Quick Ben

I'm not sure how you can say this. If you thought this book was just as good as the other 4 books, good for you, that's your opinion. But everyone comes to there own conclusions, their own opinions on the story being told, and when people don't like the story then that's their opinion and they are entitled to it. So to say their reasons for disliking the book are easily dismissed is a bit much. Would you like if someone said your reasons for something were easily dismissed ? A countdown has nothing to do with pacing. This book is 1300 or so pages long, and could of been condensed into a 350 - 500 page book. Not only is pacing an issue but also filler and fluff. I don't think anyone expected the ending to be happy with roses and flowers. But the ending was lacking, in many areas in my opinion. From the new "unoathed" to Gavinor being 20 years older, Dalinar reasoning for giving up Honour, Kaladin sacrificing himself for the oathpact thats no longer required. I did find the LGBT scenes etc to be shoehorned in, and i would say the same with the trans element. Being perfectly honest, i found as the series progressed from book 1 to 5, that there was an element of forced inclusion That they were just there for the appeasement of a minority of readers, while not making any contribution to the actual story. In the above paragraph we question why a trans person is treated the same as someone with a mental illness. The majority of the characters have a mental disorder rather than an illness which is why they are treated the same. I'm not sure how you can say this. If you thought this book was just as good as the other 4 books, good for you, that's your opinion. But everyone comes to there own conclusions, their own opinions on the story being told, and when people don't like the story then that's their opinion and they are entitled to it. So to say their reasons for disliking the book are easily dismissed is a bit much. Would you like if someone said your reasons for something were easily dismissed ? A countdown has nothing to do with pacing. This book is 1300 or so pages long, and could of been condensed into a 350 - 500 page book. Not only is pacing an issue but also filler and fluff. I don't think anyone expected the ending to be happy with roses and flowers. But the ending was lacking, in many areas in my opinion. From the new "unoathed" to Gavinor being 20 years older, Dalinar reasoning for giving up Honour, Kaladin sacrificing himself for the oathpact thats no longer required. I did find the LGBT scenes etc to be shoehorned in, and i would say the same with the trans element. Being perfectly honest, i found as the series progressed from book 1 to 5, that there was an element of forced inclusion That they were just there for the appeasement of a minority of readers, while not making any contribution to the actual story. In the above paragraph we question why a trans person is treated the same as someone with a mental illness. The majority of the characters have a mental disorder rather than an illness which is why they are treated the same.

Hi All, I just reactivated my account after a number of years having just finished Wind and Truth. I am not sure if anyone else feels the same but this book felt out of sync with the rest of the series for me, i cant put my finger on why specifically but feels like a departure from what came before. Little background on my thoughts on he series prior to this book. The way of kings - 10/10 | Words Of Radiance - 10/10 | Oathbringer - 6/10 | Rhythm of War -6/10 | Wind and Truth - 5/10 Oathbringer - Lower score because imo the book was mainly filler and fluff and could of been condensed into 350-500 pages Rhythm of War - Same critique as above as well as the "nodes" feeling like a 90's video game. Also Navani bonding the Sibling never felt right to be. Wind and Truth. 10 days to the battle of champions, that's the premise at the outset of book 10 days is a short time. 10 days is a long time. But what actually happened in these 10 days ? - Not a lot. Again like the previous 2 books, this book was mainly filler and fluff, it is long for the sake of being long. Summary of feelings on Wind and Truth Oathbringer. Seems to be retconned entirely Rhythm of War. Joining of Odium and Honour kinda makes the 800 pages of finding the "Anti-light" pointless imo Dalinar. A despot who decided he changed / grew then realizes he didn't, then changes at the end ? Who claimed him at the end ? Going forward there will be two Cognitive Shadows of Dalinar ? The intent of shards can't change but his plan as i understand it, is he wants the shard of Honour to change its definition of what Honour means? Is this possible ? Seems like the Adolin segment where he describes how a promise is not an Oath is foreshadowing this change of definition in Honour. Even though a promise and Oath are the same thing. Retribution Doesn't appear to of bonded the shard of Honour fully, as multiple times it is said he had to abide by Oaths still to placate the shard. Retribution would not care about Oaths and is also not based on hatred. So seems while Taravangian holds two shards and claims the name Retribution, the shards are completely independent of eachother. Kaladin - I find the Therapist arc just to be meh. Seems destined to take up the shard of Honour when the power leaves Taravangian. What's the point of the new Oathpact ? Yes it saved the spren, but the fused are not on Braize anymore, what are the Heralds holding back ? And for that matter how do they return when they can't break, since their minds are removed from the "torture". How is the "torture happening when no one there to torture them ? Did i miss something ? Szeth - Backstory was more interesting / involved then i presumed before Wind and Truth. Didn't think it was possible to skip an ideal but i was okay with it. Jasnah This is bound to be unpopular, but i don't see a point to her at all, Wasted character. Shallan. So the Chana theory is correct which i was fine with. Chana being at the weeding seemed off though. Renarin Again, this is going to be unpopular but i think Renarin is another useless character. Rlain I think he is wasted since being paired with Renarin Venli Suddenly hears Rhythms no one hears ? Ok.... Sizgil Saves his Spren from death - and She doesn't want to talk to him ? Was a massive sacrifice and would of thought she would of seen it that way and been grateful. Adolin Suddenly his armour spren, are bonded to him ? Giant leap. Leader of new super group on Roshar. This seems like a "giving into fans" who thought Adolin should be Radiant, by meeting them halfway instead of leaving him as just a man in plate. New Gods / Old gods Wind/Stone/Night - seemed come from no where Unoathed Again from Nowhere Hoid/Wit Again going to be unpopular but i think the Stormlight Archive would of been better if it was Witless..... Cosmere interconnections I have read Elantris / Warbreaker / Mistborns etc but each of those could be enjoyed standalone from the Cosmere. SA has reached a point i don't think it can which imo has a detrimental affect on the series

