Why the radiance seem a lot stronger than the Fused? Fused's powers possibly scale with radiant ideals

[+Bzhydack he/him]

26 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I don't see the numbers of Radiants or the fact that the majority were basically noncombatants as being that relevant, because I don't think numbers would let "normal" form singers (including warform, but not Forms of Power*) win against combat-heavy Radiants (like Skybreakers) as long as they had Stormlight. Given (Mistborn spoilers)

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how trivially Vin and Zane deal with normal soldiers in a fortified keep

and that the more combative Radiant orders, by 3rd Ideal, are almost certainly deadlier than Mistborn...

*The False Desolation was an exception, when Ba-Ado-Mishram did weird Connection things; I don't think Forms of Power were available between Desolations otherwise.

But the rest of the points are valid.

Im not sure we can translate this situation from Mistborn to our divagations.

First, Zane was constantly on Atium and this makes him absurdly stronger than any Radiant of 3d Ideal, and much deadlier against normal troops.

Second, Radiant is of course harder to kill than Mistborn, and have more raw power, but this not makes him deadlier. I would argue than in some circumstances Mistborn can be much deadlier than Radiant. Can use almost everything around him as projectiles, and they are also unlimited, because can easily recover them by simply Pulling, and his power alone forced enemies to fight without advanced weapons and protective gear. Right, against Shardblade armor is irrelevant, but against any projectiles is very usefull, and meele weapon, even deadly as Shardblade, isnt as deadly as ranged weapon with almost unlimited ammo.

[cometaryorbit]

OK, fine, but

Spoiler

Vin was not burning atium and still killed or took out of combat at least 60 people (I remember 50 normal soldiers + 10 hazekillers, would have to re-read the scene to see if there were others).

Skybreakers have Division, and we haven't seen that really used on-screen, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't as or more effective as shooting coins. Even without that, though, being basically invulnerable to normal soldiers means they can take more risks, and are way harder to stop.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

17 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

OK, fine, but

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Vin was not burning atium and still killed or took out of combat at least 60 people (I remember 50 normal soldiers + 10 hazekillers, would have to re-read the scene to see if there were others).

Skybreakers have Division, and we haven't seen that really used on-screen, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't as or more effective as shooting coins. Even without that, though, being basically invulnerable to normal soldiers means they can take more risks, and are way harder to stop.

Spoiler

Vin was able to do that only because of envirnoment and Duralumin (was able to Pull stained glass from around her), if envirnoment would be less "friendly" (for her) she would die.

And Radiants still are less efficient with power than Mistborn, more even, their power need to be carry externaly, while Mistborn can carry fuel (ok, not literally fuel, because metal is not source of power, it just chanels power. Im adding this because Frustration would pop up and yell: "Metal isnt power source!!!, not carrying that it is irrelevant for this discution. lets simplyfy things) inside his stomach. And for Radiant is enough to someone grab him and rip off pouches/bags/even shirt or coat with gems, and carry/throw away. Or just cut this. It can be even few, even many suicidal attempts, and ane succesfull attack would be enough. And yes, Radiants can take greater risks, but this also mean they can overcommit and suddenly find themselves without Stormlight, so without powers. And this mean death.

[cometaryorbit]

9 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

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Vin was able to do that only because of envirnoment and Duralumin (was able to Pull stained glass from around her), if envirnoment would be less "friendly" (for her) she would die.

 

True, but I'm basically arguing a high combat Radiant* by 3rd ideal is at least as deadly as a Mistborn with Duralumin.

*But that combat focused Radiant has much less ability in other areas. Kaladin, for example, is much better at flight than any Mistborn, but his powers are basically all about Lashing things ... well, plus Stormlight's basic physical enhancement, and Blade and Plate... but they are all very physical things. No emotional powers, no magic-sensing like a Mistborn gets from bronze, etc. Similarly a Skybreaker or Dustbringer has none of that, but really awesome physical combat powers.

