Elbereth
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Everything posted by Elbereth
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Well, now you might be unsaveable, Elodin. And... true, the information aspect is a good one. We will learn a lot more from lynching him than any other candidate. So... I may not vote, this cycle. I'm not comfortable with voting for Elodin, but I don't have any better candidate, and it would net us a lot of information. So unless I find someone better (which will depend on how much time I have to go back over the thread, which is now looking rather limited), I'll abstain.
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Given that Deathclutch was a Dreamwalker and he died to a Wolfbrother kill, I'd guess it has to be put in.
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Sure, but that doesn't mean I can't make a point by voting on someone else. And hey, I'm an optimist. It could happen. There's still a couple of hours left. Plenty of time for the lynch to swing onto someone else, if enough people are around. Don't give up until you're dead.
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Hmph. Fine. Hellscythe. There goes that lead. (Not that he couldn't still be a Darkfriend. But nothing in his response particularly indicated that to me, so I no longer have any basis for suspicion there.) I'll try to figure out who I want to vote for soon. Probably not Elodin, though. Feels too easy.
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I don't agree. There hasn't been anything like a bandwagon on HS. Since I posted to vote for him, there have been two votes. One of which was Elodin, which I don't count given that he's basically saving his own skin. So that's one vote, that (I don't think but I'm not at all sure on this point) wasn't even on Elodin in the first place. So... not exactly the situation I'm looking for with Darkfriends. Hael: Yes. Yes, I did. Oops.
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Correction: In half an hour or so... if my ride decides not to be late. Unfortunately, they did not make that decision. >>Response to HS, not having read the rest of the thread after his post (since I typed it up in the car and I want to get it out there): Ugh. Now I don't know what to think. On the one hand, there are still inconsistencies I could point out (you've played with him three times, one of which it was DC during the time that he was alive, so effectively only twice - which is a bit small to get sweeping general statements like "I'm always suspicious of his playstyle"; he was only lynched once in the three times you played with him, etc.), but on the other hand your response feels very genuine. (That said, genuine doesn't necessarily imply not evil - that could be entirely true as well as being a wonderful excuse for not voting for Sart.) Maill, I don't suppose you can verify? But... I still think HS is more likely to be an eliminator than Elodin, even though I think it's entirely possible that neither are. So my vote still stays, I think. Sorry. Reading through the rest of the thread now. EDIT: Just realized there's plenty of time left in the cycle. Oops. EDIT: Fixed what Hael and HS so kindly pointed out.
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Okay, sure. I can understand that reasoning, although I'm not sure I agree so much as to change my Mayoral vote. Just the Corruption thing on its own wasn't strong enough, in my opinion, which is why I pointed it out. Regarding Elodin - Unlike last cycle, there has been no push whatsoever to move the lynch away from Elodin. I provided a wonderful reason to bandwagon on HS, and yet almost no one has shifted to him. Which indicates to me that despite my suspicion of him, Elodin seems much more likely to be innocent than HS. I really don't care all that much what his role is. If we make certain roles or situations immune to the lynch, that's taking away the whole point of the lynch. A claim (>>) should not be stopping you from lynching someone unless you have reason to believe that claim (and reason to believe that as a result he's innocent). Neither of these things are true, as far as I'm aware. So my vote stays. HS, I see that you've responded. I'll reply when I get home (in half an hour or so), since I don't have any more time right now.
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Thanks, Seonid. I was going to change that but forgot by the time I was finished going through a large chunk of three different games. >> Elodin. I'll go back and edit the relevant post later when I have time to find it. Bugsy - even when we're almost certainly going to vote for a new Mayor tomorrow if we don't elect a new one today? Two nights isn't all that long in my view, and I'm fine with keeping Lopen for another day. (Obviously, I don't think Meta should be made Mayor, but that's my personal opinion and separate from the question of whether we should have a new Mayor. Which I would be okay with, but I also would be fine with leaving Lopen alone for another day.) Plus, I'm not sure why Fain would want to convert a Mayor so badly? Mayors are trusted (ish), sure, but they also have a lot of attention on them, so... there are pros and cons.
