Quick Ben

The reason i mentioned Rlain, is two fold. 1. Making him the bondsmith of the sibling makes sense because we see the listeners who escaped about to become radiant at the end of RoW, who better to bridge the divide between listener radiant and human radiants then a listener bondsmith ? Dalinar/Navani won't. 2. Honour and Cultivation were the gods of the listeners before the humans were ever on Roshar, who better for a singer to become the bondsmith for then the child of Honour and Cultivation ? Also Rlain has a far deeper connection to Roshar and spren. Rabional also says the singers fail to learn, and find it hard to adopt new ideas. There is a scene in RoW where Navani waxing lyrical about being free to fully delve into scholorship im sure, don't have the book to had to find its location. And of course it is problematic if she thinks about being free to do scholarship. The tower is under enemy occupation, she has no idea of the welfare of the people within the tower, what she does is collude with the enemy,

Every time i come back to this thread, there is 3 pages plus of posts to go through so sorry if do not directly reply to people as others have, and considering there points would be similiar to my own replying would be slightly redundant. As ye are aware i am in the camp of "Navani not being worthy" nothing anyone has said would sway be from that point. But let me ask the "the Navani is worthy camp" this: If Navani had not bonded the Sibling, would ye be here arguing why it should of been her ? Above say Rlain ? Or indeed no one ? Alot of people are saying Navani did the best she could in a bad situation in the tower. I disagree with this. Mainly because she didnt have to do anything Rabional wanted, she could of kept the scholars doing nothing, she could of kept making fabrials as weapons as failed experiments etc Fact is she wasnt intimated into helping Rabional, she wasnt outsmarted and tricked by Rabional, she literally was gullible to the point i found it hard to believe and given she is has been dispicted as an intelligent woman up to RoW found it a bit out of character. Navani willingly jumps into the research for anti light etc because she sees it as "an opportunity to see whats shes capable of, when she is free to do "scholarship"" she has no thoughts of what happens if she is successful, she has no thoughts on wider implications of finding "anti light" in fact she doesn't think about anything except "being free to do it" Considering how irresponsible that is, she compounds it by writing it all down, once it was wrote down was inevitable what would happen, but she didnt care or decided to not see. Both are as bad as eachother. Now i realise, BS needed something to kinda be a leveller for how super powered radiants are and the fact how they are nearly unkillable, which is fine, makes sense, but Navani and her illogical actions was basically relegated to a plot device for this imo, This is what led to her being so gullible/unintelligent, lacking forsight etc etc, but those points are what make her unworthy as well, she never once comtemplates should i do this? As for the Sibling, she dislikes Navani because she captures spren, how does she feel now that Navani created a way to kill them ? Must be assumed the sibling knows, so adds to the Sibling saying "you are not worthy" Unless the Sibling was about to die i don't think she ever bonds Navani. Navani has plenty of leadership skills, she can hold things together even, for short periods of time, but being a unifier is about bringing people/countries together who normally wouldnt only for something or someone. Being a patron for scholars isn't doing this, as anyone with the means and interest could do it. Let me also say, while people point out others are not held to similar standards, i also don't think Dalinar is worthy, simple because he wasn't and wouldnt be only for Cultivation, thus he shouldnt be considered worthy on his own merit in my opinion. Navani might grow into being worthy, and i am open to that, just don't think she was at end of RoW, and i don't think the Sibling bonded her on her own merit, She did so to survive.