Atium, of course, is crazy powerful. But I actually think a KR would have a decent chance against most Mistborn with atium. The Mistborn would dodge the KR's Shardblade or Surge attacks and inflict normally-lethal wounds -- but I think KR would be likely to have Stormlight healing that would last longer than the Mistborn's atium. (Barring really unusually large quantities of atium, or very limited Stormlight.)

36 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

And for Radiant is enough to someone grab him and rip off pouches/bags/even shirt or coat with gems, and carry/throw away. Or just cut this.

Couldn't the Radiant just wear jewelry? (For that matter, do we actually know swallowing gems wouldn't work? Maybe just no one on-screen has thought of it.)

37 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

 And yes, Radiants can take greater risks, but this also mean they can overcommit and suddenly find themselves without Stormlight, so without powers. And this mean death.

Oh, that's absolutely a possibility, but, the possibility of bad strategy/tactics on the Radiant's part doesn't mean their power set isn't stronger in combat than the Mistborn's.

[Frustration]

10 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 No that's wrong  The wind runners and stonewards  Had around 200 4th ideal radiance near one fort.  There's no reason to assume that was the entire force  And even if it was The ignores 1st 2nd ideal radiance, Not to mention the Squires. Even if the wind runners had 10  Squires to every 1  knight there Then that would be a 1000.  Kalidon had a lot more than 10.  So with the added mind let's say 20 Squires per every 4th ideal knight ( Is still on the conservative side)  That makes it up to 2000 there's your low thousand. 

 

 I said the knights radiant at its height  Not The bond Smith order. Besides the most likely reason why there was only one bondsmith was because they only needed 1. 

Squires aren't radiant.

And the fact that they only had one Bondsmiths was seen as different from the past, so at least 2 was the norm.

9 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

   I find those numbers very doubtful the visions we see of the true desolation show mainly regular humais the regular human soldiers with here and there somewhere someone in plate. More likely I think the large orders had a few dozen( Not counting Squires) at best slightly a little more than they do now.

They said that it was only Windrunners and stonewards.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

20 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Oh, that's absolutely a possibility, but, the possibility of bad strategy/tactics on the Radiant's part doesn't mean their power set isn't stronger in combat than the Mistborn's.

I think we should stop, we are not arguing witch one is stronger here. Last time this took like 60 pages in one topic...

It is like comparing multi-purpose vehicle to the tank. In one v one brawl Radiant probably will win, but there is too  many factors to simply compare them.

21 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Couldn't the Radiant just wear jewelry? (For that matter, do we actually know swallowing gems wouldn't work? Maybe just no one on-screen has thought of it.)

Probably jewelry would be too small to contain enough Stormlight. Of course, they can do that.

Swalowing gems.... I think should work. Of course, gems also need to be small enough to be swallowed, If I remember correctly Broam is too big for this, but I can be wrong.

[bmcclure7]

59 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Squires aren't radiant.

And the fact that they only had one Bondsmiths was seen as different from the past, so at least 2 was the norm.

They said that it was only Windrunners and stonewards.

 Doesn't matter, The question wasn't how many knights radiance there were it was  what was the size of the orders. Squires are part of the orders. 

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

Squires aren't radiant.

And the fact that they only had one Bondsmiths was seen as different from the past, so at least 2 was the norm.

They said that it was only Windrunners and stonewards.

 I think we're talking about 2 different visions  I was talking about divisions from the true desolations you seem to be talking about the vision of the false desolation 1000 year after. 

[Frustration]

48 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Doesn't matter, The question wasn't how many knights radiance there were it was  what was the size of the orders. Squires are part of the orders. 

Please don't double post.(Posting twice before someone else does.)

I woudn't count them, but even if you do, Squires are still on Fused level.

46 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 I think we're talking about 2 different visions  I was talking about divisions from the true desolations you seem to be talking about the vision of the false desolation 1000 year after. 

We only see a handful of Radiants during the desolations, not like the recreance where we saw two full orders.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

I woudn't count them, but even if you do, Squires are still on Fused level.

Squires are nowhere near fused level. Even discounting the massive skill difference and stormlight efficiency, squires are vulnerable to fused stormlight-sucky things.

