Infinate Energy, Perpetual Motion, and why Raysium is more important than you think.

[NameIess]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

If a machine takes in hydrogen, fuses the hydrogen into larger elements, and then fissions those larger elements back into Hydrogen, and then that hydrogen was immediately sent back to be fused, and that gave it enough power to not only continue running but also power an entire country, that would be a PMM.

What I think you are overlooking is that the spirits never left the system, they were all trapped by the machine, that's why they needed Yumi to get them out, they couldn't leave.

Where's the evidence that the Father Machine simply didn't "use up" the energy of the spirits?

[Frustration]

13 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Where's the evidence that the Father Machine simply didn't "use up" the energy of the spirits?

They aren't gone. As seen by spren's reaction to anti-investiture, when you start consuming them they disappear fast.

The Father Machine was powering and controlling the shroud over an entire planet, and all the Hion lines for almost two thousand years, and yet all of the spirits are still there, and can immediately go back to doing exactly what they were doing before.

[NameIess]

12 minutes ago, Frustration said:

They aren't gone. As seen by spren's reaction to anti-investiture, when you start consuming them they disappear fast.

The Father Machine was powering and controlling the shroud over an entire planet, and all the Hion lines for almost two thousand years, and yet all of the spirits are still there, and can immediately go back to doing exactly what they were doing before.

The Dor has been powering multiple magic systems for even longer, and it hasn't run out. The spirits are leftovers from Virtuosity's splintering, not to mention that gathering them all together probably opened a perpendicularity that allowed access to the greater mass of Virtuosity's investiture in the SR. Look at it this way: Stars can burn for billions of years, outputting staggering levels of energy all the while, and yet we don't call them perpetual motion machines. 2,000 years is too short a time to conclusively extrapolate to infinity.

[Frustration]

Just now, Nameless* said:

The Dor has been powering multiple magic systems for even longer, and it hasn't run out. The spirits are leftovers from Virtuosity's splintering, not to mention that gathering them all together probably opened a perpendicularity that allowed access to the greater mass of Virtuosity's investiture in the SR. Look at it this way: Stars can burn for billions of years, outputting staggering levels of energy all the while, and yet we don't call them perpetual motion machines. 2,000 years is too short a time to conclusively extrapolate to infinity.

We saw the machine, there was no perpendicularity.

 

And even if somehow it was drawing power from the spiritual realm, that's where all expended investiture goes to, so any investiture it used would simply return there to be drawn from again.

[NameIess]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

We saw the machine, there was no perpendicularity.

 

And even if somehow it was drawing power from the spiritual realm, that's where all expended investiture goes to, so any investiture it used would simply return there to be drawn from again.

The Investiture that was converted into energy will not return there, it will follow the normal laws of entropy. So even if the cycle is very efficient, it would eventually run out. It might take billions of years or longer, but we don't have evidence to believe it would do otherwise.

[Frustration]

22 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

The Investiture that was converted into energy will not return there, it will follow the normal laws of entropy. So even if the cycle is very efficient, it would eventually run out. It might take billions of years or longer, but we don't have evidence to believe it would do otherwise.

We know that the Atium that was used by Elend would eventually reform. We know that the breaths of people who die go back to Endowment, we know that Stormlight fades back to the SR. Yet at no point have we ever heard anything about loss in any of these processes.

[therunner]

Per Brandon Investiture does follow Laws of Thermodynamics (albeit with some modifications).
The second law of thermodynamics stands as is (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3544) and the first one only adds Investiture alongside energy and mass.

First law is at most you get out what you put in (conservation of energy, mass, Investiture).
Second law is, you can never get out exactly what you put in (entropy increases).

This alone implies that perpetum mobile of the first (create useful work) and second (maintain movement forever) kind are impossible in Cosmere, since those two imply violation of either the first or the second laws of Thermodynamics.

Machines of third kind are most likely also impossible (those would require to fully eliminate all dissipative forces, and even Feruchemy does not allow to store 100% of any attribute).

17 minutes ago, Frustration said:

We know that the Atium that was used by Elend would eventually reform. We know that the breaths of people who die go back to Endowment, we know that Stormlight fades back to the SR. Yet at no point have we ever heard anything about loss in any of these processes.

