Comatose

Nice! Care to clarify where Chase is so I can have Rainmaker react? Like Edge said, I think it depends on the weakness. Weaknesses to physical objects (such as Kool-Aid) shouldn't work, but weaknesses involving sounds or states of mind (like Mitosis's and Steelheart and Regalia's weaknesses, respectively), probably still should.

I just finished watching this truly exquisite film. Words are failing me now, but PLEASE, someone tell me that they too have watched it so that I have someone to gush about it with? I mean, seriously, I could not tear my eyes away from the stunning animation. I won't get to into the story for fear of spoilers until I know that someone else has watched it, but WOW. As the ending credits came on, I was literally crying slow tears that gently streamed down my face, like in the movies. I didn't know that even happened. Just... ugh. I'll get myself together soon and be able to have more of a frank and detailed discussion of the themes, plotting, voice acting, etc, but for now, please tell me somehow else was as impressed with this movie as I was! I'm very glad to see that even without Hayao Miyazaki, Studio Ghibli is still a force to be reckoned with! Seriously, there are just too many shivers.

If you don't want to post with Cornucopia, I can just time jump forward as well. We were just wrapping up the fight scene, and Rainmaker was asking the other Queens about how they should proceed. We can leave those pesky details for later, and move forward, if everyone is okay with another short time skip (a time skip would also give me an excuse to write another fun flashback scene, so I am definitely in favour of that!).

*Comatose follows Zas's suit (see what I did there?) and takes off his admin hat* I'll leave an in depth discussion on the rep system for someone else, since that's not really my area. I would like to try put some things in perspective though. I understand that down-votes can hurt people's feelings, and that some of you feel the need to know why you get down-voted, but I also think it's important to remember that the rep system is just a small part of 17th Shard as a whole. You may notice your rep going up and down, but for most people on the boards, the general trend seems to be up much more than down. Generally, the more people post, the more up-votes they get. While some might get more downvotes than others, the changes in rep that I've seen haven't been too drastic, especially when compared to positive rep changes. There are situations where mass downvoting occurs, but on the whole this seems to be the exception rather than the rule. I'd advise people, no matter what happens to the rep system in future versions of 17th Shard, to focus on the good instead of the bad. Why fixate on one downvote that might have been accidental, or due to an opinion you don't share, when you could just focus on the overall growth of the community, and on the generally positive use of the system. When you have literally hundreds of up-votes affirming you, why do a couple dozen downvotes matter so much? Personally, I don't really fixate on the ebbs and flows of reputation. I notice when I go up a title, and think 'that's cool', or sometimes I will pause and check how far away I am from the next one if it has been a while, but fixating on the reasons behind every single individual up or down vote seems a tad time consuming to me. I don't mean to offend anyone, or belittle any feelings that have been hurt, but I do think it is important to keep things in perspective and not ignore a lot of good by fixating on a small amount of bad. I totally get the concern about offending people and not knowing it. I'm often self conscious about the things I post online, and worry that some might find it offensive. On this point, remember that you are not here alone. If you are worried about a post that has recieved a downvote, ask a friend to read it over for you, or bring it to the attention of a staff member. Also, take a look at how other people are responding to it, both in votes, and in their responses. While it's true a single downvote might have been caused by an unintended slight, if it truly harmed someone, my hope would be that they bring it to the staff, or say something about how the post made them feel. At the end of the day, you have to trust your own instincts, and the instincts of the community as a whole, rather than the whims of individuals whose motivations you have no way of knowing. Others have brought up that Rep is an important marker of contributions to the site. While this is true, I would emphasize that it is a marker of one's contribution, not the marker. There's also post count, displaying prominent theories in signatures, friendships, and, of course, the content of the posts themselves. Whether or not your post has -1 rep, or 50 rep, you still made it. Whatever it's approval rating, you took the time to write something, put it together, and send it out to the internet for people to read. I think those words and paragraphs should count for something. If you feel like the rep system is not an adequate representation of your contribution to the site, focus on the many other ways your work can be recognized. To me, an affirmative comment or respectful debate in a thread is worth a lot more than a few upvotes. Of course, I can't speak for everyone, and I'm not saying you should not pay any attention to your reputation. Just remember to keep things in perspective. I know I haven't answered all the point that were made here, but I'll leave that to others who can answer them better. I just wanted to remind everyone to see the big picture.

