IceBaka

I'm starting to wonder if Tezim is not necessarily a crazy leader, but is rather a figurehead who is propped up by some oligarchy. Or maybe he is a little loony, but the fanaticism is something he's cultivated in followers rather than expressing himself. The message refers to Tezim in the third person. While he could have referred to himself that way, I'm thinking it was actually written by someone else who wants others view Tezim with terror because the message writer knows Tezim is a figurehead or a less-crazy leader who cultivates maniacal worship in his followers. Navani seems to think Tezim's soldiers are crazy. Maybe it's just the followers that are crazy, not the leader. They're not immediately informing their leader about potentially important communications from a foreign nation, almost as if they are keeping him in the dark? This certainly could suggest that the scribes, or someone(s) close to the scribes, are actually in charge.

The politics will be reduced, perhaps, but they won't go away. Even Sadeas was smug in his confidence that he could turn it to his advantage despite everything else that happened just before Adolin killed him. While some may view the Everstorm and related events as a crisis that requires relinquishing political activities, others will see it as an opportunity to feed their aspirations.

Looks like I'm a little late, but initial reactions... Chap 4 Preface writer sounds like Jasnah. In the process of resolving a minor issue, Dalinar reveals interesting info (1st wife was hostage? Dalinar takes vengeance ... alone? The Rift and Rathalas - is that related to his wife being taken hostage? Is it the 'There' that Kadash mentions?) and opens up a bigger can of worms (the ardentia will be pissed!). Stormfather gives the OK in front of a big group - gonna be hard to deny Dalinar anything. And he finally acknowledges to himself that he's usurped Elhokar - will Dalinar attempt to become emporer of all Roshar with Elhokar still as king of Alethkar? That's a lot to take in for a chapter that's putatively about Dalinar marrying Navani. Chap 5 Preface writer sounds even more like Jasnah. Syl still doesn't understand so much - why are other bonded spren seemingly more capable in that regard? At least this time Kaladin's gloominess seems a little more justified because his parents may be dead. Chap 6 If the preface writer isn't Jasnah, then Brandon is trolling us hard. That reunion was more emotional for me than I was expecting. What did happen to the voidbringers - weren't there some parshmen in Roshone's household? When will Kaladin speak up to at least tell his parents what's going on? That punch - symbolically satisfying, but ultimately an empty gesture likely to cause more trouble for his family.

Which is why he would probably pass off most of the investigation to Adolin, like he did with the broken leather strap in WoK. Adolin heading up the search for Sadeas' killer would make an interesting story line.

Based on this explanation and what Wyndle says about Lift having low body fat (WOR p. 699, kindle version), it sounds to me like Lift is able to selectively convert glucose (not sucrose, see below) into awesomeness when the glucose is in her blood, assuming Rosharan anatomy and physiology are nearly the same as ours. Catabolism (break down) of carbohydrates results in monosaccharides (simple sugars). There are a lot of these, but the three most common in the human diet are glucose, fructose, and galactose. Sucrose (the sugar you buy at the store) is actually a disaccharide (double sugar) of glucose and fructose. These monosaccharides are easily absorbed via cotransport by the the adluminal cells of the small intestine, and facilitated diffusion allows their rapid movement into the blood. In other words, when you eat something with a lot of sugar, it can move into your blood fairly quickly. Sausage is mostly proteins (which break down into amino acids) and lipids, aka fats and oils (which break down into monoglycerides and fatty acid chains). The amino acids also can move into the blood pretty quickly after digestion, but then it will take some time for cells to absorb them, convert them into glucose by enzymatic action, and release them back to the blood. Hence, the increase in blood glucose is slower and more prolonged. Lift wouldn't even need to eat to derive some investiture from the molecules currently in her body. Catabolism of carbohydrates and metabolism of other types of molecules into glucose, would allow her to "eat" herself to generate investiture. However, as noted by Wyndle, that would make her dangerously emaciated, and could lead to death if pushed too far. Unless she had large muscle and fat deposits, it would only be useful for small amounts of awesomeness. Thus, she has to derive most of her awesomeness by ingesting materials. What I'm getting at is that Lift could get a massive surge in investiture more quickly if she used a syringe to inject a glucose solution directly into a blood vessel. I'm not sure if Roshar has that technology, but they do seem pretty advanced in medicine. Lift could carry around little vials of "Instant Awesomeness".