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

We only see a handful of Radiants during the desolations, not like the recreance where we saw two full orders.

We don't really see the desolations though. We see the aftermath of them, but not the desolations themselves.

[Kandrafish]

Here is an out there idea...            

What if Nale's idea to kill people with radiant powers manifesting wasn't so unique.

I believe that Odium's side had human agents and I think that the Faceless ones could survive between desolations. What if between desolations, Faceless ones were serial to-be-radiant killers and the Skybreakers hunted them down. 

 

* means extra speculative

Now, this relies on a longer more complicated theory that I have...

So, addressing the main thread:

I would like to weigh in and say that maybe there is a more mundane reason as to why so many humans died in the desolations.

0) Rayse/ Odium and his forces should be less powerful. This is a 2 vs 1 situation with Honour and Cultivation. Odium likely only survived through surprise and by fighting smarter. (The unmade can do a lot of damage if put in the right places at the right time and he probably surprised the others when he chose the Singers. He likely chose them because they had-- I assume-- a larger populace* and a more unified front)

1) At the start there were no Radiants and only Heralds. The Heralds would, on their own, were OP enough to win against the fused. Let us assume at a cost... Lots less humans.

2) Heralds continue to fight a losing battle because too many humans are dying.

3) Stuff Develops-- Knights Radiant save humans from the brink of extinction. But... They are limited because there are only so many worthy humans and spren willing to bond.

4) Radiants Swell and are too overpowered. But there are no war crimes because if innocents were attacked the Windrunners and other orders would defend them.

5) The Radient numbers stay too small to be overpowered because the fused kill them in small numbers and do not die. Also, lots of dead humans means less worthy humans.

6) The enemy gets desperate: they employ desperate measures and create plagues (Raboniel) and plan assassinations (per my theory above... I hope you like it.)

7) The wills of the Heralds are weakening and desolations come to close together --> The enemy starts winning again and the smaller the human population gets the less percent honorable people to become knights radiant.

8) But, Radiants have reached higher oaths and are so overpowered now even in small numbers the humans win.

9) There is a super successful battle because of the Radiants and all of the Heralds survive and there are so many Radiants who are all so powerful. So Jezrien thinks "Storm it! With Radiants like these, who needs Heralds!"

10) Taln sits in Braize for 1000 years (wonders where his friends are)--> No fused means populations swell and Radiants kill off any remaining fused (serial killers*). Radiants numbers should swell as well. War between Singers and Humans is negligible. Humans think they won. Singers are hiding or something.

11) 2000 years (and Taln is sure his friends got lost and went to the wrong planet) --> The Radiants are now very overpowered and have a large group of them. 

12) False Desolation is a slaughter for the Radiants and Ba Ado Mishram gets captured in a gemstone and Parshmen are created. 

13) Recreance happens and the OP Radiants give away their weapons so that the grateful people can start slaughtering each other.

I don't have any detailed Hierocracy theories, yet, so we stop here.

 

Anyway, I agree. I think that Odium would have lost to Radiants at full strength. But I think he must have needed to keep killing them and keeping the human population low. I think the inflated Radiant numbers are a result of counting them after thousands of years of piece.

I think that we can probably model the number of Radiants as a function of population. Say 0.01% of people have the right kind of honor (this could be an overestimation).

Fused are not a function of population, so the closer both races are to extinction, the better it is for Odium. (That means that the Iri and Rirans probably threw a wrench in Rayse's plans.)

Now, in addition, lets say that the Singers have their scholar form between desolations. This adds a whole other element to Odium fighting smarter... I agree with all the people saying you can underestimate the common singer as well because of this, but I don't really want to go through all of the ways that Odium could beat a more powerful foe (the Radiants). 

Instead, I will say that the singers had the power of discovering information faster before Ba Ado Mishram was captured. After that all the knowledge was lost and those people became slaves.

 

Now (during our books)

On another note, the human armies know what they are doing and don't have to waste Radiant's on training troops. Fused do. Humans have the power of information and are on home turf.

