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Metacognition

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  1. Metacognition
    First, We've had games over holidays before and they never got this bad. The AG started on Christmas. MR4 was running on Thanksgiving last year. LG6 ran over July 4th. Point is, it's been done and there weren't ever problems this bad. On top of that, we all agreed at the beginning of this game that we were okay with it running over Thanksgiving. As such, it's our own fault. Maill gave us options to avoid that if we wanted. Second, this has been a continuous problem the entire game, not a problem from the last day or two. A good portion of people's responses (as you'll see below) have just been "checking in" posts and promises to be more active later. Also, Technically half of this last cycle was on Friday, not Thanksgiving in the first place. Thirdly, as I said, I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh. I'm not blaming any individual or trying to guilt people into discussing. Clanky and I wound up having a bit of a discussion about this before he died. We were talking about the possibility of the Cultists just lurking throughout the game and how easy it would be for them. Since so many other people were doing the same, there were too many possible targets and not enough information to pick out any single one. And it's a philosophy that the Eliminators themselves are perpetuating in everyone; and not just in this game. By killing off the more talkative players, the Eliminators are making it so that no one wants to actually talk, since they know that it just puts a target on their back. And the cycle repeats itself until you have games like this one, where no one is willing to openly discuss, because they want to survive, and nothing gets done towards finding the Eliminators. So, you see, I'm not intending to necessarily blame anyone for it as much as all of us. We all share a part of this situation because this is where the meta has gotten to now. We've put our own survival above the chance of winning. We've allowed the Eliminators to control how the games play out. As I said to Clanky, "If we don't talk and discuss, the Terrori- err, Eliminators win!" It's such an easy tactic to disrupt, but you've got to be willing to actually say something and put yourself out there and on the line! We're now 5 cycles in. No one shouldn't have at least a few ideas on who they think is suspicious! So, I'm sorry if I offended anyone with the above. It wasn't meant to be mean or hurtful. It was meant to be a wake up call. We can still win this. We can steal victory from the Cultists, but we're not going to do so by sitting back and doing nothing anymore. And look at it this way, if everyone is talking and giving ideas and suspicions, then the Eliminators can't just focus on the few who are talking! Being silent might keep you safe, but it won't help you win. Now, onto the main bulk of my post. I'm first going to come out and say, I'm a Soldier. I saved myself during the first cycle and Clanky the second (thus why Clanky and I were working so closely together since then). I was not the one who saved Lopen.... I don't like reveals in thread like this, but I think that the Cultists likely already know and we've made absolutely no progress on finding them without the sharing of information so far, so let's go all in. If someone wants to counter claim me, by all means. Heck, they can do so via PM to someone else and not have to even reveal themselves in thread! Because, even if the rest of you don't believe me, when you kill me and I am revealed to be a villager, at least then you will have found one of the Cultists and can use that to find the rest. Also, please do remember that, until I tried this one last rally, the Cultists basically had this won. They didn't need to go through this elaborate of a ruse. They could've just waited and picked us off without all of this. And finally, Clanky trusted me, which meant no other Soldier had gone to him, claiming to have saved him. So counter claim away, Cultists. Now, I'm going to go through and give a sort of profile/what I've learned about everyone still alive in the game so far. I haven't been pushing people for information, so it's not a lot, but even then, I'm sorry to anyone that I wind up revealing more than they would like. Okay, that's it. I'm done for now. I would go back through and add links to specific sections in thread, but as I said, the entire game is less than double digits. You can go through it yourself! Sorry, I'm worn out. You guys can analyze it all you like and, hopefully please, discuss it. Or discuss something else. I don't care, as long as you're all trying! Then, maybe, we can turn this crazy game around and beat the Cultists yet. I will try to be back to answer any other questions before the end of the Cycle. No guarantees.