It may not really matter what Taravangian asked for, if Av is a reliable source (when telling Baxil how the Old Magic works): That seems to indicate that the Nightwatcher doesn't twist your words because your request is, to some extent, irrelevant. I've always read the "sometimes related" part as meaning that the curse and boon may or may not be related, but I guess it could also mean the boon (and/or curse) may or may not be related to the request. Either way, Av's description strongly suggests that Taravangian's fluctuating intelligence may have been his curse (and/or boon) regardless of the wording he used when asking a boon of the Nightwatcher. As a side note, when I went back to read this section to make sure I got Av's words correct, I realized that Baxil's mistress (presumably Shallash) using henchmen was a good foreshadowing of Darkness (presumably Nalan) using henchmen.

No, not really. Evolutionary pressure does not drive every organism to develop the same adaptations. More importantly, humans are not native to Roshar, and on a geological time scale they've only just arrived there. The physical and ecological pressures of Roshar have had little influence on humans. However, the Parshendi are native to Roshar. In addition to their ability to they have many anatomical and physiological differences from humans, despite the overall similarity in body form. This isn't surprising given that they evolved on different planets. And that's what I'm saying about Earth humans versus Roshar humans. They have different origins, so it would be weird that they have exactly the same pool of primary blood types.

Jasnah is lighteyed royalty, while Kaladin is a darkeyed former slave. That's a lot of complications for a society that has a very rigid structure. Even if she does fall for him (which I think is unlikely), I doubt it would go anywhere.

Based on what we've seen of Renarin so far, there is really no support that his condition is hemophilia. I'm not sold on anemia, either, but at least some of his "symptoms" match up with what you would expect from anemia. And anemia has dozens of possible causes -- some genetic, some environmental. It could be that he is anemic as a result of some other condition, like leukemia. Mini-rant about "common" v. "rare" blood types: Blood typing is simply a way for us to classify which self-antigens are present on red blood cells. In reality there are hundreds of them, but most are only of interest to geneticists and molecular biologists. In most cases, there are only three self-antigens that are clinically important, that is, important for blood donations and transfusions. It is the presence (or absence) of those three that we use to derive the eight blood types you noted. Other types aren't "rarer" in occurrence, they just don't matter as much on a daily basis, so we rarely hear about them. However, you could use "common" and "rare" to describe the frequencies of the eight types you mention within a population. I really hope the "eight kinds of blood" mentioned by Jasnah do not equate to the blood types that we use for medical purposes. It would be kind of jarring for me to have the blood of Rosharan humans not differ in any significant way from Earth humans -- especially when so many of the other biological and ecological aspects of life on Roshar have been shown to differ because of the selective pressures caused by low gravity and regular highstorms.