One point of clarification. Starbucks actually has a unique corporate structure that makes it difficult to buy actual restaurants. It's a publicly owned entity, and every worker owns shares and opportunities to buy into the company. So he could buy shares in Starbucks, but not the actual restaurants unless he was just buying the building and changing the restaurant. (Citing my husband who worked at Starbucks). Sorry for nit picking haha. I haven't checked the thread yet, but a cornucopia post would be lovely if there isn't one there already.

That sounds good to me! I guess I did not read your most recent post carefully enough!

If the illusion was good enough at affecting touch, then you would necessarily pass through. When people feel an obstruction, they don't generally keep pressing. Once they feel something in their way, they stop naturally. This wouldn't prevent someone from moving through an illusion if they bumped into one by accident or if they tried leaning or putting weight on one, but it might deceive a passing inspection. (As a side note, this is kind of what I had in mind for Radiance (the Vancouver epic from Brandon's back story), who could make touchable illusions with limited 'sentience' (like AI for a video game NPC), and used them to control the city until someone figured out she actually had no army at all. Other possibilities for an illusionist faking a PI: Perhaps he could be an astral projector, who can project himself from far away (like Regalia, but with an illusion instead of with water), which would serve to mimic an incorporeal PI. He could use Buttercup, but my thought was that Rainmaker would keep her busy, and she could not afford time to be there personally to take the injuries. Buttercup's time would be more valuable in Rainmaker and Skinsaver's eyes then the lives of a few vanillas. Unless I missed something and Buttercup can heal other people? If that's the case the time argument still holds, but Buttercup could come around periodically to help out. Regardless, with Euphoria gone, perhaps she could start swinging by to help with more serious cases. Also, to clarify, I didn't really have an official alignment between Skinsaver or Euphoria in mind, or even that he was 'choosing' her over Buttercup. All I meant is that the patients would be kept docile by happiness doses, similar to the rest of the population but slightly increased. There's no reason both could not help out with his practice.

Just to be clear, I meant that last comment about groin kicking to be in jest. Labour is obviously more painful, but I've heard that question asked anyways and was poking fun. Interesting point about cluster headaches! Also, I'm sorry you know about them from experience. . Back on point, which Queen has time to go next? I can also time jump forward and we can work out the details of their plan here. We can just say they left before Phoenix resurrected and then maybe we can organize an info gathering post with Rainmaker, Jumpdrive, and maybe Reflection? I would really love to be ready for Hypno's scene and the end of the day by the time Mailliw gets back.

If there is no reason for them NOT to interact differently, then I might still do it. I like the idea of switching things up. If others are okay, I kind of like the idea of him being able to heal birth defects or missing limbs. Not sure about the pregnancy related injuries. I'm guessing he could only transfer that to a woman, since there would need to be an equivalent body part to damage. This actually points out another key limitation. To heal a wound on someone's right arm, he would need to transfer it to someone with a right arm. The person receiving the injury must be at least somewhat whole or capable of receiving the injury as it occurred on the patient. Back to pregnancy - if the pregnancy related injury was inflicted to a body part that men also have, he could still transfer it, even if a man would never sustain such an injury. However, if the injury was to female-specific organs, then the injury could not be transferred. So no, his powers are not the solution to the age old debate on whether contractions hurt more than being kicked in the groin. Too bad, because that's a question I'm still waiting to see answered... (lolz).

I didn't think he was that powerful, since his powers would still require touch, and unlike Deathwish's, would not happen automatically. He could potentially kill Converter, since many of her powers require touch, but he'd have a hard time with any epic with a range. I was also thinking of making it so any PIs automatically trump his power OR that the PIs act as a kind of black-hole that he can send endless amounts of injury into without any effect. Yes, he could be a brawler in the right scenarios, but if he can't get skin contact, he could die just as easily as anyone. I think in this case he would be more valuable as a healer, especially with Euphoria around to keep his invalids happy. On the point about PIs, if I did choose to use them as black-holes, I think Skinsaver would still use humans to take on injuries, since using epics with PIs all the time could be seen as an inconvenience or a waste of time for a more useful epic. Thoughts? EDIT: For clarity, I said his powers were similar to Deathwish's, so I don't think they necessarily need to work the same.

