[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[WhiteLeeopard]

Quote

“What’s wrong?” she hissed. “You knew that dead man, didn’t you? Do you know who killed him?”

He looked her in the eyes. “I have no idea who did this, Shallan. But I am going to find out.”

Adolin didn't lie to Shallan at all. I've been looking at all his interactions with a magnifying glass. He said he knew nothing about the second murder.

[+eveorjoy]

I'm going to put down my reactions and then read the other comments. If my opinions change based on what I read from your comments I will edit this post.

Chapter 7

*Yeah a follow-up to Kaladin's last two chapters. Good.  I love how far Kaladin got without summoning his Shardblade. While still dark-eyed and looking like a vagabond, the soldiers still were going to let him go. He still had to call Syl to make everyone follow him, but they weren't going to arrest him on the spot. Kaladin exudes that much authority by sheer will alone.

*Syl approved of the punch as I thought she would, but I like that Kaladin realized his mistake. He has a long way to go, but he has come a long way since the beginning of WoR. 

*I didn't get why at first Lirin was so sad that Kaladin had a shardblade. Then I realized it was because Lirin knows the only way to get a shardblade is to kill at least one person. That is not how Kaladin got his blade, but he is correct that Kaladin is a killer now and a talented one. 

*It is weird reading people call Kaladin "Brightlord," but that is his correct title now. 

*I love how Laral took charge and that she has the blond streaks back in her hair. She doesn't need to be saved.

*Kaladin has a new baby brother.  How cute. I'm happy for Hesina, Lirin, and Kaladin. I don't get why other people were bothered by the idea of them having another child. Hesina was still young enough and they aren't replacing Tien.

*Lirin is disappointed, but Hesina's awespren shows she is at least is proud of her son. I hope that Kaladin is able to get her and Oroden to Urithru. I'm not surprised Lirin wouldn't leave Hearthstone. Someone has to heal the wounded there. Though I do wonder if everyone will be pulled into Kholinar before long just to survive.

 

Chapter 8

*Yay! Shallan Chapter!  Though this chapter and the next seemed more about Dalinar and Adolin than Shallan.

*Shallan doesn't want to hate Pattern and claims she doesn't, but she still hasn't sorted her feelings. Pattern is her sword, so she does hate him in at least in one form. She can function this way, but for how long. 

*I wonder what Jasnah is going to say when she hears everyone referring to Shallan as an Elsecaller.  Shallan wants to keep her full powers on the down low. 

*So Lyn the scout wants to be a fighter eh? Do we have another Radiant in the making?

*Dalinar's powers seem to enhance other Radiant's powers. I wonder what he can do with Kaladin and Renarin.

*Renarin has seen the champion. I wish he would tell everyone else what he has seen. At this point, his tight lipped nature is working against the group. I love Renarin, but he needs to speak up. 

*So they need to open and Oathgate in Azir and we know of a certain awesome girl who just got her shardfork. I wonder of Lift's interlude will be about opening that gate. 

*Wait!  Another murder! 

 

Chapter 9

*The descriptions of Urithru are awesome. I wonder if it is all Shardblade made.

*Maybe they should stop sending Bridge 4 on scouting missions. There are former murderers among them and people might get the wrong idea if they keep finding bodies.

*So we have a copycat killer. Adolin didn't do this one. At least Kaladin will not be blamed, but I fear Bridge 4 might still be.

*Renarin knows something again. I wish we could at least get a Renarin POV so we know what is going on in his head. 

*This chapter mostly feels like Shallan is the camera along for the ride. Even her interactions with Adolin are more about Adolin than her.

*Adolin is in charge of the investigation. I've seen that trope before. So if it does follow the trope Adolin will almost get away with the murder until he cracks under pressure and spills the beans.

 

Of the three chapters this week, chapter 7 was my favorite. It is awesome to see Kaladin embracing his place as a Knights Radiant and we finally have follow up on elements from book one. I enjoyed the parts of chapter 8 that showed us more of Shallan. The rest wasn't bad. It was just perfunctory plot elements to move the story along. Some of what is going on with the Adolin/ Sadeas murder plot are tropes I have seen before. Death Note and Dexter come to mind. However, I am excited to see what Brandon will do with those tropes. 

Edited September 12, 2017 by eveorjoy

[Calderis]

Liars tend to take getting lied to pretty harshly. Projection is a wonderfully hypocritical part of psychology. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Hischier said:

Oh, I'm sure she won't be happy, but while I think there will be a big conflict between them at some point, I don't think it'll directly relate to him killing Sadeas or lying to her about it.  

