Mistborn V.S. 3rd Ideal Lightweaver

[Primeival Chaos he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I'll combine these two. After locking both of them in a hallway the Lightweaver forms a shield covered in spikes, large enough to block the hallway. After that they simply walk forward. The Mistborn can't break stone, can't hit the lightweaver, and has no way to survive. 

Sorry I meant a fight where they are really close, like 5 feet away. That's what I assumed you were referring to when you said that you thought the opposite, and how a shardblade would be king in a close quarter fight.

Also, this seems like something that even Jasnah would struggle with. It's a lot of stone to make a hallway, even if it is small. Also, air is really hard to soulcast. The amount of concentration and Stormlight this would take even if the Lightweaver could do it would outweigh the benefits of it I think. There are more efficient ways to murder a Mistborn.

[alder24]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I'll combine these two. After locking both of them in a hallway the Lightweaver forms a shield covered in spikes, large enough to block the hallway. After that they simply walk forward. The Mistborn can't break stone, can't hit the lightweaver, and has no way to survive. 

Duralumin emotional allomancy, Lightweaver drops the shield, mistborn leeches, Lightweaver is dead.

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, alder24 said:

Duralumin emotional allomancy, Lightweaver drops the shield, mistborn leeches, Lightweaver is dead.

Can you use emotional allomancy though a shardblade?

You can't through plate, and that's less invested, so I'm going to say probably not.

[alder24]

Just now, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Can you use emotional allomancy though a shardblade?

You can't through plate, and that's less invested, so I'm going to say probably not.

Why not? It's not covering his entire body. His head is exposed from above, back from behind. Rocks are not aluminum.

[Primeival Chaos he/him]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Can you use emotional allomancy though a shardblade?

You can't through plate, and that's less invested, so I'm going to say probably not.

Could you even make your shardblade big enough to block an entire hallway? That's a big stretch for me. The biggest we see them get is 6 feet by a handspan or so, which is a very small hallway.

[NameIess he/him]

21 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I only think that bronze won't be able to detect illusions because secretsprens weren't able to do it in OB.

Secretspren also can't detect stormlight that is only being held, or Shardblades being summoned.

16 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Wheb Jasnah turned the stone into smoke in WoK, where did the excess mass go?

Converted into investiture, most likely.

16 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Consistently enough they are willing to bet their lives on it. And Jasnah isn't exactly great at food herself.

Jasnah can't make good food. She can make food that's edible. And even after a year of training, the Lightweavers can still only make solid chunks of food.

18 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Electrum isn't exactly cheap, and any extra you give to the mistborn you jave to give the radiant as well.

Mistborn aren't likely to have money troubles. With their powers, they'll be in insanely high demand, if only for their ability to make Mistborn metalminds. And this isn't really "extra". If I was a Mistborn, I'd try to keep enough of all my useful metals on me for an extended fight.

21 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

You aren't only keeping track of multiple shadows, but can react to them? What if the Lightweaver throws their blade at that moment? Stopping seems like a pretty good option.

You don't have to keep track of all of them. If there's a whole ton of shadows that are moving all around you and suddenly they all stop moving, reacting is not hard.

22 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

I'll combine these two. After locking both of them in a hallway the Lightweaver forms a shield covered in spikes, large enough to block the hallway. After that they simply walk forward. The Mistborn can't break stone, can't hit the lightweaver, and has no way to survive. 

A Lightweaver can't make complex shapes quickly, or at a distance. We don't even see Jasnah doing that. And Duraluminum steelpushing would break through the stone. 

[SwordNimiForPresident he/him]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Mistborn are less combat focused then Lightweavers are.

This made me lol. Thank you.

[Frustration he/him]

6 hours ago, alder24 said:

Why not? It's not covering his entire body. His head is exposed from above, back from behind. Rocks are not aluminum.

So the Allomancy goes around the shield but can't get under an aluminum hat?

6 hours ago, Primeival Chaos said:

Could you even make your shardblade big enough to block an entire hallway? That's a big stretch for me. The biggest we see them get is 6 feet by a handspan or so, which is a very small hallway.

SA 5

Spoiler

Syl got over 15 feet tall

 

6 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Converted into investiture, most likely.

