|TJ|

Sorry I wasn't on at the rollover. It's like at 02:30am for me, so depends on the day if I can stay awake till rollover. I don't think it would have mattered as I don't think I would have changed my vote, but there's always a feeling that you could have done something. I think Illwei and Condensation are both village. If there's a village Elantrian, Illwei would probably be a good target as elims now have a reason to believe there's a decent chance that Illwei is in fact a Hemalurgist. So by asking this, I hope to create a doubt in elims mind that Illwei might be protected. (or Illwei is an elim and I'm making a fool out of myself. Hopefully not.)

Just realized that Elkanah did not vote in self-preservation. Huh. I think he wasn't around at the time the voting on Ventyl began, but still elims would have stronger self-preservation instincts because they are lesser in number and have much more a sense of responsibility towards their teammates than villagers? Does that make sense? Or do villagers and elims have equal self preservation instincts? Really confused about suspicion on Illwei (on the assumption that Elkanah is elim) since Illwei was the 3rd person to vote on Elkanah, and kept it till 3 hrs before EoD. Very very similar to Elandera's post. I suspect two elims making the same points, but setting up lynch between two different villagers. Reading and Elandera defended Turtle on D1, and Elandera defended Mist as well. I'm genuinely confused about the whole Mist/Condensation/Turtle thing. I was wondering about the "why kill Gears" discussion and found something interesting while going back through the thread: So, possibly, someone took @Illwei's advice and used formal speech... ... and the elim Hemalurgist/s mistook their speech for Gears' since he uses formal speech as well, and killed him because they thought he was a Hemalurgist? I personally think this is more likely than elims finding something in what Gears told (I went back and checked, I couldn't find anything that could be perceived as threat to elims) or killing Gears to provide no information because a] there were other candidates to give even lesser information on their death; b] pretty sure they'd be some elims who would discourage a kill on Gears as he gets killed early a lot in recent games; and c] Elims' first priority would be to find village Hemalurgists and not just killing someone so they do not provide any info. Analysing kills is a very useful tool. I've used myself to pool in a bunch of suspects and begin PoE. But stating Gears was probably killed not to give information, but still proceeds to extract information from his posts is suspicious indeed. Plus the assumption (that Gears was killed not to provide much info) strays away from my guess (in the above para), which could be a distraction from the truth. Reads: Village: Illwei, Ashbringer, Whysper, Elkanah Elim: Elandera, Reading, Turtle?, Mist? Sort of vary about Aman and Araris team, as they seem to have the same thoughts both D1 and D2, but my suspicion for Elandera overcomes my caution towards one or both of Aman and Araris misguiding us. EDIT: @Straw, the vote on Elandera was just bolded the first time. Tagging to let you know.

There are pinch-hitters this time. They won't die, they'll be replaced. Also, HI doesn't count towards win-con so we don't have to assume 7 as worst-case no. of elims. Don't have access to laptop right now, thoughts post to come later

Similar way, I suppose. If they're doing elim-y stuff and their posts indicate they are Hemalurgists, they're both? I'm not really sure. For that matter, I'm not sure how you would deduce someone is Hemalurgist from their post, but of course, don't reveal that.

Depends. Do you suspect them only to be an elim or do you suspect them to be elim Hemalurgist? If it's the latter, then go for it. If you think it's between normal elim and village Hemalurgist, well I don't really know. Wait for more evidence probably.

Devotary wasn't elim. I Squired her xD Striker, Araris, Xino, Zillah, Mint, Mage, Silber. Five I think. Bondsmith, Edgedancer, Truthwatcher, Skybreaker and Windrunner. But we could Squire so that's basically 10 non-vanilla roles. . Not able to post below the quote so here we go: This also has a slight disadvantage. I'm not sure which tactic Hemalurgists might go for, but I'd imagine at least some of them trying not to be too visible or not giving too much analysis as they may get too much attention and might get analysis-killed. I wouldn't approve of it, but I do think some might employ this method, so I'm not sure if Contribution Crusade is the way to go.

3 or 4? Y'all are seriously underestimating Straw's distribution The previous long game he hosted (LG67) had a seven-member elim team out of a total of 23 players. Of course, that depends on distribution of roles, but still 4 is too less imo. To be on the safer side, I'll assume 6+HI, although 5+HI is more likely.