And that is exactly why your viewpoint suits you, I think. If you look at religion as fulfilling a need that people feel, then your felt need for definite truth is ill served by leaps of faith, and if messages from the biblical texts do nothing to enhance your worldview, then they aren't really doing you much good. For me, common facets of religious expression are self improvement and a belief in principles. In your discussion of mathematical certainty, and from other discussions of had with you, your belief system, even if it is not necessarily 'religious' does seem to fulfill this need. I don't want to assume anything, so sorry if that was presumptive. Just an interesting observation I had. As you said above, different strokes for different folks indeed. This debate about the Bible does make certain assumptions about how and why people are reading it, and about how people percieve the divine. Since I differ from both Chaos and Twi in how I see these things, I think I should take some more time to consider before weighing in too extensively. For now, while I think truth is great, and many here have already demonstrated a certain amount of dedication to it, my personal relationship with the Bible is about something different than 'eternal truth'. I think for me, it's more a means by which I examine my own perception of truth and morality. This is informed by how I view the bible and its creation of course, so there are many good reasons why our viewpoints might differ. And there I went going into depth when I said I wasn't going to, haha. I think what I'm trying to get at is that I don't see the two arguments as mutually exclusive. The bible can have value for its messages and accessibility, without being a beacon of 'eternal truth'. Again, for me it is important that the things I believe in don't prove themselves, otherwise that would take the work out of believing for me. Others find a lot of certainty and truth in the bible, while others find nothing of note, and I think that's all fine, as long as needs are being met and people feel fulfilled. And now I'm going to cut myself off before this turns into another sermon...

I'm also curious to see what people think. If it more has to do with mental powers, then healing is fine. If it has to do with powers in general, than perhaps my multiplication/reduction idea for transference could count as an 'interference' causing trouble when dealing with other epics.

Well this power does not work by gifting, so that's not an issue. I know that some powers don't work on other epics while some do, but have we ever come up with a pattern or distinction? The only healing I remember seeing in the books is Prof's, which doesn't work on other epics because it can only be used on the self, and only seems to heal others when it is gifted. SIDE NOTE: This seems to indicate that Prof's healing would indeed function automatically, despite his apparent ability to suppress it, since the Reckoners are able to use his gifted powers without knowing what they are doing. Has Brandon that true healing' is less likely to work on other epics? Or do we just have a general idea that some epic powers work on other epics and some don't? If we want a distinction, I could change it so the damage transference is more difficult on epics. Maybe the severity of the damage is intensified when it is being transferred from an epic? It could also be lessened when transferred to an epic, limiting the Doctor's (Skinsaver perhaps? I do still like that name - good catch!) ability to use his powers offensively.

Insight is an incorporeal in Corvallis, but another one would be welcome, and Smoke is quite different. To be fair, Brandon has said that truly unique powers are rare, so having epics with similar powers probably makes us closer to canon than farther from it. I'd guess it's more about unique power combinations than anything. I'm planning out a healer character for Corvallis. Right now, I'm thinking a damage transference power, similar to Deathwish and Decoy (that NPC epic who died in my first Corvallis post). This epic would basically have the power to transfer damage from one body (the patient) to another. Both have to be living, so it wouldn't work to transfer the injuries to corpses. What I like with this power is it works well with Euphoria's ability, and could cause problems without Euphoria to compliment it. What I'm imagining is that this epic transfers injuries and illnesses from more useful people (mostly epics) to less useful people (usually vanillas), and keeps a bunch of invalids around to transfer injuries and illnesses to until they die of them. These invalids would be kept happy with their state by Euphoria's power, but with her gone, I think they will become much less satisfied with their situation, causing problems for the Doctor. Thoughts?

