[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[Calderis]

10 minutes ago, Catladyman said:

Thanks @Calderis! 

 

I still think that everyone's assertion that Renarin must be a murderer/odiums champion/generally creepy is the result of a combination of his being on the spectrum and truthwatcher behaviors, as opposed to true foreshadowing. 

I agree. His behavior fits perfectly the description of Truthwatchers in the in world WoR. The idea that he's evil has always been ludicrous to me. 

What has he done to show anything but care for his family, striving to find a place for himself, and an unusual level of insight? His fear at literally seeing things that his religion has taught him is evil his whole life? That's totally unreasonable.... /sarcasm 

[Elena]

5 hours ago, maxal said:

 

See my above comment, she isn't targeting specific people, she is just creating confusion. She is making it look as if Sadeas's killer is killing more people and she sneakily made sure they would be among Dalinar's allied warcamps. The fact it was Perel is irrelevant, what is relevant is they all think the same killer has stuck twice. 

An assassin is probably doing it: replicating the murder is not difficult. His/her task is to copy the murder by targeting whomever it is convenient to target as long as it is a lighteyed.

I am thinking it is not normal for a fractured wrist to be painful so long after the impact. Normally, fractures aren't painful once the inflammation is gone which is usually after a few days. The fact he cannot move the hand without wincing tells me something is wrong with his wrist: he disrupted it while stabbing Sadeas. One of my theories has been Adolin's wrist gives him away.

I just really don't get how killing random lighteyes will discredit Dalinar and his allies (beyond making people worried/upset). Unless the objective is to upset Adolin as much as possible, as a political strategy is not really super effective. Who would believe that Dalinar Kholin, or one of his closest people, is going around killing random lighteyes? If the murders continue and are random, it's highly likely Adolin will have an alibi for at least one of them, which could prove a really good thing as it will be that much harder for people to believe he's behind all of the murders. If anything, this killing spree is helping Adolin's case, as it makes it looks like Sadeas was killed by the same person who also killed a person (people?) Adolin had absolutely no motive to attack.

If anything, it will be the wrist not the murders that'll give him away - totally agreed about that

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Elena said:

I just really don't get how killing random lighteyes will discredit Dalinar and his allies (beyond making people worried/upset). Unless the objective is to upset Adolin as much as possible, as a political strategy is not really super effective. Who would believe that Dalinar Kholin, or one of his closest people, is going around killing random lighteyes? If the murders continue and are random, it's highly likely Adolin will have an alibi for at least one of them, which could prove a really good thing as it will be that much harder for people to believe he's behind all of the murders. If anything, this killing spree is helping Adolin's case, as it makes it looks like Sadeas was killed by the same person who also killed a person (people?) Adolin had absolutely no motive to attack.

If anything, it will be the wrist not the murders that'll give him away - totally agreed about that

It's primarily about revenge, I think. I'm a strong believer, that Ialai is behind the second killing and she somehow knows, that Adolin is behind killing her husband, yet she has no evidence to support it. So what does she do? Kill random lighteyes in the same manner, that Adolin killed Sadeas. She tries to spook him, so that he maybe confesses by himself under the pressure. She may have anticipated, that Dalinar would appoint Adolin as an investigator, too. That woman is a snake, but what makes her so dangerous is her intelligence and capabilities. It would be her style. And her plan works. Adolin is under immense pressure already, she just has to keep it up.

Alibis? Urithiru is so large and it's current population so low, that murders can happen so far away, that bodies will be found days after they are dead or only after the persons have gone missing. And, as far as I know, they don't have any capability to determine the time of death of a corpse. It will be damnation hard for Adolin to attain an alibi, except by staying in his chambers all day long.

In conclusion, she is not trying to attack Dalinar, but is trying to attack Adolin, yet she can hurt Dalinar immensely by removing Adolin, his heir, his strongest Shardbearer, that is not a Radiant and, of course, personal damage, because Adolin is his son.

Edited September 13, 2017 by SLNC

[Yata]

I still think that "saw the future" is something too big and powerful (Realmatic speaking) to be a Resonance (and therefore something usabile without Stormlight ad fuel).

This made me continue to believe there is some kind of trick with Truthwatchers' visions...I proposed the Truthwatchers doesn't actually make the visions but rather they could intercept others' Spiritual Stream of Informations and they got the informations too...if this is true (and for now is only a speculation) Renarin recived his visions from external Seers like Dalinar, Death Rattles and maybe Cultivation.

This kind of thing seems fit quite well with the theme the Truthwatchers exibited... The Secrets.