Since the second law holds per Brandon, there must be at the very least increase in entropy, which corresponds to loss of free energy. Perhaps Shards can get around this limitation, however that would imply that second law does not actually hold in Cosmere.

Father Machine most likely was using up spirits in some form, or used the spirits to channel Investiture from SR. Since spirits create fabrials, and fabrials do require energy source (e.g. Stormlight), spirits must also be drawing upon some reserve of Investiture, either native to themselves or from SR. Which as @Firesong pointed out, would make FM not closed system, and hence not perpetum mobile.

Edited August 2, 2023 by therunner

[NameIess]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

We know that the Atium that was used by Elend would eventually reform. We know that the breaths of people who die go back to Endowment, we know that Stormlight fades back to the SR. Yet at no point have we ever heard anything about loss in any of these processes.

Just because Brandon didn't mention Investiture entropy in-book doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's an argument from silence.

[Lord Magire]

I was reading through this string, and I would just say, I think the point is that because investiture flows from the spiritual realm that makes it a power source in terms of perpetual motion machines. If investiture is infinitely and perfectly efficiently renewing, then for example surgebinding is inherently an infinite source of energy, and therefore can be used to create PMM with ease. I suspect this isn't true, because of the laws of thermodynamics. I think it is very possible that something is consumed in the transition from energy back to investiture. For example, in allomancy, metal is consumed. If the mass energy of the metal is greater than the energy outputted from the allomantic effect (eg. Steelpushing), then as long as that metal does not also reappear, energy is conserved. It is very possible something similar occurs in surgebinding etc, which would make sense with all this. Possibly highstorms take in energy in some way? 

[Frustration]

54 minutes ago, therunner said:

Per Brandon Investiture does follow Laws of Thermodynamics (albeit with some modifications).
The second law of thermodynamics stands as is (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3544) and the first one only adds Investiture alongside energy and mass.

First law is at most you get out what you put in (conservation of energy, mass, Investiture).
Second law is, you can never get out exactly what you put in (entropy increases).

This alone implies that perpetum mobile of the first (create useful work) and second (maintain movement forever) kind are impossible in Cosmere, since those two imply violation of either the first or the second laws of Thermodynamics.

Machines of third kind are most likely also impossible (those would require to fully eliminate all dissipative forces, and even Feruchemy does not allow to store 100% of any attribute).

Since the second law holds per Brandon, there must be at the very least increase in entropy, which corresponds to loss of free energy. Perhaps Shards can get around this limitation, however that would imply that second law does not actually hold in Cosmere.

Father Machine most likely was using up spirits in some form, or used the spirits to channel Investiture from SR. Since spirits create fabrials, and fabrials do require energy source (e.g. Stormlight), spirits must also be drawing upon some reserve of Investiture, either native to themselves or from SR. Which as @Firesong pointed out, would make FM not closed system, and hence not perpetum mobile.

Alright, so if I have a Bondsmith and Elsecaller make two portals, and one is at a higher elevation than the other and I push something through them, where is the new potential energy coming from?

Or better yet what happens if one faces down towards another that faces up? Any object dropped inside would need to be given enormous sums of energy in order for it to continue, but if I placed them horizontally facing each other and threw something into one being given the exact same amount of potential energy would cause just as many problems.

 

On order to resolve the issue without creating free energy, some intelligent force would have to be manually correcting the system.

 

Therefore, conservative of energy cannot reasonably exist within the Cosmere, unless you have some way to explain what is deciding when to give an object passing through portals additional energy and how.

59 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Just because Brandon didn't mention Investiture entropy in-book doesn't mean it doesn't exist. That's an argument from silence.

But he did mention that the Atium was renewed.

10 minutes ago, Lord Magire said:

If the mass energy of the metal is greater than the energy outputted from the allomantic effect (eg. Steelpushing), then as long as that metal does not also reappear, energy is conserved.

The metals do reappear according to some WoB's.

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Burned metals are turned into a different form, and will eventually return to the planet. The Pits of Hathsin are meant to foreshadow this.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/297/#e14840

 

Now there are newer ones that suggest otherwise, but at one point they did, and might continue to do so.