What I love about discourse on this topic is my tendency to agree and disagree with portions of what everyone is saying, no matter what their viewpoint or background is. In general, I'm a fairly logical person, and I like things to make sense. I'll say it up front that, for me, my faith does NOT necessarily make sense, at least not to me. It's actually been a good way of challenging myself to think about things differently. The whole purpose of faith, in my mind, is that I trust that even if not everything makes sense to me, somehow it does make sense (sorry Chaos if that drives you crazy, haha). When it comes to religious debate, I try not to get bogged down in the details. As others here have pointed out, it is easy to use history to prove or disprove or debate the existence of many things. The same goes for science. For me, I believe in God because, when I let myself, I feel a strong personal connection to something bigger than myself. This 'feeling' mentality certainly doesn't come naturally to me. In fact, I think it is against my nature, and usually I'm pretty good at ignoring it when I don't force myself not to. For me, church, hymns, the bible, and a religious community are all ways for me to challenge myself and rise above my natural inclinations and try to challenge myself to grow. "The Egg," by Andy Weir was one, among many other works, that really changed how I view faith, religion, and trust. Human beings, for all the amazing things we are capable of doing and understanding, still have a limited viewpoint. Our perspective of the universe is limited by cultural, social, economic, etc. factors that inform how we think about and do things. For me, God is sum of everything. She/he/it/they is/are the bigger whole that every living and non-living thing are a part of. God is something I definitely do NOT understand (again, sorry for the frustration Chaos, believe me, it frustrates me too), but I believe the bigger picture does come together in some way. I think the science of the world, and the metaphysical reasons for things is a large part of that picture, but that they are not the only part. What I try to challenge myself with when it comes to faith is to sit with my lack of information, and find comfort in my lack of understanding. So, some of you might be wondering where the Bible and my Mennonite heritage come into this. I've accepted the Christian bible and the Mennonite Church as the lens through which I view and interact with the God I understand as a higher power. I acknowledge that my lens has flaws, and might be more flawed by some of the other lenses out there, but it is the lens I am the most comfortable with, so I am sticking with it for the time being. I think that there is truth in all religions, but that's a part of my greater belief in a bigger picture that I can't see, so don't ask me to point to objective evidence of those truths. I think that's what this debate comes down to for me. I can't offer objective reasons or proofs to support why I choose to believe what I do, because my reasons or based on subjective faith. If I could prove and explain everything, I wouldn't need faith in my life. Indeed, I'm a fairly independent person, so there have been many times in my life when I have drifted away from my faith, feeling like I no longer needed a relationship with a higher power in my life. These periods usually end with me ending up in a place I don't like being, and so I've basically found that faith is a necessary part of my life. It helps keep my on the track I have chosen, makes me feel more like myself, and pushes me to be better than I am. Some people don't need religion in their lives to do this, and I admire them for it, but I do. Unless someone offers me another way to fulfill this need in my life, I doubt that will be changing any time soon. As for the comments on the afterlife, for me, the standard heaven vs hell or good vs evil afterlife scenario has never made sense to me. Before I proceed, I'd like to make it clear that I mean no offence to anyone who does ascribe to this vision of the afterlife. All I'm trying to do is present my own opinion. To me, the heaven and hell scenario seems like an all too human construction. It makes too much sense. The good get rewarded, the bad get punished, clean lines are drawn, and everyone gets what they deserve. People though, are more complex than that, and in life can't be categorized as easily as might be thought on paper. The God or higher being that I know is better than that. For me, it has always been important that my faith and service be based on love, not fear. Believing in any sort of hell or eternal punishment takes choice out of the equation for me, because then my faith would be based on the fact that someone more powerful than I could exert that power to punish me should I fail to meet certain standards. I don't know what life after death looks like, if such a thing exists, but I do believe that it is entirely different than anything I can possibly imagine, so I just try to trust that it will be good. Again, to those who DO believe in a heaven/hell or similar afterlife model, I think that is a fine viewpoint to have, and don't think your faith is any lesser for having it. As I reread the above paragraph I can see how some might be challenged or offended by what I have said, but I'd like to emphasize that those are merely the reasons I believe what I do. Obviously, my perspective is limited, so I have no capacity to objectively determine that another point of view on the subject of religion is false or 'bad'.. Anyways, I think I've blabbed on long enough. Hope it was interesting. To sum things up for those who just scrolled down to the bottom, I basically believe that I'm incapable of ever fully understanding the why of things, and that faith is based on trust when no proof is present. This is why I don't think you can ever convince someone to believe one thing or another, they have to choose it for themselves. No one by arguing, could convince me to be an atheist, just as I can't convince anyone to believe in God. To me, that choice is the most important thing.

You can rebuild something that you did not build haha. And technically, I'd say Funtimes modified it, unless she has a former life as a construction worker we don't know about. I did, however, forget that Funtimes was still running around, and that she could, of course, also use her powers to repair the museum. Question that I'm sure has been answered in one of the many pages of Portland that I have not read: Are Lucentia's diamonds transmutable? If so, her and Funtimes could be a pretty useful combination, if they could ever be convinced to work together for long periods of time.

