hawkedup

Definitely R and C. Do you think it works better seeing the one lighthouse at the palace first and then at the Front where there is more than one lighthouse, or the other way around? Thanks for the feedback, everybody!

Gotcha, thanks!

With the new altered timeline, it's the same day as Z's first 3 chapters. It's before L's first chapter. This is the battle where General C last has his mind wiped. R and C definitely. I'll try to play up the revelation in Z's second chapter about soul lanterns being physical manifestations of a virus that kills everyone before they turn 40. This is probably just me over correcting since most feedback so far has been critical of lack of physical description. Why? Real question. @Mandamon Thanks for reading!

Hey, guys. I've been doing a lot of tinkering with the format of The Turn of Ages based on your suggestions. I've messed with the timeline so that the book can start out with (at least) 5 Z chapters in a row before introducing some of the city elements of the story, but through Z's POV first. Until then, though... I've noticed is some apathy toward some of the world building elements, so I've been messing around with a possible prologue, which is what I submit to you now. This is not complete, I have enough planned for at least 3 times this, but I'm loath to make a prologue any longer. I also don't want it to overshadow Z's story. Maybe it give it the interlude treatment with multiple parts? I dunno. Do your thing! PS - You don't have to have read the previous submissions to read this, but if you did you might notice R is Agent S's daughter.

It only gets better! Yes, the action does plateau a bit but every single book has something to equal or surpass what you’ve read so far.

As always, I'll take a low priority spot.

That’s one of my favorite parts about it. Seeing the biggest event since the breaking from different parts of the world. Also it’s the culmination of 3 character arcs (Mat, Perrin, and Egwene). Plus everything with Mat is just pure gold.

The "slog" is my favorite part of the series. It doesn't really slog, it's just the story stops being about the Last Battle for a while. I actually really like Book 10 because it not only feels like the deep breath before the storm but because it's FUNNY. That's something these books don't get enough credit for. Not only does every [major] character get an arc that is the equivalent of their own book or series but the books are also fun and humorous at times. Sometimes, though, there isn't any action, and I know a lot of readers don't like that. Not only that but books 11-14 are basically one giant climax. That's not something any other series has done. Read New Spring after book 5. I think it works best after book 9 just because 1) that's where it was released and 2) it's a quick and fast paced read and while I love book 10, it isn't exactly action packed.

Just read the other comments... Huh. Hard disagree 1 on there needing to be more. I can see adding a few really tangible details here and there but nothing that increases the word count. Hard disagree 2 on the frame story working against the meat of the piece. I think it works the same way the Kote chapters work in Name of the Wind. Without that frame the meat in the middle isn't as meaty.

Okay. This, was, the, rust! I loved it. There were moments where I felt I was reading a Ray Bradbury story. The amount of character you build in so little words is to be commended, and that transition from talking to her mother to being on the bus? Elegant. I love that MM has her doing menial tasks instead of being some cliche. It's better that way. You give us just the right amount of information. Almost every piece of information is pertinent, and the few pieces of info that are not are interesting enough that they stand out and provide that illusion of more iceberg underneath that Brandon always talks about. With one good revision I think you could submit this. - Tighten up some small things here and there. (If you want to share it with me on Google Docs I'll jump in and do a red pen slash on it but no pressure.) - "Even though I was afraid to admit it, I did believe back then. Unfortunately, as I grew, my faith in Mother diminished." I think this could be cut or cut down significantly and it would make the transition after smoother. - The opening and closing are well written, almost poetic, but it took me a couple reads to actually figure out what was happening. They lack the immediacy of the rest of the story. - Maybe work in some five senses adjectives better. That's it. Best thing I've read from you so far and gives me a new appreciation for your past pieces. Big thumbs up!

