Popular Post Shardbearer Posted June 17, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 17, 2013 I believe that the priests of the Heirocracy really were having visions. In fact, I think they were having the same visions Dalinar is having and they were following Honor's command to "unite them" when they were trying to rule all of Roshar. Then the sunmaker, under odium's influence, came and messed everything up, fabricating false evidence that the prophecies were lies. 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 (edited) I agree. The warmongering attitude of the Alethi was helping Odium achieve his plans, and I believe the ardents were warned about this through the prophecies. They tried to lessen the highprinces' bloodlust by imposing religious discipline, but we know how that strategy rarely works even in real life. Fear of God takes a back seat when there is fear of military conquest and execution. Edited June 18, 2013 by skaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted June 18, 2013 Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 yup, I also agree. This is kinda the idea behind the theory I espouse - Sunmaker Changed Vorinism. I also think that "Voidbringing = prophecy" is a huge lie meant to blind the Alethi people to the guidance of the Almighty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted June 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2013 yup, I also agree. This is kinda the idea behind the theory I espouse - Sunmaker Changed Vorinism. I also think that "Voidbringing = prophecy" is a huge lie meant to blind the Alethi people to the guidance of the Almighty. Ok, I've read that thread, but I don't remember anyone explicitly stating that they thought the prophecies were true, though it certainly is implied in a few of the posts there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 I would like to propose an extension to this idea - the people who recieved the original visions founded Vorinism. We have reason to believe that the visions are not particular on the vocation of the people they choose (but I think require that the person live honorably). From WoK Ch 66: "That chanting, that singing, those rasping voices" - Kaktach 1173, 16 seconds pre-death. A middle aged potter. Reported seeing strange dreams during highstorms during the last two years. If several people, all of whom experience these visions, were to get together and found a system of belief based on the ideas presented therein, it very well might have grown into Vorinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elementalist Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 If several people, all of whom experience these visions, were to get together and found a system of belief based on the ideas presented therein, it very well might have grown into Vorinism. I think it's probably more likely that Vorinism is just the result of stories about the Heralds and Honor changing over 4,500 years. It hasn't been so long that those things would be completely forgotten and would need visions to remind people about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 There are some things about this that might be a little awkward. I would like to propose an extension to this idea - the people who recieved the original visions founded Vorinism. We have reason to believe that the visions are not particular on the vocation of the people they choose (but I think require that the person live honorably). From WoK Ch 66: If several people, all of whom experience these visions, were to get together and found a system of belief based on the ideas presented therein, it very well might have grown into Vorinism. If you believe these visions, then you know that the Almighty (your proposed god) is dead. It would be somewhat demoralizing. In addition, Vorinism reviles the Knights and these visions want them restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted December 21, 2013 Report Share Posted December 21, 2013 I theorized a while back that Vorinism was likely established by the Heralds, or at least based on the teachings of the Heralds a very long time ago. I also theorized that the Sunmaker could very well have been a Herald, or been guided by a Herald. All religions change over time to some degree, and if those changes were not deemed acceptable by certain undying beings, they could oppose those changes. If those undying beings were also going insane, they may have felt the need to oppose those changes regardless of whether they would have been beneficial or not. I don't necessarily buy into the idea that Odium has felt his intervention has ever been a necessity in creating discord amongst humanity. We do that well enough on our own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rererak Posted April 21, 2014 Report Share Posted April 21, 2014 There are some things about this that might be a little awkward. If you believe these visions, then you know that the Almighty (your proposed god) is dead. It would be somewhat demoralizing. In addition, Vorinism reviles the Knights and these visions want them restored. They may not have seen that part. Even Dalinar hadn't for a long time and I suspect he only saw it because the Stormfather chose that incident to see it. Maybe a few of them saw that, but maybe they also saw other visions. Dalinar was seeing largely repeats, but a few new ones, in WoR so that doesn't mean he saw all of them... just ones that were supposed to further the cause the Stormfather (and Honor) had imposed on him. Also, have we explored back into what Pai said in the interlude of Lahn? If the visions were so wrong, why couldn't we... ah heck hold on let me grab the quote... "Why don't we hear from Him, Lahn? The Heralds said we defeat the Voidbringers, that Aharietiam was the great victory for mankind. But shouldn't He have sent them to speak with us, to counsel us? Why didn't they come during the Hierocracy and denounce us? If what the Church had been doing was so evil, where was the word of the Almighty against it?" I wonder if she saw the future... maybe even saw that Honor was dead. I mean we know the reason why the Heralds and the Almighty didn't interfere, but I think she's right that the Hierocracy wasn't evil. Also, if seeing the future was wrong then what of Renarin's ability...? I suspect visions fall more in Cultivation's category, though, as Honor states that isn't where his skill lies... so there's that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeMarshall Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just found this theory. Interesting thought, because this actually could definitely be true. I mean, those visions were basically recorded messages that found Dalinar. They might have found other people. In fact, over the years, it is likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just found this theory. Interesting thought, because this actually could definitely be true. I mean, those visions were basically recorded messages that found Dalinar. They might have found other people. In fact, over the years, it is likely. While I can't remember the specific quote off the top of my head (and I'm not going to find it...sorry) we actually get a in book reference to someone else having the visions...in current time...letting us know that Dalinar IS not the only person recieving them...I've always pondered the significance of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ninja Yodeler Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) While I can't remember the specific quote off the top of my head (and I'm not going to find it...sorry) we actually get a in book reference to someone else having the visions...in current time...letting us know that Dalinar IS not the only person recieving them...I've always pondered the significance of this...I just read a list of death rattles. Somewhere in there is one about a woman who claimed to have suffered from visions for 2 years prior to her death. I'll try to find it. Of course I just read through every one again and now I cant find it. Edited February 3, 2016 by The Ninja Yodeler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted February 3, 2016 Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 While I do suspect that the Hierocracy had visions, I posted a theory that it was not because of the Stormfather, but because they were Truthwatchers. I is a shaky theory even I don't fully believe, but could point towards some... interesting developments in Renarin's story. There is a link on my Sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted February 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2016 I started this theory before WoR came out, so didn't know yet about Renarin's Truthwatching. I'm still espousing this theory in it's basic form, but maybe not that they were having the same visions as Dalinar. Maybe so. I'm looking forward to finding out more about what really happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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