 

About Dalinar and the Shallan's trick, It's Almost surelly his Resonance rather than a Surge as no Stormlight was involved from his part

[Metalrift]

15 minutes ago, Yata said:

I still think that "saw the future" is something too big and powerful (Realmatic speaking) to be a Resonance (and therefore something usabile without Stormlight ad fuel).

This made me continue to believe there is some kind of trick with Truthwatchers' visions...I proposed the Truthwatchers doesn't actually make the visions but rather they could intercept others' Spiritual Stream of Informations and they got the informations too...if this is true (and for now is only a speculation) Renarin recived his visions from external Seers like Dalinar, Death Rattles and maybe Cultivation.

As we have seen that surgebinders seem to receive visions, specifically Kaladin and Shallan, it could be that the Truthwatcher resonance could be improved visions, like how the Windrunner resonance is improved squires. After all, we don't know what causes the surgebinders' visions or what determines their nature. Your idea makes a great deal of sense for the nature of the Truthwatcher visions.

[Yata]

34 minutes ago, Metalrift said:

As we have seen that surgebinders seem to receive visions, specifically Kaladin and Shallan, it could be that the Truthwatcher resonance could be improved visions, like how the Windrunner resonance is improved squires. After all, we don't know what causes the surgebinders' visions or what determines their nature. Your idea makes a great deal of sense for the nature of the Truthwatcher visions.

Maybe I miss some istance but Kal and Shallan's visions are present-vision (Kal through the Stormfather's eye and Shallan see Shallash at work) both of them are not too strange it's within the scope of what Syl tells us...Knowledge spread by Connections from soul to soul.

That will be not too Investiture intensive...See the future is really Investiture intensive this is the reason I doubt they could see see the Spiritual Realm to the degree of seeing the future without Kinetic Investiture

[Pattern]

So, the spren is back. 13 pages of comments in one night? It's getting insane. So, I will write my thoughts on the new three chapters before reading/skimming this thread.

Did I mention, this is insane...

Chapter 7:

Kaladin really has embraced his KR status, he even feels ashamed to have punched the rather diminutive Roshone. The resolution was quite anticipated in the discussion last week, just it was't an "or" but an "and" of the speculations. Shardblade beats brands, no writ needed at all...Finally Kaladin stands up to his father and says that he is NOT a surgeon but a Watcher at the Rim.

Parshmen in Hearthstone. They were locked in, but the shelter was damaged by the Everstorm so they could transform. I wonder whether there were in fact deliberate gusts of wind to set them free. This does not bode well for the parshmen population, they will be voidbringers quite soon.

About spanreeds: We had some discussions about them last week, now we have at least some answers. Hearthstone is not too far off to have them, they have quite many. Even some to the hub in Tashikk, one of those is finally used. And spanreeds do need Stormlight to work, no passive conjoining fabrial here, perhaps none anywhere. But: Why the heck does Laral have a spanreed connected to the queen regent in Kholinar - that would be Aesudan, wouldn't it? She was perplexed enough when Kaladin got Navani to the spanreed.

Sprenlore: The old spren have four genders. Obviously they were thought of by Parshendi - male, malen, femalen and female spren then. Are those Adonalsium spren only, or also Honor- and Cultivation-spren?
Approximately half of Kaladin's spears were female. Poor Kal, would he be able to wield a normal spear again?
And Syl as a shardblade doesn't smash into something, keep that in mind folks!

Laral: Syl likes her. Well. I don't. She didn't change really from the flashbacks. Still haughty and know-it-all. So good riddance and shall she be happy with Roshone.

Welcome to the family, Oroden.

Chapters 8&9:

And here we have our Shallan chapters, some questions worth of discussion there, I guess there are also the respective threads.

Shallan has problems sketching the tower of Urithiru and produces fine surrealistic art. I am not sure whether her problems in drawing result in lack of proper perspective only. We'll see if Brightlord Brooding-Eyes can help her there when he comes back home.
We also see a new coping mechanism evolve. Shallan does not want to hate Pattern, so she splits him in her mind. The Blade and the Spren so to speak. Now she can try to only hate the blade and not her adorable companion. I might be a bit biased here...

David is back: "...the finery fit this bleak chamber like a lady's havah fit a pig."

And then we get the perhaps first shown synergy between Bondsmiths and Lightweavers. Shallan creates a map of Roshar based on the knowledge of the Stormfather after feeling a pull from Dalinar. Interesting possibilities arise with other orders. Might Renarin's visions in WoR also be connected to the then Proto-Bondsmith Dalinar? Did he see more than he would have been able as Truthwatcher alone?