Which is why I am soo glad that you were a good enough friend to sit through them all at my wedding, haha. Or maybe that was just because I was super sneaky and ambushed you with crazy music . While I love hymns, I also have this problem with singing some of the words sometimes. Some of the Hymns we sing in church are pretty out-dated, so it can be disconcerting to be loving the sound of a great song only to realize that what it is about is kind of messed up. For me, I think this discomfort is a good way of checking and testing myself, but I totally get that from another perspective it comes across as just weird. I've also always been a bit more of a cognitive christian, meaning I understand my faith more at an intellectual level than on an emotional one. Because of this, in church, the music portions are usually just enjoyable for me, and I get more of a spiritual interaction during sermons or group discussions. I'm more likely to get excited when a favorite or familiar hymn gets picked than to feel some sort of spiritual high while singing. I might not be the person to talk to about the religious significance of hymns, since for me, they are more of a cultural enjoyment. When Craig and I got married, we invited a lot of non-religious folk, and making the service accessible to everyone, while including the important parts of our Menno heritage, was important to us. It's a delicate balance though, which is why we're lucky to have such accepting and patient friends. One thing that I didn't realize was weird about my Mennonite Heritage (which might be similar to some other denominations) is learning to speak in unison and just knowing the right intonations to use. As an adult, I attended other churches who perhaps don't speak in unison as often, and got seriously weird-ed out by people speaking out of time with each other. I realize that, to people unfamiliar with the practice, we probably sound really culty or mind control-ish, but growing up with it made it seem pretty normal to me. Yes, what you've just read may have confirmed for you that I am part of a large hive mind. Our name is Canada .

I think you can post now, if you want. It seemed like Phoenix's viewpoint happened relatively soon. Unless you were intending for the Queens to be gone, in which case maybe we can try to finish things up quickly. On the MoNA front, I think having some serious superficial damage could be interesting. When it gets back up and floating again, it could be fun to have a newly resurrected Lightwards vow to rebuild it, greater than before. As long as the musuem is still floating, the damage shouldn't be too difficult to restore, especially with our favourite diamond generator still in residence. Actually, it would be a smart move on Lucentia's part to help 'rebuild' the museum, since then she would have something on Lightwards - if he betrayed her, she could reduce the new and improved diamond portions of the building into dust as revenge. To be fair, I'm sure Lucentia could get bigger and better revenge if she wanted, but the pettiness of undoing a renovation seems to fit with her character.

Just rereading Nighthound's powerset. In the context of what we know about gifted powers (how its all or nothing) does this mean Nighthound could, if he chose, gift the power to create more "hounds" to people? On second thought, Domestication requires gifting, and since he only gifts the power itself (either enhanced reflexes or healing) and not the ability to re-gift, it makes sense that Domestication cannot chain. The danger of Nighthound creating an army has been averted. You're welcome. *Slinks away hoping that no one realizes he brought this up as a possibility in the first place.

OOC: Posted! Please let me know if there are any problems. For this turn, I felt like making all my actions public, so enjoy. LUTHA ELARIEL: TURN 1: ACTIONS:

Gotta love those moments when you see past all the whining and remember just how terrifyingly powerful Lucentia is, and suddenly Astoria makes sense again.

I completely agree. This is actually the overall point I was trying to get at, by pointing out the focus on humanity in the books as one of the factors that need to be considered when making the comparison. In the extinction level events on Earth, nearly all life was almost extinguished, and MANY species went extinct. Here, we are only talking about the near extinction of humanity (one species). The Divine Intervention is an interesting element both ways. Ruin, in his efforts to destroy, seems to be focusing on humanity, even though he is doing a pretty good job of sending everything down the drain as well. Then, when Harmony restores the world, he seems to recreate much of the plant and animal life that existed prior to The Final Empire. This means that while humanity was reduced by a shocking percentage, bio-diversity on the planet likely increased dramatically, with species being reintroduced who had been extinct for thousands of years. If this is viewed as a near extinction event, it kind of has to be viewed as only applying to the human race, since the rest of the planet did pretty well for itself.

