wax Wax’s skimmer problems

[HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose?]

So wax is always storing 1/4 of his weight right? 

I know Brandon has stated that he doesn’t want wax to be a savant because he hasn’t shown any drawbacks, but that seems exclusive to his allomancy.

What I’m thinking is that wax is actually losing bone and muscle density.

It isn’t yet manifesting because when wax taps his metal minds to get immensely heavier, his feruchemy has the side effect of strengthening him enough that he usually isn’t hurting himself.

Well, astronauts in negligible g have serious bone density issues, and this poses a few problems for settlers of low g planets/moons requiring that they take steroids.

In any case, when and if wax loses his metal minds, he should start suffering from weak bones and joints, and trouble moving, at least until he can find something made of iron.

 On a side note, skimmers should make excellent deep sea divers, and astronauts, since they can avoid pressure issues either way, changing the density of the air and blood in their bodies. I’d love to see this in era 4, with a skimmer able to hold their breath in vacuum by filling their metal minds at an absurd rate

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

So wax is always storing 1/4 of his weight right? 

I know Brandon has stated that he doesn’t want wax to be a savant because he hasn’t shown any drawbacks, but that seems exclusive to his allomancy.

What I’m thinking is that wax is actually losing bone and muscle density.

It isn’t yet manifesting because when wax taps his metal minds to get immensely heavier, his feruchemy has the side effect of strengthening him enough that he usually isn’t hurting himself.

Well, astronauts in negligible g have serious bone density issues, and this poses a few problems for settlers of low g planets/moons requiring that they take steroids.

In any case, when and if wax loses his metal minds, he should start suffering from weak bones and joints, and trouble moving, at least until he can find something made of iron.

 On a side note, skimmers should make excellent deep sea divers, and astronauts, since they can avoid pressure issues either way, changing the density of the air and blood in their bodies. I’d love to see this in era 4, with a skimmer able to hold their breath in vacuum by filling their metal minds at an absurd rate

They aren't changing their density, just their weight.

[NameIess]

12 minutes ago, Frustration said:

They aren't changing their density, just their weight.

No, they are changing their density. If they weren't, then Wax wouldn't slow down or speed up when he taps or fills his metalminds.

[Frustration]

Just now, Nameless said:

No, they are changing their density. If they weren't, then Wax wouldn't slow down or speed up when he taps or fills his metalminds.

Eh, Brandon himself goes back and forth on this, but he definatly does not want it to be mass in it's entirety, that would make Wax immune to bullets, and able to hit harder than a tank.

Spoiler

Questioner

I remember in, I believe it was Hero of the Ages, when Sazed was helping TenSoon escape. When he had fallen on the guard, he said that, by increasing his weight he also increases his density so he doesn't <hurt> himself. Then in The Alloy of Law, it also says that when Wax increases his weight he said that he didn't.

Brandon Sanderson

So, Sazed is just making a mistake. He's mistaking the fact when he increases his weight his musculature changes to be able to handle the new weight and that was what he was talking about. Strength and muscle tone and things like that. I might have just gotten it wrong in the original one [scene], I can't honestly remember, but this is what we kinda decided it needs to be. 

 

Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Six

The fight in the ballroom

From the early days of the Mistborn books, I'd been planning how an Allomantic gunfight would go down. I felt it the next evolution in what has been stylistically a big part of these books.

There is a fine line to walk in a lot of these sequences. I've made something of a name for myself in the fantasy world by attempting to mix some scientific reasoning with my magic systems. At the same time, Allomancy was designed precisely with action sequences in mind. I wanted them to be powerful and cinematic—and a cinematic fight sequence is often at odds with realism. (Watch two people who really know what they're doing fight with swords sometime, then watch any fight sequence in a film. Most of the time, the film sequences stray far from what would really happen.)

So, as I said, I walk a line. Sometimes, there are things I just can't do because they violate what I've set up as the rules of the world. Other times, I design the setting and nature of the fight specifically to allow for certain types of cinematic sequences. One thing I like a lot about Wax’s abilities is the power he has to manipulate his weight. There's some realism to what he does—for example, increasing his weight doesn't make him fall more quickly, but it allows him to do some powerful things while falling. Destroying the chandeliers is an example.

