Honorless

Hello @hystorm! Welcome to the Shard! Glad to have you with us!

Their primary attribute guiding, probably

Khriss uses the same line once, but we don't have more info

Be careful with gross oversimplifications

Okay true, it's the quote that he refers to, from Khriss that makes me wonder...

Yeah but not just Rlain, bring on the road with Khen and Sah has made him by far the character most empathetic of the situation with the Singers, the only one who had him beat was Eshonai in how understanding she was of humans

The Radiant Orders seem to exemplify certain interpretations of honor I'd put leadership with Windrunners though

Uh, I'll disagree on the basis of how Eric framed his question

I had a long, long list of recommendations that I kept sitting on my to-read list. One of them, Garth Nix's Sabriel is still there... It took me a while but I got through it all to finally select the Final Empire. I had recently read the Wise Man's Fear (disappointment) and The Painted Man (disappointment). Both were rather... well... never mind! My reaction to the books (the Cosmere ones not the two mentioned above): I was aware of the hype surrounding Brandon's name at the time regarding magic systems and knack for foreshadowing. I didn't catch anything there . I didn't even realize what the epigraphs were till Vin started reading them, I did not foresee Kelsier's decision and like I said, I did not realize the Lord Ruler's identity. I got hooked! The next book was my fav. I'm in the minority, I know, mostly because of Zane *sighs*. I felt really bad for him and Reen especially after the reveal in the first book of their circumstances. I loved the characterizations of Vin, Elend, Sazed, Tindwyl, Breeze, Dox, Marsh, Spook in this book. Was pleasantly surprised by Allrianne and Ashweather Cett. Meeting Human the Koloss was another beautiful sad moment, this I did catch. I did not catch the alterations and was absolutely gobsmacked with Ruin's reveal. I didn't see the Kandra reveal coming either. HoA, yeah I didn't catch who the Hero of Ages was. I loved Sazed's characterization here as well. I could connect to someone who lost their faith rather abruptly since I'm the same. I didn't like Spook here, nor Beldre. I was intrigued by Yomen. Here, I must confess. I got the delivery of Secret History and... yeah. Mind blown. It did not diminish the experience of reading either books at all. In fact, I'll go so far as to recommend this reading order! I read it slowly, making sure to keep pace with the timeline in both the books. Spoiler alert: The endings were absolutely amazing. I loved Leras' character and coming back from the Ire chapters to read that was heartbreaking. And yeah, I did not foresee any of the Ascensions or Elend's final stand. I similarly went in blind into the Stormlight Archives. That prelude. That first chapter. I had absolutely no idea who or what the Knights Radiant were supposed to be. The mix of Kaladin's Bridgeruns, Dalinar's dreams and Shallan's 'ghosts' were awesome! I loved the drawings and the interludes, especially Axies and Ishikk, Baxil too, for the insight into the Nightwatcher. I loved the contrast of the Heralds' situation of torture & war and reverence & worship (this I did catch, not that it was difficult to, though I obviously did not catch the identities of the three men in Ishikk's interlude). WoR: I did not catch the fact that Shallan had already bonded. Dang it! And I most definitely did not foresee them discovering Urithiru this fast! I did not catch Jasnah's survival either. I hadn't read Warbreaker yet, so I didn't catch Nightblood either. I did mark Zahel as suspicious though and I did notice Hoid. The Stormlight Archives are beautiful to go into completely blind, I cannot emphasize this enough! There was so much to unpack there. I didn't catch Azure's identity immediately but did realize she was from elsewhere and caught the connection with Zahel & Nightblood. The Dalinar backstory took me completely by surprise and I'm still not sure where I stand regarding that. I loved Sadeas' comeupp. I hated Elhokar and was absolutely convinced & anxious that he was going to heal & kill Moash. Then Moash stabbed him in the face, nice. I hated & pitied Amaram and was very satisfied with the conclusion. It was actually a great study of his character and was a bit of a surprise with killing what looked like the main character's rival. It was while completing Oathbringer that I started taking notes and realized what I was looking at. Elantris was somewhat lacklustre in comparison, though once again I did not see any of the twists coming. The city thing I realized the moment Raoden did at the pool. I did not like Hrathen all that much actually and preferred reading Sarene who seemed more grounded and real than the other two. Plus the side characters there were amazing, especially her Seon! I loved the concluding scenes and the way the Derethi were lining people up for execution. I did not foresee Dilaf's madness. The conclusion made the book well worth it but still lacking in comparison to the other two series in the emotional gutpunch. I didn't feel as invested in the characters. I loved Warbreaker's beginning! Vasher & the introduction to the magic was awesome. Siri getting shipped off then the perspective of someone getting worshipped & people begging for them to die again, just whoa! Then I got absolutely tired & bored of Vivenna and left that book for months and kind of forgot about it. Then came the revelation of the betrayal & destitution, yup, hooked again! I didn't see Lightsong's death coming either, I really should've but I didn't. This one made me feel. A strangely dark & colourful book, this one. Next were the short stories and novellas, which I had to hunt down separately as I couldn't find Arcanum Unbounded or download/order it in my country for some reason (that problem's no longer a problem). Edgedancer was, as Lift would say, awesome. I fell in love with 'Emperor's Soul'. 'Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell', not so much. I warmed up to it after rereads. I couldn't get my hands on Sixth of the Dusk but eventually found it in audiobook. Oh my god! During this period I kept having to start over from the beginning with Alloy of Law which I just couldn't seem to get into. I finished it somehow. Then after finishing every other reading and rereading finished it's sequel Shadows of Self. I did not enjoy this one either. Bands of Mourning took me by surprise and I decided to give the previous two a second try. It took a while to let go of the old Mistborn characters and era but I managed to reread them and enjoy them. This is currently the series that I have reread most often due to its humour, plot, length and well, general rereadability. I read White Sand vol 1 & was really disappointed. It was very disjointed, the characters felt flat, I hated Khriss. Vol 2 was magnitudes better and I could finally actually feel the characters' journey somewhat. I rather liked Vol 3, surprisingly but more on that later. After this I joined the Shard, got both White Sand prose and Aether of Night. Aether had a very forced quality to it that I did not like but was overall wasn't as bad as I was lead to believe. The surprise was White Sand prose. Kenton & Khriss & the world were so much more fleshed out! It's mind-boggling how much content was cut from the GN and how badly it was all presented. But the ending was surprisingly lack lustre and I found that I mostly preferred the GN Vol 3 version much more. Next on my list: Skyward How I joined the Shard: With trepidation. Forums don't have a good rep among my friends and for good reason. So I checked for a few small criteria and decided to dip my toes before going in. I checked that the moderators were not anonymous (always check this). I checked for response to LGBT community. I dipped my toes in with my most controversial opinion (Moash) and then I just decided to stick around. I found The Nightwatcher Boon/Bane thread, definitely one of the most fun threads on here, go check it out!