Renarin...I start to believe he knows about Adolin killing Sadeas, he sees things. Which brings me right to the copycat murder. Who knows how Sadeas died? I guess it could be anyone who examined the body, especially Ialai. But I don't see any motivation there to kill someone else in the same manner. Except the second victim has close ties to Adolin and it can somehow help to implicate him in Sadeas' murder. To do this, someone has to know already that Adolin killed him.
Another possibility is that the second murder is supposed to distract from Sadeas' murder, so it is not seen as a unique thing. Adolin himself would be suspicious, his reaction to the second murder does not fit this though. Then there is Renarin...he could want to help his brother, therefore causing some chaos.
Adolin being given the task to examine the murders is highly ironic ;-)

Shallan is a bit suspicious of Adolin, but his reputation as being guileless and "deceitful as a newborn" keeps her from drawing conclusions for the moment. I think this is going to change soon.

Back to spanreeds. Spanreed communication to Kholinar has stopped working. This could be because of the riots, but honestly, every spanreed not worked because of riots? That would be really serious circumstances in Kholinar. Could an Unmade be responsible instead? Blocking the connection between spanreeds or corrupting the respective spren?

And finally, we got the location of the ten, perhaps nine Oathgates:
Azimir (formerly Makabakam),
Shinovar (exact location unknown)(formerly Shin Kak Nish),
Panatham (the capital of Babatharnam)(formerly Sela Tales),
Rall Elorim (in the North of Iri)(formerly Iri),
Rira (probably Kurth)(formerly Rischir, yes that island belonged to Rischir),
Jah Keved (city not mentioned)(formerly Valhav),
Thaylen City(formerly Thalath),
Stormseat/Narak(formerly Natanatan),
Kholinar(formerly Alethela)
and one lost in Aimia -  the Island that was destroyed (formerly Aimia).

How destroyed Amia is, we will probably see later, there was a reading of an Interlude featuring a Soulcaster travelling to Aimia. Didn't look to be totally destroyed there, but it was only a short glimpse of Aimia at the shore.

 

As for the race of thread opening: I guess I will step back next week, no need to make the work of our moderators harder than necessary. Since the links are quite predictable, there could be even more opened threads during one or two seconds. Given good weather, I will be at vine harvest anyways ;-(
 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Pattern

[WhiteLeeopard]

8 hours ago, heroofpages said:

I'm pretty sure that somewhere in WoK or WoR it mentions that Elhokar does have a considerable amount of skill with a blade. Though because I don't have a source I will treat that as false until I can find the passage. Nonetheless I would say that giving Elhokar the honorblade does make some sense. He is a very important man, and the honorblade may be one of the best ways to protect him. Maybe in the future we will find that it is best used by someone else, but for now the choice seems sound. He could even lend it for battles in which he won't participate.

Its a dumb idea because Elhokar has shown he is easier than a toddler to influence. That much power will need to be on the hands of someone that is very responsible, and ideally embody at least some ideals of the KR. Right now KR have bad reputation from the past. People see abilities = Radiant. Having an irresponsible, tantrum throwing man-king flying around will increase people's doubts about the greatness of the Radiants. Honestly, Dalinar and Shallan need to hire a PR manager stat.

8 hours ago, axcellence said:

Also the delayed healing for Adolin suggests nowhere near proto radiancy.

If our Adolin-fan favorite theory of awaken blade comes true, its quite possible he would have to progress quite a bit (second or third ideal) before he sees any effects. Enough to live the oaths again. On the other hand it could mean gaining a lot of abilities at the same time if/when he does .

8 hours ago, maxal said:

I am thinking it is not normal for a fractured wrist to be painful so long after the impact. Normally, fractures aren't painful once the inflammation is gone which is usually after a few days. The fact he cannot move the hand without wincing tells me something is wrong with his wrist: he disrupted it while stabbing Sadeas. One of my theories has been Adolin's wrist gives him away.

Not so sure...wasn't it a broken wrist from his fight with Szeth? Could take quite a while to heal. Its just been a week, and everyone can see he isn't resting it all that much. 

5 hours ago, mariapapadia said:

I agree with a good leader must learn to read his men and understand them, but we have to keep in mind Dalinar hasn't been a leader until recently. Wasn't that pointed out? That he was the soldier and he is learning how to lead people ?

Dalinar's Calling was always Leading. He said it in WoK. Difference is it has "changed a lot throughout his life" or something like that.

