Safe Copperminds

[Trusk'our]

We saw in Mistborn era 1 that Ruin was able to manipulate and change writing and even the contents of Copperminds. I wonder then, could a Feruchemist make their Copperminds safe by embedding them withing their body? Even if Ruin had the theoretical power to change what was inside them, the Investiture of the Feruchemist's body would make doing more that just wiping them seem unlikely.

Quote

The Hero of Ages Annotations (May 13, 2010)

Brandon Sanderson

The Resolution

TenSoon and the other kandra resist Ruin and are able to pull the spikes from their shoulders. There are a couple of reasons why they can do this.

The power that Allomancers have to take control of them is the same power Ruin has. That control is exerted in the form of mental pressure through emotional Allomancy. As can be seen from Marsh's viewpoint, it is more than simply forcing the body to act as Ruin wishes. The extreme pressure on emotions changes the very way the mind thinks, tricking it into doing exactly what Ruin wants. The flaw in Hemalurgists leaves them open to this kind of manipulation.

Kandra, who only have two spikes, are far more difficult to control than koloss or Inquisitors. Vin is able to control TenSoon with ease in book two, but that's partially because he wanted her to do so. He would have been able to resist her. If she'd continued to push, she could have broken him, but it would have taken time.

Even Ruin's pressure wasn't enough to take control immediately. The kandra had a few moments during which they could overcome him and maintain their free will. Beyond that, they were in a cavern surrounded by metal ore in the walls, making it very difficult for Ruin to see what was going on and interfering with his ability to control them.

 

[alder24]

It might help, however people are relatively low invested, so their glow wouldn't be as strong as metals around the caves.

[Returned]

Maybe? It's an interesting idea, and the Lord Ruler almost certainly used copperminds. He would have been aware of Ruin's abilities though, and so not relied on them, even if such a trick were effective.

But if forced to guess, I would guess no. Ruin's already able to affect people with emotional Allomancy and can implant dialgoue and visions into their minds. Its essence is permeated into everyone and everything on Scadrial. Even if Ruin couldn't see through metal very well it had no problem reaching into a metalmind (metal, so hard for a Shard to see, and also Invested) and reading the contents well enough to make the subtle changes that subverted an entire culture of Feruchemists using copperminds.

And while it's not a perfect comparison, when filled with Preservation's essence after drawing in the mists Vin was able to affect metals inside of others' bodies, including metalminds like the Lord Ruler's atium bracelets (or were they bracers? I don't remember... time for a re-read!). If the power of a Shard could do that even to metal inside another's body I'd presume that another Shard could similarly affect metals inside of people's bodies.

You have made me wonder, though, how easily and fluidly Ruin might notice a particular metalmind in a Feruchemist's body, to know to rifle through it and make changes. Ruin's capacity for that sort of thing seems large enough that it might not be a major obstacle, but its Vessel was tricked before, so maybe a different plan might involve this maneuver.

[Trusk'our]

9 hours ago, Returned said:

You have made me wonder, though, how easily and fluidly Ruin might notice a particular metalmind in a Feruchemist's body, to know to rifle through it and make changes. Ruin's capacity for that sort of thing seems large enough that it might not be a major obstacle, but its Vessel was tricked before, so maybe a different plan might involve this maneuver.

 

18 hours ago, alder24 said:

It might help, however people are relatively low invested, so their glow wouldn't be as strong as metals around the caves.

Yeah, I was thinking that hiding the Copperimnds in one's body would be more like a smokescreen than a shield. You can't overpower a Shard, but it wouldn't matter how much Investiture Ruin had if he couldn't tell what he was doing. After all, the Atium was hidden from Ruin inside of coin shipments, and Ruin wasn't able to tell that his own essence was there.

[StanLemon]

So the thing is, Ruin wasn't changing the content in the Metalmind, but was altering it as it was being stored/tapped

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 2/7/2023 at 11:09 AM, StanLemon said:

So the thing is, Ruin wasn't changing the content in the Metalmind, but was altering it as it was being stored/tapped

What? Source please.

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, IlstrawberrySeed said:

What? Source please.

This WoB:

Spoiler

Questioner

In the Well of Ascension, Kwaan says that Ruin changed the words in the Feruchemists' metalminds. Ruin can't *inaudible* metal plates. I was wondering what the difference was?

Brandon Sanderson

Because they're in the person's head before they're going in the plates. And he can affect the power as it's transcribed between. Because the power is partially him, the Power of Creation of that world. So there is a bit of him inside of every person, and as the power is going from person into plate... It's kind of like how people can hack your phone through your wifi. Does that make sense? So, that's what's going on there.