|TJ|

Mat's first game as GM! I wasn't going to miss it, but I wanted to wait till today to see if my week would get busy all of a sudden. It didn't, so count me in!

Araris' post actually made me recheck the rules of them game, and I just realised the elims just have to achieve parity, and not outnumber us for them to win. So if it's 7-5-1, and they are able to get a mislynch, we lose at the end of the Night Turn. Since Supreme has not at all come on, Experience.

Right. At this point, you're just narrating this to fit your agenda and ignoring all the points that gives proof that I'm village. How is it a safe maneuver when there were 3 votes on Ash and a lot of suspicion on him prior to that? And no, at that point, Ash was already taking a lot of suspicion, it doesn't make sense for another elim to expose themselves 'trying to save' him. Again, I didn't start the bandwagon. I voted for a person who I found suspicious and posed someone questions to others I found suspicious. Not everyone plays like you, Danex. In fact, I've never seen anyone here playing with the intention of looking good when they're village. I'd rather catch an elim following my suspicion than making attempts to look good to the public. Wow, the anomalies in this post. I'm actually doubting if you've even followed the thread properly. First, a contradiction: First, you're telling I took the chance to save Ash by voting on Books, now you're telling I'm suspicious for not trying to save him?? Like, what? You're finding me suspicious for NOT doing what an elim would do? Me not using vote manipulation is an elim indicative now? No, I did not. They were the most suspicious so I voted for them till I got answers from the people I had asked. No, I did not. I was reading him as village as I did state it in the post, and others finding him suspicious made me look at things closer as well, and asked him a question as well. I did not have a chance to reply to Books' reply or to Ash's reply because I was asleep as I had already stated in yet another post. No, unless I'm fairly certain of the player I voted on is an elim, which I wasn't because I hadn't gotten the replies I wanted before I fell asleep. Hold on, let me make sure I'm getting this correctly. You're telling that I didn't use vote manipulation yet kept my vote on Ash because I wanted suspicion on me so that I could tell later that I didn't use manipulation to get out of suspicion??? Rather than just manipulating the vote, saving Ash and not at all getting suspicion on me or in the first place? Probably another post you missed: I still think the same though the recent post makes me slightly worried that they're trying to pocket me. Now I shouldn't defend myself? You are my biggest suspicion, I'm conversing with you to find out if I'm wrong or right. I genuinely wanted you voted out last cycle because I believed you to be elim. Ironically, you also have not posted any reads after I voted for you. I'm not sure how that is even an alignment indicative. Doesn't seem like it from the Aman kill. And pretty sure most us were convinced Illwei wasn't a Hemalurgist too. Yes, you had 24 hours to put in a request, so I do find it hard to believe that you would miss the deadline. Especially after coming out very strongly against me in the succeeding Day cycle. I have grown much more sure from what you’ve said this round. Believe me, if I survive, and if nothing has happened to change my mind, I will. Also I missed turnover and the last bit of last night. It's really difficult to see you as a villager because I'd imagine a villager would be at least a little open-minded. You're not even hesitating to lynch a village Feruchemist. You're having an idea of my alignment in your mind and you're narrating suspicion to fit that agenda, while ignoring everything else that says otherwise. It's really hard to see a tunneling villager over a mislynching elim. The only thing that makes me hesitate is the fact that you love to look good. But if you're an elim forcing a mislynch on me, then you'd know I'll flip village, which makes you look BAD. So I'm not really sure. I'd like to hear what the other players think of Danex. I'm getting terrible LG67 déjà vu from this game. Agree about suspicious nature about the last post from Mist. I've been leaning elim about her all game, but definitely less than TWS and Danex. Not sure why a villager would not read last cycle's posts before making a vote this cycle. @Experience, any explanations? Village on Connie, Whysper, Araris. Supreme. Talk.

