SurgeXs he/him Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 I have a feeling that Hoid may be trying to resurrect Adonalsium. It has been implied that he believes the Shattering was a mistake. Additionally, he seems to be gathering Investiture from each of the Shards. In a way, he is reuniting pieces of Adonalsium. It has also been strongly hinted that at some point, more Shards will recombine, a process that likely started with Harmony, though I have a theory that Odium has been doing something along those lines. Considering how powerful Odium seems to be, even among the other Shards, and that only Harmony's power is close to rivalling him, I believe that Odium has not truly been completely destroying other Shards. I think he is stealing the power of other Shards for himself. My theory there is that at some point, Hoid, Harmony, and characters from every planet, will face off against Odium. This makes it likely that Hoid is preparing people on each of the planets, and is trying to gather a force that can counter Odium.
alder24 Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) I do agree that Hoid wants to fix his mistake, but Odium doesn't want to change or be influenced by another Shards: Quote Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Odium wants to be the only Shard. Odium could pick up other Shards if he wants to, but, he doesn't want to. His Shard is a good match for his personality and he doesn't want to be influenced by another Shard. Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011) Odium was also wounded by his clashes with other Shards, so I don't know if he has enough power to rival Harmony: Quote Questioner You've mentioned before that Odium is scared of Harmony. Is it only because of the raw power of the two Shards? Or is he scared of what Harmony represents? (Meaning the possibility of merging two Shards.) Was he aware that this was possible? Brandon Sanderson He, on one level, was aware. But it was more of awareness of this as a possibility. It actually happening is part of what has him scared. It's the idea of the two merging Shards both being more powerful and finding a harmony. (Which Sazed is actually having way more trouble doing than Odium realizes.) Those two things really have Odium scared. Because, partially, this means he has to find a way to destroy or split Harmony without taking up a second Shard himself, because Odium knows if he takes up a second Shard, terrible things will happen. And so he doesn't want to do that. (Terrible things as he views them.) And so he's gotta find a way to split this apart, or somehow otherwise defeat. Now, the more he learns about Sazed's actual state, the less afraid he'll probably be. But that's an advantage that Sazed has right now. San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020) Hoid knows how dangerous Odium is, he probably knows what he plans to do with Cosmere, that's why he's gathering allies, to bring Odium under control, so Odium can't do more damage. But because Odium's intent is so destructive and hateful, I think Odium finds it easier to act and attack other Shards than others. It's not coming from power alone, but from intent as well. Edited January 27, 2023 by alder24 1
Returned he/him Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 I think similarly to you, OP, but I also think that we have enough Cosmere books yet to be written that Hoid's plans are probably bigger than opposing Odium and his end goal may not be quite what we assume (even though reviving Adonalsium is still my best guess too). With Odium as the main major antagonist in Stormlight so far I think that it's not going to maintain that role through the next 10+ novels that will bring the metastory to its conclusion. It would be a bit counter to Sanderson's style so far to keep the same major villain like that for so long, especially when they're so powerful and also so directly involved in many events on-camera. Although having other Vessels deal with the Shard might be enough to overcome that, so who knows? Gathering powers is intriguing, but also gives Hoid a lot more tools to work with as he goes about doing whatever he does. It could be directly related to his end goal (whatever it is), but it could also just be a means to helping him accomplish his ultimate aims. Whatever it is you want to do, it seems like it could only help to be Mistborn, and be able to Lightweave, be an Elantrian, etc.
