Constructs of antiquity

[Lesser spren]

In "The Bands of Mourning" the broad sheet of the book featured a story called "Constructs of antiquity". I, like most people I assume, believed the to be pure entertainment, a fiction within a fiction. 

That was until I saw this:

 

Why the heck is Hoid in there?! Does that mean the events in here are canon?!

[Honorless]

Presumably, all of Jak & Nicki's stories are true but embellished a lot. Pits of Eltania did have factual information in it. Sinister Soirée less so. Ghastly Gondola also featured Nazh, so I'm inclined to think there's some truth to that, Nicki Savage also seems more reliable than Jak in general.

[+Oltux72]

3 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

Why the heck is Hoid in there?

In classical Hoid fashion I am afraid we must assume that he does not know himself.

3 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

! Does that mean the events in here are canon?!

The events, yes. The depiction, no.

In my personal opinion Ms. Nicelle's father was a member of a secret organization.

[Honorless]

8 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

In classical Hoid fashion I am afraid we must assume that he does not know himself.

Quote

Xyrd (paraphrased)

You've mentioned before that Hoid ends up where he needs to be.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, and usually without knowing why.

Xyrd (paraphrased)

Is chromium involved in that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. Well, he's not necessarily using chromium, but the underlying mechanic, yes.

Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016)

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Questioner

I know Hoid jumps around and meets various people that are very influential in the various books. I'm curious as to how he knows who he needs to meet, how's he lead to them.

Brandon Sanderson

This is a RAFO, but it is a question you're supposed to be asking-- You know what a RAFO is?

Questioner

No.

Brandon Sanderson

It means Read and Find Out. If you watch at the end of this book he's not always certain why he needs to be where he needs to be. So there is some measure-- something is going on here but it is not made clear yet and I don't want to clear it up with you quite yet.

Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014)

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Questioner

Does Hoid ever show up somewhere, stand around for awhile, realize that there isn't a novel-worthy plot going on, and leave?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs* Yes, Hoid gets around a lot and that has happened a couple of times. He does not know everything.

Words of Radiance San Diego signing (March 4, 2014)

 

[Lesser spren]

15 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

In classical Hoid fashion I am afraid we must assume that he does not know himself.

The events, yes. The depiction, no.

In my personal opinion Ms. Nicelle's father was a member of a secret organization.

If that is the case, and that then the "Pistol" the opponent pointed at her was most likely a form of invested art from somewhere off world. Additionally what would the metal "Kalkis"  in the text be? I'm not sure if they are Hemelurgic constructs, as hemalurgy requires blood.

[+Oltux72]

9 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

If that is the case, and that then the "Pistol" the opponent pointed at her was most likely a form of invested art from somewhere off world. Additionally what would the metal "Kalkis"  in the text be? I'm not sure if they are Hemelurgic constructs, as hemalurgy requires blood.

May I suggest you reask this in the generic Cosmere section, if you are ready for full spoilers? Any further answer would be a sequence of spoiler spaces.

[Honorless]

9 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

If that is the case, and that then the "Pistol" the opponent pointed at her was most likely a form of invested art from somewhere off world.

Yup! Have you read Arcanum Unbounded? Mistborn: Secret History and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell specifically.

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Additionally what would the metal "Kalkis"  in the text be? I'm not sure if they are Hemelurgic constructs, as hemalurgy requires blood.

This one, I suspect, is made-up 

[Kingsdaughter613]

On 7/6/2021 at 10:17 PM, Lesser spren said:

In "The Bands of Mourning" the broad sheet of the book featured a story called "Constructs of antiquity". I, like most people I assume, believed the to be pure entertainment, a fiction within a fiction. 

That was until I saw this:

 

Why the heck is Hoid in there?! Does that mean the events in here are canon?!

Take a look at the map in the front. The torn one that Nazh ‘acquired’ for Khriss. Now you know how he got it... 

[Lesser spren]

16 hours ago, Honorless said:

Yup! Have you read Arcanum Unbounded? Mistborn: Secret History and Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell specifically.

Are you implying that Man That Stole the Map imprisioned a Shade in his weapon Danny phantom style? How would someone go about doing that.

[+Invocation]

1 hour ago, Lesser spren said:

Are you implying that Man That Stole the Map imprisioned a Shade in his weapon Danny phantom style? How would someone go about doing that.

It could be done. We have proof of concept from a reading Brando did a while back, and I'd imagine that while Shades would be difficult to make it happen with, if you're careful and have silver/aluminum, you can do it.

[Lesser spren]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

It could be done. We have proof of concept from a reading Brando did a while back, and I'd imagine that while Shades would be difficult to make it happen with, if you're careful and have silver/aluminum, you can do it.

I doubt it's as simple as "catch a Shade with an aluminum net, put it in an aluminum box and release when desired"  Nicki Savage was able to return the investiture when she touched it, and that was after he shot the "Shade". where as silver simply destroys a Shade

Perhaps it could work if you could trap the shade in some other fashion, Maybe a gemstone could work?

