Anniversary Game 8 / AN11: Back to Beginnings

[Mauve Crocodile]

26 minutes ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

GET

YOUR

OWN

SALMON

HANDS

OFF

MY

SALMON

you are safe... for now... my fridge still has some salmon in it

Quote

r u even paid bro

where is my sarcastic commentary i didn't get any neither

sir i would like to file a complaint

if Fifth is paid to provide sarcastic commentary but Fifth has not in fact been paid, that clears it right up

clearly, Fifth is on strike

smh don't you respect the right to strike

Edited January 5, 2022 by Mauve Crocodile

[Salmon Meerkat]

21 minutes ago, Mauve Crocodile said:

if Fifth is paid to provide sarcastic commentary but Fifth has not in fact been paid, that clears it right up

clearly, Fifth is on strike

smh don't you respect the right to strike

if he is on strike this mean el is not paying him

or possibly wilson

in which case the only ethical course of action is to call for a revolution

against the tyranny of el-wilson

in order to ensure comrade Fifth is paid well

so he may provide his sarcastic commentary to everyone

ANIMALS OF

TYRIAN FALLS

UNITE!!!!!!!

WE HAVE BUT OUR CHAINS

TO LOSE@!@@@@@@@@@@!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quartz Zebra]

11 hours ago, Coral Swan said:

"Praise the Ja!" Su exclaimed, overcome with emotion.

"zzzzzzzzzzzWAGH!"
thud
Barstools never look particularly tall...until you fall out of one. ow.

11 hours ago, Coral Swan said:

"For the Ja is known unto me, and the Ja is great! Oh, may the Ja grant me many more days so I may worship the Ja once more!"

I look up from my newly gained perspective and see someone monologuing over my head. That's always fun.
"eyheyheyeh whas teh big ideea here b-buddy. dontya know its rude to wake someone from a nap? as gloryus as the Ja may be, i bet he wants 'is followers to be well reshted right? ....praizetheja."
ugh
i need a drink.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Quartz Zebra
consistent verb tense in RP? never heard of her.

[Salmon Meerkat]

2 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

*payment is in schadenfreude at your collective suffering

oh

yeah u know what

im not gonna agitate for better working conditions 4 u u profiteer

u were my bro i trusted u fifth

smhmh

may Warmmha turn His face from u

ok no u don't deserve that

everyone deserves

the radiant

gaze

of God

Spoiler

 

[Mauve Crocodile]

ಠ_ಠ

how dare

yeah you know what Fifth is getting paid plenty

...although honesty compels me to admit that Fifth is likely far from alone in wanting to see Tyrian Falls burn...

I'm lookin at you in the spec doc

Edited January 5, 2022 by Mauve Crocodile
formatting is confusing

[Salmon Meerkat]

4 minutes ago, Mauve Crocodile said:

I'm lookin at you in the spec doc

truly the gaze of the crocodile

is wondrous

piercing 

the boundary

between docs

my current reads:

Spoiler

not terribly detailed and anyone with a ! i have not seen and consider a warm body (cold if they don't show up ig)

* is negotiable

i don't have strong elim reads for now but that's not unusual for me

criteria for light village read has generally been very loose from anything like feels like genuinely engaged with game and problem-solving to basic village credit for trying to do reads (this is defeasible because we know elims will do reads too but this is my current classification principle)

elim reads at this point go to largely those i consider perfunctory

cham is an interesting case m0re on cham later

that being said i have generally had a negative read of warm bodies due to suspicions they are trying to slide under the radar / performativity (v sure there will be some performative reads lists too but gonna file that as a 'next day problem' if i get there )

sufficient unto today are the evils of today

as Warmmha would say

[Chartreuse Penguin]

5 hours ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

what I can say is that I began writing the post before even logging in and learning my alignment.

I've definitely heard of players often typing up role analysis or distribution analysis before taking a look at their alignment, but writing up a reads list prior to opening your role PM is new. Also undeniably strange.  My vote stays. I don't particularly like nor really understand the Cham exe, but if the numbers dont shift and we near the end of the cycle, I'll move my vote to Cham to strengthen the exe against any vote manip. Normally I wouldn't mind a tie either; ties result in a random exe, which is always a fun way to have D1s go down, in my opinion  but the existence of vote manips really throws in a lot of uncertainty to it. 

5 hours ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

I figured it'd be especially useful since I have no (known) past rapport to banter about while probing others with questions

Well then it's a good thing that past rapports don't matter in anon games!  

5 hours ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

As for switching reads bit, that's actually a good thing! Generally, if you have a reads list from a villager every day with thought processes attached, you'll see a very consistent and gradual progression. Meanwhile, eliminators switching reads with poor or forced reasoning becomes obvious, allowing us to root them out later  if it weren't so much work, I would encourage all villagers to keep a similar record public.

I agree, I didn't mean to say that switching reads is inherently evil, just that putting out a reads list that early provides a good excuse to switch reads drastically if needed. 

5 hours ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

re:edit: When I was trying to @ Plum Rhino, the tags had stopped working. I tried a few things like completely deleting the line with his name and trying with a fresh line, but that didn't work. I ended up having to copy/paste the whole post and refresh the page. When I went to @ Plum, his name had been removed and the bold had be cleared. I didn't even notice until you pointed it out.

Fair enough. I don't know what kinda response I was expecting but this makes sense.  

 

[Salmon Meerkat]

Unfortunately, Kel is currently incapacitated with a killer headache but not to fear, rambling stream-of-consciousness punctuationless lowercase services will resume shortly, probably whenever he gets access to stronger painkillers.

8 hours ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

I'll update the vote count, however.

• (3) Pearl Chameleon: Scarlet Octopus, Mauve Crocodile, Salmon Meerkat
• (1) Charcoal Hyena: Chartreuse Penguin, 
• (1) Amethyst Scorpion: Charcoal Hyena, 
• (1) Torquoise Gorilla: Violet Axlotlt, 
• (1) Scarlet Octopus: Amber Vulture, 
• (1) Melon Dingo: Coral Swan, 
• (1) Coral Swan: Oxblood Beagle, 
• (1) Violet Axlotl: Onyx Flamingo, 
• (1) Mauve Crocodile: Fuchsia Ostrich, 

I don't have the energy or the bandwidth to redo a count so I am just going to take this count as a given. I said I'd say more about Cham later. I was hoping to wait until more people got in but the killer headache and throwing up has more or less forced my hand. I'm not sure this is usual for a D1 - it's not unusual either. We have numerous single-player votes, and the Cham train.

What to say about the Cham train? I deliberately went back on Cham to see what would happen and take the temperature of the responses. I feel that there hasn't been very much response. This may not be especially damning if the Elims do have a player on Cham, or vote manip, but would seem also lightly suggestive that the Elims aren't particularly invested in whether Cham lives or dies.

On the assumption that Cham is Evil, where are our Elims? I feel as though we are lightly committed to an Elim being on Cham or a vote manipulator in their pocket. Even then, recall that Smokers start the game with their Copperclouds up. You have to send in an order to deactivate it. Vote manip is a bit of a gamble in that light - though not overmuch, as inactives aren't exactly going to be voting, just as they are not going to be turning off their Copperclouds. The first possibility involves an Elim going off Cham and forcing a tie. It would, however, draw attention to Cham but perhaps our hypothetical Elim team has hoped that enough players have expressed misgivings that the Village can be talked into doing that on their own.

What happens if we assume Cham is Village? Again, I think we have a light commitment to at least one of the voters on Cham being Evil, but the rest are either distributed among the other vote trains or apparently inactive.

I'm going to go into a brief aside. Please bear with me  

Suppose you are an Elim in a Tyrian Falls game. Which Village roles are going to send you curled up in a fetal ball?

I assert: a Village Seeker and a Village Coinshot. Fog-of-war is just as real for the Elim team as it is for the Village, and Tyrian Seekers are exceptionally strong because they scan both roles and alignment. The Elim team starts the game with some weak idea of the Village distro, largely because they know the roles of their teammates. But that doesn't rule out the Elim team being tricked by a troll GM. By and large, because Village Seekers and Coinshots threaten to have outsize effects on an Elim team, an Elim team's strategic priorities in a Tyrian game are largely consistent: they want to find and neutralise both Seeker and Coinshot.

