What spike/power is allowing Marsh to walk around unnoticed?

[Could Be Fire]

In the final epilogue of Lost Metal, Steris asks Marsh how he's able to walk around without drawing attention. He says emotional allomancy but Wax explicitly calls out that as weird and that there's something else going on.

What do you guys think it could be? I thought of few options but it's an interesting magical question with cool implications. It also might provide a clue to what spikes Marsh has, which ppl have been trying to work out for years (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.)

 

• The simple answer is that it is emotional allomancy, especially since it's the only possible ability for being unnoticed that we know for certain that Marsh has. Wax doesn't think it's this, but Wax doesn't know emotional allomancy to same level that he understands steel. Wax comments that Marsh's gun stunt is even more impressive than it looks in in a deeply subtle mechanistic way that is only clear if you really know the metals. Maybe Marsh is able to be subtle enough to sooth specifically people's curiosity toward him and nothing else? Or some other soothing/rioting trick on the level of splitting steel lines to push on the same object at multiple points.
  • However, this sort of contradicts what we see in Alloy of Law. Marsh's "don't notice me power" is clearly active at that point, Marasi notes that he's being ignored by the Constables even though she can see him. But his use of emotional allomancy is very textually clearly heavy-handed, and Marash explicitly says that he struggles to be subtle and doesn't have the talent Breeze does
  • Marsh could also just be lying about his ability. Emotional allomancy is definitely something that works better if people think you're bad at it. That reads to me as more of a Kell move than a Marsh one, but it's possible.
• He's moving around very quickly with either F-Steel (storing speed) or A-Cadmium ( speed bubble like Wayne). Bleeder shows that steelrunners can run fast enough to be almost invisible, the gusts of wind and force of movement would be noticeable, but it would hide the fact that it's Ironeyes who is running around. Also makes sense for Ruin to give Marsh an F-Steel spike, it's a useful power on it's own and compounding comes automatically since inquisitors already have A-Steel. However, speed doesn't match what Marasi see's, with the constable's just ignoring him.
  • A-Cadmium is probably a no, since even if Ruin as the shard knew it existed, the Final Empire didn't have the tech level to mine/produce it.
• F-Duralumin (storing connection) is a wild idea, but it seems like it might work for making some unnoticeable/unremarkable. It is one of two spiritual metals the Final Empire had the tech to produce, but, per the hemalurgy chart, you'd need a Cadmium spike to steal it. Which has the same "Ruin is unable to find cadmium issue" that speed bubbles have.
  • However, if Ruin was able to magic up or find an ancient stash or produce a small amount of one of the unknown metals like Cadmium, it would make the most sense to use it in a Spike. Also compounding is built in like with F-Steel since we know Marsh has A-Duralumin.
• Something with an unsealed metalmind? Marsh wasn't running around unnoticed pre-Catacendre. He hasn't been adding spikes/powers after Ruin left but that doesn't mean he isn't making use of the Southerener's tech, especially since we know others of the OG squad had a part in developing it. Maybe a Duralumin medallion instead of Spike? If this is the answer Wax commenting on it may be a hint to some of the abilities we'll see from the Ghostbloods/Kelsier moving forward in Stormlight Archive and Era 3.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Could Be Fire

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Could Be Fire said:

• F-Duralumin (storing connection) is a wild idea, but it seems like it might work for making some unnoticeable/unremarkable. It is one of two spiritual metals the Final Empire had the tech to produce, but, per the hemalurgy chart, you'd need a Cadmium spike to steal it. Which has the same "Ruin is unable to find cadmium issue" that speed bubbles have.

You can steal any ability using Atium spikes.

[alder24]

I think it's not allomancy because of how bad he was with it in AoL,and not F-steel as that would just require ridiculous amounts of it, and still be noticeable. F-duralumin is the most likely option. It's how storing connections was described to look like "reducing other people's awareness of and friendship with the Connector''. But it's the bendalloy spike that steals spiritual feruchemy, not cadmium, although you can use Atium as well. He could also get medallion from Kelsier, as they met frequently:

Spoiler

Questioner

How often do Kelsier and Marsh talk? Are the conversations more friendly or more confrontational?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on the moment. But speaking should be seen as regular if not frequent.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022)

 

[lacrossedeamon]

Not super efficient and I’m not certain it works given how Hemalurgy is supposedly limited but he could reuse spike from members of the Set etc he’s killed.

[Weaver of Lies]

I personally think it is storing connection.

[Guest]

I think he Compounds Identity so extremely hard that the world see's him as his soul see's itself, so he appears like a normal Scadrian wandering around, but deformed because parts of his soul are actually parts of other people. The emotional Allomancy is then used to make people not ask questions about it.

[Argenti]

10 hours ago, LabRat said:

I think he Compounds Identity so extremely hard that the world see's him as his soul see's itself, so he appears like a normal Scadrian wandering around, but deformed because parts of his soul are actually parts of other people. The emotional Allomancy is then used to make people not ask questions about it.

That's not how identity works, in Ferachemy, it most simply acts as a "Lock" so others can't use your power. It's possible that using identity compounding he might get a stronger sense of will, but that's pure speculation on my part. It's probably some mix of emotional Allomancy and connection storing and maybe a coppercloud? 

[Guest]

On 5/16/2023 at 10:13 AM, Argenti said:

That's not how identity works, in Ferachemy, it most simply acts as a "Lock" so others can't use your power. It's possible that using identity compounding he might get a stronger sense of will, but that's pure speculation on my part. It's probably some mix of emotional Allomancy and connection storing and maybe a coppercloud? 

That's what we've been toldIdentity is used for in regards to sharing Metalminds, but we've never seen someone Compound Identity.

