Robinski

It IS a nice idea, and I like some of the possibilities it would introduce. A potential challenge however would be avoiding making Amra's pining (too strong?) for a little shop not seem hypocritical, when her philanthropy would be undermining it, to some degree at least.

Yeah, and you could make her a (very) competent negotiator, but having that weakness (nice idea). Her being a good negotiator need not mean that they would be a lot more successful, as she would only be able to work with whatever cargoes Prot can scare up. Having him look more like the challenged one of the pair would raise the personal stakes (it seems to me) and make their exchanges more tense, but importantly, more balanced.

Yup, I had that very thought - well put.

Hey Alfa, great to read something by a new voice on the forum. I code all my detailed comments according to MRK’s espoused ABCD method. (A) = Awesome; (B) = Boring; (C) = Confusing; and (D) = Disbelief (-inducing). Now also including their nerdy classmate who nobody spoke to in high school, (G) which is for Grammar/typo, an essential adjunct to the ABCDs! The detailed stuff is below however, overall, I'm sorry to say that I am really struggling with this. There are soooo many people and places and titles and things and facts, and they all seem to have complicated relationships and duties and positions. None of it is explained and it comes so fast that it’s impossible to understand any of it. The most important thing though, is that none of these people is really given any character, I don’t get to spend enough time with any of them to know them, to understand what they want or if they are intelligent, admirable, noble, brave – I don’t know anything about any of them. The only reason I read is to meet interesting people and watch them struggle and overcome obstacles to reach their goals (or not). Nothing in this first chapter suggests that there is anything for me in this story. <R> --------------------------------------------- (G) – “the engine sank in the waves” and I guess you meant the passenger compartment was upside down? I didn’t that ‘head down’ made that entirely clear. (G) – I would say the Centa “suffered a head wound by a piece of broken metal...” or some wording like that. The metal is in her head, or sticking out of her head. ‘Against’ implies it has not penetrated. (G) – “who hung in her chair” (G) – “face hidden behind a duster, eyes silvery like the stars.” (G) – “he didn’t say a word.” (G) – “Equally silent, he brought her to his vehicle...” – It’s not clear here whether you mean the initia (although I presume you do), because the last name mentioned is the centa. (G) – “the star triangle of the holy church...” In the first instance, you capitalised ‘Holy Church’. It’s just a matter of consistency. For me, you could capitalise ‘holy church’ or not, just sticking to the same convention. When it comes to capitalisation in general, I believe that a lot of it that you see in fiction is completely unnecessary. If you refer to ‘the Initia’, why is this any different from referring to ‘the Table’ or ‘the Sky’? I don’t think it is. If you are using it to distinguish a particular person by a title that belongs to them, then it absolutely should be capitalised, as in the Initia Morgenstern (for example). Sorry to rant here. We’ve debated this issue here before – all in an amiable way, of course!! (C) – On the ‘star triangle’ above, this sounds distinctly like the Star of David. Was that your intention? If not, I'm struggling to picture what a star triangle looks like. (G) – “deserted since for hundreds of periods (years?)” (G) – “sold it to other people like him” – this sort of sounds like other weapon-smiths, but presumably they would make their own. (G) – “went with the man to on his expeditions” (G) – “He taught here her where to find” – typo. (B/G) – “with a merchant ship in the ceremonial deep-blue robe of the late Centa Veora with carefully forged papers and pregnant” – Firstly, the phasing sounds like the ship is wearing the robe. Secondly, this is my first style point, which I’ve sort of been saving up so far. The style of the narrative is very dry. Things happen and are conveyed, but there is no emotion, that’s fair enough for the omnipotent viewpoint of the narrative, but it runs the risk of making the characters un-engaging. That might not be important in itself if these characters are not ‘stars’ of the story, but readers might end up putting the book down before getting to the interesting characters. (D) – “Neither spoke of the unborn child. Neither spoke the other’s name.” I struggle to believe this. She was there for four months and I've heard no cultural reason why they would not exchange names. Also, this absence of emotion, of feeling, reinforces the sterile tone and I reach the point of not caring to know any more about these apparently heartless people. (G) – “of poorness poverty and hard work” (G) – “pride, more pride and even more pride” – I find that kind of phrasing off-putting. It’s very writer-ly, by which I mean mannered. A wise man once said something like the reader does not want to see the writer’s skill, but just wants to be entertained. This, for me, is very much the writing showing. (B) – I cannot make head nor tail of the first paragraph on Page 2. There are so many names and terms that I haven’t heard before, and throwing them all together just makes me switch off. (B/C/D) – “Everybody knew what she was talking about” – Everybody but me. I feel more and more and I read on that I'm listening to a TV show that I’ve missed the first 5 seasons of. Imagine trying to make sense of Games of Thrones by starting at Season 6. It sounds like there is a rich history here, and now we are seeing interesting sounding characters, but there are too many to keep straight and I have no idea what they are talking about, other than a few snippets.

