives).

What he have seen, and WoBs state does not seem to support the pick and choose interpretation. Just like e.g. F-Iron you cannot store only some Connection, but generally all, In my opinion.

Quote

Again, I'm not talking about aging or stopping it, just to stay healthy to live as long as he normally can, which could make him live longer than Radiant. Your daily health has a huge influence on how you age. But you can use connection to slow down aging (bottom of the WoB):

  Reveal hidden contents

The WoB states 'changing connection', which is outside of what Feruchemist can do. They can store and tap what they already have, not modify it.
So nope, Fullborn without atium would live as long as healthy human.
And Radiant with access to Stormlight would be about as healthy, so it would be a toss up on who dies first.
 

Quote

They can move that fast, but in a fight it's useless as they don't have a reaction time fast enough to strike anybody before he passes by them.

Hold reverse lashing in one hand, Shardblade in the other in front of it, and as you fly by the Fullborn they get pulled by the Reverse Lashing and cut through blade.
If that does not work, repeat.

Hmm, or generally the Windrunner could possibly neutralize F-steel of Fullborn via dragging them in the air through Reverse Lashing.

EDIT:

Quote

Huh. Maybe it just had some Stormlight still permeating it?

I don't know, it just feels like it goes against the theme of Sanderson's conversion of energy for the Cosmere. 

What if you break living Plate? Does it still need Stormlight to regenerate?

Well it is living plate, so since the spren are still alive, it can move.
For regeneration it does require Stormlight. (and possibly if you keep it on all the time it would require some for 'sustanance')

Quote

I assumed that they did. Or at least they had experimented with their powers and honed their skills.

Fair enough, I just wanted to understand what angle are we approaching this from.
 

Edited February 28 by therunner

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

Huh. Maybe it just had some Stormlight still permeating it?

I don't know, it just feels like it goes against the theme of Sanderson's conversion of energy for the Cosmere. 

What if you break living Plate? Does it still need Stormlight to regenerate?

Yes it does need Stormlight to heal.

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

But that would at least bring WIndrunner down to the ground to have a friendly talk with you.

He still remembers your fighting

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Then he can't kill you.

He has AOE vacuums.

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

The other WoB, which now works.

I'm sorry, which one?

[Ookla the Immortal]

I think the one you're talking about still didn't work for me.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

Hold reverse lashing in one hand, Shardblade in the other in front of it, and as you fly by the Fullborn they get pulled by the Reverse Lashing and cut through blade.
If that does not work, repeat.

Hmm, or generally the Windrunner could possibly neutralize F-steel of Fullborn via dragging them in the air through Reverse Lashing.

Leeching would leech reverse lashing, tin would give him senses to see Windrunner far in advance, steel would provide speed to avoid it, zinc mental speed to prepare, and pewter to punch Windrunner in the head to turn him into a bloody goo. 

4 minutes ago, therunner said:

But can Feruchemist pick and choose which Connection they store? Kel could only see various Connections because he semi-Ascended at that point, or through Shard intervention.
So far we have only seen Blank Connection, even when having 'I am friend'-Connection would have been very useful (i.e. mission to unknown lands where you don't want to fight with natives).

What he have seen, and WoBs state does not seem to support the pick and choose interpretation. Just like e.g. F-Iron you cannot store only some Connection, but generally all, In my opinion.

I believe a skilled Feruchemist who trained with it would be able to do it. Just like a skilled Mistborn can push and pull on metal rod in 2 different places, not in a center. It's a matter of perception.

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

He still remembers your fighting

He does, but his spirit tells him "he's your best friend, he won't do it" and he goes down, because he is his best friend.

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I'm sorry, which one?

5 minutes ago, Being of Cacophony said:

I think the one you're talking about still didn't work for me.

This, it was about becoming a squire

Spoiler

Questioner

I know Hemalurgy [has to go to mix and match powers], would it be possible to use Feruchemy for Connection to hack into multiple Knights Radiant, kind of act as a Squire to more than one at the same time.

