LuckyJim

The scene where Moash accidentally proposed to Venli due to his unfamiliarity with singer customs was pretty funny, I wonder if anything's going to come of that or if it's just going to be a minor recurring gag.

Was it confirmed that Lift and Szeth would be part of those groupings? I thought they were only going to get an interlude.

Probably something along those lines. "I will protect even those who could have protected themselves if they just listened to me when I explained the proper.... never mind, I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right."

Radiants with the surges of Transportation or Transformation have the ability to peak into Shadesmar, so it's possible they just get the aid of Jasnah or a Lightweaver.

The best part was probably when Sigzil and the other Windrunners went to confront Taravangian after they found out about his dealings with Odium. Sigzil: In the name of the allied coalition of Roshar, you're under arrest, king Taravangian. Taravangian: Are you threatening me, Radiant Sigzil? Sigzil: The coalition will decide your fate. Taravangian: I am the coalition. Sigzil: Not yet. Taravangian: It's treason then.

They didn't mention any Willshapers, but it's possible they have a few in their number. Other than that I think so. Kaladin and all of his men represent the Windrunners, Szeth is the only Skybreaker. Malata, the Reshi King and several other Dustbringers. Lift ,Godeke and several other Edgedancers. Renarin and 2-3 other Truthwatchers. Shallan, her squires and probably some other Lightweavers, considering the Crytics were open to bonding. Jasnah is the only Elsecaller. No word on Willshapers. An unknown number of Stonewards, but at least one. Dalinar as the one of three potential Bondsmiths.

The Reishi King is a new Dustbringer, and possibly allied more closely to Dalinar than Taravangian and the other Dustbringers. Also, in Lopen's conversation is seems like the bond with the Ashspren caused his biological sex to transition to male.

Here's a question, if Gavinor seriously pursues revenge on Moash, would that be a bad thing? Revenge motivated by hatred in fantasy is usually considered morally gray at best, and usually a bad thing in the cosmere, especially since passionate hatred is within Odium's domain. Moash seems pretty clearly a force for bad at this point, but at the same time Brandon has practically bent over backwards to prevent Kaladin from ever killing someone when it might have been done out of personal motivations.

I vaguely remember reading something like that. I don't think it's impossible that Renarin could get a few more viewpoints, I'd argue that the reveal of Glys is already opening the box a bit, and we're already starting to see more of Jasnah and the Heralds. Restricting him to interludes could be a decent way to tease out more information. That being said, Renarin was my second guess, if I had to bet on one or the other, I definitely thing it would be Moash/Vyre. Reading some of Brandon's annotations in the preview chapters, it seems like he has plans for him.

So, in every book there's one character who gets at least one viewpoint in each set of interludes, first it was Szeth, then Eshonai, then Venli. I've seen people discuss what the different groupings will be, but I haven't seen people talk about who will be filling this position for Rhythm of War. Maybe there has been and I just missed it, but I'm kind of curious. We're two weeks away from RoW, we've basically seen all of part 1 and a couple interludes, who do you think will be the main interlude viewpoint character? I think it's all but certain that it's going to be Moash. He already kind of had this position in Oathbringer where he got a few viewpoints through the book, but considering the main viewpoint groupings are almost clear at this point, he probably won't get any in the main parts. What I think makes this most likely is the fact that in each previous book, the main interlude viewpoint was taken by a villain. Moash has had some major buildup in his character growth, both internally and in his position within Odium's forces as basically a human Fused, not to mention becoming sort of a leader figure to normal singers. If not Moash, my next guess would be Renarin. He's always been kind of separate from everyone else, we never really know what his deal is and there's kind of some mystery surrounding him. That being said, now that the whole thing with Glys has been revealed, it's a good time to actually start exploring his character and figuring out what exactly is goin on with him.

I'm not saying that it's not bad that he told Kaladin to kill himself, I'm saying that he didn't do it with malicious intent, as backwards as that sounds. The point I'm trying to make here is that particular instance isn't really enough for me to say that Moash has lost any redeeming qualities. He still has great respect for Kaladin and is trying to help him not hurt him, even if the result is morally reprehensible from our perspective.

I think Moash as a character is a more complicated subject than most of the people involved with the discourse realize. It's hard to say whether or not he's good or bad, both due to the elements influencing his beliefs and actions, and the issues surrounding Roshar in general making it difficult to determine what is and isn't right. Since this is the RoW forums, I know everyone's going to be talking about chapter 8, but even in this case I don't think it's as simple as Moash just trying to psychologically torture Kaladin. Moash has been heavily influenced by the Unmade at this point, he's not operating on the same logic as everyone else. At this point Moash believes humanity (with a few exceptions) is corrupt beyond repair, and ultimately doomed due to the fact that the Everstorm makes Odium's forces undying. The war will continue until one side is wiped out, and the final victor should be the singers. He knows that Kaladin pushes himself to save everyone, and carries everyone's death as a personal burden. The only way he could end the pain this puts him in is to give himself up to Odium, or end it himself, and he knows Kaladin well enough to know that he won't give away his pain. Moash sincerely, without a hint of spite or malice, belives that this is the only way to end Kaladin's suffering. As for whether or not he will be redeemed, well, I think it's a little more complicated than it appears at first glance. What would need to happen for him to be redeemed, I mean, isn't it good to be fighting for the singers? Personally, I think Moash is on the right track but misguided, he's fighting for the right people, but for the wrong reasons. His "redemption" (in my eyes) wouldn't involve returning to the human coalition, but allying himself with Venli's faction instead. He'd make a powerful ally, he's practically a member of the Heavenly Ones and seems to be of similar rank to the Fused, and the end of Oathbringer seemed to imply he was gaining a strong influence with some of the regular singers.