[Firesong]

11 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That is not them leaking investiture, but rather a passive effect that they have. They never lose breath by that as can be proven by the fifth heightening.

At the Fifth heightening people become biologically immortal, and at that point holding more breath does not extend your lifetime. If they lost breath overtime holding more past that point would extend their lifetime which is not the case.

 I have never once said that, a breath is a discrete unit of investiture.

  Reveal hidden contents

Emerald101

I was wondering if there is a unit of Investiture, like maybe something Khriss uses.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but I haven't canonized it yet. Good question. I will eventually canonize it, because I think that people will want it, but I probably won't do so 'til [Mistborn] Era 3, because I want the scientific way of talking about the cosmere to mirror how developed the cultures are, but some of the scholars are beyond where everyone else is. It can be measured. There is a unit.

Emerald101

Like, maybe grams of solid Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

It will probably be an in-world unit of measurement. Right now, to talk about it online if you want, the unit is probably gonna be based around Breath, because a Breath is a distinct amount. Whereas in most of the settings, there's not a distinct amount. Like, how much Allomancy, things like that. How much can a gem hold. It really depends on how the gem is cut, and how long the gem has been out. So... the Breath is a really easy one, so it's become the unit. But there will probably be a fantasy term for it. I might just call it Breath. That's why I'm not canonized yet. But if you guys wanna talk about it in Breath terms, that's probably the easiest.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31/#e9685

 

Breath is different than stormlight, it is attached to the soul.

It does not line up with how we see Awakening work. Vashers ropes don't require charging, his shirt doesn't require charging, lifeless don't require charging, why is this one the only difference?

Wood needs sunlight to grow, the commands probably used this as a base to create the board using far fewer breaths than were otherwise needed, just like Lifeless with ichor alcohol.

It is

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Three

Vivenna and the Mercenaries Wait in the Safe House after the Lifeless Attack on the Slumlords

Why does Jewels bother sewing up Clod? Why fix Lifeless at all? Denth's answer is a fairly good one, but it could use some more explanation.

You see, when one makes a Lifeless, the reason the Breath stays and won't come back is because the body of a recently deceased person is too "sticky" for Breaths. One Breath attaches to it, and because the body so clearly remembers being alive, it can use that Breath to power it. (Assuming you have the right Commands and can picture them correctly in your head when you make the Lifeless.)

However, the more the Lifeless is damaged, the less like the shape of a living person it is, and the more difficult it is for the Breath to keep that body going. Powering a body with only one Breath is hard—it requires the body to work mostly on its own. When you power a cloak or something like that, the Breaths need to provide a lot of energy, since there's no real muscles to use or skeletal structure to rely on.

So the more wounded a Lifeless becomes, the less well its Breath can keep it going. Eventually you'll need to stick a second Breath into it, then a third, all the way up until that Lifeless is nothing more than a bunch of bones you've Awakened. At that point, you might as well be using sticks or cloth.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/250/#e6975

 

The breath never runs out of power, more is simply needed to move the lifeless as it's body breaks down, be that from injury or natural process. Not once do you have an example of a lifeless ceasing to work because the breath simply ran out of energy.

If a machine takes in hydrogen, fuses the hydrogen into larger elements, and then fissions those larger elements back into Hydrogen, and then that hydrogen was immediately sent back to be fused, and that gave it enough power to not only continue running but also power an entire country, that would be a PMM.

What I think you are overlooking is that the spirits never left the system, they were all trapped by the machine, that's why they needed Yumi to get them out, they couldn't leave.

As I said, I don't really want to discuss this anymore, especially if you are going to blatantly ignore the text provided, like Brandon saying the leaking of Stormlight and Breath Auras are the same, and the annotation that the Breaths of children are stronger while the elderly have weaker ones. 

Tip for you on debates, try to actually address the citations made by the person you are debating with, show why those citations do not support their thesis. You ignored the primary things that I used as support for my own thesis, that being the annotations and WoBs. Which I feel are some of the strongest points in my favour. 