At the same time, I acknowledge that the weight manipulation aspect of Feruchemy is one of its more baffling powers, scientifically. Is he changing his mass? If so, he should become more dense, which I don't actually make the case when it plays out in fights. (Otherwise, increasing his weight enough would make him impervious to bullets.) So, if it's not mass manipulation, is it gravity manipulation, like Szeth and Kaladin do? Well, again, not really—as when his weight increases, his strength and ability to uphold that weight increase as well. Beyond that, Wax can't make himself so light that he has no weight at all.

So . . . well, at this point, the ability to explain it scientifically breaks down. I do like what it does, but I have to set its boundaries and stick to them—and accept that some of what's going on is irrational. (And don't get me started on what should really be happening scientifically when Wayne speeds up time.)

Footnote: Brandon has stated that iron Feruchemy works by manipulating the Higgs field.
The Alloy of Law Annotations (March 14, 2014)

 

Questioner

So, Metalminds: if you store weight, how does that work, do you decrease your mass or...?

Brandon Sanderson

So, storing weight actually plays with your mass, because if you look at how we do the physics of it… This one is really screwy, because we are changing mass and playing with it. You watch, like with Wax decreases his weight while he's in motion he'll speed up, and if he increases it, he'll slow down. The conservation of momentum and things like that, but we'll doing really weird stuff. It's like, how can you store your mass… Well, in the magic system it works, but it’s one of the weirdest things we do. *pauses to sign book* We kind of play loose and free with the physics sometimes. Like the example that I often use is Wayne doing a speed bubble, the light that is trapped in the speed bubble...like if he turns on a flashlight would actually radiate because of the redshift, and you could just kill everybody by flashing that. So, we make the speed bubbles not cause a redshift for that reason. We kind of work with what is good storytelling first, and then work the physics around it, but we have to put in all these little breaks and things like that in there regularity in order to actually have the story.

Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

Questioner

When Wax changes his weight, is that weight or mass?

Brandon Sanderson

He is actually changing his mass, in a weird...It's kind of halfway in between, is really what it is. But it follows the laws of conservation of momentum, so it's not just weight. It's timidly a half step inbetween.

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

Bat_Mannington

If a Windrunner lashed Wax upwards, could he dump all of his weight into his metalminds and be unaffected or would the lashing affect his clothes and whatever else he had on him too?

Brandon Sanderson

Wax could mitigate the effect (unless he was in a vacuum) but not eliminate it completely.

faragorn

Vacuum or freefall?

It can be easy to confuse them in the context of surface to orbit.

Brandon Sanderson

I was talking about a Vacuum, but it's good to clarify. What I'm saying is that without wind resistance, his mass doesn't matter--and the books have established that what Wax does is a freakish transformation of his mass, not just his weight.

Kaladin changes how much gravity pulls on someone, and in what direction. Wax (basically, it's more complex than this) changes how much mass he has. The two, then, have some very distinctive effects.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 5, 2015)

 

[NameIess]

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Eh, Brandon himself goes back and forth on this, but he definatly does not want it to be mass in it's entirety, that would make Wax immune to bullets, and able to hit harder than a tank.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

I remember in, I believe it was Hero of the Ages, when Sazed was helping TenSoon escape. When he had fallen on the guard, he said that, by increasing his weight he also increases his density so he doesn't <hurt> himself. Then in The Alloy of Law, it also says that when Wax increases his weight he said that he didn't.

Brandon Sanderson

So, Sazed is just making a mistake. He's mistaking the fact when he increases his weight his musculature changes to be able to handle the new weight and that was what he was talking about. Strength and muscle tone and things like that. I might have just gotten it wrong in the original one [scene], I can't honestly remember, but this is what we kinda decided it needs to be. 

 

Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Six

The fight in the ballroom

From the early days of the Mistborn books, I'd been planning how an Allomantic gunfight would go down. I felt it the next evolution in what has been stylistically a big part of these books.

There is a fine line to walk in a lot of these sequences. I've made something of a name for myself in the fantasy world by attempting to mix some scientific reasoning with my magic systems. At the same time, Allomancy was designed precisely with action sequences in mind. I wanted them to be powerful and cinematic—and a cinematic fight sequence is often at odds with realism. (Watch two people who really know what they're doing fight with swords sometime, then watch any fight sequence in a film. Most of the time, the film sequences stray far from what would really happen.)

So, as I said, I walk a line. Sometimes, there are things I just can't do because they violate what I've set up as the rules of the world. Other times, I design the setting and nature of the fight specifically to allow for certain types of cinematic sequences. One thing I like a lot about Wax’s abilities is the power he has to manipulate his weight. There's some realism to what he does—for example, increasing his weight doesn't make him fall more quickly, but it allows him to do some powerful things while falling. Destroying the chandeliers is an example.