Also, someone brought up Dalinar's perpendicularity making Radiant's more effective. I want to add to that. If humans got reduced to the stone ages there would be less cut gemstones and the Fused have powers that work without voidlight. 

A larger population would require more currency and more gemstones which also helps modern day Radiants. 

As a final note, humanity may have grown complacent, but it still had wars. This is part of why Kaladin is such a good fighter. Practice. On the other hand, how dejected would you be as a Fused after waiting 4000 years and seeing Taln still sitting there. I think some fused could be extremely out of practice if after 2000 years they concluded that Taln was not breaking and just stopped training .

In conclusion, I think that the Fused are significantly less powerful than a Radiant with stormlight. The fused lost all of the Desolations, but by keeping human casualties at a maximum they reduced the human population in any way possible. This reduced the ability of that population to produce people with the right ideals to become Radiant and it reduced the ability for people to build up as a society and stone age societies don't have much use for polished or cut gemstones. After Taln had held out for 2000+ years, humanity would have grown significantly. More people making more gems and more Radiants. These Radiants were overpowered and that is why the false desolation failed. The overpoweredness of modern Radiants and the lack of Ba Ado Mishram and the Singers being slaves all of their life, is why humanity is still around. The Radiants are very powerful, but I think that they must have been evenly matched by Rayse's ingenuity and relatively weaker power. We could even assume that it was that trademark Rayse craftiness that caused the massive numbers of Radiants to disband on the day of the recreance. We know that the Iri and the Skybreakers fight for him now because of political maneuvering. Who knows what else Rayse might have done to level the playing field without having to go head-to-head against the Knights Radiance.

[Frustration]

11 hours ago, Nameless said:

Squires are nowhere near fused level. Even discounting the massive skill difference and stormlight efficiency, squires are vulnerable to fused stormlight-sucky things.

Given what we see in the books I have to disagree. Fused "Skill" if you can call it that is non-existant, Leshwie is the only one that actually does anything with it, and that ammounts to her playing a high stakes game of tag with Kaladin.

Lezian is noted as not being a fighter, even after 7,000 years.

[NameIess]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Given what we see in the books I have to disagree. Fused "Skill" if you can call it that is non-existant, Leshwie is the only one that actually does anything with it, and that ammounts to her playing a high stakes game of tag with Kaladin.

Lezian is noted as not being a fighter, even after 7,000 years.

No, Lezian is not a soldier. He is an extremely skilled fighter. He almost killed Kaladin in their first encounter, despite Kaladin having an abundance of stormlight. He only dies the first time because of his overconfidence, and he dies the second time because Kaladin gets inside his head. (And, y'know, Kaladin is Kaladin)

Leshwi just about killed Sigzil, a third ideal radiant. Sure, there were no casualties in the fight above Hearthstone, but Kaladin left the less experienced squires out of the battle, and the windrunners as a whole fought defensively. The fused in general are more skilled than the radiants, but the radiants have a big advantage in power when they have stormlight. We haven't seen a battle between radiants and fused where Dalinar hasn't been constantly refilling their stormlight. in a normal battle, squires would run out of stormlight very quickly, and even ignoring their skill difference, when a battle lasts for hours, it will eventually be impossible to keep hundreds of squires supplied with stormlight, especially if you have to think about having another battle before the highstorm refuels you. Fused can get voidlight whenever they want, and use far less than radiants. So radiants win at first, then fall off hard as time stretches on.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

15 hours ago, Frustration said:

We only see a handful of Radiants during the desolations, not like the recreance where we saw two full orders.

Only about 10-15% of the Windunners (there were around 2000 bonded honorspren, while there were 300 Stonewards + Windrunners combined in the vision), though we don't know what Ideal the others were at.

[Frustration]

25 minutes ago, Nameless said:

No, Lezian is not a soldier. He is an extremely skilled fighter. He almost killed Kaladin in their first encounter, despite Kaladin having an abundance of stormlight. He only dies the first time because of his overconfidence, and he dies the second time because Kaladin gets inside his head. (And, y'know, Kaladin is Kaladin)

He gets obliterated twice by a man with almost zero powers, he can't fight 1 vs 1 he has to take his opponent by surprise, that's not skill that's luck.