5 hours ago, mariapapadia said:

Yes, but the blade is not only a blade. That's the thing. It almost puts one on the same level as the KR given the other powers and exposes that person to the same danger, if not more because whoever gets the sword gains other powers as well. Which would make it a very desirable object. So this would contradict his idea of keeping the king safe. Regardless of Dalinar's biases or feelings when it comes to Elhokar and Adolin, I think he must realise this is much more important than comforting an ego. Plus I personaly belive that in choosing to do something like this he should at least ask Kaladin, given that fact that he "earned" it.

I totally agree Kaladin should be the one to decide who gets the Honorblade, but not because he earned it. Those simplistic might makes right ideas should be abandoned at the door when the end of the world is knocking. Kaladin should decide because he is

1. Very advanced on his Oaths (for current Radiants)

2. A Windrunner who embodies the ideals that Blade is meant to be attached to

3. The closest thing they currently have to Jezrien's heir.

Also, yes to whoever said, we are 95% sure Dalinar has the blade. Unless it has been stolen or already given to someone in the past week.

2 hours ago, Elena said:

I just really don't get how killing random lighteyes will discredit Dalinar and his allies (beyond making people worried/upset). Unless the objective is to upset Adolin as much as possible, as a political strategy is not really super effective. Who would believe that Dalinar Kholin, or one of his closest people, is going around killing random lighteyes? If the murders continue and are random, it's highly likely Adolin will have an alibi for at least one of them, which could prove a really good thing as it will be that much harder for people to believe he's behind all of the murders. If anything, this killing spree is helping Adolin's case, as it makes it looks like Sadeas was killed by the same person who also killed a person (people?) Adolin had absolutely no motive to attack

Yes, the second murder helps Adolin's case a lot if he can keep his cool and handle things right. You have to be very meticulous to spin all the threads right, and while I love Adolin, I don't think he has the skill or composure for this. I'm hoping Shallan finds out and helps him, as she definetely can handle it.

Edited September 13, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Metalrift]

16 minutes ago, Yata said:

See the future is really Investiture intensive this is the reason I doubt they could see see the Spiritual Realm to the degree of seeing the future without Kinetic Investiture

That's why I believe the Truthwatcher resonance is involved, as it may allow prediction of future possibilities based on knowledge of the present, which I think is similar to what other kinds of future sight involves. They are seeing into the spiritual realm and using that information to predict the future. However, as I don't know how the surgebinder visions work, I am not entirely sure, but if they use the spiritual realm then the Truthwatcher resonance may help to interpret what they see, thus leading to more powerful visions that "illuminate" the "progression" of the world.

Ultimately I just suspect that the Truthwatcher resonance is more powerful visions. I agree that future sight may come from shardic amplification, as could quite easily be the case for Renarin.

With regard to the honorblade I don't remember seeing anything indicating that Dalinar gave it to anyone, and he may not feel that he should as it doesn't belong to him anyway.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Metalrift

[+Extesian]

So...why haven't we seen Renarin heal anyone? Lift was doing so long before Wyndle shardforked. Renarin has progression and he hasn't bothered healing, say, Adolin's injury? Either Truthwatchers were all resonance and no surge or Renarin is a voidbinder.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Extesian

[WhiteLeeopard]

When I read the Windrunner book (TWoK) I deeply admired them, although I realized I'd never behave like that

When I read the Lightweaver book (WoR) I found an order where I could feel comfortable.

When reading a tiny excerpt from the Bondsmith book (OB) I said, "Damnation, didn't think I'd find an order I would fit even less than Windrunners. Seems I was wrong"

 

A storm blowing the wrong way and changing parshmen appears

Average Rosharan Leader (ARL): So what?

Bondsmith: A Desolation has come. We must unite.

Me: A Desolation has come. Call me when you decide you want to survive.

ARL: I have infused spheres. I'll sell them to you.

B: Alright, what is the price?

Me: Alright, incidentally you are at the end of the queue of the Oathgate, if you are still here when the next highstorm comes, too bad.

Or, me: I've put a tariff on the use of my Oathgate. Price, every bit of stormlight you have. 

ARL: I am an ARL! I demand respect.

B: Alright, I will draw out spheres of influence in Urithiru. 

Me: My city, my rules, you don't like them, door is that way. Red storm going on out there, but well... details.

ARL: I refuse to listen to you.

B: Don't you see what is going on out there? Together we can survive, please listen to me.