Why would it do that? It was told to turn into smoke, so why did only a part of it do so?

6 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Jasnah can't make good food. She can make food that's edible. And even after a year of training, the Lightweavers can still only make solid chunks of food.

Beryl can make individual seeds.

6 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

A Lightweaver can't make complex shapes quickly, or at a distance. We don't even see Jasnah doing that. 

But we see fabrial soulcasters doing it.

6 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

And Duraluminum steelpushing would break through the stone. 

No it can't, stone trapped Vin in HoA.

5 hours ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

This made me lol. Thank you.

You're welcome.

[therunner he/him]

18 hours ago, StanLemon said:

The part of the conversation you missed is at the end of RoW she has little to no trouble Soulcasting after she stops repressing herself. This shows she could always Soulcast and it wasn't for lack of skill or talent but a mental block. She's not really a bellow average Soulcaster at all. Admittedly it is in Shadesmar where Soulcasting is easier but she still had absolutely no trouble in that scene

Yeah, and we have not yet seen her in combat after this realization did we?
Mental block still meant that she was (and maybe still is) sub-par in her actual practice of Soulcasting.

Everything we have seen Shallan do with Soulcasting was with this mental block, and she was trying to teach people while also having this mental block. I.e. we had very-sub par practitioner trying to teach people how do Soulcast (as apparently Lightweavers approach it differently)

Effectively this is the same as if we had only seen Mistborn with fear of heights who is not using his steel/iron properly, and used them as an example of how steel/iron are not useful mobility options. We should not treat personal limitation as limitation of the ability in general.

9 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Jasnah can't make good food. She can make food that's edible. And even after a year of training, the Lightweavers can still only make solid chunks of food.

Food is also much more complicated (multiple compounds, ratios of them, combination of solid and liquid, etc.)

I would expect making a block of solid stone or metal to be  'easier', if more Investiture intensive (depending on size)

9 hours ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Mistborn aren't likely to have money troubles. With their powers, they'll be in insanely high demand, if only for their ability to make Mistborn metalminds. And this isn't really "extra". If I was a Mistborn, I'd try to keep enough of all my useful metals on me for an extended fight.. 

Similarly, Lightweaver would have no trouble getting hold of very well cut gems full of Stormlight. They have unique skillset that would be in-demand + are part of effectively nobility.
Lightweaver would also keep a lot of backup spheres on them + bunch of small gemstones to tie Illusions to.

Also, what Mistborn metalminds? As far as we know no one in Basin knows how to refill Medallions, and grenades are of limited use.

Edit: (posted before finishing :/ )

Quote

You don't have to keep track of all of them. If there's a whole ton of shadows that are moving all around you and suddenly they all stop moving, reacting is not hard.

Or it means that Lightweaver soulcast Mistborn directly, that would also stop them moving (if transformed into stone).

Edited December 20, 2022 by therunner

[alder24]

8 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

So the Allomancy goes around the shield but can't get under an aluminum hat?

Yes, I guess it's because aluminum hat is covering brain all around, shardshield is not. 

Here is another way to win in your scenario - Mistborn just shoots the coin into shield and steel push it normaly, both of them are flung in opposite directions, and if Lightweaver did not think of soulcasting a wall behind him, he will be ejected from his trap and Mistborn will be free, if he did, he will be smashed into that wall. Mistborn has pewter, so he easily withstand being pushed against the wall, Lightweaver will suffer discomfort, and be unable to move. He will have to drop the shield and let the coin pass through him, and if he does that, Mistborn now can endlessly push and pull coin through Lightweaver body, draining him out of Stormlight, and killing him. Mistborn can do it with one coin, 10, 20, or whatever gives him better anchor. When Lightweaver drops his shield, Mistrorn push on his emotions with duralumin and steel pushes himself toward Lightweaver, killing him while his paralyzed.

You really underestimate Mistborn. Just because he can't heal and glow in the dark, it doesn't mean he's not fearful opponent for Radiant. Not to mention all of the metal that Lightweaver will have on his body will help Mistron strike lethal

8 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

SA 5

Spoiler

15ft but not in physical form, and it was still hard for her. It is demanding for her to be human size. So there are some limits for spren size

Spren forming a scutum or pavise, even if little bigger than normal is ok, and would be enough in this scenario, but as a big wall? That's a little stretchy, but might be possible.

