Robinski

Mandamon, I want to thank you for your post, because I was beginning to think was reading a different story from a lot of the others. You have commented on many the things that bothered me, but you've been more patient than me in commenting on them. .

Sounds like you've got a nasty infestation there (Jokes, JOKES!!!!)

I don’t mean any offence, but line edits are part of my thing, hopefully only on content, not on style - which is not my place to tread on. Overall comments below. [0] Nice opening, I was certainly engaged. I felt the dream-like quality, not overdone, just right I thought. It sets up questions in my mind like (1) what kind of rift exists between Oz’s mother and father; (2) who is the shooter; (3) what’s special about Oz; (4) what’s up with the shooter smelling people? I am intrigued to read on. [+1] I'm confused by the blocking, is the diner across the road from the courthouse? Seems a bit odd, that such a grand entrance to an important public building would have a diner across from it and relatively close-sounding. I'm kind of dodging about trying to place the Rex. At first, I think they might be aliens, then ‘pods’ like Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Then I move on to thinking them zombies, and yet they seem calculating – are they a cult? But what about the face masks? The line about silt is disorienting, it doesn’t seem relevant, and if it is, there’s nothing for me to work on figuring how. Also, I don’t think you need to explain this Rex is not one of the four, I had not notion that it was, I think that explanation is unnecessary. “A meter metre away” Whoa, where did the gate come from? I would have liked more blocking at the start of this scene, I felt like this sprang into being. What act is he putting on? I doesn’t seem like he’s playing dead. Also, how far was that drop. I'm not really convinced by his landing. Because you haven’t set up what the environment is like, the revelation at the end of the chapter had little impact for me. [+2] “but stretched along the sill is my last explosive, left untouched” I don’t follow this line. How can he know this if he can’t see it, or is it outside? How does he know it’s untouched, they could have removed the fuse? “and grip on my mask” His mask was pulled off, how’d it get in his pocket? And what wires is he twisting, are these part of the mask? I don’t understand what the mask is. “The Rex murdered my parents.” Feels like a really familiar motivation. I like the description of the brides. This is my favourite thing so far, and feels on a more engaging level than anything else so far. “my primary mask and my back up backup” “and when she looks back at me” “but by the speed at which she and the other Brides obey, this woman is clearly in charge” – This is really unnecessary. The fact that she gives orders at all is the all the explanation that’s required. Comments like this treat that reader as being dumb. “By the slight jerk of both of her officers’ heads, I’m not sure everyone else knew that my post was their next stop, but then again, the Brides aren’t known for being friendly—and yeah, it’s not like I’m around girls my age much, much less a whole vehicle full of extremely fit women, but it’s pretty clear that Claire already hates me, and I’m not sure the rest of the Brides will be any different, so I shake my head.” – Massive sentence, really awkward. “It’s a skate board that uses the magnite rail” – Really? My interest just dipped significantly, as I realise I'm in another YA dystopia. “but despite her being in her forties (fifties?), it’s solidly light brown without a single strand of grey” – is fifties his thought? What does an 18 year-old know or care about when people get grey hair? “the murder of her husband and son drove her insane with grief” – There it is again. “Claire, the Brides from earlier, reaches over to hand me a fresh mask.” – It’s been like two minutes, and Claire is the first Bride you named, several times. I don’t think anyone will have forgotten her. Better ending to this chapter. ------------------------------------------------------------ I was certainly carried along by the writing, it’s a pacy opening. I'm hoping that things will slow down for a chapter so that we can learn more about the world. The appearance of the Brides was the highlight for me. Before that, I felt things were a bit generic. I must admit I'm still concerned about the dystopian territory we are in here, but my biggest worry is that I fell nothing for the protagonist. He seems like the next in a long line of damaged, humourless avengers fighting against an unstoppable tide of none-more-black evil. The Brides offer a glimmer of hope, as I can’t quite get a handle on them yet, despite their pristine uniforms, there is a great deal of scope for ‘grey’ in the way you’ve set them up, which is excellent. So, I have reservations, but I'm keen to read some more in the hope that the Brides will make Oz more interesting and engaging.