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Oh, one other thing I forgot to say - Meta, sorry. But your post didn't make anything clearer for me. I'm well aware that you go aggressive to test reactions. That's not why I have a problem. It's that... agh. I don't know how to explain it. You just feel different. And that could be because of RL. It could be because you're just playing differently than normal. It could just be me. But it doesn't feel right. (Thing is, if you are evil, I'm really unsure why I'm catching it now when in MR12 I was literally your strongest supporter. So that makes me more uncertain about this feeling about you. But it's there, so... I don't know. Maybe I've just gotten better at the game since MR12? I guess?) Sorry for not being able to explain myself better. Since this is entirely gut, I won't be pushing it anymore or voting without having something I can point to and say "that is why Meta's evil", but I do have gut suspicion on you and it doesn't look like it's going anywhere anytime soon.
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Really? Let’s see here. You’ve played three games with Sart: MR9 (as Deathclutch), MR10, and AG2. MR9 was your first game, and you never even mentioned Sart until he was killed. MR10 he was lynched D1... and yet you never voted on him or even mentioned him. And then in AG2, you referenced him four times. Here, here, here, here. The only post where you actually talk about him at all (the third) you put him in the could-go-either-way category (although you do say you're leaning bad). That is it. So... you do not usually suspect Sart because of his awkward playstyle. You have never voted for him, Day 1 or any other time. Hellscythe. I'm also not very satisfied with Gunshy's explanation, but my vote will stay on HS unless I receive a plausible explanation from him. I can't really think of anything, so that seems somewhat unlikely. EDIT: I'm on a laptop for once so it may take a bit to figure out the formatting for the links. EDIT 2: Got it. EDIT 3: Size, which I couldn't figure out how to fix on desktop. Also, I hate reformatting desktop-made posts not on desktop. That was a pain.
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Right. Young Bard - Honestly, as I read through his posts, I really don't see much to be suspicious of. He explained his switching votes adequately here, in my opinion. This and two posts after it are the relevant votes. I can see how that would be suspicious, but really? I don't think an eliminator would be that obvious with bandwagoning. I could kind of see it if he was panicked enough, which is possible given Sart was Forsaken and also an experienced player, but... I don't read it that way, really. I think Elodin is a much stronger candidate. Speaking of Elodin: I'm definitely willing to believe he's an eliminator. I can see his posts being from a village perspective... but I can also easily see them being from an eliminator perspective, which I can't do as much with Bard. With the exception of his aggression at Wilson (which I don't really find innocent or suspicious, just... weird), he's done a lot of following others' opinions (here, here) without much else. I am inclined to believe his claim of Dreamwalker because he implied it in this post back on D1. As others have brought up, he voted Sart and then immediately took it off when Seonid brought up that he was bandwagoning. It could be that at this point in the cycle Sart had said he should be given up on, but he still took advantage of the opportunity to retract when Seonid gave it to him. This is obviously not the only thing that could have happened, but it's certainly possible. Also, votes on Strawman and then goes quiet without retracting for the rest of the cycle while that mess is sorted out. Everything else reads neutral for quite a while. Then his post about Gunshy made me think for a moment: Elodin is assuming that Gunshy read past games. I don't really view that as a valid assumption. So that leads me to conclude he's maybe trying to rescue his teammate, yes, as has been pointed out. It also makes me think that maybe Gunsy has read past games. And Elodin knows that. Because they've discussed it in the evil doc. Both are solid possibilities. The only thing that really confuses me is your aggressiveness towards Wilson, as I said. I don't really see that from an eliminator mindset, but I also don't really see it from a village mindset? So... I don't know. In general, though, I can definitely see Elodin as an eliminator, and unless I see particularly good evidence to the contrary I'll keep that vote there. Really quickly, Straw - Obviously, claimed (and somewhat confirmed) scanner. I don't see any of his behavior so far to be particularly suspicious for him, and I don't think we should lynch/kill him for a couple of cycles. May go over Gunshy in the morning. For now, I need sleep. Oh, and Wilson - the advantage to a Channeler claiming could be that at least we'd learn whether there's an eliminator Whitecloak. Which would be nice to know. Edited to retract vote.