Me: Fair enough, who am I to interfere with free will. When you decide you want to be saved come to one of these spots, and I will take you somewhere safer. Bring stormlight. Meanwhile I will save those smart enough, or with a strong enough preservation instinct that they can be saved. The ones too dumb or too greedy to survive will die (The Mummy original one anyone?). Evolution at its finest. After all, win-win, maybe I save humanity and average IQ in Roshar goes up by 20 points. Or else we all just die.

 

I really don't have many Bondsmith instincts ^^. Still, will be fun to read.

Edited September 14, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Pattern]

So, here are my comments on 13 pages. Uff...

 

19 hours ago, Extesian said:

Confirmation Renarin is adopted. 

Or he just comes after his mother.

 

18 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

It goes very well along with a Death Rattle. There is no other baby of significance in the story yet. And having Kaladin being put in a situation where he is forced to kill his other brother to save the world would be a great end to Stormlight 5.

I definitely would not like this situation. And really, one baby in a Death Rattle and Kaladin getting a little brother. It would not be the only newborn on Roshar. And I didn't see anyone trying to shave Oroden, where the knife could slip.

 

17 hours ago, Daishi5 said:

I don't see Laral at all as being a squire, she grew up to be one of the arrogant light eyes that Kaladin hates.  When Kaladin reminds her the way Roshone treated his father and how he as good as killed Tien, she replies that Lirin had spoken bad of Roshone.  

I totally agree. I didn't read her as a mature and independent woman some others did, but as the spoiled girl who tried to influence Kaladin to pick up the spear to win a shardblade grown up. I guess there is both in her, and the fact that Syl likes her indicates that she is not too bad.

 

17 hours ago, Noppadet said:

Also the new surgeon apprentice was intentionally left a secret; I'm guessing it will be someone that Kaladin will know or will think strongly about.

I stay true to my promise form last week: I shout "Vivenna!" - she hides in Hearthstone to ... well I've still not found a reason yet.

17 hours ago, Spicker said:

I was just thinking about this more from a geological perspective, if the layers/strata are curving up or down, or in swirls, then it would have to be metamorphic rock. Sedimentary rock, like sandstone, would be in flat layers because sediment deposits don't occur at odd angles

I don't understand the fuss people make about strata in rocks. Roshar is shaped and formed by crem desposits from Highstorms. The whole continent shifts slowly westwards, since material is eroded in the east and deposited in the west. The crem layers slowly solidify to rock with natural strata. 
Mountains have to be folded up (so Roshar cannot be totally tectonically inert) which would result in curved strata.

 

14 hours ago, Starla said:

Do all of these people have to wait on top of the plateaus or can they stay inside the old ruins of the city?

There are open ruins, even quite sheltered ones - for example the ones Adolin cut into. People would be quite stupid if they stayed in the open during a Highstorm or the returning Everstorm.

 

14 hours ago, Starla said:

It sounds like Kaladin flew Shallan up to one of the mountain peaks at some point. It's awesome that he's able to carry people around.

Kaladin carrying Shallan in a close grip to the next mountain peak. How romantic - please not!

 

14 hours ago, Harbour said:

And i think the voice Syl mentioned in the chapter 5 was Oroden's voice, calling for her. I guess Oroden will become the Knight Radiant in the future.

Would be a bit early, wouldn't it?

 

13 hours ago, DSC01 said:

This is true, and I myself find that suspicious, but Honor explicitly says that Cultivation is able to tell the future to some extent (indeed, he says that she does it better than he does, implying that he also can, a little bit). I think that Odium is just particularly good at it, and the popular belief that seeing the future is therefore evil evolved from that fact. There could very well be Radiants with some future sight.

Take a cookie for this one. I ran out of upvotes long ago...

 

13 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Unfortunately I suck at WoB finding as I can't enter theoryland

You can enter if you use a proxy from the US. It interferes with commenting here, though.

 

13 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

At this rate maybe once someone like Jasnah arrives they should start charging for entering Urithiru, and see if people finally stop trying to profit off the storming end of the world.

Now we know why the Radiants of Old charged for passage through Urithiru, as we know from the epigraphs in WoR. Somehow the cost in Stormlight has to be brought in again.

 

12 hours ago, maxal said:

I'll get back to reading the comments later, but right now, summer has decided it was back and there is a pool yelling my name 

Bearing the first autumn storm outside right now I get just a little bit envious. Nearly makes me want to skip your posting

 

12 hours ago, maxal said:

The snare has been laid out and poor Adolin has no other choices but to walk right into it.