[+Oltux72]

6 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

Are you implying that Man That Stole the Map imprisioned a Shade in his weapon Danny phantom style? How would someone go about doing that.

There is actually no sign that slavery is involved. In fact it may just as well be a deal. Somebody offers a device that can preserve you as a ghost in an exchange for service. Not much of a good life, but at least something.

[+Invocation]

3 hours ago, Lesser spren said:

I doubt it's as simple as "catch a Shade with an aluminum net, put it in an aluminum box and release when desired"  Nicki Savage was able to return the investiture when she touched it, and that was after he shot the "Shade". where as silver simply destroys a Shade

Perhaps it could work if you could trap the shade in some other fashion, Maybe a gemstone could work?

Maybe a gemstone. Or maybe it's Connection shenanigans. Or some combination. Or something entirely different from anything we know so far. I hope we get to see how it's done eventually, because that's something I'd love to dive into the mechanics of.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Invocation

[+Oltux72]

On 7.7.2021 at 11:33 PM, Lesser spren said:

Additionally what would the metal "Kalkis"  in the text be? I'm not sure if they are Hemelurgic constructs, as hemalurgy requires blood.

I think that touches on a topic that maybe discussed only in a specific forum.

[mathiau]

On 07/07/2021 at 11:33 PM, Lesser spren said:

as hemalurgy requires blood.

It actually doesn't

[Lesser spren]

On 7/13/2021 at 6:23 PM, mathiau said:

It actually doesn't

When does Hemalurgy not require metal touchin the blood?

[mathiau]

Just now, Lesser spren said:

When does Hemalurgy not require metal touchin the blood?

When it's in a Kandra for starter

Quote

Questioner

Would it be possible to make Hemalurgic dental fillings? If there were a mad-scientist dentist?

Brandon Sanderson

I've thought about this. I think that would be possible, but for Hemalurgy to really work I need it to...it doesn't actually have to be touching the blood, despite what they think. But I think your average dental filling is not going deep enough...

Questioner

Root canal!

Brandon Sanderson

*Continues* But yeah, you could make it work.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

[Lesser spren]

5 hours ago, mathiau said:

When it's in a Kandra for starter

I accept the WOB. But I have never seen any indictation that Kandra don't have blood, do you have any evidence to that wise?

[Bejarden]

17 minutes ago, Lesser spren said:

I accept the WOB. But I have never seen any indictation that Kandra don't have blood, do you have any evidence to that wise?

From the description we get from Mistwraiths I assumed there was no blood. Also True bodies don’t seem to have any either

[mathiau]

On 16/07/2021 at 1:27 AM, Lesser spren said:

I accept the WOB. But I have never seen any indictation that Kandra don't have blood, do you have any evidence to that wise?

They can bleed but they can't bleed to death, if Hemalurgy required blood contact the would.

Edited July 18, 2021 by mathiau

[Honorless]

On 7/15/2021 at 11:22 PM, Lesser spren said:

When does Hemalurgy not require metal touchin the blood?

Hemalurgy can be used on

Stormlight spoilers

Spoiler

Spren

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Mr. Suit

Can spren - like Syl - be pierced by hemalurgic spike? Will it give some effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. A spren can be pierced by Invested metal…

Oversleep

Could it be spiked?

Brandon Sanderson

Could a spike be used to give abilities to spren? That’s not going to work really well.

Oversleep

Could you steal from a spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could steal the Investiture of a spren. Any Investiture can be used in a spike if you know what you’re doing. It’s actually not that hard to use one on a spren.

Oversleep

Because I thought you said Hemalurgy needs moving blood.

Brandon Sanderson

It needs, uh, yeah… there are places where spren have more physical form, more tangible form.

Questioner

Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, no, not Roshar.

Questioner

The Cognitive Realm on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, if you go to the Cognitive Realm on Roshar the spren act differently than they do.

Oversleep

So you could spike in the Cognitive Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah I’ll leave a RAFO with you on that. That’s your fifth one. So there are ways to get any Investiture into Hemalurgy if you know what you’re doing. But yeah this is not something that would be a common use for Hemalurgy. Let’s just say that.

Oversleep

We do not concern ourselves with common uses.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, I know you don’t. But yeah Hemalurgy, when you’re spiking into somebody you… you’ll see when we get around to it.

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

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Brandon Sanderson

I've thought about this. I think that would be possible, but for Hemalurgy to really work I need it to...it doesn't actually have to be touching the blood, despite what they think.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

 

 

Hmm... the Kalkis could refer to something else in the Cosmere, yes, the last narratively important Cosmere magic system, the Aethers. They've made their debut, so they're canon, but we don't know much about them. Could also be weird South Scadrian tech, maybe?