Yeah, that's true. I don't think it will play a big part in that.

[Hischier]

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Liars tend to take getting lied to pretty harshly. Projection is a wonderfully hypocritical part of psychology. 

Yeah, but that's more of a distrust thing. Like, people who cheat tend to be the ones who suspect cheating. I don't think Shallan fits that mold. 

[mariapapadia]

After reading all 7 pages, I don't have much to say that hasn't been said. 

I noticed someone mentioned how Kaladin thinks of Urithiru like home, how he contained himselft to go much harder on Roshone and he even mentions something along the lines he's happy with the person he is becoming. That combined with how he exited the scene, makes me really happy because it shows how much he has changed and matured in some ways. Hopefully no more "Brooding Eyes" 

My first instinct was that Renarin killed the second victim to distract attention from Adolin, but for some reason I don't find that much sense into it and he doesn't strike me like the kind of person who could be so composed after comiting a premeditated murder. But he definitely knows what's going on with Adolin and I think he's not the only one. My other thought was that someone else saw Adolin killing Sadeas and now they are playing with him, torturing to see if and when he will break. Why ? I don't know, it's more of a feeling. 

Also someone pointed out that we are reading and projecting so much into what we are reading, that some things might not be that important afterall. Although it's an interesting experience and I like how everyone here plays a little detective role. 

Offtopic, I guess waiting for new chapters everyweek is like waiting for the new GoT episode. I jumped off that bandwagon a couple of years ago, but know I understand how everyone around me felt every week. 

[Jaconis]

I've been thinking about the two visions Dalinar sees that the Stormfather does not (the childhood with warm light at the end of WoR and seeing what he calls the champion in the beginning of OB). Is it plausible that they come from Renarin? Perhaps they, unknowingly, did what Shallan and Dalinar do with the map and Dalinar somehow enhances Renarin's powers and sees some future or past (or both). We can't really know one way or another since we don't actually know what Renarin can do, or what was going on with Dalinar and Shallan. I like the idea though. 

[The Invested Beard]

Just now, Jaconis said:

I've been thinking about the two visions Dalinar sees that the Stormfather does not (the childhood with warm light at the end of WoR and seeing what he calls the champion in the beginning of OB). Is it plausible that they come from Renarin? Perhaps they, unknowingly, did what Shallan and Dalinar do with the map and Dalinar somehow enhances Renarin's powers and sees some future or past (or both). We can't really know one way or another since we don't actually know what Renarin can do, or what was going on with Dalinar and Shallan. I like the idea though. 

That is a really interesting idea and I can see it being true, definitely.

[Ansalem]

17 minutes ago, eveorjoy said:

*I didn't get why at first Lirin was so sad that Kaladin had a shardblade. Then I realized it was because Lirin knows the only way to get a shardblade is to kill at least one person. That is not how Kaladin got his blade, but he is correct that Kaladin is a killer now and a talented one. 

Well, he did actually earn a Shardblade like that, though. Plate, too, for that matter.

[Ryder]

1 minute ago, The Invested Beard said:

That is a really interesting idea and I can see it being true, definitely.

I've wondered if the warm light vision wasn't somehow related to Shallan.  The WoR chapter 47 epigraph says 

Quote

"Yet, were the orders not disheartened by so great a defeat, for the Lightweavers provided spiritual sustenance; they were enticed by those glorious creations to venture on a second assault."

which reminds me a bit of how Dalinar felt during/after that vision

[+eveorjoy]

Just now, Ansalem said:

Well, he did actually earn a Shardblade like that, though. Plate, too, for that matter.

Well, yes. Kaladin has earned several plates and blades by this point, just not his personal blade. Kaladin didn't have to kill anyone to get his Syl shardblade. He just needed to save someone. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

He didn't kill anyone either for the shards he earned from Adolin. But that was considered a nearly mythical event for a brightlord to give shards to a darkeyes.

Edited September 12, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Musica]

Haven't read through everything yet but-

OMG that Kaladin chapter was everything I could have asked for and more!!! I knew he had a new brother! And we got to see Laral!

For a second there, when Lirin wasn't surprised to see Kal's Shardblade (before he told everyone he was a Radiant) I thought he was gonna say he is a Radiant as well or knew Kal had the potential...Alas, not so haha

I'm so happy Kal revealed himself as a Radiant so fast!! That chapter was amazing. 

He left way quicker then I thought he would, though. Too fast- I'm positive he would go back to Hearthstone sooner rather than later. There are still things to resolve. 

Now.

