[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[Nymix]

31 minutes ago, Azul said:

The second murder is very curious,  The suspect pool could be very large so lets look a reasons why someone would do a copy cat killing.

 

1) To put more pressure to investigate.  Lets face it, even though he was a highprince not that many people are going to be upset over Sadeas bitting it.

2) Someone knows it was Adolin.  If this is the case it could almost be a way to protect Adolin,  if someone can show he has a alibi for this murder that takes suspicion that he killed Sadeas.  

3) to cause chaos.

 

Tired now so can't think of other reasons.

I actually don't think the suspect pool can be very large at all. It is either 1) someone extremely lucky who stumbled upon the body before bridge four/ Sadeas' men (which I believe is unlikely) or 2) Someone from bridge four or those important enough to have been brought to the scene of the crime.

[Nymix]

9 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Okay, my thoughts about potential murder suspects:

-Renarin: If Renarin knows of his brothers action, then this might be done by him. He might want to do it to save his brother, which will probably end up breaking Adolin instead. This might in turn lead to Renarin taking the blame for Adolin, and being punished. Discovering that both his sons are murderers would also have a profound effect on Dalinar, and would affect the Kholins reputation in a very serious way. That said, is Renarin well-trained enough to take Mr. Copycorpse down in one-on-one combat? 

I don't think Renarin is a credible suspect; if he wanted to take the blame to cover for Adolin there isn't really a need for him to do any killing.

e: Sorry for the double post, I did a dumb and completely missed the very clearly labelled multiquote feature 

Edited September 12, 2017 by Nymix

[yulerule]

I'm not really getting a sense of scale for Urithru. Can somebody compare it to Earth skyscrapers or something?

[the_archduke]

I wonder if any of the unmade are malen or femalen?  They would almost have to be if they are the Listener's gods.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Just now, Nymix said:

I don't think Renarin is a credible suspect; if he wanted to take the blame to cover for Adolin there isn't really a need for him to do any killing.

I think you misunderstood my post: Renarin wants to kill someone allied to the Kholins in order to cast suspicion off Adolin. Anyone who knows Adolin would know that he wouldn't murder his fathers allies. What Renarin can't foresee is that Adolin will be tasked with the investigation and break under the stress. The guilt and love for his brother would make Renarin jump in for him when he is found out. Renarins plan has never been to cast blame onto himself though.

[the_archduke]

1 minute ago, yulerule said:

I'm not really getting a sense of scale for Urithru. Can somebody compare it to Earth skyscrapers or something?

Burj Kalifa is only 160 stories to Urithiru's 180

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

3 minutes ago, yulerule said:

I'm not really getting a sense of scale for Urithru. Can somebody compare it to Earth skyscrapers or something?

Its bigger than all of them.

[yulerule]

3 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Burj Kalifa is only 160 stories to Urithiru's 180

Um. Wow. But Burj Kalifa is within the troposphere. It gets rained on and everything. I got the feeling that not only is Urithru freakishly tall, it's on a high elevation so that it is completely above highstorm/Everstorm.

Edited September 12, 2017 by yulerule

[Nymix]

Just now, Toaster Retribution said:

I think you misunderstood my post: Renarin wants to kill someone allied to the Kholins in order to cast suspicion off Adolin. Anyone who knows Adolin would know that he wouldn't murder his fathers allies. What Renarin can't foresee is that Adolin will be tasked with the investigation and break under the stress. The guilt and love for his brother would make Renarin jump in for him when he is found out. Renarins plan has never been to cast blame onto himself though.

Aaaaaah I see now, yeah. Well the reasoning makes sense, but do we think that Renarin is capable of murdering even in circumstances such as these? He doesn't strike me as a warrior (nor a killer, but if we're entertaining the notion...) and it seems like such a hasty act that I'm not sure fits his character.

[the_archduke]

1 minute ago, yulerule said:

Um. Wow. But Burj Kalifa is within the troposphere. It gets rained and everything. I got the feeling that not only is Urithru freakishly tall, it's on a high elevation so that it is completely above highstorm/Everstorm.

Yeah, put Burj Kalifa on top of Mount Everest and we are getting an idea of height.  Urithiru has to be massively wider than a skyscraper though.

[the_archduke]

1 minute ago, Nymix said:

Aaaaaah I see now, yeah. Well the reasoning makes sense, but do we think that Renarin is capable of murdering even in circumstances such as these? He doesn't strike me as a warrior (nor a killer, but if we're entertaining the notion...) and it seems like such a hasty act that I'm not sure fits his character.