Yes, this is much more in line with the quality that I have come to expect from you. Excellent improvements overall! The only change I don't like: - In the first draft you started by showing us an initial encounter that was designed to show us that R is a badass. It didn't really work because 1) you used the same monster from the first chapter and 2) she dispatched it too easily. Based on the feedback for the last draft, I can see why you cut it. But. With the changes to this new draft, I think you need that initial encounter. Something that shows us she is worthy of a reputation before we are told that she already has one later. Does that make sense? 3 - Confused. By now as part of her job she should have already spoken to everyone in the camp and explained to them what she needed out of them. I have nothing against her trying to be friendly with them, though. 5 - "part of the country where the technology was centuries behind and social norms" I don't buy CENTURIES behind. Years. Even decades, but centuries? No. - "Those weren’t the kind of jobs that paid for Enhancement batteries..." Nice foreshadowing! 6 - "R took the weapon and quickly disassembled it, pulling off the frame, removing the revolving chamber and unhooking the string from the arms." This is great. I was really confused by the weapons but this is the perfect way to show them to us without simply info dumping a description. - Is she using her battery every time she does something like an x-ray or is that stuff powered separately? 7 - "danger-klaxons" made me go huh? - "straight-bladed chokutō" Nice, specific detail. - "made a surgical scalpel look like a butter knife" I like this. Takes two cliches and combines them into something fresher. - "fighting stance" Be more specific. - "My parents? D? Or was it one of the Families outside of NA?” Woah. Why is she revealing all this info? - He doesn't strike me as the type of person who would blush/flush over something like this. I'd cut. 8 - The punch took me by surprise! - “Eat science, you feather-hatted son of a slontze...” This falls really flat for me. I'd cut. 9 - Everything about the tech flows so much more naturally this time around. I'm not jolted out of the story every time I learn something new. Kudos! - Even though an entire page has passed since the punch, I don't feel the flow was interrupted. - Confused. If she has fallen head over heels into a pit and hasn't gotten up yet the logistics of going for her bows is weird. - Also, I'm not sure I buy that he disarmed her in the time it took her to fall back after the punch. I know he's supposed to be good, but I'm assuming her bows are locked into place. And it's not like she stumbled around before falling backwards. 10 - He's not really missing his mark, though, right? He's missing on purpose? - I'm starting to lose the immediacy of the scene a bit here, especially after she tells him to follow her. 11 - "bucket of ice water over her head" This makes me wonder if there is social media in this world. - "JT’s ten-year-old daughter had died in those flames, and the city-folk Confederates had rejoiced, thinking that it would sap all the fight from him." This is good backstory but I think the line that follows (and after) is much stronger without it. I'd cut. 13 - "creepy city tech" Oooh. I like this! Excellent world/character building. 14 - "like she had a whole parade of ants beneath her shirt" Cool simile! 15 - "You’re gonna make Channels outta them.” Oh rust, son! I love this. Especially since the dragon thing seemed so background last draft. Awesome! - I just noticed nobody has Ancient Greek sounding names. I think this is a missed opportunity. 16 - "I don’t suppose any of them mentioned that the White Viper was two people?" I like this. Good lead in. 19 - The chapter is so strong that it feels like it fizzles first with the bit of back and forth negotiation (stuff we've already covered) and then a full page of R's internal thought process.

@Robinski Thanks for that link! I’ve listened to every WE multiple times now (some many times) and seen all Brandon’s lectures at least twice. A new podcast would be welcome!

They are my own creations. I actually have an idea for a bigger story in the same vein and this was kinda a test run. The twins originally come from that other story. Good catch, thank you! Another good catch, thank you! Yes you are close. In earlier drafts I made the message very clear, but I muddied it in the last two drafts intentionally because I felt like it was detracting from the intention of the story, which was to make the reader as uncomfortable as possible. I thought having a clear message that the reader could latch to and either agree with or disagree with would provide too much comfort. Thanks for reading and providing feedback!

Short story. Standalone.

Thanks for reading and responding!