But again, you seem really set in your own interpretation and are absolutely refusing to even humor the idea of being wrong, which is something I did when looking at your argument. I assumed it was true, and tried to look for evidence supporting that validity, and also looked at what that implied for the system at large. For example, looking at how it leaks out (confirmed by the Auras and by WoB, which states leaking Stormlight and releasing an aura are the same thing just with different forms of Investiture) then we would have to assume for it to never reduce in quantity, while also releasing part of itself constantly, it would inherently have to contain an infinite amount of investiture as A - B = A with a non-zero B only holds true when A = ∞. Furthermore, we see that the breaths of adults are weaker than that of children (which fits with my own thesis that they let out part of their Investiture over time), but due to the fact that there is no set whose cardinality is between the set of the integers and real numbers, meaning, that children have ℵ(1) as it is strictly more than adults (who would have to have ℵ(0)), this also applies to the gap between ℵ(1) and ℵ(2), the Breath of Returned is substantially stronger than that of Children, so it would have to be ℵ(2).

Therefore, if you hypothesis is correct, Returned have ℵ(2) Investiture, more than uncountably infinite. But that it is also equal to 5000 standard, full-power breaths. Therefore it goes that 5000 * ℵ(1) = ℵ(2). This violates the fact that there for any infinite cardinal λ, there is not cardinal κ such that λ < κ < 2^λ. This would require that 5000 * λ = 2^λ. This does not hold true for infinite cardinals, it only holds true for ~16.3159 and ~0.0002. It also implies that finite arithmetic can bypass infinite gaps. Furthermore, Susebron is more Invested than a Returned, so he would have ℵ(3) and say that 50000* ℵ(2) = ℵ(3). Nightblood is more Invested than Susebron thus would be ℵ(4), and Shards are more Invested than Nightblood at at least ℵ(5). This would also mean that Ruin has ℵ(5), and was still weakened by having his body split into Atium, which means that ℵ(5) - am < ℵ(0), where m is a finite number describing the mass of atium that exists. For this formulation to hold true, a, the amount of energy within atium, would have to be infinite as well (in the magnitude of ℵ(5)) so this means that each piece of atium has infinite energy, and is essentially the entire shard. 

It is a massive chain of dominos. 

You also seem to misunderstand what Brandon means by atium reforming in the pits, it is connected to a large sum of Investiture which leaks out and forms into the Atium. It is not every last sliver of the energy of Atium going directly back into the system with 0 loss whatsoever. That is your own headcanon. 

And as stated by others, you are extrapolating way too much on this, just because the Father Machine goes on for a long time, does not mean it will go on for an infinite amount of time. As stated, Stars for instance can burn for billions of years, but still stop eventually, thus are not PMM.

And on portals by Surgebinders, that is literally a power you made up. They can make miniature Perpendicularities into the Cognitive Realm, but that is about it. I feel it isn't the best argument if you have to make up abilities in order to justify it.  

[Lord Magire]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Alright, so if I have a Bondsmith and Elsecaller make two portals, and one is at a higher elevation than the other and I push something through them, where is the new potential energy coming from?

If investiture isn't infinite/perfectly efficient when renewing, the energy comes from the (presumably stormlight) used to open the portals. If it is perfectly efficiently renewing, then that is indeed a PMM, as are all invested arts that can physically affect their environment (eg. not Rioting/Soothing etc.). It basically all depends on if investiture refills perfectly.

[NameIess]

19 minutes ago, Frustration said:

But he did mention that the Atium was renewed.

Did he specifically say that entropy did not increase in Atium's renewal? Because an equally probable explanation if he did not is that the inefficiency is merely not great enough to be immediately noticeable. 

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Alright, so if I have a Bondsmith and Elsecaller make two portals, and one is at a higher elevation than the other and I push something through them, where is the new potential energy coming from?

Source that they can make portals like that?

[Frustration]

17 minutes ago, Lord Magire said:

If investiture isn't infinite/perfectly efficient when renewing, the energy comes from the (presumably stormlight) used to open the portals.

Then the power needed would be different based on elevation, which doesn't make sense based on the fact that it is bending space.

4 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Source that they can make portals like that?

Spoiler

Questioner

At the end of Rhythm of War, we see Shard-induced time dilation; you bring a lot of Investiture into a place, and it slows down time.

Brandon Sanderson

It can also speed it up.