Letryx13 Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, SurgeXs said: I have a feeling that Hoid may be trying to resurrect Adonalsium. It has been implied that he believes the Shattering was a mistake. Additionally, he seems to be gathering Investiture from each of the Shards. In a way, he is reuniting pieces of Adonalsium. It has also been strongly hinted that at some point, more Shards will recombine, a process that likely started with Harmony, though I have a theory that Odium has been doing something along those lines. Considering how powerful Odium seems to be, even among the other Shards, and that only Harmony's power is close to rivalling him, I believe that Odium has not truly been completely destroying other Shards. I think he is stealing the power of other Shards for himself. My theory there is that at some point, Hoid, Harmony, and characters from every planet, will face off against Odium. This makes it likely that Hoid is preparing people on each of the planets, and is trying to gather a force that can counter Odium. Resurrecting Adonalsium seems like a probable goal for him. But I suspect it's more likely that he's trying to become a new version of Adolnasium. He's acquiring the power of all the shards, but what he could do with that much power is concerning. I still think it's likely that Hoid is the final enemy for Sanderson's Cosmere. Odium hasn't been gathering the powers, be broke them. He locked away the powers of Devotion and Dominion, and splintered both Ambition and Honor. Hoid's and Harmony's letters state that Odium rendered the powers unusable, because he likely doesn't want to change who he is. As for Odium being stronger, it was more about how concentrated his power was, compared to the other shards. Before, he kept his power for himself, while the other shards spread their power into the worlds they watched over. It's a little different now on Roshar, but that's a big part of how he's beaten so many Shards. Since Harmony holds two Shards, He likely is more powerful, at least by one measurement, than Odium. Finally, I think Odium will be defeated in StormLight book 5. Sanderson has been pretty good about not having a single threat be prevalent for too long, at least, not in a way that the readers are aware of them. Odium was barely mentioned until WoR. The Lord Ruler didn't survive the first MistBorn book, and while Ruin influenced things through Era 1, he didn't take much direct action until THoA. Odium is the most dangerous of the sixteen; so as far as I can tell, there's really only one place to go from there. Spoiler In MistBorn Era 2, Autonomy became a major problem, but has been dealt with for the time being. She's likely to be a problem in the future. But more importantly, signs started to show that Harmony is slipping toward becoming Discord. I don't want it to happen, because Sazed is a good person, and is doing the best he can as a Shard. But if he loses control over Preservation and Ruin, then he would be a being with as much power as Honor and Odium combined, and likely with dangerous intent. What's more dangerous than the most dangerous Shard of Adonalsium? Someone wielding two Shards that can't control them comes to mind. 18 minutes ago, Returned said: I think similarly to you, OP, but I also think that we have enough Cosmere books yet to be written that Hoid's plans are probably bigger than opposing Odium and his end goal may not be quite what we assume (even though reviving Adonalsium is still my best guess too). With Odium as the main major antagonist in Stormlight so far I think that it's not going to maintain that role through the next 10+ novels that will bring the metastory to its conclusion. It would be a bit counter to Sanderson's style so far to keep the same major villain like that for so long, especially when they're so powerful and also so directly involved in many events on-camera. Although having other Vessels deal with the Shard might be enough to overcome that, so who knows? Hoid's admitted that part of the reason he's fighting Odium and Bavadin is because of a grudge. But I also think he's doing it because he wants to remove them, or at least Odium, because they're obstacles to whatever he's trying to do. The way that he's been so secretive and concealing of his true nature, even with those he's working with, like Harmony or the Radiants, makes me think that he's up to something that isn't completely positive for the Cosmere. After all, Hoid has at one point admitted that he'd sacrifice Roshar to get what he needed. And that mindset feels a little too similar to Tarravangian for my liking. Edited January 27, 2023 by Letryx13 Misspelling 1
Returned he/him Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, Letryx13 said: Hoid's admitted that part of the reason he's fighting Odium and Bavadin is because of a grudge. But I also think he's doing it because he wants to remove them, or at least Odium, because they're obstacles to whatever he's trying to do. The way that he's been so secretive and concealing of his true nature, even with those he's working with, like Harmony or the Radiants, makes me think that he's up to something that isn't completely positive for the Cosmere. After all, Hoid has at one point admitted that he'd sacrifice Roshar to get what he needed. And that mindset feels a little too similar to Tarravangian for my liking. I don't disagree, but it's hard to say how Hoid's actions fit into his goals when we don't know what the goals are. We also don't really know what's good for the Cosmere, and a lot of things that are presented to us as "good" end up not being so great when we see a fuller picture of events. I don't find the secrecy to be too damning, since one of Hoid's most valuable and practical attributes is the depth and breadth of his knowledge. Plus, once someone else knows one of his secrets he can't expect it to remain a secret; new Vessels seem to learn a lot about what older Vessles knew, and today's Shard ally might be tomorrow's Shard bitter enemy. I definitely agree that there isn't any definitive reason to think that Hoid is a hero of the story, and we've got indications (including the example you gave) that people are generally a little bit too ready to ascribe pure and beneficent motivations to him.
IlstrawberrySeed Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 45 minutes ago, Returned said: be an Elantrian Is hoid an elantrian or is this just a list of useful abilities. If the former, where is this coming from?
Frustration Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 2 minutes ago, IlstrawberrySeed said: Is hoid an elantrian or is this just a list of useful abilities. If the former, where is this coming from? He tried to become an elantrian in the epilogue of the 10th anniversary of Elantris, though he failed, but it is something he tried/is trying to do. 1
Letryx13 Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 39 minutes ago, Returned said: I don't disagree, but it's hard to say how Hoid's actions fit into his goals when we don't know what the goals are. We also don't really know what's good for the Cosmere, and a lot of things that are presented to us as "good" end up not being so great when we see a fuller picture of events. I don't find the secrecy to be too damning, since one of Hoid's most valuable and practical attributes is the depth and breadth of his knowledge. Plus, once someone else knows one of his secrets he can't expect it to remain a secret; new Vessels seem to learn a lot about what older Vessles knew, and today's Shard ally might be tomorrow's Shard bitter enemy. That's probably a good way to think of it. His biggest asset isn't the power he's gathered, it's the information he holds. That's his real edge. I guess it's the fact that he doesn't seem to really trust anyone completely that makes it difficult to see him as trustworthy.