Silk acknowledged your request above and noted you on the list for tomorrow. Just a minor oversight, I think you can go ahead and submit as the fifth.

Sorry Kaisa, I would usually stick my hand in the air at this point, but I'm just really jammed at the moment.

Agreed, a more Tolkienian style, where magic just happens, although perhaps not used as quite such a blatant authorial device. I must admit, I find Brandon's heavily prescriptive application of magic rather oppressive at times, like it's in danger of sapping all of the mystery out of it. But, as an engineer, I do appreciate the need to explore the limitations and rules of a given system in order to be able to use it properly. Hey, I'm especially glad to have another European on the forum - someone to talk to when all the North Ams are asleep!! ;o)

I wonder if I might have a slot on Monday. I'm right at the start of a new project, and I'd like to post up a sample text, really a character portrait, to get your opinions before I get properly into the plotting, etc.

I'm not sure about the socially acceptable point. She certainly did engage more than one generation, which led of course to (certainly in the UK) both children's and adult's editions of the book being published. Somehow I never realy considered HP as fantasy in the same way as something like Middle Earth or Wheel of Time. I mean, do you consider BFG or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory fantasy? They are fantastical, but I struggle to put Roald Dahl in the same bracket as Tolkien and Lewis, or even Stephen Donaldson, David Eddings or my personal favourite, David Gemmell.

An excellent point, and I'll accept that HP could be classed as a milestone in the status of fantasy. To be fair, you didn't say that HP was a literary milestone, which I think the others are. Also, to be clear, I absolutely love HP, those books have a special place in my heart, since I read them to my daughter from the ages of about 7 to 10 - even though she certainly didn't need me to read them to her! I think it begs the question as to whether Robert Jordan can be considered to have a similar status (in the modern era) to Tolkien and Lewis in their day. Hard to say if he will be as enduring, or whether GRRM's shock and awe will drown out the more thoughtful and considered voice of RJ.

Interesting, I'm still working on my votes - I've got till 31st July - I can do it!

Hey, Alfa, great to have you onboard, I look forward to reading your stuff. Really interesting intro, it will be good to have another distinctive voice on the forum! Your line above did make me splutter. Harry Potter as a great milestones of fantasy - lol. I can see we may be going to have some interesting debates!! I think JKR could consider herself VERY lucky to be mentioned in the same breath as the other three!

I would completely endorse Kaisa's comments. If you're committed to Amethyst Tower and want to write and finish it, than don't be afraid of getting the slings and arrows (constructive ones!) and going back to adjust it. If it were me (which it's not!), I would submit some more to get a fuller range of comments on the chapters proper (i.e. not just the prologue), before going back to do a big revision on half your book, and then get comments that you could have picked up in the first edit.

I'm counting on it!

Muah-ha-ha. Clearly, Ahma would have kicked chull in this situation...