  2. Metacognition
    So I had planned to get on before the Cycle ended, but I had to be out and about all day today. I didn't say anything before then because I was curious to see what you'd all do if you didn't have someone constantly try to urge you toward action and you all didn't disappoint. Only 10 posts during the total of yesterday's cycle; 7 of which were not even related to trying to find the Eliminators. I have open PMs with all of you and I only received one PM and it was in regards to a message I sent out the previous cycle. And only one person could be bothered to vote at all. If the Cultists had known, they could've taken over the vote easily (technically, we don't know if they did or not!). If you want to win, this can't continue. We're basically handing the game over to the Cultists guys. I get that yesterday was Thanksgiving and that made things difficult for people to be on, but it's past now, so we're going to try this one more time because I promised Creccio that if she was good that I'd do everything I could to still find the Cultists. I'm going to get some food and then I'm going to go through everything and lay out my thoughts on each person left alive (Lopen's position just got very interesting to me!). What you guys decide to do with it from there will be up to you. I am sorry if this comes off as a bit harsh, but I've never seen this level of inactivity in a game before!
  3. Metacognition
    If the votes in thread are to be believed, then we've got a threeway tie going here guys. Not good. Not good at all. The Cultists can basically kill whomever they want at this point and it wouldn't even be all that suspicious of them! I've talked with (almost) everyone via PM, so we shouldn't be losing anyone to inactivity today, but just doing the bare minimum to survive isn't helping us either! As I've said in a couple different PMs, I'm tempted to just let the Cultists win to prove a point about how badly inactivity and not sharing your thoughts can hurt the Villagers. For my part, I'll be voting for Creccio. I've been suspicious of her since day 1 and a lot of people that I talked to seem to feel the same. I don't think STINK is evil after talking to him in PM. As such, that just leaves Jain as a possible lynch target at this point in time. So unless someone wants to bring up someone else that deserves the lynch, I suggest that you vote for either Creccio or Jain. That way, the Cultists can't take over the vote. And please, please, PLEASE do so by stating who you're voting for in thread! If one of them is a Cultist, then the other Cultists might try to get us to focus on the other and we should look into that now rather than afterward!
  4. Metacognition
    That's a lot of people to lose in one turn, guys! Even if the Soldier can keep this guessing streak up, the Cultists won't have to kill any of us to win at this rate! There are a few people that we really haven't heard from that aren't on the list of inactivity though. People like STINK and Phatt only showed up at the beginning of last cycle and that was it. They didn't even add anything to the discussion. If you're in a PM with either of them, please let us know and if they're talking. If they're not, then that means that our GMs either forgot to add them to the list or that they're only sending in actions. They could be an Eliminator sending in the kill orders. They could also be our mysterious Soldier though, so we really need to hear from them! I'm going to go back through the thread and see if I can't find anything to go off of, but, considering there wasn't a lot of discussion yesterday, could the people who voted please explain why they voted as they did? I'm especially looking at Ekanah for their vote on Ostrich. I don't really see the point since it wasn't like it would make a difference; he was set to die due to inactivity as is. I plan on treating it as if we're going to lose 3 Villagers tomorrow due to inactivity until we learn differently, which means that we're getting really close to losing here already guys! Let's kick this into high gear!
  5. Metacognition
    Quite a lot, actually. We get to see if you were an Eliminator or not first and foremost. This also allows us to take whatever you said previously within the light of your reveal. This is why it is so important that people actually discuss and share information and suspicions in thread. If you were innocent, we can take your suspicions into account as we continue the hunt for the Eliminators. We also get to see the results of the voting. Look at the situation we have right now, with the No Death Votes. It is basically the same thing as a tied vote where no one dies as well. Right now, you and Jain look suspicious because we don't know what the actual results would have been. The fact that there was not a death means that either the votes are meaningless or that they could mean everything. If you had died and turned up innocent, then Jain's vote wouldn't look all that odd. If you turned up as an Eliminator, then his vote would look even more suspicious. So, to recap, here's a list of all the things we get due to the lynch. We get all of this whether it is Day 1 or Day10. This is one of the reasons why I just don't understand people that don't ever want a lynch: We get the lynchee's alignment (most of the time) We get the lynchee's role (some of the time) We get clarity in their motivations We get clarity in their suspicions We get clues into the motivations of others around them We get clarity in their votes We get clarity in the votes of others We get clues to the identities of other trustworthy/suspicious people We get a better understanding of the overall picture What we get with a no lynch: Nothing. Everything is still up in the air. No real trust is formed because you have no clue as to the motivations behind their actions and words.
