[OB] Oathbringer chapters 7-9

[+Spicker]

5 hours ago, Pattern said:

I don't understand the fuss people make about strata in rocks. Roshar is shaped and formed by crem desposits from Highstorms. The whole continent shifts slowly westwards, since material is eroded in the east and deposited in the west. The crem layers slowly solidify to rock with natural strata. 
Mountains have to be folded up (so Roshar cannot be totally tectonically inert) which would result in curved strata.

I'm a geologist, so it wouldn't be the first time I fussed more over rock or strata than a regular person would. 

I do have a couple points to defend myself though:

1. I wasn't really ascribing unwarranted importance to the rock layers. I was mostly geeking out about the possible rock type of the building. I understand that Brandon is a writer, not a geologist, so it is unlikely that there is much meaning behind the strata than what he specifically states in the book. BUT it sure is fun to speculate. It's my dream to be a planetary geologist and study the history of other worlds. Due to technological limits, I will never get to travel to a distant planet. I can, however, live my dream through reading. That is where I am coming from when analysing the rocks.
Also, I don't know if your simplified explanation of how curved strata is formed is supposed to demonstrate why we don't need to fuss over the rocks, but it did the opposite for me. Your bringing up crem deposits just made my mind jump to thinking about what a deposit core sample would look like on the shattered plains. How far back could we go? Can we match up crem layers to specific storms, and use the thickness of the layer to estimate storm strength? Can we compare more current layers with layers as far back as the recreance? the last desolation?
See, there I go fussing about things that will likely never come up in the book. I just can't help it. 

2. Although I don't really think that the descriptions of rock striations hold any major secrets to the series, I do think they have some importance, or they wouldn't have been described as they were in the book. The Alethi people build their palace's out of rock, but none have been described as the rock in Urithiru. I agree that crem deposits would be very common in all of Roshar. So if that is all there is to it, why is the rock of Urithiru so notably different than other rock? Brandon could have just included the rock description to add to the strangeness of Urithiru, or to highlight Shallan's ability to pick up on patterns. He could also still use it when we find out more about how Urithiru was formed. It could come up as important later in a way we can't predict. Sanderson could do more with the rock striations, or he could just leave it there. Is this something that could be more important, or are we reading too much into it? Naturally, with all the theories going around, most of it will be reading too much into things. That doesn't we can't still speculate. Additionally, I don't think it is unreasonable to include the descriptions of the rock when speculating about the formation of Urithiru (which may turn out not to matter much after all).

[flying_shadow]

1 minute ago, Spicker said:

I'm a geologist, so it wouldn't be the first time I fussed more over rock or strata than a regular person would

Eh, it was fascinating. I like reading about stuff I don't know.

[Psmith9882]

Quote

I did not die.

I experienced something worse.

—From Oathbringer, preface

 

I'm starting to wonder if Szeth might be the author. That theory might be a bit out there, but on my third read through of these chapters has me wondering. 

[Pattern]

1 hour ago, Spicker said:

Also, I don't know if your simplified explanation of how curved strata is formed is supposed to demonstrate why we don't need to fuss over the rocks, but it did the opposite for me.

What I wanted to say is that striated rocks on Roshar should be quite usual opposed to a rare feature. I am the last to suggest not to speculate about minute details. If those descriptions help you form a theory on how Urithiru was built and from where on Roshar different layers originated, go for it!

I interpreted the descriptions of Urithiru that it was not built from separate rocks but somehow carved into or grown from the mountain itself. A wall consisting of bricks or rocks would not display grand patterns of swirling or other continuous strata but would be a mix of many patterns, or even oriented so that the surface consists of a monochromatic layer.

Of all the description of layers shows that Urithiru has not been soulcast, since soulcast rock is bland and only grey.

1 hour ago, Spicker said:

Your bringing up crem deposits just made my mind jump to thinking about what a deposit core sample would look like on the shattered plains.

