Robinski

Thanks for the great comments, NeonGrey. This one is bang on. Exactly what I have in mind for the character. I can debate with myself whether I managed this by accident or design, but I'm glad that you saw it this way. His character is certainly intended to go deeper than that of a mere popinjay. That's fine - I accept that. She isn't really tied down in my thoughts, so that should improve as things develop. One of the WE exercise coming up soon is to write the scenes before and after the dead drop scene, so that will be my next opportunity to smooth off some of the rough edges, hopefully. Again, I'm perfectly happy with such comments. It's one pass at this style and very much not worked through in terms of logic or feel, just s sketch of how the android's PoV might look. As others have noted, I would not presume to have big slabs of this stuff but, if the 'robot' does appear as an important character, I will put a lot more into his specs, as it were. Super comments, thank you so much.

Kaisa, honestly, you're incorrigible! I hadn't even thought about that angle. His sexuality is not well defined yet, it's the first I've written of these chrs, so it's early days. Agreed. The underlines were notes for me - they would come out certainly. Really? Anyway, this scene is in the middle of something, if I even use it, so I would make sure her age was well established earlier in the story. Thanks so much for the comments, Kaisa - much appreciated. An almost-published-in-fiction author read my stuff!! *swoon* Thank you ;-)

Yeah, more and more, I'm afraid :-/

Lol - I heard a guy got shot in someone's front yard...

Yeesh, Pokemon GO?! If only I did not spend so long playing Taichi Panda and trading Star Wars cards on the Topps app, I could take the moral high ground (And Premier League Fantasy Football, and NFL Fantasy Football, and...)

But don't bother reading the story, I was just meaning the comments on why 'It's was a dream...' was profoundly unsatisfying for some (most) people who read that.

Normally, I'm a bit 'meh' about epigraphs, but I agree that they could be a real boon for the reader given the complexity (good thing!) of the background. Also, I'm not averse to feeling a bit confused if the m/c is showing the same signs, but I'm not sure Lasila is, so far.

Yeah, that should work. Go for it.

ROFL

Yup.

Hey, looking forward to this much anticipated (looking at you, @Kaisa!) instalment of the story. I'm seeing it as the culmination of the first part of the story, narratively, so I'm interested to see where Lasila ends up at the end. In summary, I enjoyed this chapter and it did deliver the reveal that I was hoping for, which turned out to be Lasila’s magical potential. Exciting for reading on to see her presumably becoming embroiled in political shenanigans. Where I was disappointed was in the orgy, not from any lascivious desire to see gory details, but because of the almost complete absence of passing reference to any debauchery taking place. Lasila averted her eyes once on the stairs, and there was reference to some doors being closed, but that was about it. As I say, I don’t need details, but I need to feel that ‘stuff’ is going on, that it is actually an orgy, which I didn’t. Otherwise, I think some of the labyrinthine details of politics and geography will benefit from the edit. I hope I am of above average intelligence, I would settle for 70th percentile, and I did feel I was not getting all the details of the background events and relationships. I'm sure an edit would <R> --------------------------------------------- “But Iluya seemed skilled at covering over any of Lasila's missteps, wherever they were. The difference in their heights didn't seem to trouble Iluya at all” – I'm trying to teach myself not to use ‘seem/seemed’ and words like that, which don’t really (there’s another!) commit to the idea. The first instance here, I think is fine, because Lasila doesn’t know the missteps, but she can see if Iluya is troubled or not. “she let Iluya spin her out and then back” – I would like a little blocking of the dance floor. Is it crowded, quiet; the temp of the dance; the source of the music? Unless this is WRS and it was in the last submission. “Iluya's snort was entirely inappropriate” – excellent. “Lasila looked down at Iluya's face” – I pictured Iluya as taller, for some reason. “And I am not by nature the marrying sort” – This feels like repetition. “driving her a few steps back” – Again, I’d like to know about the danger of bumping into people, or how noticeable this pair are on the dance floor. Then there’s “navigating her toward the balcony” – navigating through or past what/whom? “But it was quite a stir, I understand, to learned that they practiced forms unknown to our arcanists” – grammar seems off here. “She let a white powder trickle out” – or similar. “strange characters that Lasila couldn't read, even upside-down” – surely she is even less likely to be able to read the symbols upside down. “she might as well go all in” “Indeed it could, Essa Vahendra” – I really enjoyed this scene, it’s the climax that is was hoping for to Lasila’s journey to the temple (so to speak) through the first part of the story. There are some nice big concepts and ideas revealed effectively through Maranthe. I thought this exposition was natural and not dumpy at all. “The fungus is always warmer on the other side of the cavern” – lol. “but they just needed a drink in hand to look social” – sociable? “didn't accidentally stick anything into your worst enemy” – excellent. “Their glass dropped to the floor, spilling out on the ground” – Surely the glass would smash, but this does not sound like it. “Better whiskey than he usually got his hands on” – Boo, hiss. Don’t they have Scotch in this place ;o) “there are places you don't leave fluids behind” – awesome line. Good scene between Savae and Aserahin.