6 hours ago, therunner said:

Or it means that Lightweaver soulcast Mistborn directly

Lightweaver can't soulcast Mistborn, he's too invested.

Spoiler

Blightsong

Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right?

Questioner

Is a Mistborn Invested?

Brandon Sanderson

The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no.

Blightsong

So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.

Questioner

Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

Tbf, it's quite easy to react to electrum shadows freezing - even if you don't know what could it be, it's the most logical to avoid those places where shadows are freezing. Especially when you are in the middle of movement, and know you can't lose all the momentum you already have just like that.

Edited December 20, 2022 by alder24

[StanLemon]

6 hours ago, therunner said:

Yeah, and we have not yet seen her in combat after this realization did we?
Mental block still meant that she was (and maybe still is) sub-par in her actual practice of Soulcasting.

Everything we have seen Shallan do with Soulcasting was with this mental block, and she was trying to teach people while also having this mental block. I.e. we had very-sub par practitioner trying to teach people how do Soulcast (as apparently Lightweavers approach it differently)

Effectively this is the same as if we had only seen Mistborn with fear of heights who is not using his steel/iron properly, and used them as an example of how steel/iron are not useful mobility options. We should not treat personal limitation as limitation of the ability in general.

Jasnah was the one teaching them how to Soulcast

[therunner he/him]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Lightweaver can't soulcast Mistborn, he's too invested.

  Reveal hidden contents

Blightsong

Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right?

Questioner

Is a Mistborn Invested?

Brandon Sanderson

The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no.

Blightsong

So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.

Questioner

Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.

OdysseyCon 2016 (April 8, 2016)

Tbf, it's quite easy to react to electrum shadows freezing - even if you don't know what could it be, it's the most logical to avoid those places where shadows are freezing. Especially when you are in the middle of movement, and know you can't lose all the momentum you already have just like that.

The WoB only says it would be harder, not that it is not possible. Additonally, the connections in the spiritweb are there for Radiant (their spiritweb is connected to spren) not for Mistborn (as far as we know), so the second part applies to Radiants only.

Well, it is easier, but you need to keep track of them. Plus, directly soulcasting mistborn (or just clothing of Mistborn) is not something you can avoid by dodging, there is nothing to dodge.

Thinking about it, Soulcasting just clothing of mistborn to e.g. aluminum would be a good option to hinder their mobility. And the clothing is neither invested, nor constantly changing around (like flowing air would), so it should not be difficult to target.

1 hour ago, StanLemon said:

Jasnah was the one teaching them how to Soulcast

Ok thank you for correction. Still then, it is noted that Lightweavers and Elsecallers approach the Surge differently (RoW ch 26), so she is not an ideal teacher for them.

Edited December 20, 2022 by therunner

[alder24]

26 minutes ago, therunner said:

The WoB only says it would be harder, not that it is not possible. Additonally, the connections in the spiritweb are there for Radiant (their spiritweb is connected to spren) not for Mistborn (as far as we know), so the second part applies to Radiants only.

It would be harder for Jasnah. And we've never seen Jasnah soulcasting Fused, even in OB when 3 realms were almost one with unlimited Stormlight. And the WoB clearly says:

Quote

yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.

Both Mistborn and Radient do have connections in SR (to the Shards, powers, invstiture etc) that make soulcasting them very hard for Jasnah. It would be almost impossible for average Lightweaver to soulcast Mistborn, especially when they are worst at soulcasting at a distance than Elsecallers.

Spoiler

Questioner

Is Jasnah being able to Soulcast at a distance the resonance of her two Surges or is that just a Radiant thing that's not with the fabrials. 

Brandon Sanderson

Jasnah's Order is better at that than others. It is not impossible that you could imagine a Lightweaver being able to do it.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

"It is not impossible that you could imagine a Lightweaver being able to do it." - the way this is worded suggests it's not the norm for average Lightweaver to soulcast at a distance.

[NameIess he/him]

10 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Why would it do that? It was told to turn into smoke, so why did only a part of it do so?

Where else would it go? Mass cannot be created or destroyed, only change forms. So it must've turned into smoke, turned into energy, or turned into Investiture.