I thought she let the mask down because the Mink had left. It's just a coincidence that Shallan was leading him away.

I've been thinking that since Words of Radiance, but it would take some time. I don't think Jasnah would up and leave Roshar if there was no one to take her place as monarch of Alethkar, especially not when there's a risk of someone overturining her decision to abolish slavery.

Did anyone else have a map of Roshar open while they were reading this chapter? This is a pretty good theory. I also suspect it might have something to do with the Nine not fully trusting the Skybreakers. Granted, Odium can make some strong deals, and I imagine it must be difficult to lie to him, not to mention the Skybreakers in general don't do well with any forms of spycraft. However, they are stationed in Azir, which is on the other side of the planet from Kholinar, which puts a lot of distance between the Skybreakers and the major Fused leadership.

I think it's just rumors. People see a man and a woman sharing a lot of time together and they assume it has to be something scandalous going on. It makes perfect sense for the characters in series to assume that's what's going on, but I have no doubts that they've all got the wrong idea. They're just discussing the secrets of the greater Cosmere, and how to defeat Odium, but since not everyone is prepared to deal with that knowledge they keep it on the down low.

Far gone from who? If it's the humans, then yeah, I don't think they'd ever take him back or that he'd ever want to go back in the first place, but I'm assuming that this would happen if Moash joined the Listeners. If it's the singers then I don't think we've seen enough to make that assumption, we've only seen him on a battlefield and at a meeting with the Fused, we don't know how his relationship with ordinary singers has changed or developed, but considering the end of Oathbringer I feel like he was being built up as an important leader to them. If you think he's just too far gone in general, then that's fair. This whole theory is assuming he can break Odium's influence in the first place and set aside his desire for revenge to focus on protecting and supporting the singers in the first place, which I'll admit is a bit of a stretch. Also, we already know there are some spren willing to support the new Listener faction, since Timbre has said there are more like her willing to bond with singers in the first place, and some might find the idea more palatable if they can bond with humans who support the Listeners instead. Well, Hoid is Hoid, I think we can accept that he's a bit of an exception. My main point comes from a WoB, where Brandon states it's hard for heavily invested people to form a Nahel bond, because Investiture tends to resist Investiture (the example he used in this case was a Returned bonding a spren). Granted, I misremembered the quote, he said it was difficult but not impossible. Questioner Can a Returned gain a Nahel bond? Brandon Sanderson It is not outside the realm of possibility. Much more easy than Nightblood [gaining a Nahel bond]. Invested things resist other Investiture and so it depends on amounts of Investiture and it depends on a lot of factors. But that one's a mixing that could happen. Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016) I think a Fused becoming a Radiant would be more difficult than a Herald but it could be possible. That being said, I think the main difficulty would be other parties allowing it to happen. Mainly Odium, who might be able to kill her before she could actually make the bond, and I doubt Yunfah would be that willing to bond her in the first place. He wouldn't bond a member of Bridge 4 because he's a listener, I don't think one of his immortal enemies would seem much more appealing.

Debatable, I mean when he was a slave he straight up attacked a Fused who was abusing Sah and Khen's group. It wasn't even out of anger, he just didn't want to see them become like humans when they have a chance to be better than them. He then helped them learn to fight when they were being sent in the siege on Kholinar, essentially as a suicide mission, which has some strong parallels to Kaladin and Bridge 4. Moash is a villain to humans, and I don't think he's ever going to return to them, but he can be a hero to the singers.

I think as a Fused, Leshwi is just too Invested to be able to actually form a spren bond, not to mention she gets her power directly from Odium. My guess is although Yunfah is against it now, he will eventually decide to bond with Rlain of his own volition. It would be cool though if in RoW Moash decides to ally with the Listeners, prioritizing protecting the singers over revenge on the kingdoms of humans, which leads to him becoming a real Windrunner.

I think if anything it would be related to his scholarly pursuits, his desire to seek out and learn new things about magic and other subjects and pass it on to others. This could be why he takes a more non-intervention role in the Stormlight books.

In a world filled with magic, sometimes it's fun to have a character who shows that humans can just be amazing on their own. Plus explaining his talents through magic takes away some of the, well, "magic" of him being able to do those things in the first place. It goes from "wow, this guy is really talented!" to "oh, he's just using the same magic as basically everyone else.

Maybe, but it probably has more to do with the fact that "voidbringer" was traditionally a word used to describe the humans by the singers.

If the possibility of revival exists, it wouldn't be as easy as developing a relationship and swearing new oaths. Brandon has said that deadeye spren have serious damage, a piece of their spiritual being is literally missing and would have to be replaced. I know it's sort of a meme, but I don't think Adolin "filling the gaps" in a reverse Nahel bond is really plausible because the bonds don't really work that way, spren are fundamentally different from humans, I seriously doubt the roles could be so easily interchanged. I do think Maya will be revived, but it would have to be through some means that are either so specific or difficult that there would basically be no reason to unless you really wanted to revive a spren for whatever reason.

He also has to deal with the fact that he's now next in line to be king, while knowing that he's not fit for that role. His concerns that he doesn't measure up to his father, the world is changing around him and he isn't as impressive as he used to be, and he assassinated a man and doesn't really feel bad about it. When trying to get through the Oathgate, he's powerless to do anything against the Fused that guard the gate and he nearly dies.

I think Rock is only growing into something else because he refused to fight in the first place, and is now leaving Bridge 4 altogether. Rlain is still an active member, only staying out of combat because he hasn't gained the abilities of a squire, and he desires to join the Windrunners as well.