In fact, we've never even seen someone utilizing Identity in any way, including the creation of Unlocked Metalminds, so we have no idea what that process looks/feels like when it's being performed, or even if that is 100% of the process for creating universal Metalminds.

[ftl]

I think it's something to do with spiritual feruchemy quadrant. That's the most unexplored section of the metallic arts, and Brandon's been deliberately cagey about it. And some of the stuff in there - manipulating Identity and Connection, specifically - could definitely be related to being noticed/unnoticed.

I definitely don't have a specific mechanism in mind, but something with those two seems very plausible to me.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 2/7/2023 at 1:38 PM, Could Be Fire said:

In the final epilogue of Lost Metal, Steris asks Marsh how he's able to walk around without drawing attention. He says emotional allomancy but Wax explicitly calls out that as weird and that there's something else going on.

What do you guys think it could be? I thought of few options but it's an interesting magical question with cool implications. It also might provide a clue to what spikes Marsh has, which ppl have been trying to work out for years (1, 2, 3, 4, etc.)

 

• The simple answer is that it is emotional allomancy, especially since it's the only possible ability for being unnoticed that we know for certain that Marsh has. Wax doesn't think it's this, but Wax doesn't know emotional allomancy to same level that he understands steel. Wax comments that Marsh's gun stunt is even more impressive than it looks in in a deeply subtle mechanistic way that is only clear if you really know the metals. Maybe Marsh is able to be subtle enough to sooth specifically people's curiosity toward him and nothing else? Or some other soothing/rioting trick on the level of splitting steel lines to push on the same object at multiple points.
  • However, this sort of contradicts what we see in Alloy of Law. Marsh's "don't notice me power" is clearly active at that point, Marasi notes that he's being ignored by the Constables even though she can see him. But his use of emotional allomancy is very textually clearly heavy-handed, and Marash explicitly says that he struggles to be subtle and doesn't have the talent Breeze does
  • Marsh could also just be lying about his ability. Emotional allomancy is definitely something that works better if people think you're bad at it. That reads to me as more of a Kell move than a Marsh one, but it's possible.
• He's moving around very quickly with either F-Steel (storing speed) or A-Cadmium ( speed bubble like Wayne). Bleeder shows that steelrunners can run fast enough to be almost invisible, the gusts of wind and force of movement would be noticeable, but it would hide the fact that it's Ironeyes who is running around. Also makes sense for Ruin to give Marsh an F-Steel spike, it's a useful power on it's own and compounding comes automatically since inquisitors already have A-Steel. However, speed doesn't match what Marasi see's, with the constable's just ignoring him.
  • A-Cadmium is probably a no, since even if Ruin as the shard knew it existed, the Final Empire didn't have the tech level to mine/produce it.
• F-Duralumin (storing connection) is a wild idea, but it seems like it might work for making some unnoticeable/unremarkable. It is one of two spiritual metals the Final Empire had the tech to produce, but, per the hemalurgy chart, you'd need a Cadmium spike to steal it. Which has the same "Ruin is unable to find cadmium issue" that speed bubbles have.
  • However, if Ruin was able to magic up or find an ancient stash or produce a small amount of one of the unknown metals like Cadmium, it would make the most sense to use it in a Spike. Also compounding is built in like with F-Steel since we know Marsh has A-Duralumin.
• Something with an unsealed metalmind? Marsh wasn't running around unnoticed pre-Catacendre. He hasn't been adding spikes/powers after Ruin left but that doesn't mean he isn't making use of the Southerener's tech, especially since we know others of the OG squad had a part in developing it. Maybe a Duralumin medallion instead of Spike? If this is the answer Wax commenting on it may be a hint to some of the abilities we'll see from the Ghostbloods/Kelsier moving forward in Stormlight Archive and Era 3.

It also could have something to do with Gold Hemalurgy - it's always seemed off. The rest of the Hemalurgic -> Feruchemical metals can get the hybrids related to it's quadrant, so why a spike that can only have 4 instead of 5/6 options, and that are duplicates (unlike the H-A, which are all 4 uniques)? I suspect it's an in-world misconception, much like Atium spikes taking Higher/temporal metals rather than any ability. I really don't see Gold hemalurgy only stealing those 4 with no other benefits.

(Preface, little known fact is that a WoB says that a single spike can steal multiple powers [with a single pass IIRC], though it's unknown in-world). Perhaps it has a bind point that can take 3/4, and the others only have points that can 3/4 if none are hybrid, but with the number of bindpoints in the Heart that seems unlikely as well.

[Aetherbound]

Maybe a duralumin spike to steal identity from some random scadrian.

[Weaver of Lies]

I’m just going off of memory, but isn’t duralumin supposedly supposed to steal destiny?

[alder24]

7 hours ago, Lightweaver2 said:

I’m just going off of memory, but isn’t duralumin supposedly supposed to steal destiny?

That's chromium. Duralumin steals both Connection and Identity. nicrosil steals investiture, and aluminum removes all powers.

8 hours ago, Aetherbound said:

Maybe a duralumin spike to steal identity from some random scadrian.

Identity likely doesn't work like that. For all we know right now it's more like an encryption key that allows you to access your investiture and prevents others from using it. Having a different identity doesn't turn you into a different person - your spirit is still yours, you have Connections, memories, appearance etc. 

[Argenti]

On 6/18/2023 at 6:42 AM, alder24 said:

Identity likely doesn't work like that. For all we know right now it's more like an encryption key that allows you to access your investiture and prevents others from using it. Having a different identity doesn't turn you into a different person - your spirit is still yours, you have Connections, memories, appearance etc. 

It's basically magic thumb prints.

I'm pretty sure Identity also has a part in physical realm changes, like singer transformations and most types of healing.