I think you are underestimating Adolin here. He will have stress, he won't be able to keep his secret from Shallan, Renarin probably already knows. But he won't run blindly into the trap. He might not be brilliant, but he is not stupid either. And as Taravangian said in WoR: You underestimate the average mind.
His reputation of being guileless will also help him, for a while at least - and perhaps Shallan will be helpful, too.

 

11 hours ago, axcellence said:

Also the delayed healing for Adolin suggests nowhere near proto radiancy.

I would call it normal healing rate. Ok, no proto radiancy - but also no indication that something stops him from healing properly. A broken wrist takes how long to heal? About four to six weeks I think, if it is properly treated. And Adolin does a lot, being careful with his broken wrist is not among those things. If the wrist was disturbed after first treatment, it could be that the bones don't heal properly and then it would also hurt after a week.

 

9 hours ago, Darvys said:

And no, he won't give the Honorblade to his nefew just to sooth him, not after being warned of the danger its use represents. Besides Dalinar more than any radiant seems to focus on the importance of oaths, i doubt he'll be confortable with any surgebinder running around unchecked.

I agree. I guess the Honorblade is put away somewhere safe (Little Herdaz, perhaps?). And what is not to be forgotten: The Honorblade uses dangerous amounts of Stormlight, Stormlight that is already a valueable resource. To use the Honorblade at this time would be an unresponsible waste, no matter who got it.

 

8 hours ago, Extesian said:

I haven't read a single post and won't for a while, but here's my crazy speculation.

What's worse than death? Possession. Who is closer to the cognitive realm already? Listeners. Who appeared to be dead? Eshonai. Who would be regarded as a heretic to their people by Nahel bonding? Eshonai.

Eh probably doesn't fit with the other epigraphs, I don't have time to think. But throwing it out there for debunking.

That deserves a reread of the epigraphs. Wait a second.

Quote

I'm certain some will feel threatened by this record. Some few may feel liberated. Most will simply feel that it should not exist. I needed to write it anyway. I know that many women who read this will see it only as further proof that I am the godless heretic everyone claims.

I can point to the moment when I decided for certain this record had to be written. I hung between realms, seeing into Shadesmar - the realm of the spren - and beyond. I thought that I was surely dead. Certainly, some who saw further than I did thought I had fallen. I did not die. I experienced something worse.

That moment nonwithstanding, I can honestly say this book has been brewing in me since my youth. The sum of my experiences has pointed at this moment. This decision.

Nope, Eshonai does not fit. Do Listeners even write books? All we know of is orally handed down songs.
Then women adressed who read it point to Vorin culture, also the term Shadesmar is a human one, isn't it?
Eshonai in her youth was all about exploring, not about writing books.

 

5 hours ago, SLNC said:

It's primarily about revenge, I think. I'm a strong believer, that Ialai is behind the second killing and she somehow knows, that Adolin is behind killing her husband, yet she has no evidence to support it. So what does she do? Kill random lighteyes in the same manner, that Adolin killed Sadeas. She tries to spook him, so that he maybe confesses by himself under the pressure. She may have anticipated, that Dalinar would appoint Adolin as an investigator, too. That woman is a snake, but what makes her so dangerous is her intelligence and capabilities. It would be her style. And her plan works. Adolin is under immense pressure already, she just has to keep it up.

Nice reasoning. Take a cookie - still out of upvotes.

 

3 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Yes, the second murder helps Adolin's case a lot if he can keep his cool and handle things right. You have to be very meticulous to spin all the threads right, and while I love Adolin, I don't think he has the skill or composure for this. I'm hoping Shallan finds out and helps him, as she definetely can handle it.

Shallan finding out Adolin and helping him - yes I could warm up to this idea.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Pattern

[Nef]

22 hours ago, Daishi5 said:

I don't see Laral at all as being a squire, she grew up to be one of the arrogant light eyes that Kaladin hates.  When Kaladin reminds her the way Roshone treated his father and how he as good as killed Tien, she replies that Lirin had spoken bad of Roshone.  

You make valid points but I think you're projecting based upon unconfirmed assumptions. Do we really know if Laral has grown into an arrogant lighteyes? From the little we've read about her in chapter 7 it seemed to me that she had earned the respect of her household. At a stretch, one could assume that she had gained that respect by demonstrating a willingness to protect the people of hearthstone from a position of authority, thus aligning herself to Kaladin's ideals.

Sure she was haughty to Kaladin upon their reunion but he had suddenly appeared out of nowhere, punched her husband and proceeded to take control of her household. And I like to think she was overcompensating after realizing her spurned childhood sweetheart has now returned as dreamy, super-hot warrior dude, inwardly her heart was racing .