I don't know if any of you have ever heard of an author by the name of Ian Irvine, but he's one of my favorites, and his first book Shadow on the Glass is free on Amazon Kindle (at least in the US) right now. He's up there with Jordan and Sanderson for me (though a completely different style). Check it out if you're looking for something to read!

I have a resub I'd like to run by the group, but give me lowest priority, please.

1) - "The monster looked as though the gods had fashioned it from the pure silver and then breathed life into it." There's a drop word here, but I love this. - Your description of the monster is functional, but I kinda feel like A after I read it. She thinks about how past descriptions don't do it justice and with your description I don't get the "sheer magnificence" of the monster. - I'd also like some more build up. I've been watching a lot of kaiju movies lately and one of the things that really makes those movies work is that we see the effects of the monster before the monster itself and I think that might help here. 2) - It's not so much that A looks away when the harpoon gun fires that bothers me as I think what happens next would be more poignant if she (and therefore the reader) sees it with her own eyes. 3/4) - Is it just me or is the ship not being affected enough by what is happening? Aren't they tethered to the monster? How can anyone be standing unaided or take time to write death runes on someone's eyes (that is a good in world detail, though). - "After a moment of fumbling, she pivoted the gun and fired." It it really that easy? 5) - Is the tension really over that quickly? - I hope T reacts more to the traitor run than this. 6) - Oops. I was under the impression that the O was the sea creature this whole time. Did I miss something? - "The oil needs to be decanted into a brass lantern." This is great. So specific and real. And it's nice to see something other than wine decanted. 7/8) - The time jumps are a bit jarring. - I find myself wanting to skim. Changing focus this late in the short story feels more like losing focus. I feel like the story I signed up for has been told and now I'm getting something akin to a sequel or epilogue. - Luckily, this will be an easy fix. Prescription: Go back to part one and make it known right away that this is the story and the sea monster is just the first obstacle. 9) - “Because I’m coming with you.” I like this curve ball a lot. - Um. Confused. Did they already do the spell? I'm assuming so since we have a TAR thing going. Again, why did we skip an important moment? 10) - It doesn't seem like A going with K was as big of a deal as I thought. It just... is. 11) - I'm forcing myself not to skim. At this point you've made some (probably unconscious) promises to the reader and they aren't good ones. 1) No matter what is about to happen I know it will probably work out with little tension and 2) you'll probably time jump over the good stuff. 13) - "His arms stretched and flexed in places where humans had no joints, and more tentacle-like limbs extruded themselves from his torso. His facial features pinched inward, nose and mouth drawing out into a proboscis." Nice! Creepy. - This information about the O should've been given to us way sooner. 14) - "dreamstuff" This word pulled me out of the narrative completely. - Are they in any actual danger? Is this like TAR in Wheel of Time where you can be hurt or killed? I don't know enough to know if I should worry. 15) - I'm disappointed by this resolution. There's so much potential here for some real drama and mind stormery but it just doesn't come through. I never felt like the characters were ever in any real danger, and I'm wondering what all the build up was for. 17) - So I'm left feeling unfulfilled. It reminds me of the time I tried to read a collection of cozy mysteries. Overall: Once again it seems like you have all the big plot points down and the actual structure of the story is as always spot on. There's even some good character building, but it's lacking payoff both character and plot wise. A lot of this stems from a lack of tension. I never really feel like anyone is in real danger and nothing significant really seems to happen to any of the characters--barring a single event and that was T's traitor rune. Also some of the moments you build up to are skimmed or outright skipped. The slaying of the monster and the reunion between A and K for example. I think the first thing you should look at is where you give us important information and how it's given. Right now the two biggest pieces of information are: In Part 1 it's why A is searching for the sea monster. This isn't given to us until page 10 if I remember correctly. And in Part 2 it's information about the O, which doesn't come until page 13, AFTER we have already met the O. Your writing is clean and concise. A lot of potential here, but it feels the outline of a much larger story.