This is a minor nitpick that probably has no bearing on your main ideas, but human blood isn't blue. Human blood color mostly depends on how much oxygen is bound to the pigment hemoglobin: bright red (scarlet) when highly oxygenated to dull, dark red in the absence of oxygen. It can take on more of a "purple" color when carbonated, especially sans oxygen. But in the body, even "deoxygenated" blood still has around 70% max load of oxygen, so it is closer to scarlet (check out an oxygen-hemoglobin dissociation curve and note that "deoxygenated" blood typically has a PO2 around 40 mm Hg). However, blood still inside the body often looks "blue" when viewed externally because of the odd diffraction of light as it passes through other tissues (skin, adipose, blood vessel wall, etc.). Also, hypoxia (lack of oxygen in tissues) can give skin a bluish cast (cyanotic). And, unfortunately, the myth of blue blood (no pun intended) is perpetuated by biology texts which continue to show veins as blue vessels, even though they have more of a dark red appearance when you cut away other tissues. That said, some arthropods have blue hemolymph (blood equivalent) because of the pigment hemocyanin. One of the reasons for the color difference between vertebrate blood and hemolymph is that hemoglobin uses iron whereas hemocyanin uses copper. Um, I'll get off my biology soapbox now... While I'm not sold on Alice's OP, I don't think this is very damaging to it. I think this statement ('Never underestimate them because of what you you first see') fits with Listeners because Brandon wants it to appear that way, for now. I think it's just as likely that "them" refers to some group we haven't yet encountered. As the main characters gain more knowledge and the next desolation commences, we're likely to see a whole boatload of new, interesting stuff.

I saw some discussion about Shallan's safehand being gloved in another thread, so I went to Tor.com to see for myself. While looking at the endpaper of Shallan, I started to focus on the creature next to her on the ledge. Then I went to the page that shows preliminary sketches by Ben McSweeny and Michael Whelan. Most of the sketches included a similar looking creature. That got me thinking that it might be Shallan's spren, Pattern. I realize that the descriptions of him so far do not support that. However, it's possible Pattern could experience a physical change. Syl's appearance doesn't change much, if any, from the first time Kaladin describes her. But that isn't surprising because she seems to remain largely ephemeral and non-physical, even with her cognitive growth. (Side note: not sure that it's Cognitive, as in realmatics, but I think it is since the return of her memories allow her a better perspective on how she sees herself.) Perhaps Pattern will go through development of a physical nature like Syl is undergoing development of a cognitive nature, giving rise to the creature with the arthropod-like appearance in the endpaper. Honestly, it seems like becoming more physical than cognitive would be a step-down for Pattern at this point, but perhaps some aspect of his bond with Shallan will require or enable such physical changes. What do you think?

Actually, fire could still be her weakness. The Reckoners cremated her dead body. Since she had already died at that point, burning the body may have had no effect. Perhaps burning her while she lives would be her weakness. Maybe a remnant of her human past when she was nearly killed in a burning building? On second thought, she does seem paranoid of dust, which doesn't quite jive with a fire weakness.

This is almost exactly what I thought when I read it. After Kabsal attempted to kill Jasnah, she says something to Shallan about him not being the first assassin, IIRC. Seems the Ghostbloods have been trying to get her for some time.

Not necessarily. Navani may have evidence that suggests a Parshendi (or voidbringer), but they may be misunderstanding the evidence.

Navani may believe the Parshendi are voidbringers at the time she writes the journal entry. Jasnah is definitely convinced they are, and she's on her way to the Shattered Plains. Most likely she'll persuade Navani, and this isn't that long before the entry is written. Whether or not the Parshendi are voidbringers is a different question. But if Navani believes they're voidbringers and she's indicating that a voidbringer left "the writing on the wall" - does that mean Navani will find evidence that a Parshendi scratched the note? We don't have much at this stage, but I'm inclined to believe Dalinar wrote on the wall. I think he did it subconsciously, perhaps with some external influence. Look at what we know: Dalinar uncharacteristically - you might say, mysteriously - falls asleep. He's by himself for some time (I take the fire being out as evidence that several hours have elapsed rather than the fireplace being a secret entrance). Even though he's alone in the room, there are probably servants, guards, and others in the rooms and hallways leading to his room (getting there and away undetected would be difficult). His mind is already tainted by outside forces (visions during highstorms). The glyphs are written with a rock already in the room (if someone were sneaking in to leave a message, they probably would have brought tools to ensure they could). Dalinar reads the glyphs, but that doesn't mean he regularly writes them (that could account for Rushu's assessment that they're not well-drawn).