Is it just me or is Renarin seriously suspicious?? Shallan' s reaction to him just reinforce that.  My current theory is he knows Adolin killed Sadeas and is covering for him by making another completely identical kill. (It's probably not true but I still like the idea haha).

And his reaction to Dalinar' s description of Odium's Champion! Could Renarin maybe somehow (pff) become that champion?? Or maybe he saw a vision of him?

As for the killer- if it's not Renarin, it has to be someone who either saw the actual murder or saw the murder scene from up close and personal to have made the kill so identical. Who do you think it could be (other than Ren lol)- Someone who is covering for Adolin? Someone taking advantage of one murder to settle some old score? Someone looking to stir up trouble? 

 

Bondsmiths can 'draw' on other Radiants to make what they want! That's so storming cool! Just think of the possibilities! It will probably allow them to do different things depending on the Order of the Radiants around them. 

 

Why isn't it November already??? I can't wait anymore to be able to read it all at once!

 

*Loved how people started calling Bridge Four the Windrunners:)

**What about Mara? Why didn't we see her? 

***Urithiru is weird ~

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by Musica

[scifan]

2 hours ago, Snakh said:

You people keep inadvertently reminding me that I still need to read Warbreaker. I think it's the only Cosmere novel I haven't read yet. I also haven't read White Sand, but it's technically not a novel. I do most of my reading in the form of audiobooks, and there isn't one for White Sand and there won't be one. I'll probably eventually pony up for it though.

Warbreaker is available as an audio book... 

[WhiteLeeopard]

Did anyone else think the Kaladin-Syl ship went up a few points? With saying she was a woman, and shouldn't use her to hit things ^^. I'm generally not a fan of ships, but Syl-Kaladin I can get behind.

[scifan]

1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I'm a bit surprised Kaladin left so quickly Hearthstone. And sad he didn't introduce Sylphrena to his parents. "Mom, Dad, I want to introduce you to someone very special to me"

 

I'd rather been hoping for this... but alas, it didn't happen, at least not yet.

[Sliverofnone]

Anyone else think that if Adolin is to become a Radiant things are about to get much worse for him? He is like the only character that is not 'broken,' so something very bad must happen to him if he is to become a KR. Maybe the whole reason for the murder of Sadeas is to make him fall and be reborn?

[Starla]

I'm a little concerned about the thousands of people waiting at the Narak oathgate. It sounds like they'll be stuck there until they get some more stormlight to open the gate. Do all of these people have to wait on top of the plateaus or can they stay inside the old ruins of the city? What happens when the next everstorm or highstorm rolls through? Also, it seems like Shallan's brothers should have made it to the oathgate by now, but there is no mention of them.

It seems ominous that spanreeds to the queen are going unanswered. It makes me think she and her scribes are no longer in the palace. Is she dead and/or in hiding? Why didn't she take her spanreed with her, at least one to Navani or Elhokar? I hope Kaladin makes his way there quickly so we can see what's happening. (And speaking of spanreeds, it is confirmed they do require stormlight. Now we know!)

Interesting that Renarin is still wearing his Bridge Four uniform. He gets more and more mysterious by the chapter. I am holding out hope that there is nothing nefarious going on with him, and that what others interpret as "creepy" is just him being quiet and confused about how to interact with the world and his new abilities. Can't wait to be inside his head.

It is strange to hear people calling Kaladin brightlord! He didn't seem to blink an eye. I love that's he's embracing his destiny so quickly. I know some folks think that two books of moping and reluctance is too long, but just coming off a Wheel of Time reread, I impressed that it took him fewer to 12 books to become his awesome powerful self. And the scene with baby Oroden was too sweet for words. 

It sounds like Kaladin flew Shallan up to one of the mountain peaks at some point. It's awesome that he's able to carry people around. I hope he can take some of the bridge four guys with him in the future, it's no fun having them split apart.

Most importantly, I really want to see Shallan’s surrealistic architectural drawings.

[GeneralStu]

I have a question. What language does Oroden mean Child of Peace in? Is it the Alethi language and they don't translate it to English in the book because it is a proper noun or is it a different in book language? 

[Ciridae]

I haven't read the entire thread yet but I have some (maybe) new thoughts.

With communication out of Kholinar having died, I'm thinking it has already fallen. Odium must know the value of the Oathgates, and with the amount of listeners already in the city, and the city in chaos during the riots, I think they seized the opportunity and took over. The other oathgate cites are fine because Odium is gathering his forces around them more a more coordinated attack. I think the riots we're the deciding factor if Kholinar really has fallen. 