The page numbers correspond with your file so 3 = 1 and so forth. 3/1 - The Writing Excuses cast and Stephen King have forever biased me against the word "finally". To see a book start with it, I instantly doubt the author. Most readers won't have watched 50 hours of Brandon Sanderson lectures online, though, but I hear editors hate the word, too. - I like the name M. Haven't seen it before. Simple. Elegant. - Redundant. Within half a page you tell us the same thing 3 different times: a] she plodded in uneven steps down the snowy bank between looming, half-seen trees b] she picked her way slowly down through the woods c] she descended the forty-degree bank - These could be combined into something much stronger. - "conscious of putting a strain on her reconstructed leg, even though it felt totally normal" - I like this. It's a good way to tell us a lot about the character with very few words so when we start learning more about her we have, ahem, a better leg to stand on. - "but they didn’t do her toes any good" - Why would they? No warming socks? - "against her better judgement" - I see you shooting for a Douglas Adams moment here and it really almost works, but it doesn't really click unless this descent is completely involuntary. - "its bark crinkled under her gloves" - Cool world building. 4/2 - "spectral fruit trees, outlined by the light from the house" - Confused. Is there light coming from the trees themselves or are they just being illuminated by light from the house? - "Kodak" - Earth tech. - "whispered to her in the voice of her handset" - Confused. Does she have on an ear piece or is it whispering to her through the case from her pocket? - "But we’re gonna take you down." - Clear concise mission statement and direction early. Good. - When did she unfocus? - Confused. First you say she can only see the black fence but then: "Its lighted top floor windows glowed gold in the darkness, beckoning to her out of her wintry hell. Even from here, she could see a grey-haired man with a glass in his hand..." - Page ends with a pretty significant info dump. It doesn't work for me for a couple reasons. 1] Most of this could've easily been shown to us through her action. 2] And I really don't like meeting characters in a flashback like this. I feel like it halts the narrative and lessens the actual character introduction. 5/3 - Redundant. When the branch gets her, she hisses (I'm assuming this is the type of hiss where you suck in air through your teeth otherwise her breath catching later doesn't make sense) and then she sucks in chill air. And then her breath catches only to be expelled all at once. I'm sitting here trying to imagine it in my head and I get the hiss and I get the exhale but the rest doesn't feel natural. Part of this is because when I think of breath catching, I think of a big moment or reveal. - "She storming hated Canada" - Stronger as a new paragraph. - "breath caught again" - This time it actually works because it's an extremely emotional moment for her. - The emotional moment is misplaced, though, and I don't like that it happens to set off yet another block of infodumping. I get that this is sequel so I'm holding out that this information will be important in this chapter. If not, I wouldn't put it so early in the narrative. 6/4 - Awkward. The part about the wolves feels really disjointed, primarily because I think the quick flashback interrupts the tension rather than heightening it, which I think is what you were going for. - Why doesn't she have a weapon? This seems like an oversight. - I'm starting to lose the strain of the narrative. We keep getting away from the tension of the moment. - "Zapping-the-storm out of android operating systems since 2043." - I love this, though it's diluted by the thoughts around it. To be continued...

I've mostly written shorter fiction. Short stories to novellas. I've never FINISHED anything longer than 50k words. I've written 100k+ on a few different projects but this is the first time I've moved into 3.0 with any confidence of pressing forward. This is by far the longest I've stuck with a single project. For all intents and purposes, this is my first novel. I think that's why I want to test out so many things all at once. I'm trying to really shoot for publication down the line. I'm aware that my first novel won't be picked up, but I'm hoping to make a name for myself as someone who produces consistently and gets better with each book. God, I hope so. I had a false start 2.0 and the regular 2.0. with this story. In the end it feels almost like wasted time since I'm still struggling with some fundamental issues that should be ironed out by now.