Brandon Sanderson

Great question! I think you could make this work. I think it would take a little bit of legwork, but I think what you're wanting to do could indeed work. More likely in that case though, you could probably be a Squire to multiple Orders. *Hesitantly* Yeah...I think that would work, but I don't think it's the easiest way to do what you want to do. I think there are easier ways.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)

 

 

[Trusk'our]

3 minutes ago, therunner said:

But can Feruchemist pick and choose which Connection they store? Kel could only see various Connections because he semi-Ascended at that point, or through Shard intervention.
So far we have only seen Blank Connection, even when having 'I am friend'-Connection would have been very useful (i.e. mission to unknown lands where you don't want to fight with natives).

What he have seen, and WoBs state does not seem to support the pick and choose interpretation. Just like e.g. F-Iron you cannot store only some Connection, but generally all, In my opinion.

You can choose what Connections you store.

Quote

Calamity Denver signing (Feb. 19, 2016)

Dirigible

Can you store different types of Connection at different times? Like can you store Connection to people versus location?

Brandon Sanderson

That is possible.

With what we know from the Ars. Arcanum, Feruchemical duralumin is the ability to store and tap the ability to form Connections, not the ability to store Connection you already have. I don't think that a Feruchemist would need to form a "friendship" Connection beforehand, since they could store and Compound the ability to form it when they wanted. Whether they could direct it as one could Steel Allomancy is debatable though.

 

10 minutes ago, therunner said:

The WoB states 'changing connection', which is outside of what Feruchemist can do. They can store and tap what they already have, not modify it.
So nope, Fullborn without atium would live as long as healthy human.
And Radiant with access to Stormlight would be about as healthy, so it would be a toss up on who dies first.

Yeah, a Feruchemist couldn't change their age via Connection storing or tapping, likely since they can't affect Connections already in place in their Spiritweb.

Quote

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

Oversleep

What if a Connector tried to store his Connection to his time of birth? Because I understand that’s how spiritual age works.

Brandon Sanderson

Right, Connection to his time of birth. I’m not sure exactly how he would manage that.

I don’t think that would work, I’m not sure how you would manage it. There are other ways to make, you’re along the right path, but that’s not exactly what, the terminology it's just not working right there.

Oversleep

By the way Shadows of Self was my favourite Mistborn book. That ending was just emotional trainwreck for me. It was awesome.

Brandon Sanderson

It's weird because I think that the weakest Mistborn novel is actually Alloy of Law but I think Shadows of Self and Bands of Mourning are among the strongest.

 

[Ookla the Immortal]

6 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Leeching would leech reverse lashing, tin would give him senses to see Windrunner far in advance, steel would provide speed to avoid it, zinc mental speed to prepare, and pewter to punch Windrunner in the head to turn him into a bloody goo. 

leeching is by contact only. many of the others are invalidated because of that, and the windrunner can heal from the punch.

[Trusk'our]

29 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Jasnah ran out of Stormlight, but her plate continued to function.

Ohhhhhh wait a sec, is it more like how Hemalurgic blessings don't need extra Investiture put into them to function? They get a steady stream of energy from the spiritual realm?

I had been comparing plate to Allomantic pewter, but this would actually make sense too.

Sorry, I totally forgot about that somehow.

[therunner]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Leeching would leech reverse lashing, tin would give him senses to see Windrunner far in advance, steel would provide speed to avoid it, zinc mental speed to prepare, and pewter to punch Windrunner in the head to turn him into a bloody goo.

Few points:

1. Leeching requires touch, so no it would not do anything to Reverse Lashing, not before getting pulled through Shardblade.
2. True, if Fullborn knew where to look, and if Radiant was approaching from beyond horizon, they would get spotted around ~0.5 second ahead.
3. Not unless they were already tapping, Marasi was running out very fast, and that was ~Mach 7.
4. Same for Zinc, Fullborn would have to be tapping all the time.