Thanks Spieles, I value your opinion and I love that you a different reaction to Moth. Her behaviour and Quirk's narcissism are reactions to how life has treated them (so far). I haven't written more than a few notes on background. I have yet to write full profiles, but I'm really looking forward to it. Writing Excuses Season 10 is really helping me zero in on how I put stories together.

Kudos @spieles

yes!

Because you made it happen - you've only got yourself to blame :op

Sweet. So, do you work closely with the editor on tuning between now and end of year? And just tell me to put a sock in it if I'm asking took much or the wrong questions!! We've never had a novel sale on RE that I can think of, couple of shorts I think. Happy to be corrected.

Hey Hellas! Good to have you back. So, I'm interested to read the new version to see what's changed and, since I have a memory like a sieve, my comments should be untainted by former knowledge. (All of it lost, like tears in the rain...). Without further ado, I’ll jump straight in. Summation at the end. (...Ok, just a little bit of ado – all my detailed comments are now coded according to MRK’s espoused ABCD method. (A) = Awesome; (B) = Boring; (C) = Confusing; and (D) = Disbelief (-inducing). Now also including their nerdy classmate who nobody spoke to in high school, (G) which is for suspected Grammar/typo issue, an essential adjunct to the ABCDs!) Just to add to the fun, I’ve pasted your aims in here so I can track them as I type. I’ll try and cross-refer back to them, unless the numbering gets silly. 1. A tale of Overcoming personal loss and severe psychological damage. 2. A Deconstruction of the good vs. evil story with quite a bit of grey in the middle. 3. A large cast of unique Characters the reader can sympathise with. 4. Main characters that are mobile and Develop as a people. 5. Most of all, a fun, Enjoyable story. ------------------------------------------------- (G) – "He wordlessly gestured at the macabre scene below" - 'wordlessly' is superfluous, we can see he doesn't say anything. Then you say 'lost for words' doubling up on the superfluous bit. (C) – How is it that we knows what Lucifer's eye colours mean, but we don't know about Hellas'? Is it because we're in Lucifer's PoV? In that case it seems strange that he would remark on his own eye colour. (G) – "destined to wither and die" - not 'whether' (D) – I'm not happy with the phrase "weed in the desert". Weeds are excellent adapters and thrive in the right circumstances. But how can a plant in the desert be considered a weed, when any life is pretty much a surprising thing. Conversely, if a weed existed in the desert, presumably it would only be there if it was capable of to thriving, otherwise it would not be considered a weed, but simply a plant. So, Abaddon is the voice in Lucifer's head? It's kind of disappointing to find that out so soon, when it could have been a mystery running through the story. (G) – "His Vault" - I don't see any reason to capitalise 'vault'. (G) – "Hellas grimly watched" - you have a real tendency to split the infinitive. I haven't keeping score, but I think that's a handful now. It's the old Star Trek 'to boldly go'. I think it sticks out a mile and, honestly, is not great form grammatically speaking. (D) – "unable to conjure any concrete proof" - you don't conjure proof, that's tampering with evidence, that is. (C) – To me, Hellas entered the portal first, but he may not have emerged first. Still, this would mean needing to revise the comment about Satan beating him to the portal. (D) – I think this was a problem the first time. I find it hard to believe that the Host don't have round-the-clock guard schedules and would therefore be alerted. I think Hellas should be questioning why the Host guards didn't raise the alarm, which they would have done under normal circumstances. I think the lack of resistance still feels contrived for story purposes. (G) – "leaving a trail of golden flakes of light in his wake" - awkward phrasing – it’s the double ‘of’, I think. (G) – “none of them had been forced to put their lives on the line in a real fight” – This sounds like they would be fighting under duress, not putting their lives at stake willingly. (G) – “Catherine murmured to herself” – I feel that this is obvious, and therefore unnecessary. (G) – “his wide, panicking eyes” (G) – “His eyes were wide, the irises a pale, panicking purple. Something was wrong” – very repetitive, and the last sentence is really obvious and therefore very ‘tell-y’. (B) – “A determined shade of steel grey had replaced the panicking amethyst irises” – Is this thing with the changing eye colour going to go on all through the story? I presume so. I must say I'm starting it find it annoying, like I have to wait to hear about the eyes colour when anyone does or says or sees anything, before the next thing happens. (A) – “What they lacked in training or equipment they made up for in numbers, with Fallen throwing themselves at the Host with insane — and often suicidal — fervour” – Despite what I said about my memory earlier, I think that I'm more convinced about Lucifer’s attack and the numbers involved than I was the first time. (A) – “Unlike Hellas, there was no calm in his eyes; they were jet black and furious” – I like this line. It’s not that I hate the eye thing universally – I would maybe thin it out so it has more impact when you use it, and let the reader interpret it rather than making rather obvious