This is a fair point. But i would point to the Reacher bonding Jaxlin (might be spelt wrong - Venli's mother) at the end of RoW as a counter point to this, given the Reacher had no way of knowing anything about her character and was still able to bond her, i think it stands to reason that when comes to the first ideal it simply comes down to willingness of the spren. And when the choice was death or a bond, even to some one the Sibling herself found unworthy then of course she chose life so chose the bond. I see many people making points on Dalinar, in comparison to Navani, and they are all right, Dalinar until Cultivation remade him was completly and utterly unworthy. The only reason he became worthy was by being altered to the point he was a different person. (Unpopular opinion) Questionsable if he became worthy even after Cultivations intervention imo. The sum of Navanis accomplishments doesnnot equate to worthiness to bond a bondsmith spren in my opinion, mainly because 1. She never truly unifys people, yes she gatheres scholars together, but anyone could of done that, yes she keeps the coalition together when Dalinar goes awol, but she didnt bring them together. She doesn't bridge any divides between disparate groups. 2. Her complete lack of intelligence when dealing with Rabional, imo she gullible to the point was hard to believe. And when creating "anti-light". The Sibling dislikes Navani for how she captures spren, well now she gave the enemy a way to kill spren. Which the Sibling (assumingly knows) which one would imagine would make the Sibling dislike Navani more. Also at no point does she consider the implications of what she is doing, all she thinks about is how she is finally "free" to do scholarship, that shows not only a complete lack of responsibility but also a lack of any forethought, which given the powers (or potential powers) of a bondsmith shows an unsuitability and thus an unworthiness to have those powers imo

Don't recall "speaking" to you before. But assuming that was near the end of a thread where i was tired of repeating myself. And at some point you just need to agree to disagree with people. With regard to Gavilar, my original point to the OP was Navani didnt discover "anti-light" when Gavilar had it 8 years earlier. We don't know how he had it, but he still had it. And fact is a rediscovery is not the same as a discovery and that was all i was saying. People point to Navani bringing scholars together as her unifying people, when being a patron to anything is a far cry from actually bringing people together, she wasnt bridging a divide, or anything like that.

That statement is completly wrong,. Bridge 4 was who the other bridge crews looked down on, they were not " working toward being the best bridge crew" they were utterly dejected and despondent

I am relatively new to the shard but usually disagree with @Frustration as well, but regards Navani strangely we seem to agree. I will say i think people are over-estimating what Navani has done, i don't see her as a scholar, i don't see her as someone who brings people together either. Her highest achievment is rediscovering something her husband had 8 years prior and she did so while colluding with the enemy. Yes, she found a way to create "anti-light" she also gave all that information to the enemy. I just don't think the sum of her achievemnets equates to being worthy of bonding a bondsmith spren, or any spren for that matter.. Also with regards your point on Dalinar, i do not think he was worthy of bonding the stormfather either.

Like Frustration above i do not think Navani ever became worthy. Not to be pedantic, but she didn't discover anti light, she "rediscovered" something she already knew existed. Again, she didnt become a scholar, she is/was just a financial backer to the people who did create the above. While a finacial backer on any project, be it scientific, construction or whatever may over time develop on interest in same to the point they are able to converse with scientists/architects/project managers etc and even offer keen insights thats could perhaps be overlooked, at no point do they become a scientist/architect/project manager etc

Well definetly won't surprise me when Gavilar shows up, still think the Kholin=radiant is overdone in stormlight, even more so then starwars. Her interations with Rabional were colluding with the enemy. Also you seem to be over estimating what Navani has done, in saying she brought people together throughout OB and RoW. Your basis for Navani becoming a bondsmith seems to be her knowledge of fabrials, when even in Urithiru there is many more knowledgeable people in that department. The sibling only bonded Navani because it was that or die, so no matter what way you spin it, Navani wasn't actually worthy of that bond. Again i don't see why the bondsmith for the sibling would need to be an artifabrian, as they would of gained that knowledge after bonding the sibling in any case.

You are taking it to extremes. 1. A 5th ideal windrunner can protect themselves while protecting others, its more about know when to withdraw and not keep going to the point you compromise yourself in the process 2. Same as above really, The point is to know your limits and to protect yourself to enable you to protect others better

Think we may of discussed this before ? But i don't see how that is even remotely selfish, 1. Doesn't just apply in a combat sense, can apply to the radiants mental state. As we see with Kaladin, hes ability to protect people is severly compromised by his mental state, when/if he learns to protect himself he will be more effective protecting others. And protecting himself begun with the 4th ideal, so seems a natural progression. Windrunners are driven to protect at there own expense, and especially Kaladin, makes perfect sense for the 5th ideal to be about protecting themselves, . 2. In a comabt sense, the longer he is around the more people he can protect in the long run, and he isn't a stoneward (prone to last stands)

