Trusk'our

I think that we're actually more comparable to non-Shardworld humans that have no Innate Investiture but also aren't quite as bad as Drabs.

True, but that process hasn't been discovered yet and may be very difficult to actually put into practice. I suspect it will involve the construction of artificial Spiritwebs with raw Investiture that can then be spiked, as that is what Hemalurgy is designed to actually interact with. I don't mean that you separate the two halves and then spike each half- those would still count as a single being, as you say. What I mean is that you capture the spren, split the Gemstone and Spren inside it, then let each half grow into a new Spren. Then spike each new Spren. And yes, this process could very likely create Deadeyes in the process. But it wouldn't be humans or sapient Spren suffering at the very least.

SA spoilers: Minor Warbreaker spoilers; Hmmm, I think that we just turned this into a Cosmere Forum topic. . .

I don't think that Allomantic chromium works that way- it sends the Investiture back to the Spiritual Realm, but on a Shard, no matter how much Investiture you managed to use to Leech them, it would just cycle back to their pool of power. Now, if you somehow got a giant mass of silver (probably with lots of Soulcasting) and stabbed it into the Vessel of the Shard I think you could kill them, as silver can potentially destroy Spren. . .

I'm going to be perfectly honest here, I felt like there was a bit too much suggestive content in Yumi, Warbreaker, and anything but TLM (surprisingly) that included MeLaan. I mean, Brandon Sanderson is LDS, but he still puts those things in and it feels a bit weird and discomforting to me.

In RoW, Navani thinks to herself about trying to use Raysium to reconjoin two split Flamespren halves to please the Sibling, as Flamespren will apparently grow into two separate Spren if released and given Stormlight, if memory recalls (sorry, I don't have the book on me). So what if this process was made mass-scale? Hemalurgy as it stands now requires a viable Spiritweb to fuel it, and Spren can be spiked, so could you farm lesser Spren to get raw Investiture for something like nicrosil spikes without needing to hurt any humans?

All Koloss will continue to grow bigger as they age, but what happens if a human with dwarfism syndrome was turned into a Koloss? Would they still continue to grow, just with a shorter starting point? Also, what if in Scadrial's future modern medicine is able to use a procedure similar to how gigantism is cured (by cutting out the pituitary gland in the brain) on Koloss to try to stop Koloss's excessive growth? Would it work? Would the Koloss live as long as a human that way?

Yes, that is 100% possible. In fact, it should be possible to use the same spike to take out the same power multiple times since there would be no Identity contamination, allowing them to effectively supercharge that spike's powers, or possibly taking four powers belonging to the same Hemalurgic quadrant (such as Allomantic iron, steel, pewter, and tin with a single spike). But as @alder24 mentioned it would probably be better to use nicrosil Compounding if it actually can enhance your powers. I suppose you could create more permantent Mistings/Ferrings with those spikes though. . . but you could also probably just make some Unsealed Metalminds for your minions to use instead.

Interesting. I had assumed that the spikes the Set were using were Keyed (would that be the correct term here?) to Allomantic or possibly Feruchemical powers (actually, I had originally thought them Trellium spikes, but you convinced me otherwise on an earlier thread of mine- Practical Limitations on Supercharging Hemalurgy, though I thought you meant that the spikes were regular power-stealing ones, not nicrosil ones), but I don't see a reason they couldn't be nicrosil spikes. If that turns out to be the case- that non-physical attributes cause less deformation than physical ones- it could lead to some interesting things happening, such as perhaps letting Identity, Connection, and raw Investiture grafts being options for Hemalurgists that aren't fond of the idea of turning into constructs. Congratulations!

I imagine physical characteristics would come as part of the package, though Bindpoint placement would likely play a significant role in what characteristics come about. However, if physical characteristics are brought about by bearing spikes that contain parts of Spren, the most logical assumption about the physical and psychological characteristics they would bring would be similar to those of Listener/Singer Forms; Mateform would probably have exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics with an increase in libido, Nimbleform would probably be thin with relatively low stamina but an adaptable mind (which might actually be close to what humans would normally have psychologically), and Warform would be bigger, taller, and far more muscular as well as making the bearer of the spike more geared towards violence. But we don't really know what happens if you spike a Spren yet, though it's fun to hypothesize.

Could certainly be the case. Maybe it could be either one depending on the type of metal of the spike and Bindpoint it was placed in the recipient.