Okay, I admit I have a petty desire to see more payoff from Laral realizing that Kaladin has now grown into a better man than she could have ever imagined. In order for this to happen we will need more interaction between Kaladin and Laral, which could easily happen if a situation arises where Kaladin is escorting the people of Hearthstone to safety. Kaladin might have to depend on Laral's familiarity with inner-workings of the Hearthstone populace and Laral may witness Kaladin's inspirational leadership firsthand. This was where my head was at when I first proposed Laral become a squire. The members of Bridge 4 all have varying backgrounds but were common in their acceptance of Kaladin as their leader and they all seem to have ended up as squires.

Not that I necessarily want to see the pairing of Kaladin and Laral. Rather, Kaladin's "ma boi" and I want to see him have the attention of multiple ladies (candidates being Shallan, Syl, Lift, Laral, Jasnah!?... Eshonai!?!?!). The irony would be that Kaladin has exactly the personality to not realize such an embarrassment of riches in feminine affection.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Nef

[Azul]

5 hours ago, SLNC said:

It's primarily about revenge, I think. I'm a strong believer, that Ialai is behind the second killing and she somehow knows, that Adolin is behind killing her husband, yet she has no evidence to support it. So what does she do? Kill random lighteyes in the same manner, that Adolin killed Sadeas. She tries to spook him, so that he maybe confesses by himself under the pressure. She may have anticipated, that Dalinar would appoint Adolin as an investigator, too. That woman is a snake, but what makes her so dangerous is her intelligence and capabilities. It would be her style. And her plan works. Adolin is under immense pressure already, she just has to keep it up.

 

To me this feels like a horrible idea.  Sadeas death would have eaten away at Adolin, I think we can all agree on that.  In time he may have even cracked and confessed.  Now with the new murder he has been giving a focus, something to galvanize this thoughts and actions.  Someone is using his killing of Sadeas as a cover to kill other people and I don't think he will rest til he finds out who.  Adolin isn't stupid and has to know that if he confesses now he will be suspect in this new killing and the actual murderer is much more likely to remain free.  This gives him even more reason to not confess. 

[Elena]

I just reread the chapters and, guys. I LOVE Kaladin beginning to love himself.

Quote

For a short time, it had been nice to just be Kal again. Fortunately, he wasn’t that youth any longer. He was a new person - and for the first time in a long, long while, he was happy with that person.

 *sobbing internally* this is so beautiful

[kari-no-sugata]

12 hours ago, Starla said:

Per this quote in chapter 8, it seems sprenblade is required to operate the oathgate:

"Plus, there wasn’t much of her to go around. Only an active, full Knight Radiant could work the control buildings at the center of each platform, initiating the swap. For now, that meant only Shallan.

Just because a character believes something to be true it doesn't mean it actually is true.

Until we know for certain that they properly tested the Honorblade, I don't think we can know for sure. (They might not even know what it really is...)

On a somewhat related note, given Shallan's critical importance as the only known way to get in and out of Urithiru while Kaladin is away... I'm surprised there weren't more guards with her. Where's her personal guards?

[lastofus]

My two chips on these chapters. 

I sill believe the author of Oathbringer is Shshshshshsh, Dalinar's first wife. I wrote about it in the previous topic (chapters-4-6). There's no way that the author is a Herald. First of all, Heralds knew of a time where both men and women read, worked or fought, but the author only foresaw women reading it in the future. And how a Herald can be heretic, they are the ones that are worshiped but the Vorin Church.

Chapter 7:
I didn't like Laral at all. In my mind, she came in late so she could have a witty reply ready. It felt cheap. I liked how Kal sidesteped it, there's nothing to argue when desolation is here.

Four gender? Nah.. doesn't work for me, it's a fantasy book so why not 6 or 8? or even 7?

I don't know where I got this idea but I thought it was common knowledge that Parshendi are older than humans. Spren were in Roshar before Tavanast, and were "friends" with the Parshendi, then human beings came and nahel bond took form, Parshendi didn't understand it (they never broke and captured spren for transformation) so they assumed that they were betrayed by spren. Before the Galivar's expedition none of them saw any humans and didn't know what they looked like now, but all of them understood what Kaladin was. The way they acted and their dialogues about him showed that. Sadly I don't remember the exact wordings, so maybe I am wrong.

 

Chapter 8:

Loved the city's patterns, Knights have a huge advantage going around the city, they could fly, use patterns or "dance through rooftops", transport or in case of bondsmiths probably just stay in one place for the others to come to them. But normal human beings just walked in confusion. 