I agree that we do not have the same opinion about this. And since it's based on opinion, I don't think there has to be one 'right' answer. But that's kind of how leadership works. The responsibility of a leader is that his (or her) followers are benefited or harmed by the decisions and actions of the leader. The only reason a group shouldn't be held accountable for its leader is if he gained leadership through methods that were coercive, illegal, or immoral (although I admit that last one is a little fuzzy). And this was not the killing of one person, literally or figuratively. How many guards did Szeth injure or kill before fighting Gavilar? Are you saying those citizens who were just doing their jobs do not matter? There were several people killed in the assassination attempt, not just Gavilar. And no matter how you slice it, Gavilar represented more than himself. Killing him is a symbolic attack on the entire kingdom, even if unintended. Thinking on a larger political scale, the Alethi had to respond. Yes, the response could have been more diplomatic, less violent. However, the other nations of Roshar are familiar with the war-like tendencies of the Alethi. If the Alethi king is assassinated and the Alethi people do not bring their armies to bear, then some of the other kingdoms are likely to sense weakness and either attack or send their own assassins to Alethkar. So, I don't see any viable reason for the Alethi to say, "Oh, you killed our king. Well, we'll just sit here and wait until you tell us why." The fact that Dalinar hasn't competed for gemstones means he hasn't been participating in killing Parshendi. And "more bloodthirsty" has connotations that do not line up with Dalinar's intentions in ending the war (which would end the bloodshed).

Read it yesterday, but haven’t had time to comment until now. I read through the rest of this thread first, just to make sure I’m not repeating too much of what others have stated. The chapter headings from Navani’s journal, if you read them consecutively, make me think that the “death, destruction, loss, and pain” was an incident where the Alethi kill massive numbers of Parshendi. The Parshendi want to sue for peace, but there’s miscommunication that ends in fighting or slaughter. The description of the man that draws a sword on Jasnah in the palace and in Shadesmar sounds very similar to the beasts that attack Dalinar in one of his visions (I think it’s the ‘Starfall’ chapter). One of the Knights Radiant that helps to defeat the beasts calls them Midnight Essence. Since the Ten Essences are related to surgebinding, is it possible that Midnight (perhaps an absence of light) is an essence of Voidbinding? Edit: Which makes me wonder who would be voidbinding in an attempt to Jasnah... @Moogle – you seem to be seeing the assassination of Gavilar and the following war only at an individual level, which is true to some degree. However, this is not a bar fight and the Parshendi responsible are not simple bullies. The Parshendi who were present at the treaty signing were representatives of all their people. School bullies do not have that type of larger representation (legal, moral, or otherwise). Since those at the treaty signing were representing the Parshendi people as a whole, their actions (which I believe they took with full knowledge of the repercussions) are answerable to the Parshendi people as a whole. Yes, Gavilar and the Parshendi representatives are individuals (as are the many who have died in the war), but unlike normal people they are the political focal points of their nations, their cultures, their people. The assassination of Gavilar was more than just the death of one person, it was an attack by the Parshendi on the Alethi. It’s not surprising that the assassination lead to war. I’m not saying I favor war – I much prefer peace. But, in an imperfect world, some wars will occur regardless of what good people do. And so, I find your demonizing of Dalinar to be unwarranted. Dalinar doesn’t seem out for vengeance, and there are multiple times when he feels sickened when killing the Parshendi. He spends a third of the book trying to get other Alethi Highprinces to work with him. They won’t even do that, except Sadeas. What kind of a response do you expect from them if Dalinar were to officially and publicly attempt to get the Alethi to walk away from the war? They may just attack Dalinar with their armies.

It doesn't have to be water. Osmosis is the diffusion of any solvent across a selectively permeable membrane. It just so happens that water is the solvent in most important biological applications. If "yucky" translates as "awesome", then you are completely correct!

Is this why Odium is so heavily invested in Roshar -- to keep Cultivation imprisoned somehow?