Thanatos Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 If Hoid is trying to bring back Uncle Andy, then that means Uncle Andy had no vessel but was investiture that was self-aware.
alder24 Posted January 27, 2023 Posted January 27, 2023 (edited) Hoid collecting all invested arts gives him connection to all Shards necessary to hold them. It might be the reason why he is doing that if he wants to be Adonalsium. However I personally don't think he will remain Ado. Hoid didn't want to become a Shard during the Shattering, it would restrict him, so if he remade Ado, I think he would just give up whole power, letting it to create its own sapiency, and he would not be restricted by it. Edited January 27, 2023 by alder24 1
Letryx13 Posted January 28, 2023 Posted January 28, 2023 3 hours ago, alder24 said: Hoid collecting all invested arts gives him connection to all Shards necessary to hold them. It might be the reason why he is doing that if he wants to be Adonalsium. However I personally don't think he will remain Ado. Hoid didn't want to become a Shard during the Shattering, it would restrict him, so if he remade Ado, I think he would just give up whole power, letting it to create its own sapiency, and he would not be restricted by it. I don’t remember where, but I’m pretty sure I saw a WoB where he said that Hoid would have chosen to be a shard, if he could have gotten a specific one. But he hasn’t said which one.
alder24 Posted January 28, 2023 Posted January 28, 2023 9 hours ago, Letryx13 said: I don’t remember where, but I’m pretty sure I saw a WoB where he said that Hoid would have chosen to be a shard, if he could have gotten a specific one. But he hasn’t said which one. This one? Spoiler Paladin Brewer We know that Hoid was offered a Shard and turned it down. Was he offered a specific Shard? Brandon Sanderson He was. There is one of the Shards that he would've-- yeah. Paladin Brewer Would he have been the 17th person or did someone take his place? Brandon Sanderson No. Someone took his place. Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018) 2
Letryx13 Posted January 28, 2023 Posted January 28, 2023 31 minutes ago, alder24 said: This one? Reveal hidden contents Paladin Brewer We know that Hoid was offered a Shard and turned it down. Was he offered a specific Shard? Brandon Sanderson He was. There is one of the Shards that he would've-- yeah. Paladin Brewer Would he have been the 17th person or did someone take his place? Brandon Sanderson No. Someone took his place. Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018) That's the one, I think. He sure seems to suggest that Hood would have accepted a different shard, if he'd gotten to choose.
SurgeXs he/him Posted January 30, 2023 Author Posted January 30, 2023 On 1/27/2023 at 11:27 AM, Frustration said: He tried to become an elantrian in the epilogue of the 10th anniversary of Elantris, though he failed, but it is something he tried/is trying to do. On 1/27/2023 at 11:23 AM, IlstrawberrySeed said: Is hoid an elantrian or is this just a list of useful abilities. If the former, where is this coming from? Spoilers for SP1 Spoiler He isn't exactly an elantrian, I don't think, but he can draw aons. He gained the ability from a bet with Riina (the Sorceress) in Tress of the Emerald Sea.
SurgeXs he/him Posted January 30, 2023 Author Posted January 30, 2023 On 1/27/2023 at 11:55 AM, Letryx13 said: Resurrecting Adonalsium seems like a probable goal for him. But I suspect it's more likely that he's trying to become a new version of Adolnasium. He's acquiring the power of all the shards, but what he could do with that much power is concerning. I still think it's likely that Hoid is the final enemy for Sanderson's Cosmere. Perhaps, but given Hoid's attitude toward other characters, I don't think he would end up being an antagonist. He frequently lifts people up from their troubles, e.g. Shallan. Also, when he isn't trying to irritate people, he generally seems to want to be helpful.
offer Posted January 30, 2023 Posted January 30, 2023 41 minutes ago, SurgeXs said: SP spoilers are not allowed in this forum. Please spoiler tag this.
SurgeXs he/him Posted January 31, 2023 Author Posted January 31, 2023 23 hours ago, offer said: SP spoilers are not allowed in this forum. Please spoiler tag this. Sorry, I wasn't sure how. This is my first post on this forum.
Argenti he/him Posted April 28, 2023 Posted April 28, 2023 I've always thought Hoid is out for the "Greater good", which is a very scary thing, as we've seen with Taravangian. What's one life or a hundred or even an entire planet in the fate of the universe? If you thought Taravangian was horrifying, think about one of the oldest and craftiest beings scheming to bring about his view of the "good" ending of the cosmere. Hoid will stop at nothing for his goals, and if that includes the death and betrayal of the characters we know and love? SO BE IT.
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