Questioner

How much Investiture would it take to dilate an area so that one area moves forward about fifteen years into the future while everything else remains? Like, they have ten minutes, everyone else goes fifteen years?

Brandon Sanderson

There’s a couple variables here. Number one is the length of the area, and how fast that fifteen years passes. If we want us to jump forward fifteen years, in how much time? Fifteen years compared to one year? Fifteen years compared to one minute? Fifteen years compared to one second? These are all different things. And, of course, the more you’re compressing and the larger the area, the more Investiture you’re requiring.

Questioner

Could two unchained Bondsmiths in the course of a duel do it?

Brandon Sanderson

Fifteen years? Fifteen years is gonna be a stretch for what they can get a hold of, but it depends. Unchained Bondsmith, unchained to (for instance) a deity that there is no longer a Vessel controlling that power in the way that it needs to have the limits on it is going to be able to access more than one where there was some Vessel there saying “no.” So there’s one factor in it. A Bondsmith can access a lot of power, as evidenced by the migration. The migration from Ashyn to Roshar happened with a Bondsmith powering some Elsecalling. And that allowed for some pretty crazy things. Getting an entire population moved through a portal across that much space is a lot of work and a lot of energy.

So what you’re asking, I think that’s stretching. Depends, again, on how long. Fifteen to one, not so hard. Fifteen years in a second is really hard and probably beyond what they have capacity to do.

I see what you’re doing there. You saw me talk around it.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15849

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have artwork of the portal in the books, and it looks like the ones from WoT where you can see Ashyn behind them.

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

At the end of Rhythm of War, we see Shard-induced time dilation; you bring a lot of Investiture into a place, and it slows down time.

Brandon Sanderson

It can also speed it up.

Questioner

How much Investiture would it take to dilate an area so that one area moves forward about fifteen years into the future while everything else remains? Like, they have ten minutes, everyone else goes fifteen years?

Brandon Sanderson

There’s a couple variables here. Number one is the length of the area, and how fast that fifteen years passes. If we want us to jump forward fifteen years, in how much time? Fifteen years compared to one year? Fifteen years compared to one minute? Fifteen years compared to one second? These are all different things. And, of course, the more you’re compressing and the larger the area, the more Investiture you’re requiring.

Questioner

Could two unchained Bondsmiths in the course of a duel do it?

Brandon Sanderson

Fifteen years? Fifteen years is gonna be a stretch for what they can get a hold of, but it depends. Unchained Bondsmith, unchained to (for instance) a deity that there is no longer a Vessel controlling that power in the way that it needs to have the limits on it is going to be able to access more than one where there was some Vessel there saying “no.” So there’s one factor in it. A Bondsmith can access a lot of power, as evidenced by the migration. The migration from Ashyn to Roshar happened with a Bondsmith powering some Elsecalling. And that allowed for some pretty crazy things. Getting an entire population moved through a portal across that much space is a lot of work and a lot of energy.

So what you’re asking, I think that’s stretching. Depends, again, on how long. Fifteen to one, not so hard. Fifteen years in a second is really hard and probably beyond what they have capacity to do.

I see what you’re doing there. You saw me talk around it.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15849

 

 

 

 

 

 

We have artwork of the portal in the books, and it looks like the ones from WoT where you can see Ashyn behind them.

Did you miss the part of the WoB that said "A Bondsmith can access a lot of power"? That portal required a ton of Investiture, which compensated for stuff like potential energy differences.

[Firesong]

7 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Did you miss the part of the WoB that said "A Bondsmith can access a lot of power"? That portal required a ton of Investiture, which compensated for stuff like potential energy differences.

I am also not sure what image they are talking about. I remember no such image. Or enough elaboration on how exactly in works in a way that allows us to make detailed theories. But iirc, he said the portal to Roshar was Spiritual in nature, and it was also a very exceptional thing, helped by a Bondsmith and a Dawnshard (we can assume at least, given they used Dawnshard Surges in their destruction of Ashyn, and they managed to get it to Roshar, so I assume they used it in the portal). 