  6. Metacognition
    Jain's vote still deserves a look at, in that right, but I think that we're barking up the wrong tree. I'd rather that we start looking elsewhere so that we don't get too focused on this issue. So I'm calling everyone who basically just "called in" over the last cycle. Anyone that "just checked in" or "Seen and Spoke" or anything like that. You all waited a cycle to gather information; via the thread and/or PMs. Thus, you should have some information by now, right? We can't wait on you to finally have information later on, right? So I really want to hear from those that were pretty silent the first cycle. STINK, Orlok, BB, Venture, Kaid, Phatt (sort of) and Shallan. If I missed someone, please add them. Come on, guys. We need you. With out your help, we're going to lose. So give us an inkling of what you're thinking by this point. Anything is better than nothing....
  7. Metacognition
    First off, WoM from earlier to answer your question, Jain: Second, then that means we still have a problem with either still misunderstanding what Maill means by a No Death Vote or someone is lying. Both Alv and Jain are claiming that they stated that they just weren't planning on voting. At least that's how I would interpret how each of them put it. And yet, one of them either intentionally or mistakenly wound up voting for a No Death Scenario. Since neither one of them can post exactly what they said, let's try this, a question for both of you: Based on Maill's clarification, do you think that your vote could have been mistaken for a No Death Vote? How? Why?
  8. Metacognition
    Personally, I would like to hear from both of them as well. These are decent reasons, depending on what Maill has to say. I would like to hear more from Orlok as well and Elkanah was fairly quick to follow my reasoning. I am quite falliable after all. QF8 is a perfect example. We shouldn't be wasting this time or tunneling onto just Jain, Alv, and Creccio. We need to start hearing from everyone so that we can either build trust or find additional suspicions. Lopen, I'm still curious as to why you haven't said much of anything. I even called you out as a suspect to me and you've brushed it aside without so much as a whisper that you ever saw it. Why? EDIT: So Alv's vote, as he stated it, likely wasn't the vote for No One. It could still be, depending on Jain's answer though. Jain, we could really use your help in understanding this and your position is the most unclear based on what you said before.
  9. Metacognition
    Is it that time of year already again? Man, things are going to get more confusing fast! Or you could have been asking a superfluous question that you already knew the answer to. Thus why I asked for a more direct definition on how No Death Voting works. We'll just have to wait and see. Jain? Creccio? How did you guys word your PM? Obviously, you can't just copy/paste what you wrote, but did you put it in a manner similar to Alv's or did you clarify that you wanted to see No One die?
  10. Metacognition
    See, to me, that doesn't make sense to be counted as a No Death, IMO. What you're saying you said would be a No Vote, not a No Death. No Death sounds like it would have to very much be specified better than just not voting. Perhaps it's just semantics, but one does not equal the other in my mind. What you said is really no different than not voting at all, like I wound up doing, and you don't see me on the list next to the rest of you. Since the idea of a No Death vote wasn't brought up in thread, I don't think 90% of us knew that it was even possible; which could easily mean that the Cultists asked about it and that's how you guys knew about it. Could we get some clarification here, Maill? What explicitly would count as a No Death vote vs. what would count as a No Vote? EDIT: Also, I'm not very good with codes. It's less that I can't decipher them and more that I'm just lazy about it. Anyone trying to figure out what the Rulo was saying there?
  11. Metacognition
    I don't see how you believe that you were a target of a Soldier, Creccio. Maill has already clarified what happened with the votes: You, Alv, and Jain all voted for a no death (and I don't exactly buy the idea that all of you didn't realize that voting in such a way would cause this type of situation), which was more than enough to be the majority vote. In other words, you got exactly what you wanted via your votes to stop a lynch; a lynch that would've likely targeted you so far. I do want to hear from Jain. He did say that he was likely to vote and then voted for no one to die? Remember, this is a specific vote that would have to be put in for, not just never putting a vote in like what happened with me. I didn't realize that the rollover was so soon! I thought it was later my time. The fact that I was attacked doesn't necessarily mean that I am cleared. I'm sure Hael would have something to say about that. And while I assure you that I am not doing so, I very well could be pulling a WGG. Even if we accept the idea of the Cultists not having a Soldier, I was making a lot of noise yesterday and it was indeed possible that I might draw protection. Now, that's not what happened though, so we can either just chalk it up to the Cultists trying to take out an experienced player (the typical reasoning for why I'm targeted early), or it could have been because I was getting a little too close. I've suspected Alv for awhile now (which I have shared with a few people) and I made a pretty clear case against Creccio in thread. It seems pretty coincidental that those two would be working together to keep us from killing Creccio in the lynch. That's definitely an angle that I plan to look closer at, at least. EDIT: Ninja'd on the first question.