Okay, imagine that I'm playing a trombone and being more polite than I actually am. (That's as close to a Silk impression as I'm ever going to get.) I've looked back at the posts and we have the following requests for Monday the 18th: - Asmodemon - Kaisa (withdrawn?) - Ecohansen - King007(withdrawn?) - Spieles So, there are enough slots for this Monday coming, including for Kaisa and King to submit if you still want to. As yet, there are no additional requests for Monday 18th. Please, can we refrain from requesting slots for future Mondays. We go from week to week, and I think this is where the confusion has arisen recently. I can't remember if there is a rule about waiting till we are past one Monday before requesting for the next, but let's pretend there is - I think it makes sense

I'm even slower catching up!! Thanks for sharing this. The first time I laughed (slightly) was at “What about a larger bird?” Confirming the tenancy of the squirrels made me smile. For the most part though, I have to say this left me pretty much cold. In humour, like anything else, I feel you have to care about the characters and the outcome, and I did not. I thought it felt like a situation manufactured specifically for the purposes of humour, and therefore rather awkward and uninvolving. There were some nice lines, and I smiled several times, but I wanted and expected to laugh. Not an easy thing, humour, and very particular. I’m sure you’ll get good comments from some on here, it’s certainly well written. Good luck!

Hey Carcinios! Thanks for reading, and for the encouragement. Glad this found you. You're comments are well noted. Someone else pulled me up over the 'major' thing, and I commented under Part 2, I think. I appreciate that this will jar for those who know about this stuff. Clearly, him being a major as such is not an important part of the story. I think yours is the third mention of this, so I will almost certainly change it to something more appropriate / generically vague. In terms of Harth's behaviour and role in the battles, this is something else that I'm willing to tweak, if not in what he does, then emphasising how his actions are surprising. I would like to have him act differently in each fight, in part to have variation so they might not drag as much for the non-combatant readers (if you see what I mean). Threat - yes, this needs adjustment, which I will aim to do by clarifying the rules or expectations about who moves on, why and where. Why the bridge is to be held should also be set up much better in the beginning, and I will do that with the aim of increasing the threat level and the stakes. Thank you so much for those comments, they are very helpful, and think you for reading. Good to 'see' you again!

Thanks Spieles. I was down overnight, but spend so much time questionning myself anyway, that a bit more on top was copable with. I would not have been able to keep going the time I have if such challanges defeated me! So, I am full of positivity about giving HtB a once-over, but it will be a couple of weeks or 3, I suspect. Due to other writing commitments, including trying to keep pace with you lot! Oh, and work.

Lol - glad those were useful. I take your point about focusing on the personal, and avoiding over-preaching. Not easy when it comes to this subject, I appreciate. Good luck!

...if approved by Silk

Great comments, RD, thank you so much. All noted, I will adjust as required. Thank you for reading

I found the comments from Metamorphosis very interesting. "Please also tell me what you think the story's about, or what emotions you're trying to evoke" - this is one I can certainly relate to. Also, I think his point about considering traditional structure is interesting. I wonder if that would address the ending feeling rushed (to me). Thank you so much for sharing the re-write comments. As someone hoping to submit when I write a short that I'm satisfied with, this is incredibly valuable. Best of luck (and skill). Edit: p.s. - "I wanted to write a story where the main antagonists were the wrongs of the past and the impossibility of doing good without simultaneously doing bad." As the central concept of the story, I feel that the focus is placed at a micro level, a level of doing no harm to the smallest creatures, ignoring the scale of the problem, which is global. The problem, to me, is not the impact on tiny creatures, which is a moral consideration, but the global mechanics and practicalities of running the completely unchecked biological infestation that is humanity. You're asking very interesting questions within your story but, for me personally, I'm not sure you're focusing on the right ones.