If I recall correctly, the rock of the chasms has been also described as layered strata of different colours. I have to look that up later, though. My time for browsing the forum is up now, unfortunately.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Pattern

[+Spicker]

1 minute ago, Pattern said:

I interpreted the descriptions of Urithiru that it was not built from separate rocks but somehow carved into or grown from the mountain itself.

This is exactly what I speculated, that it was somehow carved and formed/grown from existing rock. It does not seem like soulcast rock, which has been brought up by others before. Also, even for metamorphic rock, some of the patterns (like the corkscrew striations) seem like more than a natural phenomenon. If I were to guess, the strange patterns in the rock were somehow created during the process of creating Urithiru. It would be interesting to compare the rock of the building with the rock of the mountain and see if the pattern was there too. Of course we probably won't get to see that, but it is fun to think about.

[Daishi5]

1 hour ago, Pammie said:

Yeah, I thought that this was strange too. Maybe all towns in Alethkar do? This seems really ineffective, wouldn't it make more sense for them to have to go through an intermediary first? 

Also, as nice as it was for Kaladin to visit his hometown and resolve some things, I've been wondering what this little trip to Hearthstone adds to the plot. I'm betting that lil' Oroden will become important later, possibly in the second-half of the series, after the time-skip. But it would also make a lot of sense for Laral to be connected to the queen and somehow be drawn in the issues in Kholinar. Maybe she'll tip Aesudan off that Dalinar is refounding the Knights Radiant? And the queen will use this somehow to try and wrest power away from the Kholins? Also, her presence will also be a constant reminder for Kaladin about his perception of his past and maybe force some character growth.

There has to be some importance to this visit at Hearthstone, and it'd be weird if all towns in Alethkar have a spanreed directly to the queen, but I don't know how it fits together?

Roshone was banished from Kholinar when he used his position as an advisor to the king to his own advantage.  He is not just some no name lighteyes, he is a lighteyes that was banished and fell from great heights.  

[Pammie]

1 minute ago, Daishi5 said:

Roshone was banished from Kholinar when he used his position as an advisor to the king to his own advantage.  He is not just some no name lighteyes, he is a lighteyes that was banished and fell from great heights.

Hmmm, you're right, the King used to consider Roshone a friend, which would explain why he would have a spanreed directly to the queen. That's kind of disappointing. Good catch though!

[WhiteLeeopard]

Honestly, I think too much thought is been given to the phrase "a spanreed to the queen regent". Its probably synonimous to "a spanreed to the capital", which actually seems very reasonable. You have to keep in mind in old times, the king, the throne and the capital were often seen as the same thing. Top picks for where to have a spanreed is the local capital (Sadeas stronghold), country capital (Kholinar) and relay station. We see two of those, and maybe they have the third as well. 

[Jaconis]

5 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Honestly, I think too much thought is been given to the phrase "a spanreed to the queen regent". Its probably synonimous to "a spanreed to the capital", which actually seems very reasonable. You have to keep in mind in old times, the king, the throne and the capital were often seen as the same thing. Top picks for where to have a spanreed is the local capital (Sadeas stronghold), country capital (Kholinar) and relay station. We see two of those, and maybe they have the third as well. 

I agree. This seems like one of those lines that would be ignored by most of the readership, even those who post here, if we were reading this as part of the whole book. 

Talking about the spanreeds made me remember something else that I haven't seen posted here yet. I am mightily happy that we didn't go a significant portion of the book with Kaladin and others having no Stormlight. I just hate when the main characters finally start to gain some power, or come to terms with their power, and suddenly their power source is gone. 

I understand the need: you need conflict, and for your characters to have a sense of danger. You achieve neither if they have significant power advantages over their enemies, so you need to either depower your protagonists (right after you spent chapters or books making them awesome) or empower your antagonists.