For the poll, I think adding 'Christianity' in general as an option, while keeping the sub-sects might be a good compromise. That way, people who identify as simply Christian, or whose denomination is not included on the list, still have an option, but the poll still shows more accuracy. Another option would be to add religions to the poll as they are brought up in the the thread, which would lead to the greatest accuracy, and wouldn't privilege Christianity over the others. Since Brandon is based in North America, it is more likely that western religions (which are mostly different denominations of Christianity), will be more common, but I don't think that justifies lumping other groups together, who might have less in common than many of the Christian denominations that have already been separated out. For me, I'm Mennonite, which is a Christian denomination. Most people lump Mennonites in with the Amish and Hutterites, however only the sect that I've heard called "old order" Mennonites are really similar to those other groups, though we all share a common heritage. I grew up Mennonite, so I'm obviously biased, and since it is a cultural as well as a religious designation, sometimes it can be difficult to determine if someone who identifies as Mennonite is speaking culturally, religiously, or both. I've had my problems with the church, but I like the direction we are currently headed in, so I'm prepared to ride things out. I think the things I like the most about the Mennonite Church (or at least, the Canadian Conference Church, which is a separate entity from the Mennonite Brethren or other Mennonite Groups), is the inclusion of pacifism as a core principle, and the focus on service and leading by example as a means of religious expression. I also like the idea of adult baptism and the intentionality of choosing to belong to a Church when you feel ready. I also like the cultural things--the perogies, the relief sales, the hymns with four part harmony--but to me, these are all secondary to the core ideals of my personal belief system. As you can tell from my above post, Mennonites seem to love sub-dividing just as much as the other Christian denominations we've talked about. I agree with a lot of what's been said here, and think that a lot more ecumenical or multi-denominational efforts to build bridges between different traditions and focus on common beliefs rather than differences could make some pretty big differences in the world. I know right now, the Mennonite Church in Saskatchewan (where I live) has been doing a lot of Peace and Reconciliation Work with First Nations Groups whose lands were given to the Mennonites to farm when they first arrived in Canada, and it's been cool to see the interactions between these two cultural and religious groups, and with the other groups who have gotten involved. Sorry if that got a little rambly, haha. I tend to blab a bit on this subject.

Okay. I think given Silver's absence, having Converter restrained would actually be preferable, since it would limit the amount that others need to take over. We can just leave her restrained until Silver returns, and then free her. Let me know if Silver has something different to say.

Rainmaker supervised as the energy epic was chained, and watched as the heavy chains were anchored to the ground. Buttercup's security team worked quickly, wearing insulated suits to avoid being fried by any electrical currents coursing through the metal. For the moment, if you ignored the fury in her eyes, the rogue epic seemed restful, watching and waiting for an opportunity to escape. Rainmaker readied more hailstones to block her path should she try. Rainmaker also applied a downward wind on the chain wherever her workers were not handling it, to prevent the epic from sending it flying as she had those hail stones. Finally, after a couple of close calls where Rainmaker had to step in to help subdue the epic again, the chains were anchored and tightened, trapping her in place. One of the workers had his arm broken by a chain moved with kinetic energy, but otherwise, they had kept casualties in the later half of the attack to a minimum. Rainmaker gave instructions to have a shelter built around the epic's area over night, so that once the sun rose behind Rainmaker's clouds, they could limit the amount of energy she could gain. Once preparations were under way, Rainmaker made sure the bubble of freezing air was still in place around the epic, and then turned to leave. She would return once the sun shelter was completed, to place protective winds around the make-shift prison, but for now the guards would have to suffice. With epics to help, the construction of the sun shelter would not take long. Rainmaker landed back on the stage, feeling exhausted from the long day, and from all of the instructions she had been forced to give. She was unused to coordinating her people directly, and her irritation with their inability to read her mind was evident. Losing Euphoria was more than just a blow to the peace in Corvallis. The loss of her administrative capabilities was a loss to Rainmaker as well. Rainmaker motioned for the remaining Queens, Buttercup, Cornucopia, and Blossom, to gather around her. "It seems we have the situation in hand for the moment. Now, it is time to decide our next move. I cannot continue to be bogged down trying to explain my wishes to these simpletons. For the short term, we will need to find a suitable replacement to perform Euphoria's administrative duties. We also need to work out a plan of action to track down the other epics involved in the attack tonight, and for locating Euphoria. Is there anything else you think we should add to the agenda?"