Comments as I read. I haven't addressed your questions directly, I always read the story before looking at the thread. I just don't have time to go back to them - sorry. Two Months Ago Firstly, the story is very well written, i can totally understand why you would get this close to it publishing. You have a flowing style, with grammar and word choice that even I (Ace Verbtura, Pedant Detective) can hardly find anything to comment on - although I did wonder in the opening why the captalised Beast that one time. I must say, Joebob took his helmet off at just the right time. I was just beginning not to care about this pursuit that I had no frame of reference for. I don't really understand what a Fabber. How big it is what it looks like. It's not a big deal, I suppose, but enough to comment on, I guess. I'm not sure what you mean by 'no moral existence'. The phrase seems imprecise. Did you mean no 'mortal' existence? I feel that the last paragraph of '2 Months Ago' is the whole raison d'etre of the story. The first two phrases I'm fine with, but I felt I wanted more from the third about 'Rice', maybe what I needed though was more mystery. Twenty Years Ago Time jumping... okay. It's not my favourite thing, but ok. Wait, we've jumped back 20 years to listening to someone reminiscing about an earlier time? Hmm. That lacks the immediacy of being there when he discovered the lichen, but I can see why you might not go for that, having just had an active opening scene. What is 'duff' in this context? Ten Years Ago The boy's speech is strong, I enjoyed the way he challenged Terrell's actions as selfish. There's a much wider moral debate there. It helped distract me from the fact that I don't really know what's going on. There seems to have been a ecological tipping point or crisis. That's not explained, but that's not the nature of the story (hard, factual explanation). What I don't get at all is the reference to getting a soul. Is this Ricer religious dogma? I guess I must read on to discover. I don't like having to break off a story to go to the internet, which I had to do to understand the Savonarola reference. I'm always interested in what pulls me through a story. I'm out of it at the moment to search for Savonarola, so it's as good a time as any. I don't feel any liking for either character so far, and their aims are rather obscure. There's very little blocking or setting at all, although I can picture a generic glade well enough to keep me going. The writing itself pulls me on, but I'm not sure I really care about what I should - the character's and their goals. Five Years Ago Why does Joebob jog everywhere, why can't he just walk like other people do? I enjoy the way you have constructed your 'post-apocalyptic' society, the intertwining of post-technological simplicity with references to 'pre-fall' aspects. As a transport engineer, I find the use of road engineering terms as swearwords very effective. Why is 'Grownup' capitalised? Does it hold some significance as an actual title in the story? If not, I see no reason for it. The more you capitalise, the less effective it is, to the point of distraction. The ceremony was a bit long for me. The basis of it is interesting, but bit about not coercing any creature with a brain made me sigh. It seems over-precious to me, and lacking in certain practical considerations - just like all the best religions, then. It made me ask if these Ricers extend their philosophy to all aspects of life. Do they consider the habitat that they destroy in gathering materials for their homes? I suppose they could use windfalls, etc., up to a point. No doubt, these are the questions I should be asking at this point. Hang on, after the righteous ceremony based around zero harm, Wia employs modern technology, the research into and production of which must have laid waste to countless habitats and sentient creatures - the Fabber! I searched online for Fabber at this point. I did not know this term at the start of the story. Is this a generational thing? I don't know. I found it difficult to swallow that the plants growing from the Fabber would do so exactly as required by the story. How did that happen? All those amazing effects, growing to the right height, lifting a grown human into the air, how was that achieved? Am I to believe it was through science and engineering, God, magic? Four years ago The further explanation of the setting and context that comes from this (presently) short section is welcome. Three years, two months I like the premise for this section. Joebob's analysis seems overly simplistic, but grounded in the right area. I also like the appreciation they show for the fact that the overriding problem is that humanity's hardwired imperative carries the seed of its own downfall. Mankind is fundamentally unsustainable, as it is not sufficiently self-regulating to be accommodated (unrestrained) on planet Earth (IMO). Three years ago I don't follow why the copters are crass because the event hasn't started. I like the rational for the mound of carbon, very good, but is the mound big enough? What sort of geographical area (volume) is this supposed to represent? It's the engineer asking, on another level, I'm happy to glide passed this, accept the concept, and not think too hard about the mechanics. Sounds like a suitably dramatic and unexpected exit from the story for Terrell. Two years, 11 months I don't understand why Katy would consider how to change a natural process. Is that your intention? It seems misguided and directly contrary to the beliefs of her people. She also seems to lack and appreciation of human nature if she thinks she is unchangeable. But maybe that's just naivety. Two years, one month You use the term 'pseudoscorpion'. I took that to mean that it was one of Joebob's constructs, and therefore it's demise was surely irrelevant. He reacts, however, as if it was a real scorpion. At best, that seems unclear, at worst, it seems inconsistent with the story - surely the death of a construct is not considered on the same level as a natural creature. The sudden demise of his meal feels rushed, then suddenly that is all wiped away and we're a year further on. More heartache, it happens so quickly I didn't have time to feel his despair and frustration. But another point of confusion, the worm died of natural causes? What's the problem? One month ago My reaction is the same as his mother's 'Oh, pave it.' Like her, I feel my patience running out. Yesterday My goodness, is he a hedonist? 30 minutes ago Ah, no, okay. Would we learn about the nature of the Hall earlier, or is this the reveal? Anyway, I'm certainly left asking questions, considering the nature of existence. Considering the practicalities, the Hall itself can only sustain a certain number of people. Do they reproduce in there? I'm left with conflicting feelings, but retaining my belief that these systems are no more sustainable in terms of mankind's existence then the current one, but would no doubt last longer before they broke down. Looking back, I'm not entirely sure what promises the story made to me, and therefore unsure whether it kept them. The writing was excellent; the characters, mildly annoying and frustrating; the plot, such as it was, not entirely satisfying - possibly because of the way I felt fragmented at the end. In summary, I felt challenged - a good thing; somewhat entertained by the ideas and the writing; engaged by the setting - up to a point; but not engaged by the characters, my favourite part of most stories. All this aside, your story is am excellent achievement. Well done. You clearly have skill as a writer, and I look forward to reading more of your stuff.