My bad, i misremembered that part. Yes i think that makes sense, Cultivation has her hand in many pots so to speak so i think this is highly likely

I have said this in a previous thread, But i believe the 5th ideal of the windrunners will be - "i will protect myself above/before others"

Yes, sometimes you would wonder why the Stormlight Archive isn't called the Kholin Chronicles, esp as don't forget even Elhokar was on the path to radiance. Only 2 Kholins aren't radiant and Adolin is on to "something new" which will most likely equate to being radiant, and Gavinor is still a child but who knows maybe already radiant, with how easy Kholins become one. I can see Navani being a bondsmith as becoming an issue like you say as well. Although given hasn't to this point (very few radiants seem to be from anywhere but alethkar) wouldn't surprise me if it didn't become an issue dowm the line either.

Pretty sure you are right. Both times Dalinar references a "warmth" that the stormfather isn't aware of as well,. Whether this is Cultivations influences or Dalinar accessing a an additional sliver of Honour or something else im not to sure

Il be honest an say none of the above makes her worthy in my opinion. Again i am undoubtedly in the minority in this view but Navani wasnt worthy. The Sibling actually wanted to bond Rlain, so she didnt want to bond someone she could directly control, she wanted to bond someone she felt she could trust and who was worthy, In my opinion bonding Rlain would of made the most narrative sense as well. As would of been the perfect way to bring the listeners who escaped into the fold. As well as offering a counter point to the Kholin/atleti controlled radiants, instead having Navani bond the Sibling incresses this.

It isn't just Cultivation Todium needs to worry about though, its all the other Shards as well, he would be open to an attack from any of them. Also we don't know how long he would be vulnerable, could be just when he breaks the deal or for forever more. So i don't seen this as at all likely or Todium even considering it.

I agree with Frustration, i don't think Navani becoming a bondsmith was foreshadowed in the books Altho was a widely held theory on here beforehand. I am in the minority with the view that to be quiet frank, Navani wasn't worthy to become a bondsmith or in actual fact even a radiant at all. Narratively going forward wouldnof been alot more interesting with Rlain or Dabbid bonding the sibling as well, instead get another Kholin, one who spent the entire book colluding with the "enemy"

I have the same theory-ish, posted it in other threads, But mine slightly varies as inni don't think the nightwatcher is a red herring, i just think the original bondsmith spren was BAM, who was unmade and that the nightwatcher is a relatively new bondsmith spren

I see where your coming from, pretty similiar to Renarin really. Altho Dabbid/Rlain should of been the one to bond the sibling, narratively would of been better i think,

I actually think BAM was an original bondsmith spren, who was unmade by Odium, and that the nightwatcher came after, maybe not long before the last/false desolation. Which would explain how BAM was able to give the parsh forms or power, and why the nightwatcher is "young" and inexperienced with humans

Ya your right, had forgot those, as being honest don't overly like Renarin so don't pay to much attention to him.

I already explained all of the above in previous posts, you don't see it how i do, which is fine, but i also don't see it how you do, You clearly think all that was taken was memories of Evi, and that is what changed him. I think far more was. All that changed with the memories of Evi were his need to drink, and responsibilities for her death. If the man we seen before rathalas and after the nightwatcher seens the same to you then fair enough. To be hes an entirely different person. Still has only got one thing he has "foreseen" right.

The only thing he got right was the everstorm Got Dalinar turning wrong, Jasnah killing him wrong etc, if i recall correctly he only got the everstorm right. I would say he had a choice with a very low possibility or probability that he wouldnt turn out how he did. Given that Everything making him who he was (the person who would become Odiums champion was removed, @Bejardin1250 Not what i am saying at all, What i am saying is what i said above. People seem to argue very little was taken from Dalinar when everything making him who he was, was taken. Every negative characteristic, every bass impulse etc etc what was left was only the good qualities, only the person Evi seen he could be was left.

You could be right, but i assumed the stormfather was like that because of what happened to tanavast,

Did you see where it said almost ? Also please note: nearly every foreseen event Renarin has seen has been wrong, so don't see how can use that as evidence