Terisen Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 So something has been bugging me about the things that the Rosharan people swear by, specifically about the Heralds. They seem oddly specific in wrong ways. We have the following examples: Kelek’s breath Ash’s eyes Ishar’s soul Nalan’s hand There’s a couple others (“Chana knows”, “Chana help”, “Pailiah knew”), but those don’t have the problem below. We see that the curse basically follows the pattern of Herald’s name followed by one of the body foci listed in the Ars Arcanum. The strange thing is, the foci doesn’t line up with the Herald that it is associated with. Kelek’s focus was nails (hand). But here, the hand is associated to Nalan. Same thing for Ash. It should be blood, but instead we get the eyes. Really, what I would expect to see is something like the following: Kelek’s hand Ash’s blood Ishar’s flesh (yeah, that’s a tad strange, I admit) Nalan’s breath I’ve thought about this and couldn’t come up with any discernable pattern for the changes. Tried offsets, rotations of the chart of the Radiant orders, etc. Couldn’t come up with anything. Anybody else have any ideas? I’m fairly certain there’s a reason for this in the history of Roshar and it’s possible we don’t know enough yet. Or that I’m over thinking this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I suppose Ash and the Lightweavers had very pretty eyes as I'm under the impression Ash's eyes is used in the meaning of something being beautiful. May be some light red that looks pinkish. Nalan represents justice; his hand serves/brings justice. It makes sense to me at me least. Ishar's soul goes well with his attributes, I think. His soul was pure as he is pious. It probably also has to do with the meaning of the phrase, though I'm not sure what it is. Unless it's some clever trick to foreshadow he's originally from Nalthis before he became a Herald, I'd say Kalak didn't brush his teeth. He killed Voidbringers with both his Blade and breath. Or Breath. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyht Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Personally, I don't think the two things are directly related. Swearing would have been the result of the way society viewed the Heralds, distorted by 4000 years. Whereas the body foci is the result of scholarly determination. I imagine the swearing could be in reference to just about anything dealing with the Herald. They most often seem to have reference to their divine attributes or title. But some of them are quite confusing, no doubt. What is up with Vedel's golden keys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Spifflewicket Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 I think I'm just going to hold out for "Taln's Loincloth!" 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terisen Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Personally, I don't think the two things are directly related. Swearing would have been the result of the way society viewed the Heralds, distorted by 4000 years. Whereas the body foci is the result of scholarly determination. I imagine the swearing could be in reference to just about anything dealing with the Herald. They most often seem to have reference to their divine attributes or title. But some of them are quite confusing, no doubt. What is up with Vedel's golden keys? Well, I agree that it's been distorted. But I find it odd that's the part they're referring to (eyes, soul, etc) are also body foci (I do enjoy being able to use the word "foci" here ). I'm also interested in Vedel's golden keys. Actually, when I was first putting this together, I read it as "Vedeledev's golden eyes" and was going to include it. Glad I double checked to save myself embarrassment! It seems oddly specific. Wonder what she could have possibly opened with those keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Spifflewicket Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 I always suspected that Vedeledev's Golden Keys unlocked The locked Oathgates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelek's Breath Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Just a suggestion, but maybe this should be in the WoR forum, since I think some of those expressions are found only in that book. To add, there are some more weird expressions in the WoK and WoR that show there is something more going on. For example: "Talenelat Elin, bearer of all agonies" "Kelek knows" "Ishi, Herald of Luck, be praised" WoR spoliers "Talat's hand""Pali's mind""What in Kelek's tongue"Those are 3 more curses, plus"Battah send that girl some sense..." To me, they show that ther was some knowledge in the past of what the Herals's could do, but all that has survived is the curses/expressions. Most curious for me is the one that names Taln as the bearer of all agonies. Edited July 12, 2014 by Kelek's Breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostlander Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 (edited) I suppose Ash and the Lightweavers had very pretty eyes as I'm under the impression Ash's eyes is used in the meaning of something being beautiful. May be some light red that looks pinkish. Nalan represents justice; his hand serves/brings justice. It makes sense to me at me least. Ishar's soul goes well with his attributes, I think. His soul was pure as he is pious. It probably also has to do with the meaning of the phrase, though I'm not sure what it is. Unless it's some clever trick to foreshadow he's originally from Nalthis before he became a Herald, I'd say Kalak didn't brush his teeth. He killed Voidbringers with both his Blade and breath. Or Breath. I agree with these explanations for Ash, Nalan, and Ishar's quotes. Chana is invoked when there is mothering involved. Both quotes in WoR: About or by Navani: The mother axehound had finally emerged. Shallan was apparently no longer an outsider, but one of Navani’s clutch— and Chana help the man or woman who stood between Navani and one of her own. On Jasnah: Chana knows, I wondered sometimes how I raised that child without strangling her. By age six, she was pointing out my logical fallacies as I tried to get her to go to bed on time. The thing that is most striking to me is how often Kelek is mentioned, particularly given how little sense the phrases seem to make. One thing that seems to tie them together is confusion, truth, or disbelief. For example, Adolin: “What in Kelek’s tongue is going on out here? I can’t get a straight answer from anyone.” Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 1030). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. And Zahel and Teft: Zahel stepped up, then slammed the Blade into the sandy ground in front of them. He took his hand off the hilt and waved. “All right. Try it out.” They stared at it. “Kelek’s breath,” Teft finally said. “You are serious, aren’t you?” Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 501). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. Kelek-related curses seem to show up with much more regularity than the others: 13 in WoK and 11 in WoR. I suspect that this is an indication that Kalak will turn out to be very important in the series. Partly because his PoV opens the series, and because Sanderson seems to keep reminding (perhaps more general readers) of his existence without giving too much away at this point. Also, that's a funny observation about Nalthis, given the breath connection and also the plot angle with Susebron's tongue. eta: more spoiler tags Edited July 13, 2014 by Frostlander 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Navani seems to have a preference for Chana's name. May be it depends on where one grew up. Kelek related swearing comes up more often because Teft uses Kelek's name when he curse and he does it often. Not that he's the only character to say Kelek-related swearing, but most of Teft's swearing involves Kelek. Also, that's a funny observation about Nalthis, given the breath connection and also the plot angle with Susebron's tongue. Aha! More and more proof Kelek is related to Nalthis! May be the missing Honorblade is actually a sentient awakened object and walked away on its own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11thorderknight Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I think I'm just going to hold out for "Taln's Loincloth!" Jezerezeh's b@!!s, man, that's just disrespectful! :-) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 I was hoping in book 3 somebody would be like "NALAN'S HOLY BALLS" while stood next to him, then he gives the guy a 'Flat emotionless stare~~~ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I was hoping in book 3 somebody would be like "NALAN'S HOLY BALLS" while stood next to him, then he gives the guy a 'Flat emotionless stare~~~ ...Does Nalan have other kinds of stares? To the OP: Remember that this is supposed to be profanity. Maybe the lack of correlation is intentional? Perhaps Kelek's Hand is actually holy, and Nalan's Breath is. Would it be a touch of blasphemy, just enough to be profanity, to call out, "Kelek's Breath!"? Maybe the almost-but-not-quite correlation IS why it's a swear-word. In America, at least, most of the religious swear-words are blasphemous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 22, 2015 Report Share Posted June 22, 2015 Still want to see those 17th shard guys at the purelake going "by the Survivor's" scars" or something and confusing people :3 The etymology of curses has kind of become a favorite cosmere topic over the years huh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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