Yeah, Eisenheim and I have carved up the Robin Duncan marketplace. By the way, don't forget R.D. Pulfer, who shares our initials!!

That's great. I must apologise that I didn't get to your submission, but I guess you got plenty of good comments anyway. I guess my reading the proposal will be largely useless unless I've read the story! I will try to get to it, because I'm really interested to read the comment you got, and understand more about submitting, which I've never done.

Yeah, welcome Ethan. I do like ewe'r avatar - it certainly helps to have a sense of humour on here

Hey, it's cool. I'm a 'big' (read old) boy, and can take the slings and arrows. I was probably just lulled into a false sense of comfort as everyone around here is so polite... as well as being wise. Also, I feel like I'm often the one getting worked up about stuff, so it's nice to have different perspectives and styles of opinion to add to the mix. Bring it on

Okay, thank you again, Spieles, for your critique. I must admit it rattled me at first, and quite rightly so. It’s not that I was complacent, I'm always kind of nervous and keyed up when I submit, and always know I’ve got something wrong, but I think it’s the strongest reaction I’ve had to a submission on here in the near 3 years I’ve been participating. And it gives such an important perspective on the character of Magdi. I will, of course, tackle all your observations. Part I - Battle Scenes: Yeah, I agree that BS’s work on Wheel of Time is excellent. There is sooo much set-up that feeds into that final battle, so he’s got plenty to work with, but to succeed in wrangling all of that into writing the battle that he did is a great achievement, I think. I will attempt to add some interest to my short battles in HtB, but the last thing I want to do is extend them. Good challenge then. - Harth’s motivation: I agree that this is weak, and something I need to punch-up. Others have flagged this to some degree, so it’s one of my major issues for Edit #1. Your comment about raising the stakes is interesting. I agree that I need a bit more set-up to the battle. If not the first one, then certainly the second one, to give the reader something more to go on in order to understand, or at least relate, to the stakes. So far, so good – LOL! Part II - “Oh, Commander, my commander”: Okay, we’ve been through this, and a decent proportion of people seem to get the irony, but I need to get that nearer to 100%, so I will tweak the context and bit, reference to Magdi’s demeanour especially, and addressing the word ‘demure’ that follows. - Magdi’s behaviour: So, clarifying her irony in making the first statement will not excuse how badly I ‘stormed up’ this scene. (See what I did there? Take that, evil suppressors of freedom of potty-mouthed expression!) My aim with the scene was to confirm that Magdi and Harth knew each other (after implying it on the parade ground), to show that they were intimate (regardless of the basis of the intimacy), and to get them into bed on a comforting and supportive level (no hanky-panky). Clearly, I failed in that for a significant proportion of the readership, and I think you struck on the key factor in your entirely justified rebuttal when you said “No former prostitute would ever say these things.” I think it’s Magdi’s dialogue that is formulaic claptrap. Description needs to be better too, no doubt, but I think her dialogue condemns this scene to engendering the wrong reaction. Thank you for those suggestions, btw, which will help me to explore different approaches to the scene. - Magdi ‘dying’: On this point, yes, it’s certainly portrayed as if she dies, and I think I failed adequately to deal with the fact (setting aside the ending of the story) that she is not dying, but moving on, progressing to the next state of being (or not). I feel that if I