It's cool Uh, you may want to put number 50 in a spoiler box though, as it is directly tied to Warbreaker's magic system. Also @Tamriel Wolfsbaine you may want to edit your quote of @Longshot97 so that it is also in a spoiler box. Warbreaker spoilers: Interesting. Perhaps with some practice they could do so, though that would depend on whether they can alter things as small as DNA, molecules, and proteins. Honestly, it would be interesting to see if future Scadrial learns of all the ways Kandra can build/create/transform and if they could find a way to artificially grow and use detached Kandra flesh to make almost any biological product they needed. Yes, unfortunately; they can't seem to make non-living materials with their abilities for some reason, so basically anything that isn't fleshy is a no-go with them. I'd say that you can count it as long as it's in a spoiler box. Minor SA spoilers:

I didn't catch that part before. I think that the Returned could just place the spike in a non-lethal location- such as an earring- feed on the Investiture held within, then remove the drained spike. That way they wouldn't be needing to add another new spike to the total in their body at once. Yup, that might work. Brass would probably be even easier, as you could just sit in a fire and gather Investiture in a quicker method that way (Bendalloy might also be pretty easy). It worked for the Set's experiments, did it not? The Returned doesn't necessarily need a power to be stolen, just the extra Investiture that could have become a power to feed on. Because Hemalurgic nicrosil could be taking a human attribute (though this could be wrong, I suppose) instead of a power, which would cause major unwanted alterations to the bearer of the spike. Taking non-powered Investiture from a human Spiritweb has already been confirmed to be possible and can be grafted onto a recipient's Spiritweb without turning them into a construct, hence the reason I feel that it would be a safer bet for the Returned to use a spike made of steel or pewter than nicrosil to sustain themselves.

I was thinking more along the lines of a Worldhopping Returned, or one that didn't have anyone willing to give them their Breaths such as the ones that live outside of T'Telir and are regarded as vampires. Also, couldn't they use a power stealing spike- such as steel- then take a non-Allomancer's Investiture to use as fuel? Oh, it definitely would be less efficient. It just might be a way for a Returned to feed when there are no other options available.

Meh, there are a few kinks in the system to work out, but that's the fun part.

Lol, basically But hey, it's by far one of the easiest magic systems to get ahold of if not the easiest, which makes its use very plausible. Plus, it can directly change even the most core aspects of pretty much anything pretty with a functioning Spiritweb pretty much any way to want, so there's that too.

As you all know if you've read Warbreaker (as you should have if you are on this forum, I'd think) we know that Returned need to feed on a source of Investiture about once every eight Nalthian days or they perish. We also know that they can feed off of Investiture of other Shards than Endowment, such as Stormlight. But what are some other ways they could do this? Most in particular, could a Returned Hemalurgically spike someone, take their Innate Investiture and then breath it in and feed on it? Would they need to spike it into their body and use it up automatically like they would with Breaths?

As @alder24 mentioned, Spren aren't naturally going to be as susceptible to this kind of technique as the Nightmares were. I think perhaps if you were to fiddle with the Spren by Hemalurgically excising its Identity and then painting it that you could alter it to a greater extent though. Maybe you could shape and condition them to become a dangerous ally for yourself, particularly if it were a highly Invested type of Spren or if you were in Shadesmar.

Yes, all Godmetals have an extra thing that they do beyond the Metallic Arts; We can see this in SA too;