statements about the character’s mood. (B) – Here’s what I mean. “Hellas recognised the pale yellow flare of surprised and the raised eyebrows” – A child knows what raised eyebrows mean, it’s the repetition and telling that are bothering me. Are you planning later to skip telling the reader someone is surprised, and just use ‘Michael’s eyes flared yellow? If not, the dialogue tags are going to be heavy with description. (G) – “You don’t think…’ he began” – I find this ellipsis construction a bit melodramatic when used in dialogue, like I'm expecting “... the Spanish Inquisition!!!” Sorry to be flippant, but I thought the illustration would make the point. (G) – “After everything we’ve been through together” – I guess? (A) – “He decapitated one guard, disembowelled another and sliced a third clean in half before Lucifer had a chance to scramble to his feet” – excellent, swash that buckle! I like it. Another recollection I have from last time was that the secondary characters didn’t get much to do, if I remember correctly. This is much more like it. (B) – “Lucifer smiled in a failed attempt to appear relaxed, nonchalant. The briefest spark of vermillion irises betrayed his anger” – awkward, and somehow strange in POV terms? The biggest thing is, once again, the telling. For contrast, consider “Lucifer smiled, but the briefest spark of vermillion belied his seeming nonchalance.” The reader is smart enough to know that red means anger. (C) – “A group of twenty angels poured around the corner, pushing and shoving at each other in an attempt to outrun whomever was chasing them. The panicked crowd screeched to a stop when they saw him standing in their way. Their simple, workmanlike clothes were bloodied and tattered.” – So, everyone in heaven is an angel. It sounds weird hearing them acting ignobly like this. (G) – “Obviously not the Host, Hellas thought with a silent sigh of relief.” – I suggest that if you say it’s obvious, the reader will wonder why you're bothering to tell him/her, so I would drop it. (D) – “The panicked crowd screeched to a stop” – What? Do they have rubber tyres? I'm picturing Bugs Bunny or some such. I suppose the soles of their shoes might make a squeaking sound on the marble floor. (A) – I like the much earlier introduction of the White Faces, I think that’s a good move. I think you could do a bit more here to make the odds seems insurmountable and make it look like Hellas is a goner for sure before pulling this unexpected card. There’s a danger of the reader thinking it comes out of nowhere, and they might call ‘cheat’, but the tension is cranked up, I think you could get away with it. (G) – “You’re all right alright” (A) – “The Or, forty three pillars suspended in the sky, slowly began to glow with glorious golden light” – I like the description of the city, but I (D) don’t believe the bit about speakers. This sounds like modern (human) technology. You might use the word ‘horns’, which would sound more in keeping. (B/D) – “The events of the dream had taken place twelve years ago” – Ha-ha, well know. I am hoist by my own petard, as Billy S. would say. I got a rollicking about two months ago for a short story I wrote with ‘It was all a dream...’ as the ending. On reflection, I deserved it. If you’ve got any spare time and you’re interested enough, you could look up the comment thread on “Hold the Bridge” (Part 2) – not the Redux version, but the original. There are various comments in there on why ‘it was a dream’ was unpopular. It’s not quite the same, I suppose, because that was my ending (now altered!!). Even Hellas standing at the window drinking as he consciously recalled these events would be more convincing, I think. I'm interested to hear what others have to say on this. Maybe I'm being oversensitive. ------------------------------------------------- Overall, I'm glad to read this again, and I think it has improved from last time. You can see my main gripes above, so I won’t repeat them. I think the dialogue could be a bit more interesting. Some of the lines sound a bit like stock phrases, compounded by the use of the ellipsis in places, I think. I like how you've used the magic in this version, I think it’s more convincing, and there was less (I think) of Hellas ordering Michael around, which always made me feel awkward. Michael is stronger this time, I think. Good job. I look forward to reading more. Finally, I didn’t cross-reference after all, but to answer your questions: 1. A tale of Overcoming personal loss and severe psychological damage. – No sense so far, maybe just a hint at the end, but that’s okay – we’re just finding our feet in the story. 2. A Deconstruction of the good vs. evil story with quite a bit of grey in the middle. – Reasonable start on this, and I'm going to be interested to hear what new readers think of those parts. 3. A large cast of unique Characters the reader can sympathise with. – I like Michael here, Lucifer is villainous in a fairly standard way. Catherine didn’t really get much to do. 4. Main characters that are mobile and Develop as a people. – We shall see. 5. Most of all, a fun, Enjoyable story. – So far so good. My gripes are more about style, and all easily fixed, I reckon. Welcome back! <R>

Er, I think both Meta-view and Meta-sight are better @Eagle of the Forest Path !! (p.s. Hey - I learned to '@' - thanks Eagle )

I was going to say something along those lines. Well done! Are you able to say when we can look out for AFD hitting the shelves?