Being a soldier is being able to fight well in groups, something anti-thetical to Lezian's style, being a fighter is being good 1vs1, but even then he lost twice.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

He gets obliterated twice by a man with almost zero powers, he can't fight 1 vs 1 he has to take his opponent by surprise, that's not skill that's luck.

Being a soldier is being able to fight well in groups, something anti-thetical to Lezian's style, being a fighter is being good 1vs1, but even then he lost twice.

Lezian lost once when he was actually fighting and not being overconfident. Against Kaladin, someone who is possibly supernaturally skilled. Any other radiant besides Szeth and Dalinar would have been killed by Lezian, Probably in their first encounter.

[bmcclure7]

On 1/30/2022 at 8:48 PM, Frustration said:

Please don't double post.(Posting twice before someone else does.)

I woudn't count them, but even if you do, Squires are still on Fused level.

We only see a handful of Radiants during the desolations, not like the recreance where we saw two full orders.

 It doesn't matter the question wasn't how many members of the Knights radians exceed the level of fused. The question Brandon answered was how large the order is were.

[bmcclure7]

On 1/31/2022 at 0:52 PM, Frustration said:

He gets obliterated twice by a man with almost zero powers, he can't fight 1 vs 1 he has to take his opponent by surprise, that's not skill that's luck.

Being a soldier is being able to fight well in groups, something anti-thetical to Lezian's style, being a fighter is being good 1vs1, but even then he lost twice.

 He  Is he fought Kaliden completely unarmed in   his 1st encounter  And nearly won. In addition the man has a 100% successful kill rate against other radiance.   It's lost to Kaliden as more psychological than skill. 

[Frustration]

38 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 He  Is he fought Kaliden completely unarmed in   his 1st encounter  And nearly won. In addition the man has a 100% successful kill rate against other radiance.   It's lost to Kaliden as more psychological than skill. 

Name one radiant he killed.

Sure he's done it, but either he killed them in their sleep or radiants got a lot more powerful over the years.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

Name one radiant he killed.

Sure he's done it, but either he killed them in their sleep or radiants got a lot more powerful over the years.

Kaladin is the most skilled radiant in modern day, and probably a contender for most skilled ever. Saying the pursuer losing to him makes him a weak fighter is like saying

miscellaneous cosmere.

Spoiler

Inquisitors are weak because Vin killed them. Or Denth is weak because Vasher killed him. Or that Zane is weak because Vin killed him even though he was burning atium.

Kaladin fought two shardbearers at once with only minimal stormlight and a shardplate helmet. Kaladin beat the assassin in white, who had years of training with all ten surges, only a few months after even discovering his powers. He killed a shardbearer in single combat with only small amounts of stormlight and zero experience in fighting them. I said it earlier, and I will say it again. Any other radiant besides Dalinar, Szeth, or Jasnah, would have been hard-pressed to survive their first encounter with Lezian. Of those, only Dalinar and Szeth could actually beat him in combat. Dalinar with his bondsmith powers, Szeth with Nightblood. Teft? dead. Lopen? dead. Lift? she might run away for a while, but in the end? dead. Shallan? dead. Name one radiant besides Dalinar, Kaladin, and Szeth who could beat him in combat. Jasnah lost to a run-of-the-mill regrowth fused, and was forced to take him by surprise with her powers. you think she could kill the Pursuer? He'd teleport away before she could ever soulcast him into flame or anything of the sort. Her only option would be to flee to the cognitive realm. Shallan? He can disrupt her illusions by flying through them.

[Frustration]

31 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Kaladin is the most skilled radiant in modern day, and probably a contender for most skilled ever. Saying the pursuer losing to him makes him a weak fighter is like saying

miscellaneous cosmere.

  Reveal hidden contents

Inquisitors are weak because Vin killed them. Or Denth is weak because Vasher killed him. Or that Zane is weak because Vin killed him even though he was burning atium.