Yup, looked through it, the artwork does not exist. 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Firesong

[NameIess]

Just now, Firesong said:

I am also not sure what image they are talking about. I remember no such image. Or enough elaboration on how exactly in works in a way that allows us to make detailed theories. But iirc, he said the portal to Roshar was Spiritual in nature, and it was also a very exceptional thing, helped by a Bondsmith and a Dawnshard (we can assume at least, given they used Dawnshard Surges in their destruction of Ashyn, and they managed to get it to Roshar, so I assume they used it in the portal). 

No, there was an image in one of the books of humans walking through a portal. I think it was in either OB or RoW. Not sure if it's just artistic license, but the picture does exist.

[Firesong]

Just now, Nameless* said:

No, there was an image in one of the books of humans walking through a portal. I think it was in either OB or RoW. Not sure if it's just artistic license, but the picture does exist.

I looked through the art pages again, and found it, it is 100% artistic license. The art was clearly made, long, long after the Expulsion to the extent we can't take it as 100% accurate to what had occurred, as it is dated to after humanity spread across Roshar and created Urithiru, and after the Iriali migration. 

[Frustration]

47 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Did you miss the part of the WoB that said "A Bondsmith can access a lot of power"? That portal required a ton of Investiture, which compensated for stuff like potential energy differences.

It doesn't matter, the power used is not what is creating the additional potential energy, only maintaining the portal, which violates the conversation of energy.

37 minutes ago, Firesong said:

I looked through the art pages again, and found it, it is 100% artistic license. The art was clearly made, long, long after the Expulsion to the extent we can't take it as 100% accurate to what had occurred, as it is dated to after humanity spread across Roshar and created Urithiru, and after the Iriali migration. 

Considering it's how the WoT portals work, and how much fun Brandon had writing them, I think it stands to reason Cosmere portals would work the same way.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Frustration

[NameIess]

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It doesn't matter, the power used is not what is creating the additional potential energy, only maintaining the portal, which violates the conversation of energy.

Source?

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Considering it's how the WoT portals work, and how much fun Brandon had writing them, I think it stands to reason Cosmere portals would work the same way.

Not a legitimate source. That's total speculation. I'd say its a much safer bet to say it worked more like the Oathgates.

Edited August 2, 2023 by Nameless*

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Source?

How would more energy be used to give it potential energy?

Why would it require more energy to open a portal at a higher elevation, despite them not being bound by gravity or linear space?

It creates more problems having the portal provide the potential energy.

5 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Not a legitimate source. That's total speculation. I'd say its a much safer bet to say it worked more like the Oathgates.

That would just be mass teleportation, not a portal.

[Firesong]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

How would more energy be used to give it potential energy?

Why would it require more energy to open a portal at a higher elevation, despite them not being bound by gravity or linear space?

It creates more problems having the portal provide the potential energy.

That would just be mass teleportation, not a portal.

Again, this is literally all headcanon you are pushing as fact. You have provided no evidence for any of these claims. 

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

How would more energy be used to give it potential energy?

Why would it require more energy to open a portal at a higher elevation, despite them not being bound by gravity or linear space?

It creates more problems having the portal provide the potential energy.

By taking investiture and using that to travel.

It wouldn't, but it would require more energy when something travelled through it.

2 minutes ago, Frustration said:

That would just be mass teleportation, not a portal.

Opening a portal for a very brief time to pull people into the Spiritual realm, then opening another one to pull them into the Physical realm at Roshar is still a portal.

[Firesong]

Anyway, as I said before, I am getting tired of this argument, we aren't ever going to come to an agreement and this is moving more towards the realm of headcanon and fanfic than sourced evidence. Maybe a mod should move this to the entertainment section?

Anyway, Imma be going now. Have fun. 

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Again, this is literally all headcanon you are pushing as fact. You have provided no evidence for any of these claims. 

These are questions not a headcanon.

4 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

By taking investiture and using that to travel.

How does it know how much potential energy to give? It isn't traveling through linear space so how is it calculated?

4 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

It wouldn't, but it would require more energy when something travelled through it.

And why is that? It isn't distorting space any more, so why would it require more energy?

5 minutes ago, Nameless* said:

Opening a portal for a very brief time to pull people into the Spiritual realm, then opening another one to pull them into the Physical realm at Roshar is still a portal.

So if we stop in the SR on the way why does it require more energy to place an object in certain places than others when the spiritual realm is all places in one?