  12. Metacognition
    Merad needs that stew to hide the fact that he's eating all of you!
  13. Metacognition
    Wait, why are those the only two roles that they could have? I'm still not even willing to put it past them to not have a Soldier, since voting is done via PM and we could fool them into protecting someone else on their team and then have the votes be for their Soldier instead.
  14. Metacognition
    Honestly, you're probably my biggest suspect right now then. You ask for people's opinions and reasoning for a Day 1 lynch, but provide no reasoning for your own position. You're preaching peace ever since your very first post (seems a little overboard to me) and yet you claim you want to vote. You constantly ask for everyone else's thoughts while providing little of your own. You try to down play the suspicion I already directed towards you by trying to make it all about the jests of you eating the stew. Considering this is all just based off of what I've only seen in less than a 24h period, sure, that's a lot of conjecture. You could really feel like a Day 1 lynch is just the worst idea of all the possible ideas ever. You could be trying to get other people to talk (though I've been far more than talkative already. I've already put my thoughts out there) by asking questions. You could've not taken my suspicion of you seriously before. That said, it's a lot more than I've heard anyone else coming up with. It's a bit difficult to find out who's a Cultist when everyone is trying to make sure that they don't get singled out as possibly one. My other suspicion is Lopen. I mentioned to him last night that I had a reason, a small reason, but a reason, to be somewhat of suspicious of Alv and he never even mentioned it. To me, it felt like he was trying to sweep it under the rug. I mean, the game hadn't even been going for over 4 hours yet and I had even an inkling of suspicion? How would that even be possible? I figured it would at least spark his curiosity, but nothing. It very well could be that he didn't want me to know how close I was getting. Or, he might not have wanted to come off too eager for information. Or he could've just dismissed it. That's definitely a possibility after all, but it's still something for me to poke and prod at as time goes on. Which is the point. We never have solid evidence unless it's given to us by a seeker/Priest in this case, so we do what we can with what we can find. To me, it feels like a lot of people haven't even started looking yet even. Considering that their communication is tied to the fate of the Seon Holders, I wouldn't be surprised to find that they have one. That said, even if they don't, I don't know if we want them standing out too much either. I could see the Cultists wanting to preserve them for as long as possible if they found a Seon Holder. Personally, I think we should all be playing like our individual survival isn't an issue, but that's just me. As I've said before, there's typically some players who wind up surviving a game by doing absolutely nothing the entire game, so I just don't count survival as that high of a priority. I'd rather see whatever side I'm on at the time win.
  15. Metacognition
    Well I did say that that exact scenario is indeed possible! The list is far from useless though. In every game, at the very beginning, the only ones who know anything are the Eliminators. The Villagers are left to struggle with finding a means to find people suspicious and others that they can trust. In order to do that, we have to start somewhere; even if that somewhere is a dead end. Why? Because it starts the dialogue. It gets people talking and giving you other areas in which to determine whether someone is guilty or innocent. My list already gave a line of questioning for a few different people, which will help us figure out if there is anything to my hypothesis (if they ever get back on). If there isn't anything, then it still got the discussion started. On top of all that, to be fair Alv, you're just paranoid enough to do exactly like you said you did. Not everyone would take the same precaution. At the very least, if they had seen their roles, they could've at least checked in to let us know that we don't have to worry about them being inactive (unlike Phatt, who got "Really Not Seen" next to his name because he didn't check in basically at all yesterday! O.o ). [bold added for emphasis] You mean a suspicion like someone voting for someone in the exact same post that they claim that we shouldn't kill anyone? Cause that looks pretty suspicious to me. As I was saying above and pointed out in a PM already, you really can't get much discussion without the threat of the lynch on Day 1 and that discussion is key. We have to find a starting point to begin trying to work out who is who sometime and it's far better to do so as soon as possible rather than wait for a role (a role, I might add, that we don't even know if we have. You, yourself claim that we shouldn't assume anything about Maill's distribution [a claim I agree with], but you want us to wait on a role that we may or may not have?) to do our job for us. Also, if you look back on past games, Day 1 lynches, when they have occurred, have been far from disastrous. In fact, there have been quite a few times where Day 1 lynches have either killed (Shallan in QF9) or almost killed Eliminators (BB in LG15) and thus given us much needed information! Even when they do wind up hitting an "important" role (I put it in quotes because I don't think any role is more important than any other, up to and including roleless), it's not necessarily a death sentence for the Villagers. Beyond the generalistic benefits of the lynch, in particular for this game considering how voting works, it would behoove us even more to take the lynch into our own hands. Since votes are sent in via PM, the Cultists can override a lynch vote of ours if we give them the chance. Granted, that will make them suspicious, but there are plenty of possible excuses for them to use to deflect some of it and if all they need is another cycle or two, then it might be worth the risk for them. Or, they could use it to take out someone that they suspect is a role that they desperately do not want around/causing them problems. I think we're better off using our resources to our advantage rather than squander them, so I am all for the lynch. In that idea, I really do want to hear from those, like STINK, Orlok, and Elkanah about why they didn't at least speak up.