How is Renarin going to wrestle someone to the ground and stab them in the eye with a knife?  Mraize could do it.  Ialai could arrange for someone to do it.  Adolin did it once (though he is injured now and I am in no way advocating that he did it).  Renarin is a bookish, spindly guy who doesn't know how to fight.  I don't see lightweaving or regrowth assisting either.   Renarin as the copycat killer makes no sense. 

[Ansalem]

1 minute ago, the_archduke said:

Yeah, put Burj Kalifa on top of Mount Everest and we are getting an idea of height.  Urithiru has to be massively wider than a skyscraper though.

Well, it is a city, not just a giant tower. Though I get the sense that it's mostly the tower with the 10 Oathgates around a courtyard. I kind of imagine it as being a tower with the footprint of a small city and the Oathgates in a semi-circle out in front of it. It has fields for farming and everything.

I really really hope one of the art pieces in the book is Shallan's drawing of the whole thing once she actually manages it.

[Hischier]

First post here.

I'm glad Kaladin seems to be taking his new oath to heart. I was a little disappointed about his interaction with Laral but I don't think we've seen the last of her (not that she'll be super important, just that she'll be in a few more Kaladin scenes).  I think we got some foreshadowing with Laral saying Kaladin just like his dad, trying to save people even if they want him to leave them alone (I don't know how but I wonder if this ends up relating to his next Ideal).  And no, I don't think Kaladin's new brother is the antichrist. Also the thing about sending glyphs to let Dalinar know he's safe makes me wonder who is going to have to go and rescue Kaladin.  I do hope Hesina ends up taking Kaladin up on his offer for safety. 

I hope we get to see Lift interacting with some of the characters in this book (but based on the postscript to Edgedancer I'm not holding my breath). It does seem to be a perfect opportunity to get her involved though, given the Oathgate in Azimir and Lift's location.  

I don't think Adolin ends up telling Shallan what he did, I think she finds out first or is led to the discovery.  No clue who killed the second guy (probably the ghostbloods).  Surprised Shallan hasn't noticed that Pattern is a kind of lie detector. I don't think she'll end up caring too much about him killing Sadeas, on the other hand, Dalinar's reaction will be interesting to see.  

 

[Nymix]

13 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

How is Renarin going to wrestle someone to the ground and stab them in the eye with a knife?  Mraize could do it.  Ialai could arrange for someone to do it.  Adolin did it once (though he is injured now and I am in no way advocating that he did it).  Renarin is a bookish, spindly guy who doesn't know how to fight.  I don't see lightweaving or regrowth assisting either.   Renarin as the copycat killer makes no sense. 

Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's most likely someone we haven't seen yet (wether it was orchestrated by Ialai or the Ghostbloods is definitely a possibility).

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

18 minutes ago, Nymix said:

Aaaaaah I see now, yeah. Well the reasoning makes sense, but do we think that Renarin is capable of murdering even in circumstances such as these? He doesn't strike me as a warrior (nor a killer, but if we're entertaining the notion...) and it seems like such a hasty act that I'm not sure fits his character.

Renarin is wierd. Who knows how his psyche works?

[+Spicker]

31 minutes ago, PunSpren said:

 

Small quibble, Sedimentary sandstone can be formed a couple different ways. Sandstone from compacted sand dunes and similar sources can and do have swirls and it dances in more ways than just horizontal layers.

This is true. I was more thinking of on a large scale. Almost all my experience with sand dunes shows a very characteristic cross-bedding feature going (which does not sound like what we see at all in Urithiru). I'm not saying other features don't show up, but swirls in sediment are definitely not the norm. You usually need very unique circumstances to produce it. I have a hard time imagining an entire outcropping large enough to house an enormous building will fit under those circumstances. 

My other issue with viewing this as a sandstone is that it isn't exactly that resistant to erosion (it's not the weakest, but it isn't the strongest either). There may not be any storms reaching the area, but the building still seems to have some type of supernatural resistance to the elements. I doubt that this rock type has any real Earthly analog, which adds to the fantasy element.

This is especially true since Shallan described the lines as leading her to Dalinar. It's almost like this rock was formed into the shape of the building rather than being carved from it (which is also implied). Maybe it is a little of both? Carved and formed?

Also, am I remembering correctly that some rock can not be cut by a shardblade? Is that the same rock that makes up Urithiru? To go along with that (trying not to go to much on a tangent), Is there somewhere in Urithiru that would imprison a shardbearer? 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Hischier said:

I don't think she'll end up caring too much about him killing Sadeas, on the other hand, Dalinar's reaction will be interesting to see.  