I want to invite you to explain a scenario of the Ashbringer lynch with me as an elim. I actually want you to answer this question, do not ignore it by telling you've got nothing to say because you're imply that elim!me would start a wagon against Ashbringer knowing fully well there's a high probability that Ash might get lynched.. which would only bring attention and major suspicion towards me... which made to claim my role... instead of just using vote manipulation which could have saved Ashbringer, kept me out of spotlight and suspicion, and if Books was an elim, it would only make my vote look good... and you're actually calling it clever elim play? Please, I actually want you explain a scenario where elim!me makes sense. I guarantee you, you'll be solely at fault if I get lynched because I will flip village and you would've just deprived the village of a vote manipulator, and you've been the sole person (TWS too, but I'll get to them later) pushing for my lynch while frankly being unreasonable. You say one way of getting information is voting but you're literally doing the same thing as the last cycle. How does repeating things give more information? And you definitely seem more worried about the 'way you look' than killing elims, which is not a good look for a villager. The vote was moved off because I moved it. I'm the Feruchemist. Read the night cycle posts if you've missed them. It's the second time you're following Danex' vote without much reasoning other than "I agree with the above post". I'd like you to give your own reasoning, and also explain a scenario in which I'm an elim like I asked Danex earlier in the post. I wasn't sure about Araris till this cycle. But there's no way a team with Araris would have spared me last night after I told I'm the Feruchemist, having stated the power of shifting votes without the self-vote being cancelled. In case elim!Araris decided not to kill me, it would only be to push a mislynch on me this cycle and he hasn't done it. Now to talk about the lack of Mistborn kill. Danex, there's just so many things against you here, man: You knew you were getting suspicions from people and you had to prove that you were the Mistborn You weren't killed in the night despite the claim You had soooo many elim reads and you couldn't even land on one? It was the 5th night, weren't you scared you'd waste a kill if you were killed? It's the 5th night, and you still couldn't choose a target to kill? It's the second time you're giving the reason that you missed the rollover. You seem to care sooo much about how you 'look' during the game, that I find it hard to believe you wouldn't have proved that you were a Mistborn when you had the chance.

That is correct. I claimed to Connie last night. Even before that I claimed to Whysper two nights ago (I'm the AnonFeru she mentioned, remember?), because I wanted to give out the info about the existence another Feruchemist (which I knew about since we cancelled each other's vote manipulation because we targeted the same vote) whom I thought could be an elim. It wasn't useful in the end because the Feruchemist was Devotary who died in the night. Like I said above, I only attempted to manipulate vote in D1, which failed. The only time we saw vote manipulation before this cycle was Devotary saving Turtle leading to the Reading lynch. So, this is my first successful vote manipulation.

Right, I'm the Feruchemist. Wouldn't know if someone would tie the score at the end, and that's why I manipulated the vote. Again, this should show I'm village as I didn't manipulate vote when I could have saved Ashbringer. Even if Books is elim, it wouldn't make sense for me to vote for Books in an attempt to save Ash and then not save Ash via vote manipulation.

Awake because I'm watching a football match in which my team is losing and I'm getting lynched. Sweet. On my phone so won't quote. @Danex, I don't know how you can say I've made up mind, when I've been literally asking you to answer my suspicion, to give me something to change my mind. It doesn't matter now, as I told I suspect a Danex-Lotus team. And Lotus having to go back to find why they voted on a player doesn't look good at all. I have to vote in self-preservation as well. Lotus

This was before I made a single post this cycle. You said elim with conviction. Not "mild elim" or "strong elim". "Elim" like it was beyond any reasonable doubt for you. And can you please elaborate what you mean by "from what you've said this round"? I've only mentioned my suspicion towards you, which you've done nothing to allay. I'm really not able to understand your stand not to reply to any of my suspicion if you're a villager. I really don't.

Last round. I asked about your "I don't do this normally" and you replied telling you don't vote in the first round. This was my follow up question. I wasn't entirely sure about Danex, but they've said they don't have anything to prove, haven't defended themselves, have chosen not to reply to my suspicions. This part only increase my suspicions: Why didn't you kill me last night? The way you're talking, you're 100% convinced that I'm an elim, and you're not even open to considering the possibility that I'm a villager. So if you're so sure about it, why didn't you kill me last night?