I had considered using Feruchemy to enhance Hemalurgy's use before, but I figured that it wouldn't work because the augmentations provided by it were only temporarily formed by an influx of Kinetic Investiture. That would mean that spiking the attribute the Feruchemist was tapping would have no bearing on the Invested charge of the spike. Only, I just remembered this WoB that states that such a thing is possible with a temporary change to the Spiritweb, such as with Forgery; I now believe this means that at least temporary spiritual Feruchemical enhancements (and not just Blanking Identity) can alter the creation of Hemalurgic spikes, as they should fall under the same parameters as Forgery. I'm not certain about the other quadrants of Feruchemy though, as they may not alter the Spiritweb enough to be spiked out (kind of like how F-Atium is only physical change and not a spiritual one). So, what could we do by combining spiritual Feruchemy and Hemalurgy? Aluminum: this one has been mostly explored before on the Forums, as the Blanking of Hemalurgic spikes may be able to be achieved by Blanking the Identity of a Donor during the spiking process. I do wonder whether you could possibly tap someone else's Identity temporarily and then spike out something from them that is specifically Keyed to the new Identity. Doing so could create a spike more efficiently tethered to the bearer's Spiritweb to let them Compound, use their powers more efficiently (WoB says that a Blanked Identity Metalmind tapped by a Blanked person would be slightly more efficient than a Blanked Metalmind with a non-Blanked person, hence the reasoning that a spike could work the same), and maybe allow for the creation of Resonances with Hemalurgy. This may require jumping through some hoops to manage, but maybe it could work. I'd still take it with a healthy dose of skepticism as we don't know a ton about Identity yet. Nicrosil: this is probably the biggest one there is. If you could augment your Allomancy with F-nicrosil and if you could spike that enhancement out, you could create spikes bearing tremendous power with relative ease. After all, storing, say, your A-pewter fully for a week and tapping it all in a brief moment while having it spiked out would create a Hemalurgic spike holding many, many times the standard power of a Pewterarm. I think that it also may be possible to have a non-Invested person tap an Unsealed Nicrosilmind, then spike the temporary power out of them, eliminating the need to spike a true Allomancer or Feruchemist at all. I'm a lot less certain about this possibility though, as the medallions that the Southern Scadriens use have been compared to the Honorblades (WoB, and WoB #2), which don't tie into the Spiritweb very effectively, which may very well prevent Hemalurgy from taking medallion-granted powers (though natural or Hemalurgic Feruchemical augmentations may still be on the table, as they are directly embedded into the Spiritweb). Duralumin: Hemalurgic spikes take a measure of the Donor's Identity along with whatever else is spiked out, such as their Allomantic or Feruchemical powers. I think that if the donor tapped Connection to a specific entity (or object, place, time, etc.) and the proper Intent and Command was used that Connection could be taken along with the spike (or a portion of it anyway) and grafted onto the spike bearer along with the standard power. This could potentially allow for a permanent web of Connections to be formed amongst a group of Hemalurgists by using a cental hub for all of them to Connect to, similar to how all Aetherbound are Connected to their respective Aether. If there isn't enough Connection that can be taken with a power spike, H-duralumin could probably be used to achieve the effect. Chromium: this one is by far the most mysterious of the Hemalurgic metals. It, apparently, can steal one's destiny, though it's the only thing on the Hemalurgy table that isn't guaranteed. I personally believe that this "destiny" is just a form of Fortune, though one that is specifically tied to an individual and what their Fortune would prompt them to do. The reason it isn't guaranteed is because the spike bearer would have their own destiny interfereing with the new one, potentially causing them to ignore their new fate. I think that tapping Fortune with Feruchemy would therefore effect the stolen Destiny, likely making it much easier to read it and lessen the chance it gets overlooked. Alright, that's all I can come up with now. Anyone else got some more ideas or comments/arguments to be made?

I think that this should work as long as the Spikes are able to have their Identity Blanked by the Hemalurgist bearing them. It is possible that they would be counted as another separate thing, but we can't be certain on that yet. As @alder24 mentioned, it also may be possible to Feruchemically Blank the Identity of the donor as the spike is being charged, which would potentially remove the need for you to bear an extra spike, although you'd need more cooperation from the donor. Also, if you were worried about needing an extra spike to make the process work, you could have an ally Hemalurgist hold the F-aluminum granting spike for you and Compound all the Feruchemical attributes you'd need. Then you take the filled Unkeyed Metalminds and use them as you please. It definitely requires more cooperation, but I could see a group like the Set pulling it off. Cool idea! Keep coming up with more!

Sweet! I'm hyped to hear it! I always love a good metallic Art hypothesis or theory. I'd be glad to hear what you think of some of mine as well! Edit: oops! I see that it's out now. I better go read it!

Mine too! I love all of the ideas that people can come up with to use them because they are so consistent. But Hemalurgy has to be my favorite of those three, I'd say.

Epic. I always love it when a new Cosmere fan enters into the fray. What is your favorite magic system by the way?

Hmmm, you know, that gives me an idea. . . 45. Nutrients transfusion: A Kandra with human allies in a hostile environment could eat and digest matter that their friends could not, then they could use their biological processes to convert them into something the humans could use. The Kandra then hooks themselves into the human's veins and delivers nutrients directly into their bloodstream. Or they could just grow detachable portions of meat the humans could consume. Ah, that could be useful, though they might have difficulty storing a lot at once. Maybe they could somehow use F-Bendalloy or F-cadmium to pull off storing more than they normally could? As for a spark maker they could just hold onto a device in their body, then use it to make a spark when needed. That gives me another idea. . . 46. Natural pepper spray: Like a bombardier beetle, a Kandra could create organs that could produce a burning chemical spray to blind opponents at close range. Could be useful to temporarily disable more powerful opponents. These are some good ideas! Also, I don't really want to be "that guy", but I think you did it again.