Barring a troll GM distribution, it is highly likely and consistent in most Tyrian games that the Elim team will begin with at least one (typically two) Smokers. I know El and Fifth had previously one distribution where there was no Smoker at all (I believe this might have been a distro Kas ran but cannot be sure - if not it was closely-related to it; IIRC Kas promoted one regular to a Smoker at Wyrm's urging.) The problem from a GMing perspective is that while you can troll and unnerve an Elim team by not giving them a Smoker at all, you run the risk of the Elim team cottoning on to a key secret: there is no Village Smoker. I can't say whether that's at work here or not. My point is that it's highly likely the Elim team has at least one Smoker. We know this can't be too troll a distribution like an all-vanilla or all-Smoker game: the fact we have PMs suggests at least one Mistborn with Tin or a Tineye, alignment unknown. If the PMs remain stable into the Night, then we know it's likely a Tineye, or a second Mistborn who drew Tin, because Mistborn reroll powers at Night.)

With all of this established - suppose, for the sake of argument, you are an Elim team with one or two Smokers. You begin the game not knowing if there is a Village Seeker, or a Village Coinshot, or a Village Mistborn who drew Steel. (I don't want to get into the logistics of how the GMs randomise for metals under Tyrian rules right now.) 

What is the strategy you employ?

Yes, of course, taking down Lurchers and Seekers are priorities for you - Thugs are to be avoided, and Coinshots suborned, used to help you kill to parity, or just dealt with so you don't lose teammates. How does your team play, then? You will always have fewer protects and Smokes than you do team members. How do you allocate your resources to reduce your team's risk exposure?

You Smoke the active, high-attention thread control Elim players, and the rest of your team, those who can't be Smoked, especially, and who it would be strange to discover having been Smoked (by Village vote manip, for instance - another complex meta discussion here but Tyrian Villages generally regard with suspicion anyone who is Smoked) try to keep a low profile. So in the AG, Claincy as the lynchpin control Elim was Smoked, Wilson Smoked Wyrm N1 in AG3 working under the assumption they both drew enough threat attention they were likely to get Seeked early on (previous Tyrians began on a Night) and suggested their other Smoker Smoke Nyali if he came on, and I don't remember who the Elim team Smoked in AG2 but AG2 was weird for many reasons including an Elim team that slid under the radar as the returning players tore each other's throats out.

This isn't a problem we have to deal with here because fortunately we are an Anonymous Game (some of us try, and the trying is important ok?) 

So let's get back to the problem. Who do you Smoke, with your limited resources?

A. You could try Smoking noisy Villagers, in the hopes that the Seeker will waste a Seek on them or they will potentially be mislynched.

This isn't impossible: it does presume your team isn't already attracting a lot of attention. Claincy pioneered 'offensive Smoking', using it against Wilson in the AG, as Wilson was one of two Village hubs for information. But Claincy's team - with the exception of Claincy - were generally low profile, and that team had a decent risk appetite. So on the assumption we see offensive Smoking, if we assume that the general Smokers < team size rule holds true in this game, we should start looking at players with a decent risk appetite, and low profile players.

Note that by midgame or endgame, as the Elim team accumulates more info or start to push, they are likely to have a better risk appetite. In AG3, Wilson did offensively Smoke other players like Jon as well. But in the early game with heavy fog-of-war, this isn't so likely a play.

B. You Smoke your prominent, noisy players, the ones most likely to draw attention, because being caught Smoked is marginally better than being caught Evil, and you always have the offensive Smoking or "IDEK man" excuse.

By and large, most teams go for this option. If they have spare Smoking resources, e.g. the rest of the team is quiet, and/or they have a better risk appetite, they can try to Smoke offensively, or cover the more valuable roles on their team.

What do you do against Coinshots? You try to direct suspicion elsewhere, you try to ID the Coinshots, you try to control their kill, and you use Lurching or Thug resources if your team has them.

In both cases, we have the apparently banal conclusion that an Elim team will comprise a mix of noisy thread control players and quiet players who aim to be unremarkable or slip under the radar (note that these are two different quiet player profiles.) Keep in mind that this game has a two-cycle then filter or pinch-hitter inactivity policy, determined by posts in thread. This means that consistent inactivity is not going to be possible - Elims aiming to be unremarkable will blend into the crowd, failing which, they will just barely dodge the filter. (They could also pull the 'always a bigger fish' strategy but that's a variation of blending in, in my view,)

Let's look again at the votes. Suppose I'm not sold on the Cham vote - suppose I am starting to doubt an Elim team would be so quiet about Cham. Suppose, furthermore, as I'm not very good at reading players, that I don't have a strong view on who might be Evil among the noisy ones. 

Where are our under-the-radar Elims hiding?

Quote

• (1) Charcoal Hyena: Chartreuse Penguin, 
• (1) Amethyst Scorpion: Charcoal Hyena, 
• (1) Torquoise Gorilla: Violet Axlotlt, 
• (1) Scarlet Octopus: Amber Vulture, 
• (1) Melon Dingo: Coral Swan, 
• (1) Coral Swan: Oxblood Beagle, 
• (1) Violet Axlotl: Onyx Flamingo, 
• (1) Mauve Crocodile: Fuchsia Ostrich, 

Nice, safe, side-trains with a pretext of activity. Alternatively, we have the possibility of players like Azure Mouse, who are logging in and viewing the thread but saying nothing and therefore, not attracting much attention.

I like ties, and I think there's enough time to force a certain amount of commitment from other players. Of this group, I'd argue that Penguin and Swan and possibly Hyena aren't too much in the fade-to-grey category, and I've already explained that I'm not very keen on voting for Vulture this Day for reasons of sentiment.

I think players like Zebra, Dingo, Lion, Falcon, and Gorilla are largely in that category, which is a reason a number of them ended on my suspicions list. They've done enough to be present but haven't left very much of an imprint on most discussion. I have a slightly stronger negative gut against Zebra and Lion, but as I want the tie, I'm going to vote for Turquoise Gorilla and join Violet Axlotl. I'm not really going to say you live, Pearl Chameleon, as I think you should be tied by this current count, but there you go

If someone wants to join me on Zebra or Lion, I am amenable to switching.

I do think this analysis has implications for where the Coinshots (if any) should go, who the Seekers should check, and what vote manips should do, but I will in general say there are as always layers and IKYKs and leave it at that.

Now excuse me as I need to worship the floor again.

[Saffron Iguana]

9 hours ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

I'm sorry to leave my vote where it is, but first thing in the morning I intend to figure out where I stand on Pearl and his voters, as well as the others I have in yellow who are voting elsewhere.

Seems like you're playing hy ena seek. 

My initial read of this was that you're delaying your vote on Chameleon in case the Spiked plan to make them the primary target today is changed, but I hope to be proved wrong. If they're village and the Cham vote falls through, the Spiked have probably prepared ways to subtly move their votes or have held votes in reserve in case one of their own becomes the likely target. This kind of hedging, the important need to sleep aside, looks like that. 

5 hours ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

that being said i have generally had a negative read of warm bodies 

The Reptile Gang appreciates your support in our fight for dominance. 

4 hours ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

I agree, I didn't mean to say that switching reads is inherently evil, just that putting out a reads list that early provides a good excuse to switch reads drastically if needed. 

Swan, take notes. That's how you use them unsuspiciously. 

[Coral Swan]

7 hours ago, Quartz Zebra said:

"zzzzzzzzzzzWAGH!"
thud
Barstools never look particularly tall...until you fall out of one. ow.

I look up from my newly gained perspective and see someone monologuing over my head. That's always fun.
"eyheyheyeh whas teh big ideea here b-buddy. dontya know its rude to wake someone from a nap? as gloryus as the Ja may be, i bet he wants 'is followers to be well reshted right? ....praizetheja."
ugh
i need a drink.

Su sniffed at the remark, but it had some truth to it. The truth was just severely misused. "I assure you, I am plenty well rested myself, praise the Ja." he said condescendingly. "If I can find enough time to sleep in between my priority of glorifying the Ja- praise the Ja- than you certainly can as well."

48 minutes ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

I like ties, and I think there's enough time to force a certain amount of commitment from other players. Of this group, I'd argue that Penguin and Swan and possibly Hyena aren't too much in the fade-to-grey category, and I've already explained that I'm not very keen on voting for Vulture this Day for reasons of sentiment.