Meant to reply to your earlier post which said "Earlier suspicions have not been allayed" but what were the earlier suspicions? This: and this: Basically this ^ Your "strong elim" read is based on "too many small things" and based on PMs you weren't in? And you seem to sculpt the scenario to paint Connie in the bad light by telling she might be an elim fake claiming when it's be confirmed by Illwei, and any fake info generated to appear as Hemalurgist can easily be disproved and that would be a surefire way of getting caught as an elim. This would be a very stupid idea for me to do as an elim. If I was an elim, why would I make myself look bad when Ash had like 3 votes on him? It would be very foolish of me to attempt to save him as he was almost certainly going to be lynched. My vote of Books was supposed to be temporary till all the people answered the questions I had asked, as without the answers Books was my main suspicion. Then I fell asleep and wasn't on because rollover is at 3:30am here (could be confirmed be people who were on at or close to rollover). You then go one to theorize elim!me would vote on elim!Books, which honestly doesn't make sense. Like why would I start a e/e train when I could have started it on a villager. Feels like an attempt to throw shade on both me and Books. And you just said elim!me would bus Books over Ash for activity reasons. For one, bussing Ash would have given me village cred and not at all involved a supposed elim!Books For two, Ash wasn't all that active as well. And three, wow how ruthless do you think I am? Bussing a new player in their first game because they are "less active" and "less helpful"? I guarantee you we do not treat new players like that. You're just throwing suspicions all over the place. And you're not at all suspicious of the player who actually MADE the attempt to save Ash? Like none? I may have voted first, but I didn't start a "bandwagon" nor did I compel anyone anyone to vote for Books to attempt to save Ash. Lotus was the one who made the lynch into a bandwagon. And you've got nothing on her. Danex-Lotus team up suspected. Literally the same reason I was suspicious about Books. Above all: You're actually more suspicious for voting for Connie, retracting it after the claim and not voting at all. Did not get involved with Ashbringer lynch at all. Pushing a mislynch on Connie ahead of a cycle. Elim!you would know by not killing Condensation, she'd become a mislynch candidate. You also seem pretty annoyed when I asked the Elantrian to protect Connie, as that would give us a reason to tell why Connie survived, so you couldn't push your "she survived, she must be elim" narrative. And also about the fact the suggesting RNG for deciding whom to protect? Weird. Danex Elkanah wasn't saved by the Feruchemist. The Feruchemist and Devotary's vote manipulation failed due to some sort of cancellation. So it was 4-4, and Ventyl was killed on coin-toss. If the Feruchemist is an elim, they would have saved Ash last cycle. So I doubt that. I'm reading Araris as village. Although there are a couple of things nagging me. Initially I thought there's no way an elim team with Araris would have gone for the Aman kill. But then I remembered him killing Elbereth in a very similar situation (active player gone inactive with the chances of coming back) in LG67. I seriously doubt that's the case this time, with the Hemalurgic mechanism, but just a thing that felt eerily similar to me. Another thing is the Devotary's death, which I mentioned earlier. I'm of the opinion that only Araris, out of everyone alive could have identified Devotary as the Hemalurgist but again, he doesn't fit the elim team. So, what if Devotary was actually Aman's kill? That would make Turtle as the elim kill which makes sense as they wanted a claimed Hemalurgist dead without trusting the next day's lynch (I think by the time Illwei was already advocating for us not to lynch claimed Hemalurgists?). @Lotus, I don't think you answered this question.

This is really suspicions man. Why would you want them to protect someone else other than a claimed Hemalurgist? I'm definitely doing this so elims do not attack them at all irrespective of whether the Elantrian decides to protect them or not. Why would you want leave the claimed Hemalurgist unprotected just because elims might attack someone else most probably not a Hemalurgist? You're literally telling Elantrian to protect someone who is probably not a Hemalurgist to someone who most definitely is? This..doesn't even make sense? Elantrians could end up protecting the elims? Elantrian should most definitely protect Connie because that forces elims to go for someone else, and the probability of that someone else being a Hemalurgist is lesser. I'm not sure why this is even a debate? This is the second time you're telling this. Do you have any reasons to believe Connie is not a villager?