Kaladin fought two shardbearers at once with only minimal stormlight and a shardplate helmet. Kaladin beat the assassin in white, who had years of training with all ten surges, only a few months after even discovering his powers. He killed a shardbearer in single combat with only small amounts of stormlight and zero experience in fighting them. I said it earlier, and I will say it again. Any other radiant besides Dalinar, Szeth, or Jasnah, would have been hard-pressed to survive their first encounter with Lezian. Of those, only Dalinar and Szeth could actually beat him in combat. Dalinar with his bondsmith powers, Szeth with Nightblood. Teft? dead. Lopen? dead. Lift? she might run away for a while, but in the end? dead. Shallan? dead. Name one radiant besides Dalinar, Kaladin, and Szeth who could beat him in combat. Jasnah lost to a run-of-the-mill regrowth fused, and was forced to take him by surprise with her powers. you think she could kill the Pursuer? He'd teleport away before she could ever soulcast him into flame or anything of the sort. Her only option would be to flee to the cognitive realm. Shallan? He can disrupt her illusions by flying through them.

Other than Kaladin and Jasnah none of them have plate. Well, Shallan should but she never uses it. However Radiants in the past did have it.

With plate how does Lezian do anything? His spines won't penetrate it, the eyeslits can close, so there aren't any weakpoints.

Any Radiant you mentioned, other than Shallan would shrug Lezian's best attack off with ease.

While right now yes he could kill most of them, plate makes that impossible.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Other than Kaladin and Jasnah none of them have plate. Well, Shallan should but she never uses it. However Radiants in the past did have it.

With plate how does Lezian do anything? His spines won't penetrate it, the eyeslits can close, so there aren't any weakpoints.

Any Radiant you mentioned, other than Shallan would shrug Lezian's best attack off with ease.

While right now yes he could kill most of them, plate makes that impossible.

I mean, Jasnah in plate got beaten pretty easily by a fused. She only won because she took him by surprise with her powers. Lezian could probably outlast most radiants in plate, slowly wearing them down. Even if he couldn't win in single combat, him and a group of soldiers could do it. He could get the radiant on the ground, then the ordinary soldiers come in with hammers to break the plate, and he takes the kill. Add to this he's almost impossible to actually kill, (unless you convince him that retreating will destroy his legacy) and his teleporting ability lets him potentially ambush a radiant at almost any time. So the radiant would have to be constantly alert. Lopen with shardplate might manage to survive a couple encounters with the pursuer, but how long would it take before he gets ambushed without enough stormlight? How long would he last on the battlefield with Lezian constantly ambushing him, zipping in from behind at just the wrong moments?

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

I mean, Jasnah in plate got beaten pretty easily by a fused. She only won because she took him by surprise with her powers. Lezian could probably outlast most radiants in plate, slowly wearing them down. Even if he couldn't win in single combat, him and a group of soldiers could do it. He could get the radiant on the ground, then the ordinary soldiers come in with hammers to break the plate, and he takes the kill. Add to this he's almost impossible to actually kill, (unless you convince him that retreating will destroy his legacy) and his teleporting ability lets him potentially ambush a radiant at almost any time. So the radiant would have to be constantly alert. Lopen with shardplate might manage to survive a couple encounters with the pursuer, but how long would it take before he gets ambushed without enough stormlight? How long would he last on the battlefield with Lezian constantly ambushing him, zipping in from behind at just the wrong moments?

So he doesn't have the skills needed to kill radiants, he just tries until he suceeds.

[Pathfinder]

22 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I mean, Jasnah in plate got beaten pretty easily by a fused. She only won because she took him by surprise with her powers. Lezian could probably outlast most radiants in plate, slowly wearing them down. Even if he couldn't win in single combat, him and a group of soldiers could do it. He could get the radiant on the ground, then the ordinary soldiers come in with hammers to break the plate, and he takes the kill. Add to this he's almost impossible to actually kill, (unless you convince him that retreating will destroy his legacy) and his teleporting ability lets him potentially ambush a radiant at almost any time. So the radiant would have to be constantly alert. Lopen with shardplate might manage to survive a couple encounters with the pursuer, but how long would it take before he gets ambushed without enough stormlight? How long would he last on the battlefield with Lezian constantly ambushing him, zipping in from behind at just the wrong moments?