handle that better, I can build up the positivity of her gaining the next level (so to speak). Interesting suggestion on Magdi’s timeline, it doesn’t exactly fit what I had in mind for her character (when I get it right!), but it’s nice to bounce suggestions around. Finally, and I know this will sound defensive but, I really don’t want you (or anyone else) to think I'm some kind of misogynist hack (I'm a whole other kind of hack). In my last novel, Waifs and Strays, two out of four POVs are female characters, and I reckon the females were the most proactive, whereas the males tended to be reactive. (And Mandamon, before you cast Ahma up to me, I'm counting Rhemis as co-opting Ahma’s agency until later in the story, so :op ) Anyway, thank you again, Spieles – I do appreciate the challenges you have set me for editing this story. I'm hoping to revise the ending / Part 2 and resubmit in a couple of weeks in that hope that you guys might have another bash at it.

Good luck!

Yeesh, not sure. I don't think the guidance for this thread says anything about such things. As to the guide for the 17th Shard site - I've never seen it. On a personal level, such a post wouldn't bother me, but I'm a minority of one. I reckon this is why Silk gets paid the big bucks (metaphorically speaking), to make calls on such weighty topics.

Kaisa, really appreciate your comments, super-helpful. My thoughts below.

Thanks for reading, guys. I really appreciate how many people took the time. I'm seeing the ending transforming in my mind. It's still taking shape, but I think I need to press on in the coming days and implement a fix while it's all still fresh. Mandamon: Excellent comments thank you. Mechanics issues noted. I'm so pleased that 'High Commander' and their prior relationship came through for you, but enough people (I think? I'm losing track), didn't get it that I'll flag a little better. The love thing, yes, and the resolution, definitely. The Traveller is not dealt with satisfactorily, absolutely. I'm thinking I stopped 1k/2k words too soon, and the 'awakening' isn't right. Thanks, man - really helpful comments Kammererite: Thank you for reading. Super comments about the tactics. I'll think about that. As for defending the wall vs. fighting on the bridge, I'll need to mull on that. I feel a cop out coming on about not having the equipment (oil, boulders, etc.) to rain death on the attackers. I will tidy up the blocking in the last attack, I agree that's a problem. As for the end, it's a 'suicidal' move, but I don't think he sees it that way. As someone said, I need to get into his head more, certainly at the end. Excellent point about the ranks - that's kind of how of feel. I appreciate that some people might get hung up on it, but it's not Agincourt (or some later battle to fit your time frame), so I'm going to stick with the ranks and hope most readers read past them. You may be reading more sooner than you think - if I write a new end I'll see if I have the nerve to post it up, maybe following Monday Asmodemon: Final battle will get an overhaul for sure, thanks for cementing this in my mind, and the end is going in the bucket (i.e. bin/waste/refuse) - but not entirely, a major reconfiguration. I'm happy with your reaction about Magdi, but need to edit her through-line to get a more consistent reaction to her role. I have totally dodged the meaning of it all, that will take some pondering on my part as to how to deal with it, or whether to distract the reader with a much, much, much better ending. Xikuon isn't supposed to mean anything but, by the same token, leaving him as such a blank slate probably is a mistake. I will review. Ending: yes, the more I read all these great comments, the more I see a more effective resolution - whether it's any good remains to be seen, but I have a vision of it. Thanks so much