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Hey, only I read MR9 (the currently running game) before I started! Oh, and maybe QF9 at some point. I have started LG3 now, though. I'm very sad that I have nowhere to comment on it... Anyway. Well. Trembling fear isn't right, but she's definitely not always warm and fuzzy... You'd better not. I agree that your aggression is not making you look any better, Elodin. I also agree that it's not necessarily a bad change from your normal playstyle (although I think you're being a bit too insistent that Wilson must be evil - oh, she can't be a Darkfriend now? Then she must be Padan Fain!). So, who all has come under suspicion today? Elodin. Young Bard. Gunshy. Am I missing anyone? I'm about to go back through posts. I'm also slightly suspicious of HS, but that could just be my perspective given our interactions, so I'd like others' thoughts on that. This. Exactly. I keep expecting some reasoning to clear up why Meta did this or acted like this and it's just not there. That's what's bugging me. For those who have talked with me in recent docs, he's not being a "clear point" like usual. Regarding Mayor votes, I agree that they need to happen. Not sure that we should keep the same Mayor, but... hmm. I think we didn't get to see him do anything with it D1 (because everyone assumed that I was going to be Mayor for basically the whole day - which is actually kind of weird to me, that no one ever realized how close it was. Hmm, maybe I'll go back and look at that), so I'd be okay with leaving Lopen as Mayor for another cycle (particularly as the other current candidate is Bard, who I'm not sure would be the best choice for a Mayor position given how much suspicion has landed on him - I'm not saying specifically that I'm suspicious of him because I haven't gone back and looked at his posts yet). Next cycle we should definitely elect someone new, though. EDIT: Oh, also, Phattemer. That vote's obviously doing nothing. Haven't decided where to put it yet, but I'll definitely try to vote tonight.
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Um. I... don't think we can assume he'll be protected every single night just because he was detained once. And honestly? Him being detained every night as protection wouldn't be so bad, because then at least we'd know he didn't take any actions, and if he is a Dreamwalker it'd keep PMs alive indefinitely while rendering him mostly harmless (if he's an eliminator). And also, all of the discussion has not been about him, just like not all discussion was about Sart D1. There's been plenty of other topics, although I agree he's the focus. There was discussion of Bard. There was discussion of Gunshy. There was mention of me, and Straw. He may predominate, but that doesn't mean nothing else has been mentioned. Okay, I'm going to the beach. Hope nothing else explodes while I'm gone.
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So... essentially, everyone's a villager. Trying to catch eliminators, but at random because there's absolutely no way of knowing who is an eliminator either by scanning or by using the lynch to find suspicions. By itself, without something like an additional win con that you have to survive to win (which would make it a lot like the Hunger Games QF5), or factions, or something, that'd be really boring because there's absolutely no way to catch eliminators except by killing completely at random. Which is no fun. Would there still be an eliminator group kill?
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Essentially, Gamma was supposed to have told her that her action failed, and he forgot until now. So she claimed for nothing, and is understandably irritated as a result.
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Five channelers, each with a Warder as well? That's... really, really unlikely. And there's also the necessity of those channelers that do exist also using their power last night. And none of them (or their Warders) coming forward to counterclaim a roleblock. Look back at last night. Elodin was the primary suggestion for wolf-killing. Don't tell me he didn't have suspicion on him. Well, I'm pretty sure we won't get anywhere if we assume the eliminators were stupid. Because they're in a bad position right now. They need to be reducing numbers as fast as possible, not just sitting back and let the village kill each other. It seems likely that at least one of them has come under suspicion since Sart died. And I seriously doubt they'd have known what would come of it if they hadn't killed. Now, Wilson's suggestion (none of them having actions available to kill) is certainly possible. But deliberately choosing not to kill when they could? That seems unlikely to me. ...Storm it. That's the thing about SE, though. Mislynches and mistakes happen. They happen a lot. You can revise your assumptions about players. Votes can always be retracted. But the way discussion happens is through the lynch, really. So even if you don't distrust someone all that much. Vote on them anyway! That way they can respond to you, and you (and everyone else) can get a better sense of their alignment, hopefully. It's okay if you make a mistake, or if you accuse the wrong person. It happens all the time. You just learn from it, and get better.