I don't know. She's pretty convinced, that Adolin is not a deceitful guy, yet he lied to her pretty blatantly at the end of Chapter 9. Could mean more to her than we expect.

Not that he killed Sadeas, but that he lied to her.

Edited September 12, 2017 by SLNC

[Nymix]

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Renarin is wierd. Who knows how his psyche works?

I really can't wait until we get some Renarin viewpoint chapters.

[geralt]

1 minute ago, SLNC said:

I don't know. She's pretty convinced, that Adolin is not a deceitful guy, yet he lied to her pretty blatantly at the end of Chapter 9. Could mean more to her than we expect.

If she made a big deal out of that, it would be really hypocritical. Seriously, I lost count of how many times she deceived him/straight up lied to his face in WoR...

[Azul he/him]

17 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

How is Renarin going to wrestle someone to the ground and stab them in the eye with a knife?  Mraize could do it.  Ialai could arrange for someone to do it.  Adolin did it once (though he is injured now and I am in no way advocating that he did it).  Renarin is a bookish, spindly guy who doesn't know how to fight.  I don't see lightweaving or regrowth assisting either.   Renarin as the copycat killer makes no sense. 

I would guess infusing stormlight would give him some advantage even without a ton of skill.  And it does mention that the victims clothing was disheveled from an extended fight.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, geralt said:

If she made a big deal out of that, it would be really hypocritical. Seriously, I lost count of how many times she deceived him/straight up lied to his face in WoR...

Well, it's Shallan. She's pretty good about forgetting her own faults.

[Nathrangking he/him]

I feel as though the sky just came crashing down Tezim a sliver of the almighty? Hmm... where have we heard something like that before?.... Perhaps a scadrian other than Iyatil has landed on Roshar. Rogue Kandra anyone?  

Edited September 12, 2017 by Nathrangking

[PunSpren he/him]

3 minutes ago, Spicker said:

This is true. I was more thinking of on a large scale. Almost all my experience with sand dunes shows a very characteristic cross-bedding feature going (which does not sound like what we see at all in Urithiru). I'm not saying other features don't show up, but swirls in sediment are definitely not the norm. You usually need very unique circumstances to produce it. I have a hard time imagining an entire outcropping large enough to house an enormous building will fit under those circumstances. 

My other issue with viewing this as a sandstone is that it isn't exactly that resistant to erosion (it's not the weakest, but it isn't the strongest either). There may not be any storms reaching the area, but the building still seems to have some type of supernatural resistance to the elements. I doubt that this rock type has any real Earthly analog, which adds to the fantasy element.

This is especially true since Shallan described the lines as leading her to Dalinar. It's almost like this rock was formed into the shape of the building rather than being carved from it (which is also implied). Maybe it is a little of both? Carved and formed?

Also, am I remembering correctly that some rock can not be cut by a shardblade? Is that the same rock that makes up Urithiru? To go along with that (trying not to go to much on a tangent), Is there somewhere in Urithiru that would imprison a shardbearer? 

Ya I see what your saying, I really hope when the books arrive there are at least some of Shallan's sketches of her trying to capture parts of the city. Im having a hard time imagining the immensity of it! It would be really neat if in "the threads of a screw" chapter there was some artwork. It would go well with the callout to Shallan's taking a memory of it. I absolutely love the fact that we get such great art in the Stormlight Archive !

 

The material your thinking of may not be rock, It looked like a gray metal from the description in WOR, It made me think of the shardblade guards as well.

[Hischier]

1 minute ago, SLNC said:

I don't know. She's pretty convinced, that Adolin is not a deceitful guy, yet he lied to her pretty blatantly at the end of Chapter 9. Could mean more to her than we expect.

Oh, I'm sure she won't be happy, but while I think there will be a big conflict between them at some point, I don't think it'll directly relate to him killing Sadeas or lying to her about it.  

[+robardin he/him]

I find the idea of Adolin investigating a murder kind of funny, even if it weren't for the fact that he himself is the murderer he's looking for (one of them, anyway), because of his exchange with Kaladin in planning for handling another visit from the Assassin in White:

Words of Radiance, Ch. 58:

Quote

"You won't have a Shardblade, but won't need one, because of... you know."
"I know?" Kaladin felt a spike of alarm.
"Yeah... you know." Adolin glanced away and shrugged, as if trying to act nonchalant. "That thing."
"What thing?"
"The thing... with the... um, stuff?"

Adolin as an interrogator would spill more secrets than he extracted.
 

Edited September 12, 2017 by robardin