Actually, Szeth says his Lashing interfere with the gemstones in the plate (not the other way around). That's a good point about Szeth not stealing the stormlight from Gavilar's Plate. However, Szeth does not derive his surgebinding from a Nahel bond, and perhaps that affects his ability to retrieve stormlight from certain sources (just like he cannot hold stormlight as efficiently as Kaladin). I think that's the second ideal of Kaladin's order, and Dalinar is strongly suspected to belong to a different order, which would have a different second ideal. I disagree. Plate doesn't automatically have to block stormlight drainage. In fact, would that even be necessary if none of the Radiants' opponents used stormlight? Voidbinding could very well rely on a different fuel source for investiture (e.g., the black light in gem Gavilar gives Szeth). If none of their enemies can use it, how would they have a mechanism to steal it? If Elhokar internalized the stormlight, he may have noticed something change within himself. However, we never see his viewpoint, so we can't be certain. Kaladin didn't wonder if anything weird was happening the first few times he used stormlight, because he didn't realize it. I doubt there are many individuals in Roshar with sufficient tools and power to redirect a chasmfiend's attack toward a specific target. However, there is one individual that could probably do it that was definitely in the vicinity at the right time... Hoid. I don't think Hoid's goals are nefarious, as he often is sympathetic toward characters that are largely "good". But he seems very determined to accomplish his goals, which may mean accepting collateral losses (i.e., killing innocents) in some circumstances. Hoid apparently was not going to join the hunt, but came riding in just as they arrived at the plateau. Maybe he decided to show up because his precognitive abilities indicated that something important was going to happen, but only if he was there to sway events. So he gets to the plateau, then disappears. Afterward he tells Elhokar that he didn't even see the fight with chasmfiend. I'm guessing it's because he went down into the chasm and used his lightweaving or something else to lead the chasmfiend to attack the plateau with all the people. Not because he intended great destruction (although, sadly, there was substantial loss of life), but because he knew the unexpected attack would jump start Elhokar, Dalinar, or both along some necessary pathway, like forming or strengthening a Nahel bond.

Or, I'd guess the Stone Shamans have some suits, even if they don't actually use them. My search fu is not strong, so I'm not really sure if this is something that's come up before. If so, will someone please share a link? Thanks. Anyway, in some of the recent threads a few of you have mentioned Szeth not using plate because it was problematc with his lashings. This prompted me to go back and read the prologue and prelude again to see exactly what he says about it. There were a couple of things that jumped out at me. Side note: even though I've read this a couple of times, I always thought the plate interfered with Szeth's lashings, not the other way around. But back to the point. So, there are three things here that Szeth knows: He couldn't lash and wear shardplate at the same time. How to take off the shardplate easily. He knew that all he had to do was tap. He knew where to tap. That shardplate was powered by gems. Or more specifically, where some of those gems would be. That's why he removed the breasplate, to get more stormlight. While #3 (powered by gems) may be more generally known, I have a hard time believing Szeth could know #1 and #2 without having previous experience with shardplate. Perhaps he gained that knowledge as a Truthless slave working and fighting for stonewalkers, but would they have given him shardplate to experiment with. If not, how would he know his lashings interfere with the gems? We know Szeth was trained in a fighting style known as kammar. Presumably, that was in Shinovar before he became Truthless. I speculate that it was during that time that he had exposure to shardplate. Which means the Shin have at least one set of shardplate. How did they get it? If they only have one set, then there are many plausible scenarios for obtaining plate. But what if they have more? This is where my speculation gets a little wild... Maybe the stone shamans have an ability to detect invested objects that have no connection to any people. They could retrieve any blades or plate that have been lost in circumstances where nobody was there to take them up. After thousands of years, they may have a stockpile.