That map was a smart move, I hope Shallan took a mental image and will draw it on a paper.

I think the "champion" will attack Kholinar soon and certainly before the opening of its oathgate.

The theory that Dalinar saw some visions from Renarin is really cool. I hope we see more of these things.

 

Chapter 9:
For me, Renarin is completely normal for a Truthwatcher. He "saw" everything from the champion to Sedeas's murder but can't speak of it. It's in their nature to do so.

I liked that Dalinar acknowledged that Highprince Aladar is now the Highprince of Information. Completely different from what he would've done back at the camps.

The second murder can't be Ialai it doesn't sit with me well.. what? I ordered people killed so you find out my husband's murderer? But ghostbloods a different story, it can be a way to control Shallan. Oh and of course, Adolin needs to break to bond, hopefully it won't hurt much.

[lastofus]

2 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

Just because a character believes something to be true it doesn't mean it actually is true.

Until we know for certain that they properly tested the Honorblade, I don't think we can know for sure. (They might not even know what it really is...)

But considering how valuable that blade is... it can make you a radiant without the necessary oaths. And you don't shouldn't use it like a simple "key".

 

2 minutes ago, kari-no-sugata said:

On a somewhat related note, given Shallan's critical importance as the only known way to get in and out of Urithiru while Kaladin is away... I'm surprised there weren't more guards with her. Where's her personal guards?

Didn't she bully people before? being a Radiant with a blade and surviving anything? First with WoR, when Dalinar said she's too important and they to soldiers/scouts that she can survive the fall from Urithiru.

 

[Pattern]

5 minutes ago, lastofus said:

Parshendi didn't understand it (they never broke and captured spren for transformation) so they assumed that they were betrayed by spren.

Capturing is exactly what Parshendi do to assume their forms (compare with the Prologue, where Eshonai sees the fabrial and draws parallels to how Parshendi take their forms).

[Nymix]

5 minutes ago, lastofus said:

Chapter 7:
 

Four gender? Nah.. doesn't work for me, it's a fantasy book so why not 6 or 8? or even 7?

Just gonna address this one by saying four is significant due to Listener perception of genders: Listeners have male, female, malen and femalen (ie; neuter counterparts for those forms they don't use to reproduce.)

[lastofus]

2 minutes ago, Pattern said:

Capturing is exactly what Parshendi do to assume their forms (compare with the Prologue, where Eshonai sees the fabrial and draws parallels to how Parshendi take their forms).

What I meant was that they never created a nahel bond with Spren and always captured them. The fact that spren and humans created those binds was considered a betrayal by the parshendi.

 

3 minutes ago, Nymix said:

Just gonna address this one by saying four is significant due to Listener perception of genders: Listeners have male, female, malen and femalen (ie; neuter counterparts for those forms they don't use to reproduce.)

Yeah I know, I kind of hoped that there could be a completely genderless (having nothing that wasn't necessary) somewhere in there too. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Elena said:

 *sobbing internally* this is so beautiful

Internally? I was reading the chapter on the bus and had tears in my eyes. No shame here.

[+robardin]

7 hours ago, Calderis said:

I agree. His behavior fits perfectly the description of Truthwatchers in the in world WoR. The idea that he's evil has always been ludicrous to me. 

What has he done to show anything but care for his family, striving to find a place for himself, and an unusual level of insight? His fear at literally seeing things that his religion has taught him is evil his whole life? That's totally unreasonable.... /sarcasm 

I don't think Renarin is "evil", simply that there's something Not Quite Right about his Radiancy. (Is that the right term?) It may even be something that's happened to him SINCE becoming a Truthwatcher.

 

[Jaconis]

1 minute ago, robardin said:

I don't think Renarin is "evil", simply that there's something Not Quite Right about his Radiancy. (Is that the right term?) It may even be something that's happened to him SINCE becoming a Truthwatcher.

 

Is that just a gut feeling or do you have evidence to support that? Either is fine, just wondering if there's something I missed or just have a different feeling from reading his scenes. 

I agree that something seems off about him, but my personal opinion is that this "off-ness" is explained by a combination of the nature of Truthwatchers and Renarin's nature as a person. 

[Nef]

Yeah, I'm reluctant to give Renarin a hard time for acting weird. I think his behavior is understandable in the light of the fact that he can see a dark future and is freaking out because he's not sure what to do.

Heck, I use to freak out when I could see my dark future when exam time was approaching at the end of each semester.