Xisis = Foil?

[hankyusa]

I suspect that Xisis and Foil are the same person.

• Both live at the bottom of an ocean.
• Both are knowledgeable regarding investiture.
• Both have a particular interest in aethers. Foil wishes to control the aethers. Xisis researches the ecosystem at the bottom of the spore seas and demonstrates control over spores in the Crimson Sea.

Foil could be a slave of Xisis, except Foil communicates with Khriss, and Xisis does not let his slaves communicate with the outside. Foil could still be some other ocean-dwelling investiture expert with a specific interest controlling the aethers. What do you think?

Edited January 12, 2023 by hankyusa

[Werewolff Studios]

3 hours ago, hankyusa said:

I suspect that Xisis and Foil are the same person.

• Both live at the bottom of an ocean.
• Both are knowledgeable regarding investiture.
• Both have a particular interest in aethers. Foil wishes to control the aethers. Xisis researches the ecosystem at the bottom of the spore seas and demonstrates control over spores in the Crimson Sea.

Foil could be a slave of Xisis, except Foil communicates with Khriss, and Xisis does not let his slaves communicate with the outside. Foil could still be some other ocean-dwelling investiture expert with a specific interest controlling the aethers. What do you think?

Good stuff! I feel like this theory is basically confirmed at this point. 

[lacrossedeamon]

If Xisis is Foil the question we have to ask is this. Does Khriss know his location before it becomes general knowledge? Because if not then TotES has to be within 300 years of RoW and the Lumar and Roshar populations of Iriali have to be different.

[Ashbringer]

If the mention of golden-haired-fairy-people is indeed the Iriali in TLM, then TotES is likely very far after RoW. The Coppermind says they were on Roshar for thousands of years. Something could have advanced their timetable significantly, but I think assuming it's two different populations is hasty.

Foil could still technically be one of Xisis' servants, as I'd imagine there are ways for someone like Khriss to get information under the eyes of a dragon. But Foil being Xisis makes more sense. Not sure if Xisis would want immortal servants or not, and this doesn't feel like something where we're being misled. (A little like a certain Trell...)

[StormingTexan]

On 1/12/2023 at 1:03 AM, lacrossedeamon said:

If Xisis is Foil the question we have to ask is this. Does Khriss know his location before it becomes general knowledge? Because if not then TotES has to be within 300 years of RoW and the Lumar and Roshar populations of Iriali have to be different.

Yeah something is weird with the timeline and it is driving me crazy lol. If Xisis = Foil that puts ToTES at a maximum 300 years after RoW. Of course that is assuming the in-world info is accurate like he has been on Lumar for 300 years. We are also assuming Khriss writes the AA around the times of the books events which in the context of her mentioning Foil I think we can assume this is the case because she is talking about the discovery of anti-investiture by Navani. Interesting that he arrived and the Iriali left about the same time according to in-world sources. It really muddies up the timeline though to have Iriali on Roshar then have a maximum of 300 years in between ToTES and RoW but the Iriali left Lumar 300 years ago.. 

I really feel like it has to be Foil but not sure how you rectify the Iriali situation with this as far as the timeline and that is not even throwing the extra wrench in the works with what was said in TLM. If all this info is correct they would have been in 3 places at the same time right? Maybe one of the things we are being told is miss-direction or maybe we are just assuming the Iriali are one group traveling together when we shouldn't be. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by StormingTexan

[SingleSoul]

There could of course be two cosmere aware beeings who both like to dwell under oceans and research aethers. This would seem a little sloppy on Brandons part though. It is more likely that they are the same. 

The timeline could also work if Xisis/Foil has been based on other worlds prior to making his base on Lumar. 

 

[+Invocation]

53 minutes ago, SingleSoul said:

There could of course be two cosmere aware beeings who both like to dwell under oceans and research aethers. This would seem a little sloppy on Brandons part though. It is more likely that they are the same. 

As sloppy as that would seem...it would be kind of funny if there was one under each ocean, all of them somehow coming to the idea independently.

[The Bookwyrm]

Dragons live a long time, so I think Xisis has been on Lumar for quite a while...at least, that's the vibe I got.

This theory makes perfect sense. It's where my mind immediately went when I realized there was a being researching Aethers at the bottom of an ocean...

I don't know how the Iriali fit into it all, or how much travel there was to/from Lumar in the earlier years of the Cosmere...

But I'm 95% sure that Xisis is Foil. 

I just don't know where the name "Foil" came from. A pseudonym akin to "Frost", perhaps...?

[lacrossedeamon]

3 hours ago, SingleSoul said:

The timeline could also work if Xisis/Foil has been based on other worlds prior to making his base on Lumar. 