Great comments, thanks Coop, much appreciated. Yup - it's across the board (so far), which is what I might have expected. I totally accept your point about Moth not leaving a lasting impression. I would not say that I consciously wrote her section that way, but I was conscious during it and reading back that I was not including the same amount or kind of world-building, or as many character clues (maybe just unanswered questions). Still, I'm totally happy with the reactions to Moth. My plan for the actual stories is for her to be a foil for Quirk, but not the enemy. So, her present lack of likeability is not a bad thing, and pretty much designed in - as I guess you can tell from the fact that I don't put any effort into trying to make his likeable! And your kind comments about style are very - thank you for reading!

Lol! In CAD, it's all about information being in 'layers', so that groups of objects can be switched on and off independently. The Layer is not very buzzy though. Doesn't really sound exciting or particularly intriguing. You could go acronym, like TAL or AL (the Augmented Layer), but AL sounds like AI - maybe that's a good thing, maybe it's not. Augmented Reality would be AR, of course - another option. The Augmented Reality = TAR. You could go a bit Niven-y and name it after someone. The Dyson Layer (I don't mean use the same name, of course!!). The Kepler Layer. The Sanderson Layer. You could go completely made-up name, but the problem I have with that is how do you avoid making it sound like a car make / model from (say) Korea? Is it a gaming thing? You could call it Level 1, Level 2 - or Layer One; Layer Two; Layer Three, if there are different grades of information. That's fairly boring too though. Something based around 'world' would tend to make it sound like a parallel universe, which it's not. Hmm, nothing's really catching my imagination, but maybe some of this rambling will trigger a thought for you.

I've just got to share this, it really tickled my funny bone. So, I'm still working my way through my Hugo votes and am looking at Best Fan Writer at the moment. I'm wading through an article about all that Sad Puppies stuff (yeesh) and came across a quote from Mike Resnik (although used in this context by Brad Torgersen), to wit (talking about Hugo nominations): "I have three now, plus a Nebula and a Campbell in the same year and two Analog magazine readers' choice awards. I think I've sufficiently demonstrated I know how to shove a noun up against a verb." Maybe this is old hat, but I just loved it

Thanks Mandamon, excellent comments, as ever, and pretty much the sort of reaction I was hoping for. I won't repeat what I say above to Eagle, but I hope to make these characters work together. Not seen Demolition Man in an age. I wonder what Wesley Snipes is doing now, I think he's out of jail. Interestingly, since I was in Milan with my family in about 2007, the McDonald's in the central 'square' (octagon) of Galleria Vittorio Emanuele has been 'forced' out of the mall so they could put in a second Prada store. I feel that's there's a story right there!! Thanks again, Mandamon, much appreciated.

Hey Eagle, thanks so much for the comments. Yeah, she is!! There's what I hope is a good reason for it that would come out in a story. I'm not entirely sure at this point where it's a short (I doubt it); a Novella (Hmm...) or a Novel (unlikely). My current plan is to write an initial story that I would like to turn into a series of episode (capers? possibly). In fact, I conceived it initially as having all three of these characters, so Mandamon is closer than perhaps he knew with the comment about Grimes. So, the reason I would be able to get away with Moth being a brat is by offsetting her against Quirk's more calm, coll and considered approach to life. I'm planning to work all through WE Season 10 with these characters, so there will be more story elements coming forward in coming weeks, I hope. But they will be WE exercises, so might be a bit fragmented rather than a continuous through line of narrative. Thanks again, Eagle.

Hey there. The following are portraits of three characters in a story I am planning. I am writing this story as I work through Season 10 of Writing Excuses, which is set up as a writing ‘masterclass’ for listeners to work through with a particular project they are writing. I'm near the start where main consideration is about characters. The particular exercise (homework!!) is as follows: (S10-E5) Take three different characters and walk them through a scene. Convey their emotional states, their jobs, and their hobbies without directly stating any of those. The scene in question: walking through a marketplace, and they need to do a dead-drop. Here is my attempt. I know there are issues with it, and certain things that I should go back and punch up, but I'm just trying to maintain progress at this point, so I'm not putting any work into polishing - apologies! The comments I'm looking for are all around the characters, although anything else that you might wish to comment on in relation to world-building, etc. is more than welcome. Thanks for reading!! <R>