I think players like Zebra, Dingo, Lion, Falcon, and Gorilla are largely in that category, which is a reason a number of them ended on my suspicions list. They've done enough to be present but haven't left very much of an imprint on most discussion. I have a slightly stronger negative gut against Zebra and Lion, but as I want the tie, I'm going to vote for Turquoise Gorilla and join Violet Axlotl. I'm not really going to say you live, Pearl Chameleon, as I think you should be tied by this current count, but there you go

If someone wants to join me on Zebra or Lion, I am amenable to switching.

If the count stays as close as it is for the next 10-11 hours it's likely I'll switch to Gorilla, Zebra, or Lion. I'm fine with any of those three, in that order. It depends on what the count is beforehand. I'd stay on Dingo in a 2-3 tie between Lion and Gorilla, but if it's between Gorilla and Axolotl I'd move to Gorilla. Those, of course, are random examples but I'm sure you get what I mean  It's probably a bit of a controversial stance, but I'm staying where I feel the best staying unless someone I actively don't want to die has a chance of doing so.

If it's still with Chameleon... I dunno. I need to figure out where I stand on them in reation to everyone else.

41 minutes ago, Saffron Iguana said:

Swan, take notes. That's how you use them unsuspiciously. 

What's that supposed to mean?

Praise the Ja!

[Amber Vulture]

I was hoping to get this to the end of the thread, but I've spent far too much time on this today already, so to the end of page four will have to suffice. I will return to thinking about it this evening, and summate my thoughts (and unquestionably move my vote), but my analysis of the thread so far can be seen below. Pre-emptive apologies for formatting. I've been taught how to get grid lines here, but for the life of me just cannot recall how.

Edit: looks like I've broken the site's formatting. Reposting without cycle and post numbers so it keeps more of it on the screen:

Player	Summary	Vote	Retractions	Thoughts	AI	Notable connections
Elbereth	Writeup	GM	GM	GM	GM
Elbereth	Admin	GM	GM	GM	GM
Saffron Iguana	Gives LG74 distribution. Draws spiked ratio from this. Suggets village distribution similar.	N/A	N/A	Odd to assume distribution similar. Player of limited experience? Agree re spiked number.	NAI	None
Magenta Albatross	Says "looked differently in a past life". Replies to Saffron Iguana, suggesting that if LG74 distro holds, perhaps no village seekers.	N/A	N/A	Played at least one anon game before. Engaging with assumption of LG74 distribution without questioning it - why?	NAI	Reply to Saffron Iguana
Elbereth	Admin	GM	GM	GM	GM
Coral Swan	RP. Agrees with assumption of 5-6 spiked. Doesn't agree with assumption of LG74 distribution. Expects a village seeker	N/A	N/A	Makes sensible statements. Noithing controversial or alignment indicative	NAI	Refutes assumptions of Saffron Iguana and Magenta Albatross
Saffron Iguana	Suggests LG74 as baseline because up to date with meta. Draws from this that 2/3rds have roles. Suggests spiked one of each role.	N/A	N/A	Disagree with assumption. Plenty of prior meta, GMs have wealth of experience. Anon game meta also differs. Possibility of role? Spiked having one of each role vastly overpowered - see coinshot. Possible deliberate comment if evil, likely village not considering power	Mild village	Reply to Coral Swan
Turquoise Gorilla	RP. Proposes we discuss village to eliminator distribution.	N/A	N/A	Unhelpful formatting. Seeks to spark discussion, well trodden ground for early discussion, of limited value (but not much else of value to discuss)	NAI	None
Pearl Chameleon	Suggests coinshots should be initially cautious, as odds of hitting spiked increase as game goes on. Suggests five spiked, six if role balance weak for team. Places vote on Saffron Iguana for relying on LG74 distribution.	Saffron Igunana	N/A	Sensible, well reasoned post. I've always been more in favour of thought out vigilante kills, but C1 probably does have too little information to go on. Vote on Saffron Iguana the obvious vote, but voting on largely NAI material	NAI	Disagrees with Saffron Iguana, votes on them
Magenta Albatross	RP. Asks what rules mean by role madness. Gives self answer - that not everyone has a role. Suggests regardless that all spiked have a role.	N/A	N/A	Genuine question? Why assumption of spiked roles? Inexperience, or desire to appear so?	Unsure	None
Saffron Iguana	Replies to Pearl Chameleon (who voted on them). Doesn't engage with vote. Asks why Pearl Chameleon describes seeker as power role for spiked	N/A	N/A	Either attempt to seem village, or genuine village thought process. Seeker of great value to spiked in identifying village power roles to kill, and to claim village seeker & build fake trust circle. Nai on not engaging with vote	Mild village	Replies to Pearl Chameleon, doesn't engage with vote
Elbereth	Clarifies role madness	GM	GM	GM	GM
Scarlet Octopus	RP. Suggests 6.5 eliminators, rounded to 7. Makes assumption about village distribution. Doesn't think eliminator tineye. Discounts eliminator seeker. Firmly discounts eliminator coinshot. Questions Pearl Chameleon's guess of five eliminators. Questions confidence of Pearl Chameleon in their confidence of role distribution, questions spiked seeker, calling it weak. Votes on Pearl Chameleon	Pearl Chameleon	N/A	Disagree strongly re number of eliminators - much too high. Dislike discounting of eliminator seeker. Gut concern that elim seeker on team. If flips spiked, reconsider this strongly.	Mild evil	Disagrees with Pearl Chameleon, votes on them
Turquoise Gorilla	Non-RP post. Believes 6-7 spiked. Suggests eliminator kill role (coinshot/mistborn)	N/A	N/A	Disagree with spiked assumption, probably NAI. Village slip considering coinshot/mistborn equivalent for spiked?	Mild village	None
Coral Swan	Responds to Saffron Iguana's reasoning for LG74 baseline. Suspects elims do not have all roles. Responds to Pearl Chameleon vote on Saffron Iguana, says they considered it. Suggests content of Saffron Iguana's first post unlikely to have been written since role PM. Suggests Chameleon village slipped by calling Seeker powerful role, but could have been deliberate. Finds Scarlet Octopus' assumption of 7 elims high, questiosn why they assume scenario they admit less likely. Definitely doesn't believe eliminators have a coinshot	N/A	N/A	Agree generally with points made - but NAI. Disagree with considering Seeker only power role for village. Believe it to be one of the strongest elim roles available.	Unsure	Replies to Saffron Iguana, semi-defends Saffron Iguana to Pearl Chameleon, replies to Scarlet Octopus, replies to Turquoise Gorilla
Fuchsia Ostrich	RP. Responds to Saffron Iguana, suggesting LG74 an exception to Tyrian Falls meta. Says number of eliminatorsdoesn't matter. Calls attention to Pearl Chameleon's thoughts on Coinshot	N/A	N/A	Nothing of note	NAI	Calls attention to thoughts of Pearl Chameleon
Scarlet Octopus	Says if elim coinshot, lynch or lose four rounds away. Doesn't find it likely, but says could be balanced with lurchers/seekers	N/A	N/A	Dislike formatting - obfuscates their points. Why call attention to lylo this early? Doesn't inform how we should play game - based on two very unlikely assumptions (7 elims, elim coinshot). Says it could be balanced with thugs, doesn't consider them in lylo calc. Feels alarmist. Fed by recent game meta?	NAI	None
Coral Swan	Agrees with Fuchsia Ostrich that number of elims doesn't matter.	N/A	N/A	Agree with them, but NAI	NAI	Agrees with Fuchsia Ostrich
Emerald Falcon	RP	N/A	N/A	Difficult formatting	NAI	None
Scarlet Octopus	Replies to Coral Swan saying elim numbers don't matter, suggests consensus on lylo point important	N/A	N/A	Why is it important? How does LyLo point alter our gameplay, particularly if based on assumptions. I view use of numbers discussion as only useful to validate opinions on distribution (which I think is of limited value itself), or in late game to check known eliminator views	Probably NAI	Disagrees with Coral Swan
Saffron Iguana	Suggests Fuchsia Ostrich bold to assume that GMS didn't take LG74 as a challenge. Replies to Scarlet Octopus Suggests equivalence of v!lurchers to e!seekers. Limited value due to size of group	N/A	N/A	Stranger to asusme GMs did take strange game as challenge. Not sure I follow equivalence.	NAI	Disagrees with Fuchsia Ostrich, replies to Scarlet Octopus
Salmon Meerkat	RP	N/A	N/A	RP	NAI	None
Pearl Chameleon	Replies to Saffron Iguana. Jokingly suggests seekers not that powerful. Replies to Scarlet Octopus (who queried earlier guess of five elims). Says five felt right. Says maybe six makes more sense. Hadn't realised increase to 26 players. Thinks likely coinshot or mistborn. Expresses sadness at Scarlet Octopus' vote on them. Says elim coinshot would be fun, but is unlikely.	N/A	N/A	Limited conviction in views - adjusting when challenged. NAI?	NAI	Replies to Saffron Iguana, responds to Pearl Chameleon, notes vote on them
Amethyst Scorpion	RP. Says elim coinshots too powerful. Notes village lost every Tyrian Falls game, thinks weaker elim team in response.	N/A	N/A	Agree re elim coinshots, NAI argument. Disagree that necessarily weaker elim team, perhaps more conservative distribution though?	NAI	Doesn't directly reply, engages in thread discussion
Salmon Meerkat	Says LG74 distribution had been generated for AG5, so unusual distribution possible. Says elim coinshot included in some possible distributions. Votes on Sunburst Toucan	Sunburst Toucan	N/A	More active/experienced player. Thoughts and poke vote NAI	NAI	Replies to Saffron Iguana/Scarlet Octopus re distribution. Votes on Sunburst Toucan to encourage activity
Emerald Falcon	Says brain not working	N/A	N/A	Unhelpful - post to stay active?	NAI	None
Scarlet Octopus	Replies to Saffron Iguana's suggestion that lurchers less useful to village, suggests can turn games. Kill blocked every other game.	N/A	N/A	Lurchers most of use when village begins to identify trusted villagers. Threat of kill on trusted villager being blocked perhaps of more use than blocked kill itself	NAI	Replies to Saffron Iguana
Salmon Meerkat	RP. Complains of reading distribution discussion. Agrees with Coral Swan re pointless element to discussion. Says if village seekers then elim smokers. Notes power of village seeker re alignment/role. Says Elbereth/Fifth have more orthodox doctrine on distribution, but doesn't want to engage in guessing GMs. Retracts from Sunburst Toucan, votes on Pearl Chameleon for making performative vote. Says felt like looking for excuse to vote. Likes Octopus' line of thought, thinks idea of lylo useful. Says vote manip/nks useful for making distribution inferences.	Pearl Chameleon	Sunburst Toucan	Thoughts prior to vote NAI. Agree that Pearl Chameleon's vote was easy, but five player posts prior to it - didn't have much to go on. I often place early votes as tool to generate discussion. In essence, agree with  Salmon Meerkat's read of it, do not consider it vote worthy or AI. Query why timing of lylo useful. Voting on Pearl Chameleon's early vote not engaging with context - mild elim read	Mild evil	Agrees with Octopus, votes on Pearl Chameleo
Mauve Crocodile	RP. Votes in character on Pearl Chameleon	Pearl Chameleon	N/A	No explanation for vote - query reasoning. Third vote, but one minute after second vote - likely written beforehand.	NAI	Votes on Pearl Chameleon. Unlikely that Salmon Meerkat and Mauve Crocodile on same team for this reason
Melon Dingo	RP. Says similar setup to LG74 unlikely	N/A	N/A	Doesn't engage with vote discussion. NAI points	NAI	None
Scarlet Octopus	Replies to Emerald Falcon, says we should cleanse "those who bog us down"	N/A	N/A	Agree that Emerald Falcon unhelpful. If suggesting we vote them out, strongly disagree. Easy way to waste information generating discussion.	Very mild evil	Calls out Emerald Falcon
Mauve Crocodile	Jokes that distribution is all vanilla with one mistborn. Replies to Turquoise Gorilla, says elim would not make equivalence between elim coinshot and mistborn, and so leans village. Replies to Saffron Iguana that they can't see equivalence between seekers and lurchers	N/A	N/A	Agree with village read on Turquoise Gorilla. Seeking village cred by pointing it out? More likely genuine effort to solve game.	Mild village	Replies to Saffron Iguana, considers Turquoise Gorilla village lean
Pearl Chameleon	Responds to Salmon Meerkat's vote on them. Says every first post of game is performative. Says wanted to spur discussion, so looked for a reason to vote.	N/A	N/A	Mild village - agree with logic, and D1 voting generates more information than non-threatening discussion. Have done the same many times as village.	Mild	Replies to Salmon Meerkat
Scarlet Octopus	Says Pearl Chameleon feels slimy/evasive. Says they are being backtracky, notes may be tunneling.	N/A	N/A	Disagree - but maybe because I like playstyle of Pearl Chameleon. Adding pressure to Pearl Chameleon, lynch candidate, four hours into cycle.	Very mild evil	Replies to Mauve Crocodile, supporting lynch of Pearl Chameleon