I hadn’t thought of this possibility. He could have been on Lumar for 300 years but at the bottom of another ocean on a different planet before that which Khriss new about. There is in fact a WOB about an underwater civilization on Roshar.

[StormingTexan]

11 hours ago, The Bookwyrm said:

I just don't know where the name "Foil" came from. A pseudonym akin to "Frost", perhaps...?

That is what I am thinking they all have nicknames like how Hoid calls Cultivation Slammer. 

 

10 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

I hadn’t thought of this possibility. He could have been on Lumar for 300 years but at the bottom of another ocean on a different planet before that which Khriss new about. There is in fact a WOB about an underwater civilization on Roshar.

But it would also have to be under an ocean on a planet that presumable has Aethers as well to study. Sure not impossible but seems like an unlikely stretch to me and I think the simplest answer is the right one. I do not think Brandon is trying to trick us on this one. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by StormingTexan

[SingleSoul]

1 hour ago, StormingTexan said:

But it would also have to be under an ocean on a planet that presumable has Aethers as well to study. Sure not impossible but seems like an unlikely stretch to me and I think the simplest answer is the right one. I do not think Brandon is trying to trick us on this one

I don't think this is too much of a stretch given that there very well could be aethers on Roshar. Midnight essence, as mentioned in another thread

If Odium has managed to control aeters/aetherbound it would make sense for Foil/Xisis to be on Roshar to study this before moving to Lumar for even better access to aethers. 

And if underwater dwellings are your preferred choice... I guess it makes a lot of sense to set up your nefarious activities in an underwater base if you have the magical power to do so. Even with modern technology it would be difficult to detect. 
 

[StormingTexan]

1 hour ago, SingleSoul said:

I don't think this is too much of a stretch given that there very well could be aethers on Roshar. Midnight essence, as mentioned in another thread

I mean on one hand we have an exact description of what Khriss says in a book and on the other we are making speculations (which agreed is fun and what this site is all about). So my opinion is this is a stretch but I do agree that there is some kind of connection between Re-Shephir and Aethers. 

 

We also have Hoid saying Cultivation is the only dragon on Roshar in the very same book Khriss talks about Foil in a way that suggest he is still on the bottom of an ocean. Of course Hoid could be wrong or just doesn't know about Foil or he meant currently but again that is all speculation opposed to the context we are given. Even if Foil was on another planet before Lumar if Hoid is correct that Cultivation is the only dragon on Roshar currently it still give us the 300 year timeline from RoW unless Foil went to another planet that Khriss is referring to. I do believe that Brandon likes to add some miss-direction but he is also a huge proponent of properly foreshadowing things and the mention of Foil in the AA of RoW and then seeing a dragon matching the description in a later book appears like we should be making this connection to me and not an attempt to trick us. 

Quote

 

“I know of just one on Roshar,” Wit noted, “and she prefers to hide her true form.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by StormingTexan

[AquaRegia]

If we are going down the rabbit hole on this, we might also postulate that it would be probably be easier for someone to set up a secret facility on the floor of the bead ocean in Shadesmar than under the Physical water ocean on Roshar.

I also think the most likely explanation is that Xisis is Foil.  His full name is Xisisrefliel.

Edited January 17, 2023 by AquaRegia

[lacrossedeamon]

Just wanted to post this here so it’s visible:

Quote

Undercoverwillshaper (paraphrased)

Are there any underwater societies or cities on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That will be a RAFO. *slides card across table*

FanX 2022 (Sept. 24, 2022)

But @StormingTexan does bring up a good point that Hoid at least thinks Cultivation is the only dragon on Roshar at the time. It is possible he is mistaken but that seems against the grain for both Hoid and Brandon.

[Brgst13]

I'm not sure but I did a reread and it only says that he has been there for at least 300 years.  He clearly prefers to work in secret, and may have been there far longer.  Riina discovered that he was there, not that he arrived.  This is an important distinction, as it suggests he predates Riina's arrival. 

[cometaryorbit]

23 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

I'm not sure but I did a reread and it only says that he has been there for at least 300 years.  He clearly prefers to work in secret, and may have been there far longer.  Riina discovered that he was there, not that he arrived.  This is an important distinction, as it suggests he predates Riina's arrival. 

Yes, I think Xisis was likely there far longer, before Riina arrived, but since he's secretive - his only interaction with the outside world seems to be trading boons for service - Riina didn't know about him at first.

I do think he's likely Foil, and Frost likely has a long "true" name like Xisisrefliel or Koravellium.

[ftl]

"Foil" could also be a short version of the same name. The dragon's full name as given in ToTES is "Xisisrefliel", and though the first part of the name is "Xisis", the "fliel" ending of the name seems pretty close to "foil".

[Friendshipspren]

Damn it. I came to the same conclusion as you and even posted it lol