At the same time, I acknowledge that the weight manipulation aspect of Feruchemy is one of its more baffling powers, scientifically. Is he changing his mass? If so, he should become more dense, which I don't actually make the case when it plays out in fights. (Otherwise, increasing his weight enough would make him impervious to bullets.) So, if it's not mass manipulation, is it gravity manipulation, like Szeth and Kaladin do? Well, again, not really—as when his weight increases, his strength and ability to uphold that weight increase as well. Beyond that, Wax can't make himself so light that he has no weight at all.

So . . . well, at this point, the ability to explain it scientifically breaks down. I do like what it does, but I have to set its boundaries and stick to them—and accept that some of what's going on is irrational. (And don't get me started on what should really be happening scientifically when Wayne speeds up time.)

Footnote: Brandon has stated that iron Feruchemy works by manipulating the Higgs field.
The Alloy of Law Annotations (March 14, 2014)

 

Questioner

So, Metalminds: if you store weight, how does that work, do you decrease your mass or...?

Brandon Sanderson

So, storing weight actually plays with your mass, because if you look at how we do the physics of it… This one is really screwy, because we are changing mass and playing with it. You watch, like with Wax decreases his weight while he's in motion he'll speed up, and if he increases it, he'll slow down. The conservation of momentum and things like that, but we'll doing really weird stuff. It's like, how can you store your mass… Well, in the magic system it works, but it’s one of the weirdest things we do. *pauses to sign book* We kind of play loose and free with the physics sometimes. Like the example that I often use is Wayne doing a speed bubble, the light that is trapped in the speed bubble...like if he turns on a flashlight would actually radiate because of the redshift, and you could just kill everybody by flashing that. So, we make the speed bubbles not cause a redshift for that reason. We kind of work with what is good storytelling first, and then work the physics around it, but we have to put in all these little breaks and things like that in there regularity in order to actually have the story.

Shadows of Self San Jose signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

Questioner

When Wax changes his weight, is that weight or mass?

Brandon Sanderson

He is actually changing his mass, in a weird...It's kind of halfway in between, is really what it is. But it follows the laws of conservation of momentum, so it's not just weight. It's timidly a half step inbetween.

Calamity Austin signing (Feb. 25, 2016)

Bat_Mannington

If a Windrunner lashed Wax upwards, could he dump all of his weight into his metalminds and be unaffected or would the lashing affect his clothes and whatever else he had on him too?

Brandon Sanderson

Wax could mitigate the effect (unless he was in a vacuum) but not eliminate it completely.

faragorn

Vacuum or freefall?

It can be easy to confuse them in the context of surface to orbit.

Brandon Sanderson

I was talking about a Vacuum, but it's good to clarify. What I'm saying is that without wind resistance, his mass doesn't matter--and the books have established that what Wax does is a freakish transformation of his mass, not just his weight.

Kaladin changes how much gravity pulls on someone, and in what direction. Wax (basically, it's more complex than this) changes how much mass he has. The two, then, have some very distinctive effects.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 5, 2015)

 

Yeah, but its not just weight either. And if it was, then this theory would not require savantism. Wax going around lighter than normal would effectively have the same effect as him living in a lower state of gravity: his muscles would atrophy. As it is, Wax's muscles (and presumably his bones, although that part gets fudged a little by Brandon in order to keep Wax from constantly getting broken bones or inversely becoming bulletproof) get weaker when he stores weight, which prevents them from degenerating.

43 minutes ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

So wax is always storing 1/4 of his weight right? .

I know Brandon has stated that he doesn’t want wax to be a savant because he hasn’t shown any drawbacks, but that seems exclusive to his allomancy.

What I’m thinking is that wax is actually losing bone and muscle density.

It isn’t yet manifesting because when wax taps his metal minds to get immensely heavier, his feruchemy has the side effect of strengthening him enough that he usually isn’t hurting himself.

Well, astronauts in negligible g have serious bone density issues, and this poses a few problems for settlers of low g planets/moons requiring that they take steroids.

In any case, when and if wax loses his metal minds, he should start suffering from weak bones and joints, and trouble moving, at least until he can find something made of iron.