Jasnah was deliberately handicapping herself in that scene to experience battle on the front line. She wasn't playing to her strength. Its specifically mentioned in the scene.

 

Rhythm of War page 753

This is less effective, Ivory said to her. Our other powers are. Use them?

No. I want to know the real feeling of war, Jasnah thought. Or as close to it as I can allow myself, in Plate with Blade.

(Further in the scene)

Such fun is, Ivory said. But of course, Jasnah mustn’t use her powers. She wants to play soldier.

 

There are also parts where she mentions how she is trying to appear as just a shardbearer, so was minimizing all her radiant powers to remain incognito. I can post those as well if that helps.

 

Edit: ah was rereading the scene and there are two parts i forgot.

1. A windrunner falls from the sky dead after fighting with a heavenly one.

2. Jasnah, worried about the sacrifice her troops make, wouldn't retreat and kept going. She went for so long she lost track and:

"She vaguely remembered fighting another Fused, and some Regals, and …"

So apparently she was able to hold her own against further fused, regals and etc

Edited February 3, 2022 by Pathfinder

[NameIess]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

So he doesn't have the skills needed to kill radiants, he just tries until he suceeds.

He has the skills, but fighting someone in full regenerating shardplate with a shapeshifting blade that cuts through anything (disregarding other powers) head on is pretty stupid when all you can do is teleport. You move around them, disorient them, make them constantly watch for you out of the corner of their eye, until finally you wear them down enough to kill them. His powerset is perfect for "pursuing" people, and that's where his skills lie. Not in fighting on a battlefield, but in hunting his prey, constantly harrying them, until he eventually wears them down or finds them in a moment of weakness.

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

Jasnah was deliberately handicapping herself in that scene to experience battle on the front line. She wasn't playing to her strength. Its specifically mentioned in the scene.

 

Rhythm of War page 753

This is less effective, Ivory said to her. Our other powers are. Use them?

No. I want to know the real feeling of war, Jasnah thought. Or as close to it as I can allow myself, in Plate with Blade.

(Further in the scene)

Such fun is, Ivory said. But of course, Jasnah mustn’t use her powers. She wants to play soldier.

 

There are also parts where she mentions how she is trying to appear as just a shardbearer, so was minimizing all her radiant powers to remain incognito. I can post those as well if that helps.

 

Edit: ah was rereading the scene and there are two parts i forgot.

1. A windrunner falls from the sky dead after fighting with a heavenly one.

2. Jasnah, worried about the sacrifice her troops make, wouldn't retreat and kept going. She went for so long she lost track and:

"She vaguely remembered fighting another Fused, and some Regals, and …"

So apparently she was able to hold her own against further fused, regals and etc

The wording implies one more fused, not multiple.

She was almost immediately beaten by the first fused she fought, and only survived because she took him by surprise with her powers. Sure, she would have been more effective using her powers to their fullest, but why didn't she? Because they would have swarmed her immediately. Additionally, she had access to tons of stormlight, without worry of using it all up or needing to save some for later. Seriously, Dalinar as a source of infinite stormlight cannot be overrated. Jasnah didn't need to worry about her plate breaking, because it would simply repair itself. Ancient radiants? How many battles do you have to fight in between storms? Run out of stormlight? Too bad. The fused didn't run out of voidlight. Now you have to fight them with only the heralds as surgebinders. And plate probably takes a huge amount of stormlight to repair. After the disaster at the Tower in tWoK, over 1,000 soldiers in Dalinar's army gave their spheres to repair Dalinar's armor, and it was still missing pieces. Now, radiant plate is obviously more efficient, and quicker, but I'm guessing that repairing it takes a massive amount of stormlight.