No he doesn't, he writes high fantasy. Many authors nowadays don't follow the troupes and restrictions, so this really isn't a valid argument. @Honorless There isn't a feeling of dread because BS can't write it,

What despot was turned into a great ruler ? Surely you aren't referring to Dalinar ?

Just arrived today

Just seen this on reddit https://amp.reddit.com/r/Malazan/comments/o77yzg/the_jhistal_cancelled_by_publisher/ Anyone any the wiser ?

Why Is it Justice ? I'm not sure if this is a genuine question being honest. Reason is simple, his grandparents were wrongly imprisoned and left to die because of the pettiness of a lighteyes and an inept fool who allowed it to happen. Is it not justice that the people responsible for that are punished ? And how should taking a life in that manner be punished ? By taking the lives of the ones responsible. First off he didn't destabilise anything because Dalinar had made him a puppet by then, secondly fact he was king is almost irrelevant because the key fact is he was the one responsible not that he was king. So you you imagine, if Moash had approached Elhokar and Dalinar, explained what happened and they said "sorry' then that makes it ok ? Dalinar even thought so little of it all he remarked of it was "the roshone" affair, and you honestly think that an apology is enough when your family gets murdered ? Seriously?, For justice. Put yourself in Moashs shoes, your only family is murdered, you can get them Justice by eliminating the ones responsible, or you can see if they say sorry, what would you do ? I'm guessing you'd except the apology of the man responsible for killing your family since that's what your arguing, correct ?

He wanted justice for his grandparents, by eliminating the one ultimately responsible he got them justice. The point wasnt to make him feel better, point was to get justice for his family. Revenge killing isn't justice ? For someone in Moashs position killing him is the only justice he can get. If you have justification for killing someone like Moash had, then it is the right thing to do,

He was seeking justice for his family who as a result of the oppression of dark eyes were to all intents and purposes murdered through neglect. So yes he was resisting the yoke of oppression by getting the justice he could never otherwise of had. So you think Moash would of got justice for his grandparents by what ? Talking to Dalinar ? or Elhokar ? If that's what you believe how would got justice, what shape would it of taken ? An apology/excuse ? By saying "he was already one of the most powerful men in the kingdom is 1 misleading because he wasnt and 2 was the means by which he was able to get justice for his grandparents. Yes he wanted revenge, he wanted retribution for what was done to the only family he had. In a system where he would never get justice unless he took matters into his own hands, he did just that. How many tv shows, films, books are based on this very concept where the character is lifted up as a hero ? Too many to even count, yet Moash gets vilified, - makes no sense. The arguments why his vilified ? Elhokar was trying to be better - irrelevant Moash could of talked about it - are u serious ? Just because his position changed doesn't mean what was done changes, or how he feels or what he feels he has to do, to talk about it at this stage and accept whatever excuse/apology he recieved would be tantamount to being a coward. Moash hated Elhokar and just wanted revenge - yes he rightly hated Elhokar and he gets revenge as a by product of getting justice for his grandparents. Revenge and justice are not mutually exclusive.