10 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Beryl can make individual seeds.

Still, a lot of them can't.

10 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

But we see fabrial soulcasters doing it.

We do not see fabrial soulcasters creating complex shapes. We know that they created the barracks, but they probably made them in sections, using multiple Soulcasters in tandem.

10 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

No it can't, stone trapped Vin in HoA.

She was trapped deep underground, not in a hallway. And what exactly is the Radiant going to do when their Shardshield gets duraluminum pushed. The Mistborn can throw a couple coins onto both the shield and the wall behind them, then duraluminum push, or even just normal push.

9 hours ago, therunner said:

Food is also much more complicated (multiple compounds, ratios of them, combination of solid and liquid, etc.)

I would expect making a block of solid stone or metal to be  'easier', if more Investiture intensive (depending on size)

agreed.

9 hours ago, therunner said:

Similarly, Lightweaver would have no trouble getting hold of very well cut gems full of Stormlight. They have unique skillset that would be in-demand + are part of effectively nobility.
Lightweaver would also keep a lot of backup spheres on them + bunch of small gemstones to tie Illusions to.

I agree. Still, chromium will drain any amount of Stormlight very quickly, bronze will negate illusions, and Soulcasting huge chunks of stone will use quite a lot of Stormlight.

9 hours ago, therunner said:

Also, what Mistborn metalminds? As far as we know no one in Basin knows how to refill Medallions, and grenades are of limited use.

The reasoning that we were given as to why there are no medallions that give all the powers is conflicting identity. Assuming allomancy medallions can be made, a Mistborn could make medallions that give all 16 powers, as their identity would not conflict with itself.

[Frustration he/him]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Yes, I guess it's because aluminum hat is covering brain all around, shardshield is not. 

No it's not, their head is exposed from beneath. As long as the shield is between them and the Mistborn they should be fine.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

Here is another way to win in your scenario - Mistborn just shoots the coin into shield and steel push it normaly, both of them are flung in opposite directions, and if Lightweaver did not think of soulcasting a wall behind him, he will be ejected from his trap and Mistborn will be free, if he did, he will be smashed into that wall. Mistborn has pewter, so he easily withstand being pushed against the wall, Lightweaver will suffer discomfort, and be unable to move. He will have to drop the shield and let the coin pass through him, and if he does that, Mistborn now can endlessly push and pull coin through Lightweaver body, draining him out of Stormlight, and killing him. Mistborn can do it with one coin, 10, 20, or whatever gives him better anchor. When Lightweaver drops his shield, Mistrorn push on his emotions with duralumin and steel pushes himself toward Lightweaver, killing him while his paralyzed.

Just don't drop the shield, the Lightweaver weighs more than the Mistborn does, by probably a good thirty pounds or more, so they get sent flying first. With only a slight rounding on the shield the coins will roll off of it. And even if they get slammed up against a wall they can last longer than the Mistborn can, just run them out of steel.

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

You really underestimate Mistborn. Just because he can't heal and glow in the dark, it doesn't mean he's not fearful opponent for Radiant. Not to mention all of the metal that Lightweaver will have on his body will help Mistron strike lethal

Fused are barely a threat and they are far more dangerous than a Mistborn is.

18 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Where else would it go? Mass cannot be created or destroyed, only change forms. So it must've turned into smoke, turned into energy, or turned into Investiture.

Oh I agree that's where it went, but my question was why.

18 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

We do not see fabrial soulcasters creating complex shapes. We know that they created the barracks, but they probably made them in sections, using multiple Soulcasters in tandem.

A hallway isn't a complex shape.

19 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

She was trapped deep underground, not in a hallway.

But the wall to the main cavern was just a thick.

20 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

And what exactly is the Radiant going to do when their Shardshield gets duraluminum pushed. The Mistborn can throw a couple coins onto both the shield and the wall behind them, then duraluminum push, or even just normal push.

Take the blow and keep going. That doesn't kill them, and it wastes far more of the Mistborn's resources than it does theirs.

22 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

The reasoning that we were given as to why there are no medallions that give all the powers is conflicting identity. Assuming allomancy medallions can be made, a Mistborn could make medallions that give all 16 powers, as their identity would not conflict with itself.