Mine was a case of bad read on Ashbringer, but I won't defend myself further in this cycle. Suspicions will help me not get Night Killed. Don't think it was an e/e train. I went to sleep before I saw Books' reply to my suspicion, and I really don't think it was a bussing attempt. There were many other players with similar bandwagon-y votes so Ash could easily have voted on them rather than bus Books. I'm giving mild village to Books. Lotus' vote is a lot more suspicious. I think Condensation is village because she was PMing with Turtle and did not get her killed earlier, although that depends on the timeline of when Connie was PMing with Turtle. @Condensation, could you answer that? You're probably village irrespective of that, but it's good to get a little more assurance. And making this statement because elims might think we have forgotten about it and kill Connie, so village Elantrian, protect Connie. It was the MR Mat was supposed to Co-GM first. But then had to drop out due to low player attendance. The vials game, MR44 I believe.

Any reasoning why you voted on Turtle? You didn't mention it when you voted. Yes, that's stating the obvious. But how do you go about finding who the elims are? By voting out your most suspicious candidate, yeah?

Yes, initially I did as well. But that long post just struck me odd. They were telling nothing, but comes with a long post out of nowhere, and then have said nothing ever since? Doesn't feel right. This doesn't actually make you look good by the way. The goal of villagers is to ensure that the people we are suspicious so get lynched. It's the elims who skirt suspicion by voting for players outside the main lynch so when people analyze the votes of a lynched villager, they are not in the spotlight. So no, it's definitely not a thing to feel good about. Seems like this is an attempt to paint yourself in the good light. Rings all sorts of wrong bells, this post.

@Condensation, I'm thinking about the Devotary kill, and usually they're very difficult to read. Did they give any indication about their identity in the doc? If not, we might be looking at someone who has been playing with Devotary for a while and/or exceptionally good at reading players. @Araris Valerian, you're probably the only player left who has played with Aman. Aman doesn't seem like a player who would ask others their kill option. He seems like he would just go for his best choice for the kill. Has he done this before when he had the village kill role? Aman didn't seem to want to answer the questions about who wanted Turtle dead. Also, if he'd been asking questions about players' kill option, there's a big possibility that he would have contacted at least one elim. And I don't think elims would have taken the chance of a possible death of one of their own and let Aman live. @Ashbringer, I've been reading you village for quite a bit of the game, bar the parts where you seem hedgy, your village parts outweigh your elim parts. One thing stands out. Your reasoning to stick on Turtle. Why did you think Reading was also a Hemalurgist? Basically going through Turtle voters at this point @Flyingbooks42 had literally bandwagoned on the votes in the first 2 cycles of the game with one sentence votes, and then came with a long post after that. That reeks of a teammate asking them to do something other than just "agreeing" with reads. @Lotus, you said "I don't normally do this" and proceeded to vote for Turtle. What is it that you not do normally? Other voters include Experience, go made the case for Turtle. Seemed village at the time, but I'll go through his posts once more. TWS has also been bandwagon-y but their voting seems to be too out of order and suspicious to be from an elim, but definitely at least one of the bandwagon votes is from an elim. Voting for Flyingbooks42 till I get answers to these questions.

What is this? Please explain. xD You mean Turtle right? You thought she was HI...

Since Mistborn is limited to one kill per game, what are your (as in everyone) thoughts the possibility of an elim Mistborn?

Straw, we won't know whose vote shifted? I seem to remember that we could in other games I've played. It varies from GM to GM? @Amanuensis, can you answer Ashbringer's question from earlier? How many people wanted Turtle NK'd?

@eltruT, can you give us some details about what's going on in the doc? Just state the numbers, no need to name. Also give your suspicion on which of them could be elims. Elims are already privy to the doc information so you could level that field for us if you're village.