 On a side note, skimmers should make excellent deep sea divers, and astronauts, since they can avoid pressure issues either way, changing the density of the air and blood in their bodies. I’d love to see this in era 4, with a skimmer able to hold their breath in vacuum by filling their metal minds at an absurd rate

Quick note about savantism, Brandon hasn't said that he doesn't want Wax specifically to be an feruchemical savant, but he has said that he has no plans to make feruchemical savants in the Cosmere:

Quote

Kurkistan

Is there such a thing as a Feruchemical savant?

Brandon Sanderson

I did not write Feruchemical savants into the original outline. Whether or not I will do them- it’s highly unlikely because it’s not there and Mistborn is getting trickier and trickier in that regard. But I didn’t write them in, so… that’s a “probably not”.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

and that normal feruchemists don't become savants:

Quote

Questioner

There are Allomantic savants, are there Feruchemical savants?

Brandon Sanderson

Much harder to do. My feeling on Feruchemical savants was because it was your own power in the first place, you can't steep in it so much in the way. But, if you can get someone else's power or if you are fueling your Feruchemy another way, you would become one. So, the Lord Ruler is a good example.

Questioner

Was Miles a...

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Miles would be the same sort of thing.

Questioner

Is that why he didn't die as quickly in the execution?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

So yeah. Normally no but if you can Compound you become... basically that is how I am explaining part of the Compounding abilities. 

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

So I find it unlikely that Wax is going to have trouble with bone density due to savantism. He will probably have other issues related to old age and getting shot a lot, but I doubt feruchemical savantism is going to be an issue.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Nameless

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Yeah, but its not just weight either. And if it was, then this theory would not require savantism. Wax going around lighter than normal would effectively have the same effect as him living in a lower state of gravity: his muscles would atrophy. As it is, Wax's muscles (and presumably his bones, although that part gets fudged a little by Brandon in order to keep Wax from constantly getting broken bones or inversely becoming bulletproof) get weaker when he stores weight, which prevents his muscles or bones from degenerating.

Not right now.

Personally I think messing with the Spiritual value assigning your weight should work, but Brandon doesn't seem to be taking that direction.

[NameIess]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Not right now.

Personally I think messing with the Spiritual value assigning your weight should work, but Brandon doesn't seem to be taking that direction.

Well, yeah. He'd have to retcon all of the scenes where Wax uses his feruchemy to slow down or speed up, and there would still be the problem of skimmers crushing themselves under their own weight. If you're not storing mass, then you would have to store something else alongside spiritual weight in order to survive having such a massive weight increase.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Well, yeah. He'd have to retcon all of the scenes where Wax uses his feruchemy to slow down or speed up, and there would still be the problem of skimmers crushing themselves under their own weight. If you're not storing mass, then you would have to store something else alongside spiritual weight in order to survive having such a massive weight increase.

magic does give you additional benefits so you don't die using it.

Like how steelrunners don't break their legs running.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

magic does give you additional benefits so you don't die using it.

Like how steelrunners don't break their legs running.

because they are storing a physical attribute that includes the strength to survive that trait. If you increase speed but not strength, then you just have mental speed. You can't move any faster. storing spiritual strength would be like giving yourself up to half a lashing upwards, or lashing yourself downwards up to hundreds of times. That effects spiritual weight. Why would storing that effect your ability to handle increased weight? You would die immediately unless you also stored something that helped you survive. Something like... density? 

[Frustration]

Just now, Nameless said:

because they are storing a physical attribute that includes the strength to survive that trait. If you increase speed but not strength, then you just have mental speed. You can't move any faster.

It's not the muscles that would break it's the bones.

And they do not store anything reguarding their bones in steel.

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

You would die immediately unless you also stored something that helped you survive. Something like... density? 

Again density does not work, as Wax has stated that no matter how much he taps bullets go through him just as easily.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

It's not the muscles that would break it's the bones.

And they do not store anything reguarding their bones in steel.

They are storing their body's ability to go fast, and also the ability to handle the increased speed. But what attribute are they storing to become strong enough to handle the speed?

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Again density does not work, as Wax has stated that no matter how much he taps bullets go through him just as easily.

I'm not saying that density is the only thing that changes, only that it is a mix between density and weight

Basically, look at it like this: how do you increase weight without increasing mass? The factors that determine your weight are gravity and mass. Storing spiritual weight would have to affect one of these factors. However, increasing gravity would make you fall faster, and increasing your mass would make you indestructible. Brandon wants neither of these side effects. So he has to improvise.

If anything, storing spiritual mass would be a better solution. That way, you fool the planet into thinking you are heavier than you physically are, while also not increasing your physical mass, meaning bullets go right through you.