In all fairness, there's no evidence of either village or traitor alignment from Elk. I'd like to see the spreadsheet of his before voting. @Elkanah, you can just copy from the spreadsheet and paste it here.

Whom would you have voted for, if you could have?

Really not getting the suspicion on Elkanah at all. I've not been interested in Elkanah lynch throughout the cycle. Since no one supported the suspicion on Mist, Ventyl was the next most suspicious. The evidence put forth so far seemed a little forced for me to support it and it looked more likely to be a mislynch. I do believe there's definitely an elim vote on Elkanah. That's a another thing difficult to discern since only 9 of the 23 players voted, it's difficult to gauge the distribution of elim votes, as the majority of them might have decided to just not vote if villagers put village candidates up for elimination, so we might have to look for players who were active but didn't vote. Can someone explain why some people thought of Turtle-Elkanah team? I was suspicious of Turtle, but could never make the Turtle-Elk connection.

I'm not liking this defence of Turtle by so many people (or "Turtle and Elk are equally suspicious" but everyome preferring to vote out Elk ahead of Turtle ) Rethinking because someone said they're different and must be flip-flopping because they can't take teammates help, which makes sense, so I'll drop it. But I don't feel good about Turtle at all. Don't agree with Aman and Elandera about Mist's role breakdown. Agreed that role breakdown is NAI but there's a difference between being helpful even while posting rule breakdown (like say how xineohp does it) to the post made by Mist which doesn't say anything. Would be ready to vote for Mist but Illwei makes a strong case against Ventyl: He begins with repeating the same thing Araris said (Turtle and Elkanah are equally suspect) and then deduces that his playstyle is similar to the time when he was Monk, and then compares the Monk role to the HI role, assumes Elk is HI and just runs with it in the next para. This whole thing is just weird. Ventyl. eltruT.

This does not give any conclusive evidence, but I'll just tell the reasoning for my suspicion anyway. Exhibit - A: Votes on Mist because she agrees with my reasoning: "Muster"ing up a reason doesn't sound good at all. Exhibit - B: Does not prefer Elkanah over Mist: Ok, just looked at it. This makes sense, but not enough to make me switch my vote. Im sorry I took so long to respond. Exhibit - C: Directly contradicts Exhibit - A (on the reasoning for voting on Mist) : Previously, it wasn't enough to change to Elkanah, but now they're probably willing to join. These reasons are enough to put Turtle ahead of Mist in my suspicion order. eltruT. Mist. EDIT: Missed to quote the contradiction for Exhibit - C

What are your thoughts on Mist, and what do you think about my reasoning to vote for her i.e.: Very very obvious stuff posted here. Suspicious. . A bit concerned by this statement because there were only 3 votes at the time (which are not there anymore) and around 24+hrs left to the end of cycle, so I'm not sure why you would be worried. It felt like you were scaring off potential voters. Teammates of Turtle in the previous game, has she done this in the previous game? Asked you guys if she should or shouldn't do stuff? Have reasons for suspicion on Turtle, but will state them after getting an answer to this.

I had missed that point that elims cannot kill HI. But as you guys mentioned they could still try to manipulate/hammer a vote on HI during the day turn and not worry about consequences as they can kill a villager in the same night turn. @Whysper, good catch on Elkanah's post. Have you gone through the LG15 thread? Can you tell if Elkanah's playstyle is chaotic in that game? As playstyles can change over time and LG15 was like 5 years ago, I want to know if he was playing cautiously, in which case it would mean he has changed his gameplay, or was he still chaotic, which would mean he's contradicting himself and could be an elim.

All three of you think that we should try to find out the HI by voting them out, but I'm kinda confused because: It's a wasted cycle because we have no elimination. Even if we do find out the HI, I don't see the advantages. You're telling that knowing HI would help us avoid killing it (not sure if you guys are also telling we should proactively protect the HI as well). But that doesn't matter because we do not know when all the village Hemalurgists are dead, as we do not know the total no of Hemalurgists. The only ones who would know are the elim!Hemalurgists in the Hemalurgist doc. We do not have to worry about avoiding taking out the HI because elims will know before us and they'll kill HI the very next turn before we know if all the village!Hemalurgists are eliminated. Also forgot to do this in the last post - Mist. Reasoning in my first post i.e. stating the most obvious to appear helpful.