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What does how many channelers are out there have anything to do it? We've discussed Elodin making the eliminator kill, and agreed it's a bit less likely since he's so high in suspicion right now. Do you really think the eliminators would target Elodin with their kill? That'd be a terrible idea. And how many Ta'veren do you really think there are? And how likely is it that multiple Ta'veren redirected someone onto Elodin? And yes, I did consider them making no kill at all (EDIT: here). And I think it's much less likely since they're not in a comfortable enough position not to be killing given that they just lost their Forsaken Day 1. So... none of those alternate options are really valid, in my opinion. Yes, but where? Point me to one sig/title that contains either of those phrases. The closest I've found is Wilson being "Brightness Ascendant". Which doesn't exactly convey the same thing. The quotes in her sig are better, but even so I don't think they're quite enough to describe her/Meta as "setting people on edge". EDIT: And reading past games is possible, but definitely not something you should assume. (Plus, neither of them have even played much in recent games, so I'm not sure that you would automatically get the idea that they're scary from reading a past game.)Anyway. I think it's better at this point to wait until Gunshy shows up and explains him(?)self.
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Heh. I believe you share that approach with Nyali, actually. You don't have to make a list if you really don't want to, of course. But- well, say the thing you did mention, her claiming. Why does that make you suspicious?
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Okay, that's good to know. But why is your top suspicion Nyali? That's the important bit you're missing. If you don't provide reasoning there's nothing to defend against and no basis for discussion. So why do you suspect her?
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Neither of those terms have been used in this game at all. Not even sure where "true divinity" is coming from. And Gamma, I asked a couple of questions here and here.
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Ah, got it. Hmm. True. Although in some ways he'd be the best choice, because even if he was caught killing someone by the Thief-Taker, he's already suspected, rather than giving up a member of their team who wasn't suspect at all before then. Depends on how likely they thought he was to be targeted by a Spirit weave (because obviously detainment is chosen during the day when he hadn't accrued nearly as much suspicion).
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Well, I was going to quote several things, but Lopen said almost everything I wanted to say, so I don't have to! Only a couple notes. What does this bolded part mean, exactly? Maybe I'm just not catching the context, but I don't really understand it. If you are claiming Dreamwalker, why would the Darkfriends have known? And I agree with Wilson - knowing someone is a good player is different from knowing them as a scary player. Orlok said the first, Gunshy said the second. I believe I did bring up that possibility, but I honestly think it’s unlikely. They just lost an experienced player who was also their Forsaken. I don’t really think they’re comfortable enough with their situation not to be killing right now. So… why are you saying this in thread? Really, why? If you suspect someone of being a wolf, there’s no reason to say it in thread. Particularly given that Wolfbrother is a village-only role. It just makes that person more likely to be Corrupted by Padan Fain or killed by the Darkfriends. Which we don’t want. Lopen already said basically what I wanted to say, but I will add that in addition to voting on me because of something that you would have done when plenty of other people wouldn't, you're voting on me for meta reasons, basically. There's nothing I can defend myself against. Yes, I'm a fair choice for conversion (although personally I think there are better ones than me, and I will not name them in order to not give Fain ideas). No, I wasn't Corrupted. There's not much else I can say. And that kind of ignores the point of voting: causing discussion. That vote won't. And I'm fairly sure that vote won't lynch me given that there are other much more suspicious candidates right now. So... I feel like that's pointless and just somewhere to put your vote where it's inoffensive but looks like you're participating. Huh. Interesting. So we have Elodin and Bard both as equally valid candidates for the lynch, I think, since both were unable to perform actions. Interesting that two people had already voted on Bard for Mayor...I think I'll go read through both of their posts now. Vote forthcoming when I get back (which may be a while because I might be going down to the beach soon, which is kind of more important (and more fun) than reading through posts).
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Really quick before I have to leave for my internship - the first post could be explained because he's a new player and thus what seems like a minor mess of assumptions and allegations to us might seem much bigger and more confusing to him than us. I agree overall, though, and now I must go. Won't be back until turnover time, ish.
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Because the only roleblock in the game (other than the Whitecloak, which I'm not referring to as RBing but detaining) is the Spirit weave, and if they have a channeler wouldn't it make more sense just to kill Straw instead of roleblocking him? This is what you were referring to, Elodin. As I read it, it's not necessarily talking about a good or evil Whitecloak, just one that wanted to protect you. I can see how you would get an evil Whitecloak out of it, though, so I'm not pressing that point too hard.
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Well, maybe so you could use that argument? And because if you denied it, the Whitecloak might very well come forward and counterclaim, and then you'd almost certainly be lynched. You're assuming the Whitecloak in this scenario would be an eliminator (and the fact that that was your assumption hints to me that your mindset is more of an eliminator one, though that's a rather weak point). A villager who trusted you could have done the same thing. However, I do think it's unlikely either way.