Seriously? Lol. The following is straight off G**gle... clearly this word was coined hundreds of years ago by someone who knew that I would be born into the world :-p carping ˈkɑːpɪŋ/ adjective difficult to please; critical. "she has silenced the carping critics with a successful debut tour"

Yeesh, are you by any chance a member of another forum where admins are The Lord Ruler; Sauron; The Dark One and Emperor Palpatine?

I really thought Amra was going to die - it's pretty much what Prot deserves for his behaviour, but not Amra of course! Yeah, I agree with Kaisa. Two of the crew were wounded by gun shots, but no damage from the blast? Even if it hits behind the Sureri, I would want the crew to be blown around, certainly superficial cuts and bruises. How about a lost limb or two?

Well then, here we go. I’ve picked out a couple of points as bigger ones to discuss above the line here, i.e. problematic threads (for me) that run through the whole story, not just this submission. For instance (D) – “I would have expected Amra to be out of the wagon as soon as the fight was over.” Gives not thought at all to Amra after the wagon crashes through the door and, afterwards, his first thought is for his wounded friend. When he does think of Amra, the ‘love of his life’, it’s in a cursory way. Right now I'm thinking ‘Ditch him, girlfriend – you can do way better.’ Then “I wanted to marry this woman, have children with her.” Prosecution rests, your honour. When a woman has to get shot for a man to realise how much she matters to him is not in a good situation. (A) – “a white bell tied to the very end of her braid chiming as she walked” – Yay!!! Well met, Rilan. Nice Easter egg for us Dissolutes! (Man, your converts need a better nickname than that!) (D) – “And who will pay for investigating all the medicine?” – This goes again to Prot’s naivety. Surely, that’s like asking who would investigate contraband coming into the US from Cuba, for example. Clearly, the government would investigate it. Is he really that dense? There’s a lot of ‘carping’ in this critique, but it’s all stuff that can be fixed easily in the edit, if you deem it fix-worthy. Overall, I thought the writing flowed very well. I was happy with the pacing and the action, and the premise was good too. I think the drama could be punched up in places, but the main issues for me were (1) – not being convinced by Prot and Amra’s relationship balance; and (2) – not being at all convinced about Prot’s acumen as a seasoned trader / business man / man of the world. I felt he was just too naive / knowledgeable about certain things. (3) – I never really felt I could differentiate one crew member from another. Do you need to have four(?) of them? If so, I think you need to risk accusations of telling by ‘lining them all up’ like the Usual Suspects and giving us the basics, like short one, tall one, skinny one; a bipedal lion and a three-legged horse, etc. And then remind us during the story of those basic characteristics. I know that’s a bit crass, but I feel like it’s needed when you have such physically different races that are not really marked out through the story. Summation, I enjoyed it. I was very satisfied being back in the Dissolution-verse, and it made me want to go back a read Seeds of Dissolution. Good job, sir. <R> ------------------------------------------- (C) – “In the last five hundred cycles, more civil wars have been fought on the ten species’ homeworlds than all the wars fought between species combined” – This did not strike me as surprising, but rather seem inevitable. (G) – “who vehemently deny the question” – I think you can deny an assertion, or refute(?) a question, but I'm not sure about denying a question. You can’t deny that a question has been asked, but you can refuse to answer it. “Her padded feet made no noise at all as she crept off” – Awkward phrasing. (D) – “If they’re even planning to pay us” – The fact that there is a squad of heavies waiting makes the Sureriaj seem complete inept, compounded by Prot suggestion that they might not pay. The villains do not want their plot discovered. The surest way to draw unwanted attention is a swindle the courier and create a stramash. Far better to pay up and send them on their way, unharmed an oblivious. (D) – I’ve seen nothing to suggest that Amra would protest about being banned from participating in gun play. (B) – “And this would keep her safe.” – Biiiig tell, and the following lines, including “She understood, even if she didn’t like it.” (B) – “Don’t you get hurt,” she warned. “I want you in one piece after this” – My