It should have been obvious given the end of WoR, but I'm glad Brandon went with the latter approach. We were with them to see Kaladin and Shallan and everyone slog through so many of their issues and become awesome, I would have hated the payoff for that was for them to not be able to use their awesomeness. 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Jaconis

[Emerald101]

This WoB has Brandon saying that he dropped some very blatant hints about Renarin, and that he directed @Argent to some specific pages. Would you mind showing us what he was referring to? I'm fairly confident we've considered them, but having the perspective of them as Brandon "dropping a hint" might be helpful.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Emerald101
Whoops, forgot to link the WoB

[Calderis]

7 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

This WoB has Brandon saying that he dropped some very blatant hints about Renarin, and that he directed @Argent to some specific pages. Would you mind showing us what he was referring to? I'm fairly confident we've considered them, but having the perspective of them as Brandon "dropping a hint" might be helpful.

Brandon's idea of "Blatant" here is... Biased. 

And good luck. Argent enjoys his special secret. Argent's a mean girl. 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Calderis

[Emerald101]

A guy can hope, right? I don't expect Argent to just drop the secret on here, but he apparently directed the questioner to the correct place.

[Steeldancer]

2 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

A guy can hope, right? I don't expect Argent to just drop the secret on here, but he apparently directed the questioner to the correct place.

I've looked everywhere in the way of kings. It's anything but blatant. Everything about renarin is hidden. 

[Zmann966]

7 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

I've looked everywhere in the way of kings. It's anything but blatant. Everything about renarin is hidden. 

EVERYWHERE?

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Zmann966

[Steeldancer]

Just now, Zmann966 said:

EVERYWHERE?

 

Page by freaking page. It took forever. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

Z raises a good point, did you rip the book out and check the binding?

[Steeldancer]

Just now, WhiteLeeopard said:

Z raises a good point, did you rip the book out and check the binding?

No because I think destroying books is heinous and evil. 

[WhiteLeeopard]

Just now, Steeldancer said:

No because I think destroying books is heinous and evil. 

I agree. Sadly it means only evil incarnate can really look everywhere in a book for clues.

[Musica]

On 9/12/2017 at 7:18 PM, ProfessorMLyon said:

My own personal theory is that the author is Shhshhh, and that she is going to bring all sorts of confusion and discord to Kholinar family when she comes out and says "Surpise! I'm not dead." Think of how awkward it would be for Navani. 

Of course she isn't dead! Dalinar's boon was to save her, and his curse was that he forgot her completely while everyone else were made to think she is dead and now see her as some other unrelated woman! 

In other words- she is alive, but might as well be dead! (At least dead for everyone who ever knew her).

She is actually hiding as one of Dalinar's scribes, unable to tell peole who she really is. 

 

*It's the crack talking*

LOL

[flying_shadow]

1 hour ago, Psmith9882 said:

I'm starting to wonder if Szeth might be the author. That theory might be a bit out there, but on my third read through of these chapters has me wondering. 

I also think this could be possible. I don't really see any contradictions in the epigraphs, but it does seem a bit unlikely.

[Argent]

31 minutes ago, Emerald101 said:

A guy can hope, right? I don't expect Argent to just drop the secret on here, but he apparently directed the questioner to the correct place.

I had Brandon's explicit affirmation that I could share the secret. I think Oathbringer will make my knowledge on this commonplace though, so there is no need to lynch me.

But it's true, I do enjoy my secrets

[flying_shadow]

1 minute ago, Argent said:

I had Brandon's explicit affirmation that I could share the secret.

So share it pleeeeeease! I'll give you cookies!..

[Emerald101]

Alright then.

 

[+robardin]

3 minutes ago, Argent said:

I had Brandon's explicit affirmation that I could share the secret. I think Oathbringer will make my knowledge on this commonplace though, so there is no need to lynch me.

But it's true, I do enjoy my secrets

How about this: just confirm the "clues" are in "Words of Radiance" alone (not in "Way of Kings")

[Calderis]

Just now, robardin said:

How about this: just confirm the "clues" are in "Words of Radiance" alone (not in "Way of Kings")

You've got it backwards. The clue is specifically in tWoK.