It's like the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil from the Old Testament. One forbidden thing, or going further back to the Greek Pandora

You've found them!

Inflammatory? Why would it be inflammatory? I'm asking people not to project themselves onto the Lighteyes simply because people were comparing being white irl with being Lighteyes

Military philosophy is going to be contentious. Suffice it to say that I have issues regarding a lot of it. Did anyone notice how inaccessible Elend got in WoA and HoA during certain moments when we are usually shown what's going on in the headspace of the protagonist ? He had no PoVs exactly during those moments or when he (rarely) did it was in a very clinical mindset. That's a good way of using PoVs, I must say

Currently, we're slated to get a Threnody novel, an Aethers trilogy, possibly an Emperor's Soul sequel, a Sixth of the Dusk YA novel as well as a direct sequel, a Silverlight novella featuring Khriss There are still multiple Stormlight novellas on the table too: Wandersail: a Rysn novella featuring Aimia, a Rock novella, possibly even a Lopen novella or short story

No, the Forgotten are not the Aedin ancestors. They are not the souls of those tossed into the proto-Perpendicularity as a form of execution. They are... astral bodies of the Vo-Dari priests. That's why the Vo-Dari priests themselves were immobile, they were each piloting a different body. The Forgotten are not themselves the Aether of Night, they are formed from it. They are the product rather than the thing itself. Yup, you're on the money there. It was Makkal. Did you catch which twin was Slaughter and which twin was Despair? The Aethers were not godmetals. Perpendicularities are usually the liquid form of Investiture. The number of Perpendicularities is not necessarily indicative of the number of Shards. A single Shard can have multiple Shardpools. We have seen an instance where there is a permanent stable perpendicularity on a planet with no Shard in residence. The Fell Twins seem like very powerful Splinters rather than Shards themselves. There only seem to be two proto-Shards on the Aethers planet: The Former (the verb not the adjective, as in 'to form', rather than 'the one before') and Decay

Oh, well I'm glad he left the biblical tree analogue behind

Guys, you've all read the books, don't project yourselves on the lighteyes on the basis of colourism.

Here's the accepted definition of classism: Class discrimination, also known as classism, is prejudice or discrimination on the basis of social class. It includes individual attitudes, behaviors, systems of policies and practices that are set up to benefit the upper class at the expense of the lower class. Also does not apply to Kaladin. Also what exactly are you trying to say here? A poor person disliking rich people is classism?

Tantalizing

Hmm, I think you're trying to apply too modern a perspective on this. Kaladin's situation is not like today's political climate at all. He genuinely had far less Human Rights simply because of the colour of his eyes. He remained open to Dalinar throughout the Amaram debacle and was genuinely heartbroken by his promotion and later his own jailing. He's open with Shallan despite the callousness she displayed on their first meeting and many other sprinkled instances. He extended the same courtesy of trust towards Adolin and maintained it despite a lot of comments on Adolin's part. He became just as protective of Shen/Rlain and Renarin as any other of his men. He reflects on his attitudes towards others when prompted. He's by far the most progressive character in Stormlight

Did you mean 'Parshendi'? Sometimes I love auto-correct (only when it happens to other people though, )

Thanks @DiePie! That was a very interesting read

That's was not my point at all. "They just show people with power who tries to use power for good things" this is closer to the point I was trying to make, that spin to the classic trope "attempting to tear the system down" I would prefer to see the modern systems in the making too. Too long has fantasy been stuck in the middle ages

Other relevant threads: I should note that dissecting the word 'racism' is not nitpicky at all, the word has history behind it. It can be heartening to see people forgetting the original coinage of the word too, in a way. In a way it means that a lot of the worst of it has been fought away But remember again that the word has weight, remember to be considerate and remember, people, to not put your foot in your mouth