cliche-o-meter is on high alert after my last critique. The only way you get away with this line is if the batteries fall out. (G) – “let in limited light” – This phrasing sounds off to me, it sounds like the light is limited before it reaches the dusty windows. I'm thinking more ‘limited the light entering the building’ – or similar. (C) – “Three more men and another woman came forward to join her, just as unidentifiable as the first” – The first bit is awkwardly wordy. Also, he seemed to identify the race and origin of the first woman, so it seems she was entirely identifiable. (D) – “it might be nine of us against the aliens instead of four” – Most of Prot’s crew are aliens, I think his xenophobia is untucked. (B) – “Yer’ve let too much slip to our employees” – The dialogue around this part is rather tell-y. (C) – “four more loud retorts” – I think ‘report’ is here, certainly in British use. (G) – “another of the aliens clutched at his throat” – seems to me he is the first one to clutch his throat. (C) – “the safety of the wagon” – relative safety, I would think, and short term. (G) – “still keeping her face toward facing the enemy. (D) – “Talk,” I said curtly to Yatulnath” – if his hearing is messed up, maybe he would be shouting (unnecessarily), maybe he would be shouting. Ah, wait, he is now, but not because of his hearing, I think. (A) – “Shall I guess which is the brother” – family member roulette, ouch! Actually, this says more about Prot than anything else. Just the basis of the judgement, a brother is more important than a cousin. Ah, you explain that after I became confused. (C) – “Any Methiemum living on the cold, dry world would deal with extreme social prejudice from the Sureriaj.” Prot’s missing the point though. In time, the relative birth rates would end up with the Sureriaj being swamped. (D) – “He struggled to his feet fast enough to push my gun away from his head” – Struggling is not a quick thing, methinks. (A) – Mostly, I like the dynamics/pacing of the stand-off/skirmish. Also, in this dialogue with Yatulnath, you reveal legitimate concerns and the fact that he is the hero of his own story, well done. (D/B) – Who shot Prot? I didn’t understand that, and it also bothered me that we was put down, it felt like a plot device to make things worse or to close out the scene. What does it add? (D) – “Her accounting side, only working with certainties” – Err, as the owner of a business employing 35 people, I can assure you that accountants do not work in this way. Part of their job is to take uncertainties and estimate the likely outcome, possibly a best and worst case, perhaps a pessimistic outcome, to allow a business to plan for the future. I think this is what Amra did by not telling Prot, so I'm not criticising the line per se, just his lack of understanding as a ‘businessman’. (C) – “It will reduce inflammation and stabilise her metabolism until we get to the hospital” - ? (D) – Why to the knock Prot out? Why are the operating on three people in one open surgery? Why do they let all these people in? It seems like a free-for-all, hardly the epitome of sophisticated modern medicine. (C) – I find the scene aftermath of the surgery choppy and confusing. I think that could be tied up. Feels like there is a leap or two in there. (D) – The events in the hospital seemed odd to me. The medical procedures random and haphazard, operating on three people in one room? And if Prot loses consciousness one more time... It feels like a device to skip boring bits of the story. (A) – “Others knew. Even if we did nothing, this…this majus would take care of it. It wasn’t just us anymore.” – I enjoyed the palpable sense of relief of a burden shared. Ironically, I get a sense of the weight of everything coming down on Prot at this point, like a realisation now that he has a chance to absorb what has happened. (C) – “Could you make the whole Baldek family die out” – Eh? But there’s no Shivers epidemic on Sureriaj, why would they take it? And the Baldeks know about the stuff, so they certainly would not take it. I'm confused. (D/C) – “we can start a full-scale search for the rest of the contaminated medicine” – But we've heard already that they are already onto the bad medicine, so Prot’s crew are getting a lot more credit than perhaps they deserve. Did they really stop a war? I find that hard to believe. (B) – “No more deliveries” – Bored is a strong word to use, but I feel like that end could have more of... something. I think this line didn’t quite land for me because I have the crew placed as traders, not just delivery men/women.