The fight on the cover could even be an assault on Kholinar by the humans, instead of the voidbringers. But I guess that's a stretch, because why would Jasnah fix a broken wall in that case, unless they were being attacked from outside of the city as well.

 

I'm starting to think that the reason seeing the future is considered of Odium, is that when a Truthwatcher shares what they have seen, bad things happen. That must be incredibly difficult, seeing horrible dangers and not being able to do anything, because if you share what you see something worse happens. Maybe Odium isn't capable of seeing the future very well, so he spies on the Truthwatchers, and when they share what they see he knows and adjusts his plans. 

[teknopathetic]

My bet for the new killer is Sadeas' wife. She was pretty clever, and she wouldnt just sit back and let people get away with the murder. 

I love the fact that Shallan cant draw one of the buildings. It has a very Nightvale vibe to it. Maybe there is some magic on the building that prevents it from being spied upon, remotely-viewed, or transformed via magic (if you can't understand the identity then likely inis harder to transform)? 

Edited September 14, 2017 by teknopathetic

[Amaror]

I also have to say that I am suspicious of Renarin somehow. He might be the Copycat, though I have a different theory as to why. We don't really know what Truthwatchers do. When he predicted the coming of the Everstorm Renarin didn't come out and warn his father directly. He scratched very, VERY vague messages on the wall. When Dalinar was actively looking for Radiants, he still didn't come out. He also never made his message more precise. Always a vague warning. What if there is an oath of restricted interference for Truthwatchers? Seeing the future is thought as evil by the society which has to have some reason. Maybe there is a danger to a Truthwatchers power if they reveal too much about it. So they have to be mysterious and vague about everything. Trying to reveal their knowledge, but not actually revealing it directly. So what if Renarin commited the murder, or even just recreated it with someone allready dead, in order to force Adoling to come out. It looks very much like Renarin knows that Adolin did it. This is just wild-speculation of course, but maybe theres some truth in it.

[Harbour]

-My god, this Kaladin chapter was an aboslutely badass. I love Sanderson didnt slow down the action and plot. Kaladin grew up since the first two books. Now he does what is right and does it with a class. I have a good imagination so the scene with him hovering above the ground holding the spear of light before the crowd in the rain has some serious God vibe. I share an awe with Hesina witnessing that moment.

I also like Sanderson gave Kaladin a new, very good reason to fight - his newborn brother. I had some doubts before, but know im pretty sure - Kaladin wont turn out to be the Fallen Hero. He will fight for his brother till the very end.

And i think the voice Syl mentioned in the chapter 5 was Oroden's voice, calling for her. I guess Oroden will become the Knight Radiant in the future.

-As for Shallan.

Quote

Maybe when Brightlord Brooding-Eyes returned, he could fly her to another peak along the mountain chain.

 

While she ment nothing romantic, the scene itself would be pretty romantic)

-Adolin plot is probably the most interesting for me in Urithiru. What a turn of events. Someone copies his way of murdering Sadeas. I have a two questions: 1)Did the copycat saw Adolin killing Sadeas? 2)Who did that?

I can see Renarin knowing about Adolin, since he is the Thruthwatcher, but im sure he is not a murderer. Come on, its Renarin, he wont kick a dog.

I have two candidates - Ialai and Ghostbloods.

Ghostbloods because they can use that knowledge to manipulate Shallan.

Ialai because we heard nothing about her at all after Sadeas death. Its strange as hell! I guess there will be the case of "Pandora box" Adolin opened killing Sadeas. Ialai will bring Kholins pain, youll see.

-And, finally, the Odium's champion. Im convinced Renarin saw what Dalinar didnt - Champion's face. He is the Truthwatcher (c). And i bet he looked at Dalinar asking himself did father see what Renarin saw? Who Renarin saw is another question. I bet on Kholin. Adolin, Dalinar or Renarin himself.

 

 

 

[mariapapadia]

17 minutes ago, Starla said:

Interesting that Renarin is still wearing his Bridge Four uniform. He gets more and more mysterious by the chapter. I am holding out hope that there is nothing nefarious going on with him, and that what others interpret as "creepy" is just him being quiet and confused about how to interact with the world and his new abilities. Can't wait to be inside his head.

 

Now that you mention this.. I am not sure if this was discussed somewhere or not, but if Renarin is in the Bridge 4 group, does that mean he could also get "powers" via Kaladin? I know he's alreay a Radiant, but it made me wonder.. or do you think that only applies for the men that have been with Kaladin from the beginning ?

Edited September 12, 2017 by mariapapadia

[+Wax]

One thing I don't get is what became of the Honorblade that Kal got from Szeth?