Which requires excisors. Which I would argue count as a separate magic system.

[NameIess he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Oh I agree that's where it went, but my question was why.

Because otherwise it would kill people, and Brandon doesn't want that to happen.

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

A hallway isn't a complex shape.

And we don't see anyone come anywhere near to making one. The closest we see anyone come to that is Jasnah soulcasting steps.

4 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

But the wall to the main cavern was just a thick.

It was probably thicker and heavier than anything a Lightweaver could quickly make.

5 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Take the blow and keep going. That doesn't kill them, and it wastes far more of the Mistborn's resources than it does theirs.

A normal steelpush? How do you keep going? You'd have to let the coin pass through the shield in order to do that.

5 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Which requires excisors. Which I would argue count as a separate magic system.

I'm not saying the Mistborn would use that in battle, I'm saying that they could make ludicrous amounts of money by selling them. 

[Frustration he/him]

12 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

Because otherwise it would kill people, and Brandon doesn't want that to happen.

That's the narrative answer. What's the in universe answer?

13 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

And we don't see anyone come anywhere near to making one. The closest we see anyone come to that is Jasnah soulcasting steps.

They made multiple barracks with fabrials, which are more restrictive than Surgebinders.

14 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

A normal steelpush? How do you keep going? You'd have to let the coin pass through the shield in order to do that.

It doesn't matter if they're moving forward, only that they are trying to. They can keep walking for far longer than a mistborn can burn steel.

[StanLemon]

26 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Fused are barely a threat and they are far more dangerous than a Mistborn is.

Uh no. I'm putting my foot down on this. Any mistborn with all 16 metals would crush any Fused we've seen so far

On a different note. Soulcasting. Everyone, especially those in favor of the Radiant, needs to remember that Soulcasting is far and away the most Investiture intensive Surgebinding we have seen. A full sized gemstone, not a broam, a gemstone cracked handling the Soulcasting of a boulder to smoke. In RoW when Jasnah Soulcasts the air into oil, that drains all the gems on her wrist. Radiants can't spam Soulcasting without a Perpendicularity so if they mess up even once that's likely it as far as Soulcasting goes for the fight

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, StanLemon said:

Uh no. I'm putting my foot down on this. Any mistborn with all 16 metals would crush any Fused we've seen so far

Lezian the Pursuer.

If he does that knife neck trick he did on Kaladin the Mistborn dies. It doesn't matter who they are, Kelsier, Vin, Zane, Elend, they just die.

2 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

On a different note. Soulcasting. Everyone, especially those in favor of the Radiant, needs to remember that Soulcasting is far and away the most Investiture intensive Surgebinding we have seen. A full sized gemstone, not a broam, a gemstone cracked handling the Soulcasting of a boulder to smoke.

That was done intentionally. Fabrials break gemstones a lot more than radiants do.

[Letryx13]

31 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

And we don't see anyone come anywhere near to making one. The closest we see anyone come to that is Jasnah soulcasting steps.

I think a lot of the barracks in the war camps were made by soulcasting fabrials, that's why they all looked alike.  Even if they were done in segments, a hallway doesn't seem unreasonable.

 It's hard to compare soulcasting fabrials with soulcasting radiants, but I suspect they could pull it off.

8 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Uh no. I'm putting my foot down on this. Any mistborn with all 16 metals would crush any Fused we've seen so far

I don't know, the Fuzed that grow their carapace into weapons and armor would be difficult to deal with. Even with Pewter. Steel would help with shooting coins, but one of them withstood a punch from Jasnah in plate without budging.  Their carapace armor seems pretty strong. 

[StanLemon]

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Lezian the Pursuer.

If he does that knife neck trick he did on Kaladin the Mistborn dies. It doesn't matter who they are, Kelsier, Vin, Zane, Elend, they just die.

Bronze should be able to track him just fine, Pewter to match his strength, Chromium to drain his Voidlight. He caught Kaladin by surprise because visibility was bad

1 minute ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

That was done intentionally. Fabrials break gemstones a lot more than radiants do.

Proof that it was intentional? As far as I'm aware that's nothing more than a fan theory that Jasnah was trying to deliberately obfuscate even though she had little reason to. Is there a WoB confirming this?