[+Bzhydack]

55 minutes ago, Nameless said:

No, they are changing their density. If they weren't, then Wax wouldn't slow down or speed up when he taps or fills his metalminds.

Skimmers are storing weight. But this mean they are somehow in dual-state while storing (and tapping as well) - their physicochemical density are always the same, they have the same amount of matter in every cell, so it unaffects piercing bodies or Gamma rays, or whatever. But their relative density changes, because they have less (or more) mass in normal body volume.

Its like they are able to radiate some subatomic particles from their atoms without changing the size and durability, and later absorb them. Particles with mass but without size.

Iron Feruchemy just breaks normal physics.

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, Nameless said:

They are storing their body's ability to go fast, and also the ability to handle the increased speed. But what attribute are they storing to become strong enough to handle the speed?

Nothing, the system just gives it to them,

Spoiler

Questioner

I'm just curious about Steelrunners. I have to ask, assuming they have physical limitations?

Brandon Sanderson

They do. We can't go Speed Force on this sort of thing. Wind resistance is still a thing, and stuff like that.

Questioner

Bodily, their bodies--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. So, most magic in the cosmere will strengthen your body to let you use the magic to an extent, but-- Yeah, there's some pretty strong limitations.

Questioner

If you had a steel/steel Twinborn racing a pewter/steel, would you say that the pure steel, or the pewter burning to enhance their body-- in a short race?

Brandon Sanderson

Who would win? Probably pewter then, at that point. I would have to have Peter-- I wouldn't do it myself, make Peter run the math, and see what he comes up with. Those are the sort of things I go to him with.

Oathbringer Houston signing (Nov. 18, 2017)

 

Quote

If anything, storing spiritual mass would be a better solution. That way, you fool the planet into thinking you are heavier than you physically are, while also not increasing your physical mass, meaning bullets go right through you.

That works to

Edited January 9, 2022 by Frustration

[NameIess]

16 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Skimmers are storing weight. But this mean they are somehow in dual-state while storing (and tapping as well) - their physicochemical density are always the same, they have the same amount of matter in every cell, so it unaffects piercing bodies or Gamma rays, or whatever. But their relative density changes, because they have less (or more) mass in normal body volume.

Its like they are able to radiate some subatomic particles from their atoms without changing the size and durability, and later absorb them. Particles with mass but without size.

Iron Feruchemy just breaks normal physics.

I'm not surprised that it breaks normal physics considering that it's magic.

I think I understand this enough to agree with it. I am not contending that Wax should be bulletproof, I'm just saying that in order to store weight you must store either mass or gravity force. And I think that mass is being stored, because Wax always falls at the same speed, not accounting for air resistance.  I think that spiritual mass is the best way to go. He makes his body and gravity think that it is more massive than it physically is.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Nameless

[AquaRegia]

33 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

Skimmers are storing weight. But this mean they are somehow in dual-state while storing (and tapping as well) - their physicochemical density are always the same, they have the same amount of matter in every cell, so it unaffects piercing bodies or Gamma rays, or whatever. But their relative density changes, because they have less (or more) mass in normal body volume.

Its like they are able to radiate some subatomic particles from their atoms without changing the size and durability, and later absorb them. Particles with mass but without size.

Iron Feruchemy just breaks normal physics.

Hard agree with @Nameless: It's MAGIC.

Investiture allows users to do impossible things, in the same way it gives them resistance to disease and tooth decay.  I try not to overthink it.

[+Bzhydack]

@Nameless Probably this is the best way to look at this, and basicly similar to mine pint oof view.

@AquaRegia But this is fun with HardMagicSystems, we could try to understand this with our world laws. Mainly pointless, but still fun

[Trusk'our]

6 hours ago, HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? said:

So wax is always storing 1/4 of his weight right? 

I know Brandon has stated that he doesn’t want wax to be a savant because he hasn’t shown any drawbacks, but that seems exclusive to his allomancy.

I don't think that storing a Feruchemical attribute would be able to make you into a savant, as you are not investing yourself, you are diverting the flow of investiture from yourself into your metalminds, so you have less investiture while storing than when not. Pretty sure that's how it works, anyway.

[therunner]

10 hours ago, Nameless said:

I'm not surprised that it breaks normal physics considering that it's magic.