Mauve Crocodile	Says Octopi adept at tunneling	N/A	N/A	If suggesting Scarlet Octopus is tunneling, agree. If so, then supporting Pearl Chameleon without making it explicit	NAI	Potential disagree with Scarlet Octopus, indirect defence of Pearl Chameleon. Potentially just a joking comment
Salmon Meerkat	Responds to Pearl Chameleon. Says first votes not always banal, cites games. Says dislikes Pearl Chameleon's vote because based on something NAI or bad reasoning, but that villagers can also have bad reasoning. Says feels like Pearl Chameleon not concerned with finding elims but appearing to do so. Doesn't like addition of votes to Pearl Chameleon this early in cycle.	N/A	N/A	I don't disagree that bad reasoning certainly done by villagers. I disagree that voting on tenuous grounds is just to appear to find elims. Entirely legitimate to vote to generate information at this stage of the game, rather than to find eliminators. Rationalisation of earlier vote?	Unsure	Develops pressure on Pearl Chameleon, but dislikes lynch train growing on them
Pearl Chameleon	Replies to Scarlet Octopus. Says first vote was a shot in the dark, retracts it. Replies to Salmon Meerkat, says their first vote was shoddy. Says they had thought that having bad reasoning meant evil.	N/A	Saffron Iguana	Dislike reaction to pressure. No conviction in views. If village, perhaps more likely to stand by them?	Mild evil	Replies to Scarlet Octopus and Salmon Meerkat. Retracts on Saffron Iguana, under pressure.
Mauve Crocodile	Says they thought their vote would be second on Chameleon, but explicitly notes hasn't retracted it. Says people should vote if they don't like three votes on Chameleon	N/A	N/A	Has not justified their vote on Chameleon, but by making it explicit not hiding on lynch train. NAI	NAI	Addresses Pearl Chameleon
Oxblood Beagle	Replies to Emerald Falcon saying their brain doesn't work, agrees	N/A	N/A	Unhelpful, NAI	NAI	Replies to Emerald Falcon
Chartreuse Penguin	Provides vote count. Votes on Violet Axolotl. Says normally more talkative. Will be less so this game. Asks to be PMd. Says vote count wrong as missed a page	Violet Axolotl	N/A	Less talkative playstyle generates less information - excuse to hide? Vote on player who hasn't yet posted.	NAI	Votes on Violet Axolotl
Salmon Meerkat	Replies to Chartreuse Penguin's vote count. Says they thought more votes on Pearl Chameleon, and too early for that.	N/A	N/A	Indirect discouragement of more votes on Chameleon.	NAI	Replis to Chartreuse Penguin, indirect discouragement of more votes on Pearl Chameleon
Charcoal Hyena	Provides emotion based reads on players who have posted. Says Coral Swan felt village, disagrees with Saffron Iguana but says feels like they are trying to solve game. Gets new player feel from Magenta Albatross, says feels geniuine. Leans village on Scarlet Octopus, says tunneling both offputting and reassuring. Leans village on Salmon Meerkat due to poke vote on Sunburst Toucan. Neutral on Chartreuse Penguin, wants more engagement. Neutral on Emeraldn Falcon. Very slight village lean on Fuchsia Ostrich due to nonchalance to number of spiked. Neutral on Mauve Crocodile, suggest their retraction from Pearl Chameleon and encouragement for players to vote elsewhere could mean E/E. Neutral on Melon Dingo, Oxblood Beagle, wants more engagement. Says would have done the same thing as Pearl Chameleon for same reason, suggests more thoughts based on their response. Neutral on Turquoise Gorilla. Suggests Amethyst Scorpion might have slipped with firm language about elim team being weaker. Votes on Amethyst Scorpion	Amethyst Scorpion	N/A	Emotion based reads both useful and convenient to back down from. Mild support of Pearl Chameleon not explicit in post. Question why Salmon Meerkat's poke vote felt alignment indicative. Not sure I agree re Amethyst Scorpion slipping - feels slightly contrived. Post an attempt to seem helpful, having opinions, without committing to them?	Unsure - reevaluate	Summons all inactive players. Comments on all active players. Unprompted support for Pearl Chameleon, lynch candidate. Votes on Amethyst Scorpion
Chartreuse Penguin	Responds to Charcoal Hyena, says voted on Violet Axolotl to make them more active. Notes their own mistake on vote count, says they thought their vote split vote four ways. Votes on Charcoal Hyena on gut, but says their reads list an easy way for an elim to gain village cred	Charcoal Hyena	Violet Axolotl	Feels like a genuine and fair read of Charcoal Hyena's post.	Very mild village	Votes on Charcoal Hyena
Salmon Meerkat	RP. Retracts from Pearl Chameleon, votes on Amber Vulture for reading thread but not commenting	Amber Vulture	Pearl Chameleon	Lowers pressure on Pearl Chameleon, consistent with earlier statements, but not in way defending them. Fair enough to vote on me.	NAI	Lowers pressure on Pearl Chameleon, votes on Amber Vulture
Saffron Iguana	Thanks Charcoal Hyena for reads list. Notes contract between Pearl Chameleon's earlier strong argument and more recent retraction. Thinks a villager would be more likely to not change views under pressure. Replies to Amethyst Scorpion, says theory on elim coinshots being too strong will be tested soon enough, assuming "our coinshot" chooses to shoot tonight. Explains belief in equivalence between v!lurcher and e!seeker as both being a role stronger for other team. Rates elim vote manipulators as limited power	N/A	N/A	Agree re views on pearl Chameleon's actions - feels genuine. Request explanation for what they meant by theory being tested soon enough - why would village coinshot prove elim coinshot as too powerful?	Mild village	Replies to Charcoal Hyena, Pearl Chameleon, Melon Dingo, Salmon Meerkat, Amethyst Scorpion, Mauve Crocodile. Expresses elim view of Pearl Chameleon
Opal Lion	Says they have been sleeping	N/A	N/A	Nothing of note	NAI	None
Coral Swan	Multiquote. Replies to Scarlet Octopus, notes time of lynch or lose shouldn't change behaviours. Says Mauve Crocodile's view of Turquoise Gorilla a villager thing to do. Says they want to village read Pearl Chameleon for voting on Saffron Iguana as nearly did same thing themselves, notes last anon game discussion sparking player was evil. Replies to Charcoal Hyena's read on Pearl Chameleon, says if you think you'd have done the same thing as what someone did, enough for a D1 village read. Doesn't like that only one red name on list, thinks reasoning for vote on Amethyst Scorpion weak. Thinks absence of read on Pearl Chameleon weird. Reads post as elim based on construction. Replies to Chartreuse Penguin's vote on Hyena, notes agreement re thoughts. Says non-commital tone though more likely to come from a villager. Strongest village reads on Crocodile and Iguana. Strongest elim read on Hyena. Votes on Amber Vulture	Amber Vulture	N/A	Agree with village read on Mauve for read on Turquoise. Having noted that, limited transferable applicability to village read on Coral Swan. Question lack of committal to view on Charcoal Hyena - why no vote?	Very mild village	Slight, if odd, defence of Pearl Chameleon, elim read on Hyena without a vote. Votes on Amber Vulture
Salmon Meerkat	Asks Saffron Iguana why seekers absent from Spiked power ranking	N/A	N/A	Sensible question. Saffron Iguana earlier also downplayed power of seeker to spiked	Very mild village	Queries Saffron Iguana
Turquoise Gorilla	Quotes player distribution discussion. Says thinks 25% the sweet spot for eliminator numbers, so 6-7 eliminator team	N/A	N/A	Doesn't engage with vote discussion	Very mild elim	Quotes team distribution discussion, doesn't engage with posts directly
Salmon Meerkat	Quotes Turquoise Gorilla, points out Tyrian Falls meta build by Metacognition. Calls out further discussion of distribution	N/A	N/A	Agree with points, NAI	NAI	Replies to Turquoise Gorilla
Scarlet Octopus	Replies to element of Charcoal Hyena's post considering them. Points out that their own vote wasn't very thorough. Says not going to do reads at this point	N/A	N/A	Calls out Charcoal Hyena, provides sensible logic for their vote remaining in place.	NAI	Less likely on same team as Charcoal Hyena
Quartz Zebra	RP. Thinks six eliminators with no coinshot	N/A	N/A	Completely uncontroversial, NAI	NAI	None
Coral Swan	RP reply to Quartz Zebra	N/A	N/A	None	NAI	RP reply to Quartz Zebra
Quartz Zebra	RP reply to Coral Swan	N/A	N/A	None	NAI	RP reply to Coral Swan
Chartreuse Penguin	Asks for reads list from Coral Swan. Suggests absence of elim seeker from Meerkat (Iguana's) power reads because elims might have seeker. Asks players not to roleclaim in PMs (Confuses Meerkat and Iguana)	N/A	N/A	Agree with view of Iguana, feels like engaging with posts in attempt to solve game. Distancing? Possible, probably not	Mild village	Confuses Salmon Meerkat and Saffron Iguana. Unlikely to be on a team with either. Less likely to be on elim team with Saffron Iguana
Salmon Meerkat	Points out that Chartreuse Penguin meant Safron Iguana in post 55. Comments on roleclaiming.	N/A	N/A	Nothing alignment indicative	NAI	Replies to Chartreuse Penguin
Chartreuse Penguin	Acknowledges Salmon Meerkat re confusion on player identities. Says village will lose more from genuine roleclaims.	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	Replies to Salmon Meerkat
Amethyst Scorpion	Replies to Charcoal Hyena's read list. Says Coral Swan helpful with opinions, "keeping options open alignment wise". Says Saffron Iguana's opinions on Seekers and Lurchers justified. Points out that new players can also be eliminators. Respinds to vote saying qualifiers in opinions.	N/A	N/A	Sensible engagement with post, NAI	NAI	Says Saffron Iguana's views on seekers justified. Replies to Charcoal Hyena, who voted on them
Salmon Meerkat	Replies to Chartreuse Penguin, will not engage in fakeclaiming.	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	Replies to Chartreuse Penguin
Coral Swan	RP reply to Quartz Zebra. Says mathematically revealing role to another player at random likely to be village, calls it a terrible idea. Asks Amethyst Scorpion to clarify their read on them	N/A	N/A	NAI	N	Replies to Quartz Zebra, Chartreuse Penguin, Amethyst Scorpion
Violet Axolotl	RP. Votes on Turquoise Gorilla for trying to look helpful whilst not helping	Turquoise Gorilla	N/A	Agree with observation of Turquoise Gorilla's actions.	Very mild village	Votes on Turquoise Gorilla
Oxblood Beagle	Replies to Charcoal Hyena asking them to give more information. Thinks distribution discussion irrelevant	N/A	N/A	Doesn't provide any more relevant discussion themselves	NAI	Replies to Charcoal Hyena
Saffron Iguana	Replies to Salmon Meerkat spotting absense of spiked seeker from power list, doesn't give explanation. Says value would be after smokers. Agrees with Violet Axolotl that Turquoise Gorilla not being helpful.	N/A	N/A	Query reason for omission. Agree with view on Turquoise Gorilla's actions.	NAI	Supports Violet Axolotl's view on Turquoise Gorilla