I have a hard time agreeing with this. I think ownership of a shardblade does not automatically grant power or wealth, at least not in any immediate way. Perhaps it will lead to accumulation of power and wealth over years, or more likely, decades. The easiest way for a shardblade to generate wealth would be by selling it, which would mean you no longer retain ownership. So, you'd lose any prestige or power directly tied to the blade. For some individuals, if it were publicly known that they hold a shardblade, they would become targets. Think about Dalinar's vision of the recreance where the common soldiers fought over the abandoned blades and plate. One guy picks up a sword, then has to fight for his life to keep it because so many others want it. I think it would be advantageous to announce gaining possession of a shardblade primarily in situations where one has the means to properly defend him/herself. Those means could include things like being of high rank (with money and power already attached), belonging to a powerful organization (like an army, where a blade would definitely be welcome), or having proper skill in wielding the blade. While I agree that the threat of bringing the shardblade to bear may be sufficient to prevent some attacks, what about a shardbearer who has no training in swordplay? He may not present much of a threat to anyone with the proper skills. In short, I think whether or not an individual reveals possession of a shardblade will be highly dependent on his/her circumstances. Because of the strictures of Vorin culture, female shardbearers (at least in Dalinar's time) would probably want to keep it a secret. Of course, personality would be important to any decision. Some people are naturally flamboyant and ostentatious in displaying symbols of their power. Whereas others are more secretive in hiding their agendas and possessions until the most opportune moment. Remember how devastating the unknown shardbearer was at the beginning of tWoK? If not for Kaladin's freakish awesomeness, Amaram and his army would have been completely annihilated. Which leads me to believe that there are probably quite a few shardblades currently held by people who want to keep it secret.

hoser already shared this quote describing Szeth's blade: "His Shardblade was long and thin, edged on both sides, smaller than most others." It is described as "long" and "smaller". You could variably interpret long as "great length," "elongated," or "longer than regular swords." But I think the problems arise from the use of smaller, which could mean "shorter," "narrower," or "having less mass". The term used in both the book and the quote Shardlet supplies from the signing is smaller, not shorter. Szeth's blade could be the around the same length as other shardblades, but appear noticeably smaller because it is extremely thin. In fact it is described as "long and thin". And Taln's blade being "massive" might just mean that it's quite thick or wide without being overly long. So, while Szeth's blade may be obviously smaller, we cannot assume that it is significantly shorter than other shardblades without more information. Beating dead horses is fun, but... Jezrien could be a traitor. However, I don't think the death rattle about protecting a promise-killer is related. I kind of felt like that one was about Szeth. The Shin society is withdrawn from him. I'm not sure about the life-saving or promise-killing, but it could be related to his oathstone (relationship with Taravangian) and/or events that occur in WoR. The storm responding to a raised hand totally made me think of Szeth's lashings.

In WOK Chap 55, Sigzil is describing a distant city and mentions that they worship Jezrien as the only god. He also mentions that Vorin peoples would consider that religion a splinter group. Depending on how far in the past those religions split, the worship of Jezrien may represent a part of historical Vorinism that was changed by the Sunmaker. Maybe Jezrien was the Sunmaker. He got tired of having loads of worshippers, perhaps because he felt unworthy (after giving up on the Oathpact). Or perhaps he just wanted to distance himself from the people because he was so broken from the tortures between the desolations. I think he would find hiding easier if he deflected the focal point of a religion away from himself.

I'm not sold on this, but I'm not ready to throw it out because I think it's still viable. Maybe the reason the living Parshendi revere the dead is because they change into something else. Something marvelous, like a chasmfiend. Which then sacrifices it's gemheart to provide for it's brothers and sisters still in their puny Parshendi forms. In order for the transformation to work they may need some spren to combine with a mostly unmutilated Parshendi body. And that's why touching the dead is considered a foul desecration, it may impede the grand transformation! So Kaladin (and Bridge 4) have prevented the birth of several chasmfiends by hacking and stripping the Parshendi corpses... Perhaps what Brandon meant is that we haven't seen the initial stages of the chasmfiend after it's changed from a dead Parshendi.