[alder24]

Spoiler

Sorana (paraphrased)

Is Soulcasting volume- or mass-preserving?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's mass-preserving, but there are some strange things going on and that's why we don't get as much explosions as we should. You can see a bit of what is going on when Jasnah Soulcasts air, there are some little reactions, but not as strong as you ought to get.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

ReaderAt2046

Is Soulcasting mass-conservative (Soulcast a 1kg goblet, you get 1 kg of blood)?

Brandon Sanderson

In most circumstances, yes.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

Soulcasting is mass-preserving if you still can't agree.

54 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

No it's not, their head is exposed from beneath. As long as the shield is between them and the Mistborn they should be fine.

Even if that's the case, duralumin push can do it.

Spoiler

Questioner

Would Allomancy affect Shardplate or Shardblades?

Brandon Sanderson

It cannot affected Shardblades. Well, "cannot" is a strong word. Things with innate investiture are much more difficult to affect with any of the magics at all. Which is why it's very hard, for instance-- Szeth is not able to bind people, or Lash people wearing Shardplate to the ceiling. In the same Allomancy would not be able to Push on it without some help. Duralumin and a really strong [Steel]Push could probably do it. 

Questioner

I was just wondering if it's actually metal.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yes. It is metal-ish... it is metal enough for Allomancy to work on it.

Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

 

54 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Just don't drop the shield, the Lightweaver weighs more than the Mistborn does, by probably a good thirty pounds or more, so they get sent flying first. With only a slight rounding on the shield the coins will roll off of it. And even if they get slammed up against a wall they can last longer than the Mistborn can, just run them out of steel.

Run out of steel? That's gonna take a lot of time. Lightweaver will lose all Stormlight sooner. And Mistborn simply can aim coins for the bottom of the shield, imbalancing and exposing Lightweaver head. Shields are being held on singular pivot point. Or push coins below/above the shield and behind Lightweaver to endlessly push and pull it through his body.

54 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

Fused are barely a threat and they are far more dangerous than a Mistborn is.

For whom? Kaladin? Because Sigzil almost died in first battle of RoW. Some died fighting them. Not to mention how the Tower fell. Fused are a threat, just because Kaladin and Jasnah can deal with them, it doesn't mean that they are not a threat.

 

9 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Proof that it was intentional?

Spoiler

Coltonx9

Why do the gems in Jasnah's Soulcaster break when she is using her own ability in the first book?

Brandon Sanderson

Jasnah is very good at fooling people.

Footnote: This may be a mistake. Shallan has also caused gems to crack when Soulcasting in Words of Radiance chapter 7.
Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 22, 2018)

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by alder24

[NameIess he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

That's the narrative answer. What's the in universe answer?

I don't know. Brandon says that most of the time it preserves mass:

Spoiler

Sorana (paraphrased)

Is Soulcasting volume- or mass-preserving?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's mass-preserving, but there are some strange things going on and that's why we don't get as much explosions as we should. You can see a bit of what is going on when Jasnah Soulcasts air, there are some little reactions, but not as strong as you ought to get.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

 

ReaderAt2046

Is Soulcasting mass-conservative (Soulcast a 1kg goblet, you get 1 kg of blood)?

Brandon Sanderson

In most circumstances, yes.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

But unless I'm mistaken we don't know what happens when it doesn't.

6 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

They made multiple barracks with fabrials, which are more restrictive than Surgebinders.

The only example we have of fabrial Soulcasters being used to create something like the barracks, there were five of them working together and they took a while to make it. And that was just a windbreak, not something complex like a barracks.

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated. said:

It doesn't matter if they're moving forward, only that they are trying to. They can keep walking for far longer than a mistborn can burn steel.

The Mistborn can crush them against the wall with steel, forcing them to dismiss their blade.

[StanLemon]

@alder24I stand corrected,  though it still seems like a pointless deception. And as the footnote indicates Radiants can still break them accidentally. That doesn't change the RoW scene showing a massive amount of Stormlight is still used.