My opinion has since changed as stated in my previous post (not sure if you're all caught up). Even though Elk explained it, his vote shift at the end of last cycle is suspicious. At the same time, it's important to acknowledge that you are not right always, and other players might have better reads than you at the moment. I've tunneled and kept my opinion over others before and regretted it later many a times. A good balance is very much required. It's not just that people didn't vote for my target, it's they vehemently disagreed with it, so there was no chance a vote on Turtle was picking up. So I wouldn't term it being indecisive. Besides, why is indecisiveness an elim indicative? Villagers are more prone to be in dilemma about their choice to vote than elims in my opinion. Elims can just choose a villager to vote on and not do a thing. It's the villagers who have to react to new information and make changes. It stands for Wounded Gazelle Gambit. What Whysper said.

You can check Rae's post here. I think it has helpful hints to new players. People shot me down, telling Turtle's is just new player behavior. I cannot lynch a player by myself, can I? xD Felt like my vote was worth some place else if we weren't going to lynch Turtle. Literally contains all the same reasons I've found suspicious about Turtle. I'm still suspicious of Turtle by the way, but she already has 3 votes and I'm a bit apprehensive about adding a 4th as I'm not completely sure about the voters. @eltruT, what are your suspicions?

You were suspicious of the Surgebinder before the beginning of D2? Interesting... Like I said, it's not the post itself, but the wording that ticked me off. And no, I don't have reasons other a few places here and there where Mist doesn't quite commit to a single thing like: and But I don't know. I feel like I'm reaching and tunneling because of bad first impression. Bahh, why is everyone doing this? How am I supposed to increase my suspect pool if you guys aren't stating your suspects? Tiny bit suspicious of Elkanah's vote shift in the end. Did he feel that his vote on Elandera would be seen as bandwagon-y after her she would flip as village? Aman. Shard of Reading

That's quite valid. Do you not have a better candidate for lynch than this person? You seem quite sure that this person is elim to be considering lynching them despite the loss of PMs. You could be building up a reason right now so we might not blame you if that person does end up getting lynched. That wasn't my only reason though. I've mentioned my hunch that one or both of you and Araris might be elims, and despite me falling for it, the case you built for Elandera was a little too perfect in retrospect. Like the case was constructed, not just found. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here but that's how I feel. Also, I'm still suspicious of Mist, and your defence of her on D1 felt off. And her vote on Illwei didn't help things either because Illwei is one of my village reads (bar paranoia, that is). @The Windrunner Supreme, can you vote on someone other than your sibling? xD I maybe only half kidding though, because it's the third cycle, and you've got to have more than Experience right? This behavior is too weird to be suspicious, but it definitely doesn't help us, so you go in my suspect book. @Shard of Reading, @Mist, @Danex, @Vapor, @Ashbringer, @Wind - thoughts on your suspect list?

@Illwei this was the post I was referring to ^ WGG is when elims attack their teammates with ensured protection to make trick the village into thinking the attacked person is village. Wilson pulled it off in AG2 I think. Are you going to answer these? xD

I didn't really expect elims to actually attack Illwei after asking someone to protect. I thought they'll just go for someone else. But this has made by paranoid about a WGG. I'm not sure if elims would waste a cycle WGG-ing as Illwei was already sort of favourably read by some of us, but still it makes me glance sideways at Illwei. Like this. Where have you stated before that you have figured out who all the Hemalurgists are? I might have missed that. Also, why wouldn't the elims kill you if they knew you know the info about all Hemalurgists? Like would they hope that you'd give them the info? Why would they think that, if you're village? Of course they'd know you wouldn't tell it, so you they'd have no problem killing you. Things like this makes me paranoid about WGG. I still read you as village, but paranoid!village. Amanuensis Why would we need to know the number of Surgebinders? We'd keep talking till all of them died, that information is not pertinent. It's more useful to the elims to know how many they have to kill to cut off village communication.