  16. Metacognition
    Yeah, I agree; probably best if we don't try to be too clever, especially when it comes to voting. We're also likely not going to have a whole lot of turns this game as well. I'd estimate the Cultists to be anywhere from 2-5, with 4 being the most likely number. With 17 players and 2 of them likely dying a cycle, it'll be over in about 6 cycles or so and that's if everyone is active! ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ EDIT: So as to not double post, I created this list based off of who has had the possibility of seeing what their role is in this game and whether they have spoken up. Seen + Spoken obviously means that they've been in thread so far, Seen means that they've were online after the game began, and Not Seen means they haven't been online since the game has started. Now, this is by no means a list of suspicions or anything. Someone who hasn't been online yet could very well have gotten an email notification and thus already know their role. On the other side of the coin, someone that was online after the game had started might have been on another part of the forum and still hasn't checked their PMs. There's no real way to tell at this point. That said, I would like to hear from those that have Seen next to their name on why they haven't spoken up in thread yet. It could be that they've been busy planning in a Doc or a PM with the other Cultists.* 1. Hellscythe: Seen + Spoken 2. IrulelikeSTINK: Seen 3. Alvron: Seen + Spoken 4: Orlok: Seen 5: Bridge Boy: Not Seen 6: Venture Mistborn: Not Seen 7: Metacognition: Seen + Spoken 8: Ostrichofevil: Not Seen 9: Creccio: Seen + Spoken 10: Kaid: Not Seen 11: Bort: Not Seen 12: Phattemer: Really Not Seen 13: Shallan: Not Seen 14: Clanky: Seen + Spoken 15: TheMightyLopen: Seen + Spoken 16: Lightsworn Panda: Not Seen 17: Elkanah: Seen *Speaking of: Mail- I doubt you'll answer, but did the Cultists get a Doc or PM?
  17. Metacognition
    Merad wasn't so sure that Claan's claim that one of the Cultists couldn't be a Jindoeese warrior. After all, during his months freezing in the valley, he had contemplated a few ways in which that might be possible. In either case, it probably wasn't a good idea to remove the option as a possibility so soon. Could Claan be trying to nudge people towards not suspecting a role that he knew the Cultists had, by being one himself? He'd have to keep an eye on him. It might be in his best interests to finish off these Cultists. After all, they might actually try to kill him! _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ EDIT: Ratel makes a very good point, but the ones that are most likely to change their vote from what they state in thread will be the Cultists. Still, we need to be aware of this from the beginning or else, like with LG15a, we're likely to make mistakes that cost us the game.