Firstly, thanks for submitting, I always have a keen sense of anticipation to read a new author on the forum. Welcome! I’ve put some detailed comments below the line, but in overview, I found the opening rather generic and it did not do much to move me. However, I thought that attack on the village was effective, and that you disguised the enemy outflanking his army quite well. I felt that the prologue came alive when they returned to the village and discovered the attack, I really felt the emotion of his discovering his family dead. In terms of the style, I found myself disconnecting in various places due to certain word choices and punctuation, certain phrasing too. I'm not going to go to line-by-line level, unless you particularly want that. A good edit certainly would tidy up much of this issue. Also on style, there are a lot of beats here that are very familiar, the single tear on his wife’s cheek; coming back in one piece; telling his daughter a well-loved story; ready as I’ll ever be; the sooner we leave the sooner we return. I fear that these sorts of things verge on cliché, but some judicious editing and rephrasing could punch the narrative and the dialogue up to be more interesting. (Reading the comments now, I see I am not alone in this thought!) I believe that prologue is best used for conveying information that cannot reasonably be done in the story proper. Not knowing where your story starts, it’s hard to say how effective this prologue is. The background that was conveyed seemed to come in a chunk of exposition, told straight out. Thanks for submitting, I'm looking forward to reading the start of the story proper. It’s difficult to get a real sense of a piece from one submission, especially a prologue, so I'm definitely keen to read more. <R> ------------------------------------------------------------------ “Do you have to go, papa?” – comma required, imho. “Her hands clutched his back, telling him that she didn’t want him to go either.” – I don’t think you need to tell us this, it’s evident from her physical reaction, I suggest letting the reader may the inference from that action. Showing rather than telling is usually more satisfying. Similar thing when you explain how his words make Everette feel important. The man on the horse appears out of nowhere, but I’ve got no sense of the environment. There could be a column of soldiers marching past. I don’t have any description of sights, sounds, smells, etc. “raspier” - I was surprised to learn this is a word, I didn’t think it sat well here. “they were sending less fewer warriors against his army” – grammar “The fighting was victorious for his men.” – Grammar – His men were victorious, not the fighting. I don’t get why he is just walking around in searching for Everette and doesn’t sound more panicked. If it’s because he is carrying a dread of finding her killed then I think you could bring that out more.

Some great comments there, Carcinios, thank you, and yet more aspects for me to think about when I come to edit HtB next time around. Some proper teasers as well, which I will need to think carefully about. Thank you for taking the time, much appreciated. <R>

Ha-ha. Thieves World is an excellent example of the multiple author scenario, but that's another story (or should I say series of stories). Personally, no. I have completed four novels. One is contemporary, but the three fantasy ones are in different worlds. This said, the first and third of the three are planned as separate triologies, and the second is one of a 6 (7?) part cycle of novels, novellas and short stories. I don't think I would want to be limited by having to stick to a single overarching mythos, but would always want to be able to start with a blank slate. Then again, maybe I'd feel different if I created something good enough that I didn't want to leave and have another shot at it!!

Never too late, thanks RD, much appreciated. I always look forward to your comments, which cut to the chase, no messing around It's tempting to include something more about Magdi and Harth's backgrounds. It's a good challenge for me to pick up in the next edit, to include more substance in that area with a minimum of extra text! I think I'm going to do that, as several people have mentioned it. Thank you again. And hey, what are you working on yourself - we gonna see any of your stuff sometime?

Great comments, thank you Krystalynn. In this round, I've had some great suggestions and pointers, and there has been a great consistency to the comments that really encourages me that I've got clear targets to address in the next edit. I've also had a couple of light-bulb moments that I think will strengthen the story. I will put it down for a while though, and start on a new project as I work through Season 10 of Reading Excuses, the one which they set up as a 'masterclass'. I'm still determined to get caught up with RE before the end of the year. Thank you so much for the line-by-lines, to you and Spieles, sorry I haven't responded on them directly, but I sure am grateful and will be delighted when I pick them up on going back to HtB.