Thanks RD - yeah I had a hoard vs. horde issue - I think I've search-and-replaced them in the second part. Glad this is working for you so far - but be prepared for a whole raft of broken promises in this first draft, I'm afraid Thanks for reading!

Interesting, very interesting. The genre shock aspect is a good point, and I can make adjustments to that. The prostitute angle was not intended to be a major factor, and Magdi seems to have been pigeon-holed in that respect. I appreciate there is next to no ground work in relation to this, but I imagined a camp follower, possibly the wife of a soldier who was killed as has nothing to fall back on, someone surviving as she can an needs to from time to time, rather than a 'career' courtesan. Be that as it may, the big question need more work, or some kind of resolution. I can't answer them any better than anyone else (i.e. meaning of life, good vs. evil, etc.). Where I feel the story lacks most here is with the Traveller who tends to act as a focus for there questions. Thanks again - I need to really take a look at this story. I'll probably set it aside for a bit before revisiting.

Thank you, Eisenheim, for challenging these issues so strongly. After my initial defensiveness (internally), it forces my to confront them. Magdi - I'm taking the positive that it worked on some level, and I know I can get much closer to my original intention with some fairly easy fixes, like hanging a bigger lantern on their previous association. Nobody likes crawling skin, I can tackle that issue. More in my response to Spieles. Enemy at the gates - Clearly, I need to frame this better but, due to Harth's mistake (which he doesn't really confront), the enemy flanks them with enough troops to engage Dumkald's hundred soldiers at the gates. The outnumber the gate guard push them back enough to get at one of the gates, which is all they need. I can describe the mechanics of that better. It's all a dream - I know this is a hackneyed trope but, despite having been writing for over 30 years, I am not not advanced in the process of plotting, finishing and submitting. I have never submitted a story for publication and only recently (2 or 3 years) been seriously pursuing writing. I have never written a dream story, so it was an experiment for me. It turned you off, fair enough. It's a first draft, I can make the story better. This will almost certainly not get over your overriding problem, but I have to try to learn from it. My I'm the writer who can reinvent the dream story. Rofl, I'm not, but I have to try. If you'll bear with me, I'm going to ask some questions that maybe everyone else knows the answer to, but just consider me a dumb Jock (original Scottish variety) for the purposes of this exercise. And I'm not trying to changing your mind, of course, I'm just asking questions. 1 - Why should Harth's character be any different in the real world than in the dream? Robert Jordan and Sanderson latterly spent chapters in the dream world of Tel'aran'rhiod (the World of Dreams) and also the Wolf Dream. Okay, waaaay better realised than my puny effort, but it seems to me the only difference at a fundamental level is that in those fine examples, the reader knew they were in a dream. Still, it was the same characters to all intents and purposes acting largely in the same way. To me, it's not a character issue. I'm trying to tell you about Harth's life through the story. 2 - Why doesn't it mean anything if he learns something fundamental about life from it? I certainly draw from my dreams (which are much less 'interesting' than Harth's). 3 - I don't see why the questions are invalid because they are in his head. They are still questions - where they manifest, surely, is irrelevant. 4 - I know this dream 'drop' at the end is bad form, but I find it interesting that you didn't react badly to the story being set in the afterlife which, arguably, is no more real than a dream. Almost all our worlds are imagined, why is a world imagined by a character in a story any less valid? I think it all come down to the reader's trust and, arguably, not respecting it by using this trope. Well, that helped me! Thanks again for the work-out.