I agree they are two different arguments, going on but don't think the regicide one is relevant for the reason you give above. However, I don't see how people say he wasn't justified, in my opinion, this is the very type of scenario which sparks revolutions, creates heros and martyrs, to say he was unjustified is to say, you have no right to defend yourself, you have no right to resist oppression, you have no right to, in a system designed to keep you and yours powerless, resist that very system. And when the ones in power turn there eye to your family, and eliminate them, you have no right to seek your own justice, when the laws, created by those same people, won't give you any. PS: this isn't a heated post, incase someone trys say it is. PPS: in all samdersons books there is social inequalities, which to an extent mirrors or own, both now and throughout history, so to say shouldn't be talked about in parallel baffles me if I'm honest as I believe that is the very intent.

What difference does it make that Elhokar was "trying" to do better ? You keep saying this, but what difference do you think it makes ? Because fact is it makes no difference. It is actually irrelevant that Elhokar is trying to do better..

@Frustration No, different views on morality then mine are not naive. But several comments were made that were naive. *Extended gaps between each statement for clarity The above statements, are naive imo, if you dispute that then fair enough, I was giving my opinion, you are free to give yours.....

I assume this was a joke and not serious ?

You are coming across as very naive and imo, and your views on the subject are very black/white and simplistic.

I wouldn't agree its realistic, simply because it's the majority and not the minority. If was a minority who wilfully assimilated into lighteyed culture disregarding the historical treatment if their caste it would be realistic, having them all do it bar 1 (Moash) is unrealistic in my opinion.

Why would he talk about it with Elhokar? There is no reason to, Moash wanted retribution for what happened his grandparents, and he took it, was no reason to talk. He was 100% right to do what he did. Talking about it would not of helped anything. Don't see how you can say was dealt with quiet heavily. Of course it's natural for darkeyed radiants to be accepted by lighteyes, why wouldn't they be ? however it's not natural for darkeyed radiants to ignore past wrongs done to them and continue to follow the lighteyes. While or course there would be some who would, it is irrational for all to follow this line and just assimilate into lighteyed culture, that is also a pretty troubling outcome when you think of it.

Its past 1am here, so I may not articulate my views on this very well, but i shall try. I'm sure you noticed the "darkeyes" are what you would call oppressed by the "lighteyes", they pretty much can live and die at there whim, darkeyes can rise so far but still can be shut down by a light eyes easily. This is reminiscent of many cultures in our own world both current and historically, so when as a darkeyes raised in this environment of systemic inequality, it is no surprise that Moash feels how he does toward Elhokar or Roshone or any and all light eyes, I'm sure you will agree with this. However saying Elhokar was mislead and trying to do better is irrelevant quiet frankly, to someone in Moashs shoes hes been beat down, abused, hes whole life, then sees his grandparents who managed to forge a niche for themselves and do well get torn down by a greedy lighteyes and a king who allowed it to happen, to someone in Moashs shoes the king and "nobles" are ultimately responsible for the systemic oppression and retribution is 100% warranted. Moash was 100% right to kill Elhokar. It is a natural thing for him to want to do and when he was able to he took the chance. With regards betraying Kaladin, it was actually Kaladin who betrayed him, to Moash Kaladin was a kindred spirit, someone who experienced similar treatment at the hands of lighteyes who got to a position where he could strike back, had decided to, then backed out. Given this Moash attacking Kaladin at end of WoR again makes sense. Then he had to go on the run, which started his decent, to where he is now, it's a logical natural path he took and fairly realistic, to be honest. Should he be vilified? No, in a way he did what many "heroes" and "martyrs" have done throughout history. What is more bothersome in my opinion is how all the darkeyes who become lighteyes actually behave and act, wilfully disregarding the treatment there caste received in their own time and throughout the past, by just "becoming" lighteyes, So while Moashs motives, actions are realistic, and logical, it is actually Kaladins, tefts, etc that isn't, and by all accounts the darkeyes have more in common with the parshendi then they do with the lighteyes. The issue of how darkeyes are historically treated is brushed over completely in the books, and barely mentioned and darkeyed radiants are just assimilated into lighteyed society with no thought to it and with little to no conflict which is unrealistic and the one darkeyes who acts truest to how would be in real world gets vilified, for acting the most realistic,