Opal Lion	Asks whether we know if everyone has a role	N/A	N/A	Hasn't read rules. Claiming a role. Could be confised villager, or eliminator deliberately seeking to give impression	Mild village	None
Oxblood Beagle	Replies to Opal Lion, says not role madness	N/A	N/A	Has been following thread	NAI	Replies to Opal Lion
Amber Vulture	Says had been hoping to do a longer post. Says has been seen on thread because trying to keep up, but working. Says Scarlet Octopus focus on lylo alarmist. In absence of better idea, votes on Scarlet Octopus	Scarlet Octopus	N/A	Shouldn't post when tired on half-recollections. Not considered other posts by other players. Clearly ought to be lynched immediately	Steel Inquisitor	Calls out views of and votes on Scarlet Octopus
Mauve Crocodile	Replies to Charcoal Hyena, suggests reads lists early D1 are village leaning because harder for eliminator. Asks Saffron Iguana what information would be gained from a coinshot kill. Asks Coral Swan why they are voting on Amber Vulture if their strongest eliminator read is on Hyena. Replies to Amber Vulture, says villagers most likely to be pessimistic about distribution	N/A	N/A	Strongly disagree re view on D1 reads - always much easier for me when eliminator - feel less pressure to be right. Fair point re Scarlet Octopus.	Gut very mild village	Supports Charcoal Hyena, questions voting of Coral Swan, replies to Amber Vulture defending Scarlet Octopus
Scarlet Octopus	Replies to Amber Vulture, saying "not the best reasoning, but valid"	N/A	N/A	Nothing meaningful	NAI	Replies to Amber Vulture
Coral Swan	Replies to Mauve Crocodile. Doesn't feel settled enough on read of Hyena to want them dead. Voted on Amber Vulture to add pressure	N/A	N/A	Fair enough answer, review connections later on	NAI	Says not sure about read on Charcoal Hyena. Vote on Amber Vulture to add pressure.
Mauve Crocodile	Replies to Coral Swan, is satisfied with their explanation	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	Replies to Coral Swan
Saffron Iguana	Responds to Mauve Crocodile's query of their thoughts on N1 revealing an elim coinshot. Assumes any coinshot will shoot tonight, except hesitant village on. If three kills, probably eliminator coinshot. Responds to Amber Vulture, says Scarlet Octopus just pessimistic	N/A	N/A	Not sure I buy the logic here - they themselves acknowledge complications. Suggest speculating on impact of night rurn on distribution better done as post hoc analysis.	Gut mild evil	Responds to Mauve Crocodile, Amber Vulture, defends Scarlet Octopus
Salmon Meerkat	Says from PMs light village read on Amethyst Scorpion. Retracts from Amber Vulture because they guessed successfully my identity and didn't wish to see me dead. Returns vote to Pearl Chameleon.	Pearl Chameleon	Amber Vulture	Mild gut good from presentation of read on Amethyst Scorpion. Vote on Pearl Chameleon interesting - from reading thread I'm (at post 72) inclined to agree with it. Gut feeling that Salmon Meerkat trying to solve the game.	Gut mild good	PM with Amethyst Scorpion, mild village read. Retracts from Amber Vulture based on player identity. Votes on Pearl Chameleon
Magenta Albatross	Replies to Saffron Iguana. Admits to having asked players for roles in PMs. Provides updated vote counts. Suggests they have mild village reads on those who didn't want to role trade in PMs. Says they don't know who to vote for	N/A	N/A	I think acknowledging having been phishing is NAI. Possibly leaning elim - felt better to come into open about it first? Clearly engaged with game if Pming, doesn't give reads from PMs despite claiming they have them. Dislike their reluctance to vote.	Mild evil	Replies to Saffron Iguana, claims to have PMd multiple players
Elbereth	Admin	GM	GM	GM	GM	GM
Coral Swan	Gives read list. Mauve Crocodile, Magenta Albatross as village. Salmon Meerkat, Chartreuse Penguin, Scarlet Octopus, Fuchsia Ostrich, Amethyst Scorpion as light village. Quartz Zebra, Saffron Iguana, Pearl Chameleon light spiked. Charcoal Hyena, Turquoise Gorilla spiked. Not sure about their reads on Hyena, Chameleon, Iguana, Scorpion and Penguin. Everyone else null or hasn't posted. Wants to vote for a null read, as wants to develop other reads more before voting for them. Retracts from Amber Vulture, votes on Melon Dingo, as their posts just mirror earlier thoughts	Melon Dingo	Amber Vulture	Doesn't give reasons for reads. Strong dislike of not wanting elim reads lynched - seems not to want to be held to their reads by alignment reveal	Moderate evil	Votes on Melon Dingo, retracts from Amber Vulture. See post summary for views on other players
Oxblood Beagle	Finds it odd that Coral Swan voting for a null read over an eliminator read. Votes on Coral Swan	Coral Swan	N/A	Completely agree with analysis	Mild village	Votes on Coral Swan, calls out their logic
Salmon Meerkat	RP reply to Coral Swan	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None
Opal Lion	RP	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None
Violet Axolotl	Asks Coral Swan to join their vote on Turquoise Gorilla, as Coral Swan has Turquoise Gorilla as an elim read	N/A	N/A	Committed to their vote, consistent view	Mild village	Asks Coral Swan to vote on Turquoise Gorilla
Coral Swan	Says voting for null read because doesn't want to kill based on poor read, would rather kill less active player for "almost as much reason". Responds to Violet Axolotl, says they will consider voting for Turquoise Gorilla. Doesn't know whether they feel stronger about Charcoal Hyena or Turquoise Gorilla	N/A	N/A	I still think the logic is fundamentally flawed. Beyond that, lynching less actives has been discussed to death, and I remain fo the view that it is largely useless.	Moderate evil	Replies to Oxblood Beagle, and Violet Axolotl's request they vote on Turquoise Gorilla
Onyx Flamingo	RP. Votes on Violet Axolotl for being over eager to lynch Turquoise Gorilla.	Violet Axolotl	N/A	Possible defence of Turquoise Gorilla? Disagree that trying to persuade others of your view is suspicious	Mild evil	Votes on Violet Axolotl, indirect defense of Turquoise Gorilla
Violet Axolotl	Responds to Onyx Flamingo, defending (sarcastically) trying to persuade others of their view	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	Replies to Onyx Flamingo
Saffron Iguana	Calls out Magenta Albatross for hedging their views. Says they receieved PMs from Amethyst Scorpion and Magenta Albatross	N/A	N/A	Agree with calling out of Magenta Albatross	NAI	Calls out Magenta Albatross
Scarlet Octopus	Replies to Saffron Iguana's defence of Scarlet Octopus to Amber Vulture. Says their pessimism is because games almost always go to lynch or lose	N/A	N/A	Haven't been following recent games. Makes sense if formative game experience	NAI	Response to Saffron Iguana re Amber Vulture
Coral Swan	Says Onyx Flamingo's post is light village due to tone and commitment. Hasn't received PMs	N/A	N/A	Disagree, based on content of post	Very mild evil	Supports Onyx Flamingo
Scarlet Octopus	RP	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None
Mauve Crocodile	Read list. Null for Amber Vulture. Positive for Charcoal Hyena for early reads list, even though they disagree with contents. Positive for Chartreuse Penguin as reads overanalysing as village. Positive reads on Coral Swan for finding village slip in post by Pearl Chameleon, negative for not voting based on reads, positive for explanation of not doing so. Negative for Oxblood Beagle for opportunistic vote. Negative for Pearl Chameleon for asking village coinshots to hold off. Null for Saffron Iguana. Positive for Salmon Meerkat for PMs. Positive for Scarlet Octopus for paranoia. Positive for Turquoise Gorilla for conflation of elim coinshot and mistborn. Positive for Violet Axolotl for trying to persuade people onto a train - willingness to own consequences	N/A	N/A	Unless I've missed a retraction, vote presently on Pearl Chameleon. Disagree with some conclusions - e.g. on Oxblood Beagle.	Very mild village	See post
Charcoal Hyena	Replies to Chartreuse Penguin's vote on them. Claims to have started writing reads post before logging in to see alignment. Says solves game by narrowing pool of suspects down. Says switching reads a good thing for determining alignment. Says initially read Pearl Chameleon as village for first post, but reaction to pressure needs looking at. Says village read of Magenta not just because they give new player vibes, but village new player vibes	N/A	N/A	Reminds me of a very dangerous player… Call out writing part of post before logging in. Odd behaviour - although not necessarily alignment indicative, merely player being prepared to be an eliminator. Willingness to admit it perhaps reduces likelihood of this. Explanation of how they solve game NAI. Gut read that genuinely trying to solve game. Watch carefully. Timezone aligns with dangerous player.	Reevaluate frequently, gut village	Replies to Chartreuse Penguin, Safrron Iguana. Coral Swan, Scarlet Octopus, Mauve Crocodile, Amethyst Scorpion
Coral Swan	RP. Appreciates Charcoal Hyena's method of solving game.	N/A	N/A	None. Large part of what Charcoal Hyena said was NAI, yet also get village gut read	NAI	Reply to Charcoal Hyena
Oxblood Beagle	Responds to Coral Swan's explanation of not voting for their reads. Says it makes sense, but that they have historically ignored too many gut reads	N/A	N/A	Not sure they should be letting Coral Swan off that lightly	NAI	Reply to Coral Swan
Coral Swan	Replies to Oxblood Beagle, says they don't trust their own gut. Respects Oxblood Beagle's vote on them	N/A	N/A	Not worried by vote, but under no lynch pressure.	NAI	Reply to Oxblood Beagle
Fuchsia Ostrich	Thought Charcoal Hyena was Fifth Scholar, but now realises that Fifth IMing. Asks Coral Swan why they read Mauve Crocodile as village, as strong gut read on Mauve Crocodile as evil. Votes on Mauve Crocodile	Mauve Crocodile	N/A	Also have mild village read on Mauve Crocodile. Would like to see if Fuchsia Ostrich can articulate their gut view	Very mild evil	Question to Coral Swan, vote on Mauve Crocodile
Coral Swan	Replies to Fuchsia Ostrich, says Mauve Crocodile's posts read village. Early reads not likely to have been made by eliminator. Approach to solving seems solid.	N/A	N/A	Approach to solving should be NAI - easy to replicate if evil. Agree re tonal reading of posts. Willingness to defend views	Mild village	Defence of Mauve Crocodile, response to Fuchsia Ostrich
Fifth Scholar	Clarification that co-GM, not IM	GM	GM	GM	GM	GM
Charcoal Hyena	Thanks Mauve Crocodile for reads list. Says late for them, so will just update the vote count	N/A	N/A	Very late at 5:30am GMT. NAI	NAI	Appreciates Mauve's read list
Violet Axolotl	Jokes to Fifth Scholar	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None
Salmon Meerkat	Joking responses	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None
Scarlet Octopus	Joke	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None
Mauve Crocodile	Joking responses	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None
Salmon Meerkat	Joking responses	N/A	N/A	NAI	NAI	None