Continuing from page 2: Once again, we cannot vote out the HI. Even if we could, we shouldn't. Could be a genuinely villager who didn't know the rules, or could be an elim letting it slip trying to vote out HI (again, without knowing the rules). I'm leaning towards the former. As stated above, trying to eliminate HI does NOT come off as village. xD What part of Turtle's vote on Mist was sincere. That they're sincerely trying to find HI? What are your thoughts on what I've said about Turtle targeting Mist under the hunch of HI!Mist given that it's a contributory to elim! win con? If that's too paranoid for you, welcome to SE. xD Heh, you should meet Kas. I've got village read on Illwei, and Danex, from the couple of posts they made. Not sure if Mist is being deliberately suspicious as HI!Mist could do that to waste a whole voting cycle. Gut elim on Devotary, which is weird because I always gut read her as village. Confused about Turtle and null about everyone else. Depending on Mist's alignment, Vapor could also be elim (re: previous post in which I stated e/e feel on their interaction).

Glad to be of help! I really thought it was common knowledge though. Before I discovered it, I was (Ctrl+F)ing too xD Em, Elk.. we cannot lynch HI, atleast not until all V!Hemalurgists are dead. But that's beside the point, why would we want to lynch HI? If the HI dies, we're effectively at LyLo.

You're welcome! Fun fact! This is the first time I'm playing more than a single game under the same GM. My previous 10 games were by 10 different GMs! Alright, game stuff. Gut e/e interaction here. Supported by: Very very obvious stuff posted here. Suspicious. Somewhat my thoughts. doesn't feel like "skating by" is the right term, IMO though. Agreed, I felt the same. Skating by felt like an odd phrase to mention. Not sure why this should be AI... That's the stuff from page 1. I'll be busy for a few hours, so I'll continue where I left off. Later!

Hello guys! I was catching up with the thread when I saw yous ask how to ISO. You can go to the person's profile and choose "See their activity" at the right (opposite to the profile pic). That should show you all the posts from the profile in reverse chronological order, so if the person has only been posting in SE, you can get all their posts from there.

Ahh, well too many people joining iny, sign me up too. Edit: Forgot I had a question. Is the Hemalurgist doc accessible by elim Hemalurgists and HI as well?

Hey, so I sort of stopped following what was happening after I died as I was busy, sorry about that xD But congrats to the elims! Well played! I did check rollovers to see who died so I did manage to see Elkanah survive THREE times! Well done Elk! And of course, thanks for the GMs @Kynedath and @Zillah for running the game.

Sorry for being absent guys. I went through the threads since the last time I posted (back in D1) and I'm quoting the posts which I felt suspicious. @Illwei: Gears posts a lots of summary-analysis posts and has posted in the past, not sure why you would read it as elim. Bunch of elim gut reads and bad vibes. Whenever the read lists are very vague, I feel something is off because it feels like making a post to act helpful. But some leniency in suspicion because it was quite early in the game. @Mist: Why mild suspicion on claim? He's done it previously as villager and told he'd do it every game before hand. I'd expect everyone else to read it as NAI. Again, with summarizing. He's been doing it in all his previous games, all which he's been village. Suspicion on me because I apparently told not to share suspicion, whereas I clearly said be cautious in sharing suspicion during the night cycles, and if you must, do so at the very end of the cycle. @Ashbringer: Feels a bit like hedging, but Ashbringer's post since then are not suspicious. Out of the 8 votes, Xino, Venture, Vapor, Mist, and King's Way (please tell me if I'm wrong, I might have added an extra name) voted because of Gears's elim claim, which is a very easy reason you could get away with. After reading Illwei's posts this cycle, and before reaching Matrim's post, my thought process was exactly the same. This post perfectly tells everything I wanted to tell. Now since then Illwei has explained the reason of votes in previous cycles my suspicion has decreased a bit, but why explain now after bring suspected? They had the opportunity multiple times when different players expressed confusion over their vote. I'm confused over them, in my mind they've been too suspicious to be an elim. Either a villager trying to trap some elims (like Venture perhaps) or Spy. I also agree with them about Venture being suspicious which decreases my suspicion on Illwei. My 2 cents on the Devotary death: I feel Devotary is a very careful player, and I really do not think she would have swapped with Lotus as she knew Lotus could possibly be the target of the elim kill. Elim pool: Venture (Vote + Venture's post this cycle), Xinoehp (Vote), Mist(Vote + suspicion in this post), King's Way (vote + post mentioned in D1) and Lotus. Out of these, I feel strongly about Mist A bit about Lotus as well. @Illwei, why do you think claim to be role swapped in not elim indicative? It makes perfect sense, if she's no longer an Adjudicator, we no longer have reason to lynch her, and she can give the reason that the elims no longer want to kill her as the reason for staying alive. Think that's about it. Will try to come around the rollover time and see if the votes are close.