Personally I think Moash as a character and his arc is easily understandable, i fail to see why anyone hates him, and any one who hates Moash and even Amaram as well actually and loves Dalinar is plain and simply a hypocrite (sorry but its true) Also this notion of just because you attempt to atone for past deeds absolves you from said deeds is nonsense. In reality if your a mass murderer, of innocents no matter what you do, you are irredeemable. So if in SA somehow who does this is irredeemable both in book and to majority of readers, then everyone else by same token is redeemable. Also Moash character arc is far more realistic then Kaladins own in my opinion.

That only really applies to windrunner, maybe edgedancers as well, most the other orders would have no issue killing to protect or killing in general actually

I assume Rayse didn't consider it / wasn't working through Gavilar because Ulim was privy to and helped instigate his ,assassination which you would imagine Ulim the only spren of Rayse in physical world wouldn't do if they were and you would assume Ulim would know. I'd imagine Gaviliar knew because was working with axinewieth (wrong spelling) who is terris and who I'd guess is working for "Trell", Trell maybe working with Rayse or to undermine Rayse in this case - no idea I could be completely wrong and I accept that possibility. To say he is the central figure is a stretch, imo, the prologue is great at raising questions, how ? Why? What ?Who ? Where ? When ? But they have multiple focuses Gaviliar is only one aspect of those questions raised, not the entirety of there focus.

Personally I think there won't be a dual of champions, I thing Todium will look for a way to get Dalinar to renege on the agreement before the contest occurs. (I don't have any good ideas how he will achieve this) If we knew 100% that there was going to be a dual, knowing that Todium said the way he saw to beat Dalinar was subtle, then I'd throw my hat on Renarin. (Who I don't see Dalinar killing,) and for all those who quote the suckling child death rattle for evidence for Gavinor i also think could substitute Renarin into that. (Altho i don't think that death rattle applies to the contest of champions ) @AquaRegia if the champion was going to be Gavilar why would Rayse never of considered it ? And why would Gaviliar agree to being Todiums champion ? Also why I seen compelling evidence Gavilar may not be dead or maybe a CS, him showing up 5 books and 10 years(a guess later, out the blue, wouldn't be great writing. Also has anyone ever out right asked BS was Gaviliar really dead or if he was a CS etc ?

I have said this before in other threads, while I think the above scenario is unlikely I agree that Todium would want to find a way to make Dalinar renege on the agreement as this is the only way Todium actually gets free. As going by terms of the agreement whether Dalinar wins or Todium wins Todium is still bound to Roshar. Now if Todiums champion wins he is alot more "free" then his current state, but it is far from "free". So his end goal has to be to get fully free, which would imply the subtle way he saw amounted to achieving this. Also from a narrative sense, the back 5 books will be much more interesting if Todium got free so I hope this happens, I see ways Todiums champion winning can still provide an interesting back 5, but would be limited in how much can happen but if Dalinar wins I just see the back 5 being boring (like OB and RoW). I don't agree with the child champion theory, and not sure how it has so much traction on here being honest, also that wouldn't constitute being subtle. Also believe Dalinar would kill a child champion if it ever was the case.

I have it on pre order so will hopefully get it day of release. Going to very interesting going back to post crippled god malazan for sure, although I have enjoyed ICEs path to ascendancy prequel books being honest. From what I have read Karsa isn't even in the first book and given how it's his trilogy is an interesting take on things, going by the book synopsis i think book has high potential.

Being released here the 1st of July. I am in Ireland

I don't see Wax beating any awakener he may come up against "as a sword of harmony" unlikely to come up against the weaker ones. Also saying all an awakener has is "a piece of cloth" is a bit simplistic. I'd imagine since we last seen elantrians in elantris there grasp of AonDor has increased. I dont think a full mist born beats radiants, like I concede stormlight runs out but so do metals