  18. Metacognition
    Merad eyed Ratel as they dug the impromptu grave. If the other man wasn't there, he would've cut off a chunk of Haelbare to add some much needed flavor to his stew. Instead, he'd have to sprinkle in the last of his jerky and hope that he'd get a chance to dig up either Mai or Haelbare later. Merad wasn't sure what to think of these Cultists. On one hand, they were killing off his meals, which meant that the meat might spoil. On the other hand, it was plenty cold outside and burying the bodies in the snow worked just about as well as any rudimentary freezer would. At least they weren't trying to actually eat any of them. They were his meat! ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Okay, so we'd better get the ball rolling here. I'm sure most of you are aware of this, but we really do need to be talking in thread. By relying on PMs, we're just giving the Cultists a way to divide us up and take care of us one by one. PMs aren't really all that helpful for us until there's at least some trust already built up. I don't have any brilliant plans or anything to help us find the Cultists at this time, but I'll be thinking about it during dinner andn I'll be back afterwards and we'll see what's up by then. Remember everyone, it's a QF, so our time is short. We need everyone to check in as soon as they can to give us at least something to go off of!
  19. Metacognition
    Given reprieve from the storm, Merad scanned the room; picking out those that seemed like they would be "choice" meals. Then the door burst open again and something new tumbled in. With the flurry around it, Merad couldn't see it clearly. Half of it blended into the snow and half of it didn't. It seemed to be made of snow and shadows. The one thing that was clear though, was that it was far too hairy to be human. "Bleh," he thought. "No good meat on that thing!" He went back to surveying the room for his first meal....
  20. Metacognition
    It was late into the afternoon by the time Merad neared the outpost. There was a storm brewing on the horizon and he had to run to stay ahead of it. He almost made it. By the time he burst through the door and threw it shut again, the storm was beginning to pick up speed. He stayed by the door as his eyes adjusted to the light. There were a surprisingly low number of people snowed in here, but there was more than enough to get at least him through the rest of the winter. He neared the counter and approached the owner. "I need sanctuary from the storm and some..." -he said as he looked the owner up and down- "food." He didn't know what tomorrow would bring, but with so many warm bodies around, he was optimistic that he would survive the winter.
  21. Metacognition
    I really shouldn't play. Like Kas, I have finals and just a ton of work to do, but I couldn't pass up the chance to play with this character! Merad Donner stumbled through the snow. His caravan had tried to make the pass early in the winter. The effects of such had made him unkempt and incredibly disheveled. His beard and hair had grown long and wildly. His clothes were a mishmash of old, worn out hand me downs and furs. His cheeks were hollow from malnutrition and he had the hundred-yard stare of one that had looked into the abyss and had lived to tell the tale. His appearance was entirely the fault of circumstance. He had, before their disastrous trip, been a very healthy and hale man. But the caravan had gotten lost and stuck, as winter had come early that year. With winter blowing in hard, it wasn't long before they had ran out of supplies. It was then that they turned to... what some would've called "unfavorable choices." Merad wouldn't have, but some people would. Well, that time was all over now. He'd had to "lose" the last of their party a little over a week ago. It was either leave what was left of the caravan and the corpses behind or starve. As he crested a hill, he noticed smoke rising in the distance. Could it be? Had he found his way back to civilization? He took out the last of his homemade jerky and ripped off a small piece. The tang of the piece was unlike any other flavor of animal he'd ever tasted and he loved it. Whether he had found civilization or not, smoke at least meant people and people meant food... So he set off towards it, his mouth watering.... I will try to be as available as possible, but remember, I did say that I probably really shouldn't be signing up! I'm still chuckling a bit about the whole "people meant food" bit. I crack myself up sometimes!
  22. Metacognition
    Just want to point this out, guys. Please remember that the Fair Play Rules prohibit using RL relationships to try to establish guilt or innocence (Granted, it's worded in a manner to suggest only innocence, but it's implied and either way, we'll get that fixed to make it more clear ). I'm sure you didn't mean to use it in such a way, but this also gives us a chance to remind all of our players, new and old, of this. So, in a way, thanks!
  23. Metacognition
    Funny, I don't remember giving anyone a Splinter of my Shard.
  24. Metacognition
    Dang it, some old school faces are coming back for this game and I have to sit it out as the impartial Mod. Just making sure everyone is aware what's going on as far as authority goes for this game. If anyone has an issue this game, feel free to approach either myself or Gamma and we'll be sure to get it sorted out. Also, Gamma, if you have a spec doc or if you're combining it with the dead doc, hit me up with the link whenever you set it up!
  25. Metacognition
    I take it that the most voted for person hasn't responded yet, so I also nominate Gamma Fiend. We've got a good chunk of the Reckoners, we should round out the SE as well.
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