[Frustration he/him]

18 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Bronze should be able to track him just fine, Pewter to match his strength, Chromium to drain his Voidlight. He caught Kaladin by surprise because visibility was bad

I would be surprised if bronze could track him. And he is way stronger than someone with pewter. And he doesn't need more voidlight, he will appear, grab the mistborn from behind, and stab then through the neck 

18 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Proof that it was intentional? As far as I'm aware that's nothing more than a fan theory that Jasnah was trying to deliberately obfuscate even though she had little reason to. Is there a WoB confirming this?

Here 

Spoiler

Coltonx9

Why do the gems in Jasnah's Soulcaster break when she is using her own ability in the first book?

Brandon Sanderson

Jasnah is very good at fooling people.

Footnote: This may be a mistake. Shallan has also caused gems to crack when Soulcasting in Words of Radiance chapter 7.
Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 22, 2018)

 

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorana (paraphrased)

Is Soulcasting volume- or mass-preserving?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's mass-preserving, but there are some strange things going on and that's why we don't get as much explosions as we should. You can see a bit of what is going on when Jasnah Soulcasts air, there are some little reactions, but not as strong as you ought to get.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

ReaderAt2046

Is Soulcasting mass-conservative (Soulcast a 1kg goblet, you get 1 kg of blood)?

Brandon Sanderson

In most circumstances, yes.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

Soulcasting is mass-preserving if you still can't agree.

Not entirely, otherwise when Jasnah turned the boulder into stone it would have killed everyone.

12 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

I don't know. Brandon says that most of the time it preserves mass:

  Reveal hidden contents

Sorana (paraphrased)

Is Soulcasting volume- or mass-preserving?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's mass-preserving, but there are some strange things going on and that's why we don't get as much explosions as we should. You can see a bit of what is going on when Jasnah Soulcasts air, there are some little reactions, but not as strong as you ought to get.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

 

ReaderAt2046

Is Soulcasting mass-conservative (Soulcast a 1kg goblet, you get 1 kg of blood)?

Brandon Sanderson

In most circumstances, yes.

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

But unless I'm mistaken we don't know what happens when it doesn't.

It's so much easier for it to be a SR/CR change that causes the PR to scramble in an attempt to reflect that and it doesn't always get it right.

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Even if that's the case, duralumin push can do it.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Would Allomancy affect Shardplate or Shardblades?

Brandon Sanderson

It cannot affected Shardblades. Well, "cannot" is a strong word. Things with innate investiture are much more difficult to affect with any of the magics at all. Which is why it's very hard, for instance-- Szeth is not able to bind people, or Lash people wearing Shardplate to the ceiling. In the same Allomancy would not be able to Push on it without some help. Duralumin and a really strong [Steel]Push could probably do it. 

Questioner

I was just wondering if it's actually metal.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh yes. It is metal-ish... it is metal enough for Allomancy to work on it.

Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014)

 

Which would act like a regular soothing, which we know is not debilitating, and it would only last a second. 

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Run out of steel? That's gonna take a lot of time. Lightweaver will lose all Stormlight sooner. And Mistborn simply can aim coins for the bottom of the shield, imbalancing and exposing Lightweaver head. Shields are being held on singular pivot point. Or push coins below/above the shield and behind Lightweaver to endlessly push and pull it through his body.

Steel is one of the fastest burning of the basic eight metals, and stormlight in gems will last far longer. Pushing on the bottom won't help when they can add braces.

15 minutes ago, alder24 said:

For whom? Kaladin? Because Sizgil almost died in first battle of RoW. Some died fighting them. Not to mention how the Tower fell. Fused are a threat, just because Kaladin and Jasnah can deal with them, it doesn't mean that they are not a threat.

Basically anyone. The only Radiants who died outside the tower suppression was a single unnamed Windrunner, of unknown ideal, and one squire. That's it. A year of fighting for essentially one death. The tower fell became the Radiants own advantage was turned against them, not because Fused are powerful. 

12 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

The only example we have of fabrial Soulcasters being used to create something like the barracks, there were five of them working together and they took a while to make it. And that was just a windbreak, not something complex like a barracks.

Fabrials are more restrictive, and have far more limited stormlight. 

12 minutes ago, UnfortunatelyNamed said:

The Mistborn can crush them against the wall with steel, forcing them to dismiss their blade.

Why would that force them to do anything? Sit there and wait them out.

Edited December 20, 2022 by Ookla the Frustrated.