Admittedly my scenario required kind of an ambush to work, but still Fullborn has no defense against Reverse Lashing.

Quote

I believe a skilled Feruchemist who trained with it would be able to do it. Just like a skilled Mistborn can push and pull on metal rod in 2 different places, not in a center. It's a matter of perception.

I disagree with that.
Yes Mistborn point is true, however, no amount of perception would allow Wax to store only weight from his hands for example, or Wayne only health of his skin for example.
In the same way I think you can store only Connection in general.

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

You can choose what Connections you store.

With what we know from the Ars. Arcanum, Feruchemical duralumin is the ability to store and tap the ability to form Connections, not the ability to store Connection you already have. I don't think that a Feruchemist would need to form a "friendship" Connection beforehand, since they could store and Compound the ability to form it when they wanted. Whether they could direct it as one could Steel Allomancy is debatable though.

If it is just ability to form connection to certain 'things', then forcing friendship is even more difficult.

[Trusk'our]

3 minutes ago, Being of Cacophony said:

leeching is by contact only. many of the others are invalidated because of that, and the windrunner can heal from the punch.

But chromium Allomancy drains Investiture. So, if the Fullborn punches his head off, wouldn't the Stormlight get drained too?

Edited February 28 by Trusk'our

[Frustration]

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Leeching would leech reverse lashing

Only if they can touch it

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Leeching wsteel would provide speed to avoid it,

Unless he's going faster than sound

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

pewter to punch Windrunner in the head to turn him into a bloody goo. 

I don't think we've ever seen anything go through plate and hit the person underneath in the same attack.

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

He does, but his spirit tells him "he's your best friend, he won't do it" and he goes down, because he is his best friend.

He's not an idiot

I don't do things my friends want becuase I'm worried about little pranks like water bottles or whipped cream, not dying

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

This, it was about becoming a squire

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

I know Hemalurgy [has to go to mix and match powers], would it be possible to use Feruchemy for Connection to hack into multiple Knights Radiant, kind of act as a Squire to more than one at the same time.

Brandon Sanderson

Great question! I think you could make this work. I think it would take a little bit of legwork, but I think what you're wanting to do could indeed work. More likely in that case though, you could probably be a Squire to multiple Orders. *Hesitantly* Yeah...I think that would work, but I don't think it's the easiest way to do what you want to do. I think there are easier ways.

DragonCon 2019 (Aug. 29, 2019)

 

 

Being a squire is different from being a Radiant, it's an entirely different kind of Connection

[Ookla the Immortal]

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

But chromium Allomancy drains Investiture. So, if the Fullborn punches his head off, wouldn't the Stormlight get drained too?

yes, but not instantly. There is a WOB about it, I just don't know where.

[Trusk'our]

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

 

1. Same for Zinc, Fullborn would have to be tapping all the time.

Admittedly my scenario required kind of an ambush to work, but still Fullborn has no defense against Reverse Lashing.

But Fullborn also have Feruchemical chromium Compounding for "spidey sense" and Allomantic tin for sharpened senses.

Would it not be outside the realm of probability that the Fullborn would sense the Windrunner ahead of time? Particularly since they are a Compounder and can tap at least a little 24/7?

[Ookla the Immortal]

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

But Fullborn also have Feruchemical chromium Compounding for "spidey sense" and Allomantic tin for sharpened senses.

Would it not be outside the realm of probability that the Fullborn would sense the Windrunner ahead of time? Particularly since they are a Compounder and can tap at least a little 24/7?

then if Windrunner stays away they run out of metal.

[Frustration]

I think a Fullborn is better off staying away from anything fancy, and just using F-Nicrosil or A-Suralumin to strengthen their steel, and then shooting iron spheres that they filled with weight at the Windrunner in rapid sucession.