Edited January 5, 2022 by Amber Vulture

[Salmon Meerkat]

I've been mentioning my Scorp thoughts to a bunch of PM partners and I think I just want to throw it into the thread so my line of thought is at least a matter of public record and probably can get @ if there are holes in it. Partly because Vulture's longpost also made me realise I have been a bit too circumspect on it. Long story short, I got a PM from Scorp sometime after the joking roleclaim exchanges suggesting I was an Elim Soother or Elim Smoker.

My light Village read of Scorp is basically based off the thought that it's an oddly specific sort of way to phish and that phishing must in part be the intention - an Elim has no real reason to jokingly send that sort of PM, and an Elim would anyway be more interested in my role than in what would be a Villager reaction to being alignment-phished. A Villager on the other hand who is feeling particularly spicy might be more interested in eliciting an alignment phish reaction.

That being said, when I said as much to Scorp, Scorp half took it back, which is a confusing sort of response as I'd expect a Villager to generally be pretty cool with getting lightly Village read but I can't for the life of me see it being an Elim response either, so I'm just shrugging and marking that as a light Villager with asterisk read.

12 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

I was hoping to get this to the end of the thread, but I've spent far too much time on this today already, so to the end of page four will have to suffice. I will return to thinking about it this evening, and summate my thoughts (and unquestionably move my vote), but my analysis of the thread so far can be seen below. Pre-emptive apologies for formatting. I've been taught how to get grid lines here, but for the life of me just cannot recall how.

Me, reading:

"ok bro but what's ur vote"

>rereads top

"Oh. Oh, whoops sorry."

I'd like to say lean Village read but I also know better than to effort-clear you for your playstyle.....sigh............

[Chartreuse Penguin]

2 minutes ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

That being said, when I said as much to Scorp, Scorp half took it back, which is a confusing sort of response as I'd expect a Villager to generally be pretty cool with getting lightly Village read but I can't for the life of me see it being an Elim response either, so I'm just shrugging and marking that as a light Villager with asterisk read.

I'd mark that as NAI too - for what it's worth, Scorp also jokingly fake claimed to me in our PM, so this adds up I think? They didn't probe me for a role claim though, understandably so as I'd made clear in the thread that I wont be doing all dat

[Salmon Meerkat]

5 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

I'd mark that as NAI too - for what it's worth, Scorp also jokingly fake claimed to me in our PM, so this adds up I think? They didn't probe me for a role claim though, understandably so as I'd made clear in the thread that I wont be doing all dat

Yeah - I think I'm largely influenced by how high-temperature an Elim phish is, compared to a standard role phish. I'm ok with my light reads for now since there's a lot of players to narrow down but have to commit - probably by D2, or when I'm not waiting to take stronger painkillers - to a deeper dive (but vote analysis will help that.) I'm not comfortable at all with raw effort clearing especially without knowing player meta to balance against that and de facto CC is the worst sort of place to end up.

[Coral Swan]

38 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Disagree with considering Seeker only power role for village. Believe it to be one of the strongest elim roles available. 

For what it's worth, at the time of writing that I assumed Seeker to be an alignment scanner only. Pays to read the rules, go figure. (Not that I didn't, but I just went 'Tyrian, okay, I know that' and didn't give most of the roles a second glance from what I assumed they were.)

40 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Question lack of committal to view on Charcoal Hyena - why no vote?

I think I explained this later- I didn't trust the read my gut was giving nor the reasons my head came up to justify it. I think my view on Hyena now is similar to yours when you said "Reevaluate frequently, gut village". Their most recent posts give me far more of that than their first and I don't have them as 'Spiked' anymore. Getting further in your post I see you've gotten to that explanation.

45 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Strong dislike of not wanting elim reads lynched

Agree to disagree, then. I fully understand how you look at that the way you do, but for me it boiled down to not trusting myself enough to commit, sort of like you said. It's not that I mind specifically being tied to Hyena, Gorilla, Chameleon, etc's flips, it's that I don't know if I want to see their flips in the first place. It's me taking the easy out by voting a Null. Having reread some of the posts I'm definitely more fine with voting a more prominent player, but my opinion remains largely the same.

52 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

I still think the logic is fundamentally flawed. Beyond that, lynching less actives has been discussed to death, and I remain fo the view that it is largely useless.

And I don't  And it has been discussed to the death, and I don't want to rehash that discussion, but I will say that I don't find it useless for the same reasons Meerkat gave for looking at the peripherals.

Sticking with my guns here.

Praise the Ja!

[Chartreuse Penguin]

37 minutes ago, Salmon Meerkat said:

Yeah - I think I'm largely influenced by how high-temperature an Elim phish is, compared to a standard role phish. I'm ok with my light reads for now since there's a lot of players to narrow down but have to commit - probably by D2, or when I'm not waiting to take stronger painkillers - to a deeper dive (but vote analysis will help that.) I'm not comfortable at all with raw effort clearing especially without knowing player meta to balance against that and de facto CC is the worst sort of place to end up.

Tbh my biggest holdback when it comes to anon games is players losing their distinctive quality. In non-anon games if someone says something odd in one of their posts, I’m able to retain this info and I begin to subconsciously be wary of the player for the rest of the game, which really helps form reads in both the short and long term, whereas in anon games if someone says something suspicious I’m probably gonna read it once and then forget about it. Notably this wasn’t a problem in my first ever anon game as the accounts were all brand new to me and so it was kind of a clean slate. I’ve also noticed I tend to tunnel a bit more in anon games for this exact reason, because once I latch onto a target no other player stands out to me unless I make a very very conscious effort to hyperanalyse someone, if that makes any sense. 
gotta work on it fr

[Salmon Meerkat]

16 minutes ago, Coral Swan said:

And I don't  And it has been discussed to the death, and I don't want to rehash that discussion, but I will say that I don't find it useless for the same reasons Meerkat gave for looking at the peripherals.

yes n no

its been discussed to death yes but im just gonna rehash very briefly my view/position ig 

-CC bad. CC only works if u give sufficient runway because genuine inactives dgaf - runway matters b/c u hope to bait teammates into defending inactive teammates but is a gamble otherwise CC bad b/c sucks up bandwidth + no pressure on live/extant teammates, easy way for people to appear productive/hide

-feels like my views on this have been shaped by the past (yes) but also more recent experiences of high inactivity elim teams/high passivity elim teams e.g. LG73 (? - Sart's game i forget the number) where u just have to go get a stick n poke or u will lynch all the actives n not find anyone