I think I understand this enough to agree with it. I am not contending that Wax should be bulletproof, I'm just saying that in order to store weight you must store either mass or gravity force. And I think that mass is being stored, because Wax always falls at the same speed, not accounting for air resistance.  I think that spiritual mass is the best way to go. He makes his body and gravity think that it is more massive than it physically is.

If I might chime in, a possible 'physical' explanation could be that what Iron Feruchemy stores is specifically gravitational mass, not an inertial one, and these two are in some way distinct in Cosmere.
Gravitational mass (m_g) is what 'causes' gravity (sort of like electric charge), and so storing and tapping this would give the desired effect of lowered/increased weight.
Inertial mass (m_i) is a property that describes how much an object 'resists' acceleration.

In our world m_g = m_i (at least we think so, currently they seem to match to 10^(-15) precision), but if this does not hold in Cosmere, then by storing only gravitational mass you would be decreasing your weight, while not changing your speed (as that should be covered by inertial mass, I think) or increasing/decreasing your density with respect to external forces like bullets, etc. (as those interact with inertial mass of atoms, not with gravitational mass).

So this would mostly explain what is going on, although there would still be a need for some magical shenanigans to explain why do I-Feruchemist not crush themselves.

Edited January 10, 2022 by therunner
typo

[+Oltux72]

35 minutes ago, therunner said:

If I might chime in, a possible 'physical' explanation could be that what Iron Feruchemy stores is specifically gravitational mass, not an inertial one, and these two are in some way distinct in Cosmere.
Gravitational mass (m_g) is what 'causes' gravity (sort of like electric charge), and so storing and tapping this would give the desired effect of lowered/increased weight.
Inertial mass (m_i) is a property that describes how much an object 'resists' acceleration.

I am afraid that you can get faster by storing while pushing yourself away from something even if you push sideways rules out that explanation. And that you break through the floor tapping enough rules out the other explanation.

35 minutes ago, therunner said:

In our world m_g = m_i (at least we think so, currently they seem to match to 10^(-15) precision), but if this does not hold in Cosmere, then by storing only gravitational mass you would be decreasing your weight, while not changing your speed (as that should be covered by inertial mass, I think) or increasing/decreasing your density with respect to external forces like bullets, etc. (as those interact with inertial mass of atoms, not with gravitational mass).

So this would mostly explain what is going on, although there would still be a need for some magical shenanigans to explain why do I-Feruchemist not crush themselves.

I think, we need to resort to Feruchemy working with alternate realities to an extent. You are heavier to the rest of the world, but not to yourself. What yourself is is determined by CR representation. That such concepts exist is more or less shown by allomantic gold.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

I am afraid that you can get faster by storing while pushing yourself away from something even if you push sideways rules out that explanation. And that you break through the floor tapping enough rules out the other explanation.

I think, we need to resort to Feruchemy working with alternate realities to an extent. You are heavier to the rest of the world, but not to yourself. What yourself is is determined by CR representation. That such concepts exist is more or less shown by allomantic gold.

I like the CR representation theory.  I always figured if your body changed to make up for your huge weight it would stand that your strength would have increased as well.  If I can do 50 push-ups at 200lbs and my bench is 280 then I should be able to do 50 push-ups at 2000 lbs and my bench ought to increase along with that.... 

But while the magic allows you to interact with the world as if you were the same weight as you always have been it is only a bubble of CR reality but your body is working differently in the world around it.  (Storing mid jump speeds you up and tapping slows you down but cognitively your self knows that bullets are still inherently bad for your health when they pass through you.)

[+Oltux72]

8 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

But while the magic allows you to interact with the world as if you were the same weight as you always have been it is only a bubble of CR reality but your body is working differently in the world around it.  (Storing mid jump speeds you up and tapping slows you down but cognitively your self knows that bullets are still inherently bad for your health when they pass through you.)

We must assume that things incorporated in you body counts as your body. Otherwise it is hard to see how a feruchemist would breathe. The gas inside your lungs would have to be extremely compressed to inflate your lungs.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

We must assume that things incorporated in you body counts as your body. Otherwise it is hard to see how a feruchemist would breathe. The gas inside your lungs would have to be extremely compressed to inflate your lungs.

Is it what is in your body though?  Or is it only how the world itself interacts with your body?  

How does that compare to connection?  There is no measurable connection in the physical.   Weight could be a form of connection and how the world is interacting with yourself changing without physically changing yourself.  

Don't get me wrong.  I love the idea of tapping iron and turning into John Carter of Mars but unfortunately that isn't what we see in the books plus it would make F pewter totally pointless.