[Trusk'our]

3 minutes ago, Being of Cacophony said:

yes, but not instantly. There is a WOB about it, I just don't know where.

I think I know the quote. Is this it?

Quote

ConQuest 46 (May 22, 2015)

Kaymyth

I asked the question about chromium vs a Compounder with both Invested and un-Invested metals in both their stomach and piercings.

Brandon Sanderson

What it boils down to is this:

1) Yes, the piercings will get burned off.

2) The non-Invested metals go before the Invested ones. He said that because Invested metals are harder to affect, it takes a little extra time and effort to get them to burn off. So a Leecher trying to clean out a Compounder would have to get a good grip and hang on for a few seconds.

3) Chromium burns about as quickly as duralumin, so if you're trying to burn off a lot of metals, it is possible to run out of chromium before your target is clean. This would probably only be an issue when dealing with larger pieces (like jewelry) rather than your standard metal-flakes-in-the-stomach deal.

 

1 minute ago, Being of Cacophony said:

then if Windrunner stays away they run out of metal.

Well, I meant more like the Fullborn would constantly tap or burn metal as a natural habit, similar to TLR, since they could Compound. They'd just keep enough metal stored on their person or nearby I would imagine.

[alder24]

3 minutes ago, Being of Cacophony said:

leeching is by contact only. many of the others are invalidated because of that, and the windrunner can heal from the punch.

It is, so you "contact" his hand that reverse lashing him, and tap iron to avoid being lashed, avoid a Shardblade with steel and zinc, and that strong punch in the Windrunner face who goes with that speed would kill him instantly, no healing, he turns into a blood puddle.

Just now, therunner said:

• Leeching requires touch, so no it would not do anything to Reverse Lashing, not before getting pulled through Shardblade.

tap iron

Just now, therunner said:

• True, if Fullborn knew where to look, and if Radiant was approaching from beyond horizon, they would get spotted around ~0.5 second ahead.

enough for Fullborn, he can write an 1000 page essey in his mind in that time, and use steel to still move out of Radiant's way. Not to mention bendalloy and electrum and fortune.

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

• Not unless they were already tapping, Marasi was running out very fast, and that was ~Mach 7.

zinc

2 minutes ago, therunner said:

1. Same for Zinc, Fullborn would have to be tapping all the time.

Why wouldn't he? And why wounldn't he tap fortune and burn electrum during a fight? 

3 minutes ago, therunner said:

I disagree with that.
Yes Mistborn point is true, however, no amount of perception would allow Wax to store only weight from his hands for example, or Wayne only health of his skin for example.
In the same way I think you can store only Connection in general.

Those are not different kinds of weight. Tin allows you to store different kinds of senses, for sight, hearing and even pain. It's more similar to this.

 

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Only if they can touch it

Why wouldn't he be able to do it with steel? He can always be faster than Radiant.

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Unless he's going faster than sound

And Fullborn can still avoid him, as he always thinks faster than Radiant with fortune and electrum.

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I don't think we've ever seen anything go through plate and hit the person underneath in the same attack.

Kal's spear in WoK during battle with Eshonai used an existing crack. But with enough force it will be done with one punch. But, hear me out, you don't need to punch through a plate, you simply need to stop Radiant, and g forces would do the rest with that speed.

5 minutes ago, Being of Cacophony said:

yes, but not instantly. There is a WOB about it, I just don't know where.

Duralumin+chromium would most likely do it instantly or extremely fast.

[Ookla the Immortal]

1 minute ago, Trusk'our said:

I think I know the quote. Is this it?

 

Well, I meant more like the Fullborn would constantly tap or burn metal as a natural habit, similar to TLR, since they could Compound. They'd just keep enough metal stored on their person or nearby I would imagine.

yeah, that's definitely possible.

yeah, I think that was the quote, mostly the third part.

[Trusk'our]

Just now, Being of Cacophony said:

yeah, I think that was the quote, mostly the third part.

Sweet, I got it right