Gahhhh I'm on a time constraint and shard ate my post. So I'll be extremely brief here. Why do you think more no. of elim!Adjudicator depends on no. of Kingpins? Also the Adjudicator replaces an elim theory feels like an attempt to misdirect the village . This is basically repeating what Matrim and Elkanah has told. It's not just saying that "I agree", but it's repeating what they said in the same verbatim. Seems to like wanting to appear helpful. Elim read. Some thoughts on other players as I went through the thread: Devotary - Thoroughly agree with the point that elim would not want to buy insignias as the chances of a lynch with 1 vote difference at this stage of the game is very unlikely and that it would be a waste of money. Other posts felt largely village as well. Elkanah - Just one weird point. The fact that he mentioned every villager should buy insignias and it would be recommended to do so. Possible reason as a cover if elim!Elkanah or his teammates are burgled and found to be in possession on an insignia or a ploy to waste the villagers money? Other than this weird point, Elk's been largely LG69-ish. Could you explain exactly what you were thinking when you suggested it, Elk? Null leaning village subject to the reply to my question. Illwei - Getting a whole lot of confident vibe from Illwei, which I'm reading it as a village thing. Lots of good points on flippy-floppy nature of Gears as well. Matrim - Nothing in particular stands out as I recall his posts in thread. Quite helpful and in general, feels like his usual village game. Gears - I've previously mentioned my disdain for elim-claiming playstyle. It's not even discouraging the chaotic playstyle, as chaotic playstyle helps the village too. But claiming elim as a villager is purely a selfish motive if it is done with the intent that people might ignore you when you do the same in a future game in which you're an elim. Looking past that, I did not like how quick you were to jump on Lotus' claim but I'm willing to overlook all that because... Lotus - I cannot, for the life in me, fathom why Lotus would claim Adjudicator is she was the villager. I'm trying to imagine myself as one, and I'm looking at the rules. It clearly states that if I get NK'd, then village needs majority vote for a lynch to be successful. Now why would you read that, then decide to claim, when you know that you'd likely be NK'd which is directly detrimental to the village's cause? I'll have you note the Lotus made a previous post earlier in the cycle which was normal. Only after the discussion about the Adjudicator arose, did she claim as one. If she decided to have a different playstyle from before, shouldn't she have claimed earlier? Lotus Rollover is early morning again for me (same as LG69/QF47) so I'll most likely not come on again. Edit: Lots of ninjas, hold on let me read it up and edit again. Edit 2: Not...exactly sure why Illwei would changer their vote from Gears to Lotus, while finding that Gears made no sense. Odd.

Re-reading the rules as I had initially just rushed through them. We need to be very careful about an elim!Adjudicator and hence be careful about mentioning suspicion beforehand. It would be recommended not to mention any suspicion that would make it obvious to an elim Adjudicator that their fellow elim might be the target of majority of the players to lynch. We'd waste an important cycle that way. If you are afraid that you'll die, mention your suspicions at the last moment of the Night cycle. Speaking of Adjudicator, I've got a question. What will happen if an Adjudicator saves a player from the lynch? Will there be no elimination that cycle, or will the player with second highest votes will be eliminated?

Signing up for this! My activity might be limited as I began a full-time job though.