I was thinking that knowing everyone's drafting process might help me when reading and providing feedback. Mine's pretty straight forward but overly time consuming. 1. Outline Draft - Extensive bullet point outline listing every important story and character scene in the story. 2. Rough Draft - Using 1.0 as a loose guideline, pants out about 100k words in as little time as possible even though you should be taking your time. Get further and further away from the outline until the entire draft is deus ex machina and plot devices to fill in the holes you dug yourself into. --- Throw 2.0 into a trash folder and never look at it again. 3. Character and Structure Draft (this is the one I'm submitting) - Rewrite the book from the beginning but try to make it halfway readable this time. Now having done it completely wrong, return to a revised outline. Still hate it but acknowledge the fact that it is significantly better than 2.0 so you might as well keep going. 4. Five Senses Draft - Add in all the details you were too lazy to put in 3.0. Turn excess tell into show. 5. Polish - Make the words all pretty and such. Dialogue actually needs dialogue tags. Adverbs are not always your friend. Sprinkle in some foreshadowing so it looks like you knew what you were doing from the beginning. What's yours?

Okay? Hairs split. Cool. No less shark jumpy, though.

I hear you, man! Thanks for the response and the links. I’ve done a lot of research on this before but haven’t seen that particularly sight before and it looks pretty extensive. Once I’m more confident in the characters and the world, I’d love to really take the subject and dig into it with you.

I'm trying not to spell stuff the characters take for granted out too too much because I'm building to a "the truth was hidden in plain sight all along" moment, but I do take your point. I thought Z's second chapter clarified what the turn of age actually is, but I'll make a note for the next draft to see if I can't bring the reader in on the know a bit better. I'm also hoping readers recognize the "turn of age" as particularly important and pick up on the hints since it's the title of the book. Sometimes you just gotta spell it out, though, right? Fair enough. It was supposed to show that J thinks in modern terms when it comes to the department where they are hired privately most of the time. I'll see if I can make this come across more and make the dialogue flow better. I get that. The first draft was a single through POV, but I got bored writing it. Multiplee POVs is just more fun to write. Any advice to help make multiple POVs work (none will be cut) would be super helpful! M is only the second non-white character who has had her skin tone called out. 90% of the characters are Hispanic or Indigenous. The characters only notice skin color in passing and only if its a tone that's particularly out of the norm. It's brown default. I actually have a plan when it comes to describing skin tone and other racial features but after the backlash I got for just using "honey colored" in my first submission I'm not going to implement it until the next draft. I want to take stuff like white default and flip it on its head, but I also know this group is... sensitive about these things. So I'm just focusing on story and character and pacing and the like this draft. I'll probably just remove all references to race, skin and skin tone entirely in submissions going forward. True. Just someone who has been extremely lonely for years and who knows he will die alone in less than a year. J is a very minor character. He's also really not all that fat. E just hates him and so emphasizes his "flaws" more. E himself is not much skinnier than J but he only thinks of it as his "softening" middle. To contrast: Z's Papa is fat, but she doesn't consider it a character flaw and so it isn't mentioned in her POV.

Yes, but they don't know this yet. It's a fake. Once someone hits the turn of age (usually around the age of 35-40) they then proceed to age at an extremely accelerated pace. Average lifespan after hitting the turn is about 18 months (if the person is lucky enough to die of old age). She's standing/posing in such a way as to specifically draw his gaze. Each department has its own director. He knows. This is a slip of the tongue that E uses as an opportunity to be cheeky. Yes. This is as close to insubordination as E has ever come. It's the (his) equivalent of telling your cremhole boss to storm off before quitting and walking out with both middle fingers in the air. I'm not a fan of the kiss either. I wrote it 10 different ways and just picked the one that bothered me least. Thinking it might be better to cut it and move it to a future chapter when the characters are more familiar to us. No need to apologize. I prefer harshness and genuine feedback to "I liked it!" which was 99% of the feedback I got before joining this group. Thanks for reading, guys! This is officially the end of all the primary POV introductions. The plan is for Z to have every odd numbered chapter and 50% of the novel's POVs. The other characters will share the other half of the book, each getting between 5-15% of remaining POVs.