-keep lynch options broadly open + apply pressure broadly, early on is not the time to consolidate trains - i think we've done this to death by now we have a lovely array of lynch options and i would like 2 see more commitment/response/investment ig

-i don't know if i mean peripherals in the same sense u do. i think that true inactives will be washed out by the filter + we will see the difference due to an existing filter, so if someone is obviously filter dodging, this could be a bad sign. but i do think there are lower activity elims, im not having an easy time sifting through the high activity stuff as i do have bad gut but i also understand some explanations or are at least moderately sympathetic to them e.g. im really not thrilled by swan's not voting top suspicion thing and my gut dislikes it the more i look at it and i also feel it weird beagle got @ for what seems like an ok point & i get that this has just hit the solid 'do u buy it or not' stage but at the same time i have gotten @ many times for being indecisive n im just fundamentally at core a doubter as a person/player its how i roll so i get being indecisive and torn so...idk. i really dk and i suppose this means i too are feeling the pull in two directions

-but really my point is more about the blending elims - not necessarily lower activity but below radar/attention dodging. who doesn't want to say risky things. who is trying to project i am helpful villager hear me roar without doing anything too noisy. i would argue zebra hasn't been low activity as i understand it but zebra has been avoiding attention.

-tbh my shift off cham is partly b/c my gut read of the low temperature is that no elim is under threat and i feel as though if that is true that cham is no elim then best place for elims to be is elsewhere but also b/c i think we know from the CC point above we have to flush elims n sometimes its more helpful to try to flush people blending in / being performative & see who shows up to defend them /shrug

[Pearl Chameleon]

In the interest of keeping things clear, here is the current vote count:

• (2) Pearl Chameleon: Scarlet Octopus, Mauve Crocodile,
• (2) Torquoise Gorilla: Violet Axlotlt, Salmon Meerkat,
• (1) Charcoal Hyena: Chartreuse Penguin, 
• (1) Amethyst Scorpion: Charcoal Hyena,
• (1) Scarlet Octopus: Amber Vulture, 
• (1) Melon Dingo: Coral Swan, 
• (1) Coral Swan: Oxblood Beagle, 
• (1) Violet Axlotl: Onyx Flamingo, 
• (1) Mauve Crocodile: Fuchsia Ostrich, 

There are about 9 hours left in the turn, and we have two tied vote trains. One of them is on myself, and the other is on a player I have not been able to form a solid opinion on thus far. The rest of the 7 votes placed so far are each on a separate player. I do not have any idea what to make of this. I think I am going to place my vote (for now) on Coral Swan. As of right now, they are the only player that I suspect of the ones that have votes on them. Part of me still is unwilling to completely trust Iguana, but they do not have any votes on them so that exe is unviable. I am not voting on Gorilla because I am not suspicious of him. I do not trust him either, but that is no reason to condemn him right now. However, when the time comes for the end of the turn, I hope all of you will understand if I vote in self-preservation. I am the only player I can be certain that is a villager, and I would not want to sacrifice myself in a tie if it turns out Gorilla or Swan is truly a Spiked.

[Coral Swan]

2 minutes ago, Pearl Chameleon said:

There are about 9 hours left in the turn, and we have two tied vote trains. One of them is on myself, and the other is on a player I have not been able to form a solid opinion on thus far. The rest of the 7 votes placed so far are each on a separate player. I do not have any idea what to make of this. I think I am going to place my vote (for now) on Coral Swan. As of right now, they are the only player that I suspect of the ones that have votes on them. Part of me still is unwilling to completely trust Iguana, but they do not have any votes on them so that exe is unviable. I am not voting on Gorilla because I am not suspicious of him. I do not trust him either, but that is no reason to condemn him right now. However, when the time comes for the end of the turn, I hope all of you will understand if I vote in self-preservation. I am the only player I can be certain that is a villager, and I would not want to sacrifice myself in a tie if it turns out Gorilla or Swan is truly a Spiked.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe you've mentioned any suspicions on me before? Or in this post? What about me are you suspicious of?

Voting me creates a fun mindgame because if the votes stay as they are right now until EoD, I'll vote you in self pres so that you have to vote Gorilla in self pres. Though the chance of the votes staying as they are is minimal.

This paragraph gives me bad vibes in the sense of saying a lot but ultimately saying very little, though I am biased due to the red name in the middle.

Praise the Ja!

[Turquoise Gorilla]

10 minutes ago, Pearl Chameleon said:

Torquoise

Hehe

[Pearl Chameleon]

14 minutes ago, Coral Swan said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe you've mentioned any suspicions on me before? Or in this post? What about me are you suspicious of?

Voting me creates a fun mindgame because if the votes stay as they are right now until EoD, I'll vote you in self pres so that you have to vote Gorilla in self pres. Though the chance of the votes staying as they are is minimal.

This paragraph gives me bad vibes in the sense of saying a lot but ultimately saying very little, though I am biased due to the red name in the middle.

Praise the Ja!

oh mannnn, i completely forgot to actually add the reason for why i was voting you! i knew i forgot something in that post

basically, it's the reason others have given for suspecting you. i don't like that went through all that effort of making a reads list, and despite being called out on this multiple times, are still voting on someone you don't even suspect. it just reads very very fishy to me

9 minutes ago, Turquoise Gorilla said:

Hehe

oof the spelling gremlin strikes again

[Coral Swan]

Just now, Pearl Chameleon said:

basically, it's the reason others have given for suspecting you. i don't like that went through all that effort of making a reads list, and despite being called out on this multiple times, are still voting on someone you don't even suspect. it just reads very very fishy to me

Because I, as an elim, would take the time to craft a completely made-up reads list and not bother to actually stay true to it because obviously no one would think anything of me not voting someone I marked as Spiked! Makes sense to me  Or maybe I made a list and then didn't feel good about it, posted it anyway, and voted elsewhere.

Would you read me as more villagery if I had folded under pressure and relented to the people calling me out? 

Praise the Ja!

[Chartreuse Penguin]

Pearl Chameleon 

[Pearl Chameleon]

2 minutes ago, Coral Swan said:

Because I, as an elim, would take the time to craft a completely made-up reads list and not bother to actually stay true to it because obviously no one would think anything of me not voting someone I marked as Spiked! Makes sense to me  Or maybe I made a list and then didn't feel good about it, posted it anyway, and voted elsewhere.

Would you read me as more villagery if I had folded under pressure and relented to the people calling me out? 

Praise the Ja!

I see that post as more you wanting to look like you are contributing to the game and making reads without wanting to commit to the reads. An elim would know whether or not their elim reads are true or not. And if you have mostly villagers in your elim reads, it could look bad if you vote for them and they flip village. But if you vote on a null player (in your opinion) and they flip village? You can simply claim that you were just trying to weed out the null players and it did not turn out for you. Does that make sense?

And honestly? I think I would read you as more of a villager if you had acquiesced and voted on someone you truly suspect. As it is right now, your insistence on not voting on someone you truly suspect feels like you are trying to hold to your opinion since people have called me out for getting defensive. Perhaps I am simply too paranoid.

5 minutes ago, Chartreuse Penguin said:

Pearl Chameleon 

Care to explain why? It is hard to respond to a vote on oneself that does not have a stated reason for it.

[Saffron Iguana]

14 minutes ago, Turquoise Gorilla said:

Hehe

Hey Torquoise, are you a turtle, because you're almost a tortoise. 

24 minutes ago, Pearl Chameleon said:

There are about 9 hours left in the turn, and we have two tied vote trains. One of them is on myself, and the other is on a player I have not been able to form a solid opinion on thus far.... 

Coral Swan. As of right now, they are the only player that I suspect of the ones that have votes on them. Part of me still is unwilling to completely trust Iguana, but they do not have any votes on them so that exe is unviable

Two votes is hardly a done deal. If you'd be willing to vote for me if you weren't the leading target, I'd rather you do that than vote strategically in self-preservation early. No sense arbitrarily limiting your options just yet. 

Unlike Meerkat, who is in the unfortunate position of not being able to effort clear individuals without looking self congratulatory, I am quite comfortable believing that both they and Vulture are far too committed to analysis to be evil. @Amber Vulture, your post is making strange things happen for mobile users though, I'm sorry to say. I hope your alignment gets confirmed soon so I can lazily rely on that as a cheat sheet summary.