LewsTherinTelescope

There were definitely points where just a little Surgebinding would make it easier, of a small enough amount to not really matter. Nah, it's confirmed new bodies get made. Which is... weird. Sure, Intent can only do what something is able to do. Under this theory, drawing from the Spiritual is something it can do, thus Intent can use it. Well, the MCs currently have zero Honorblades, and the plot going to the place that has them is probably Book 5 stuff, so they probably won't even get them till near the climax, I feel. Heh, yeah, there's a lot of small details like this that get lost. Fair enough. I mean, "that would be a new mechanic" was your argument. Much of what metalminds store is actually part of the spiritweb, as shown by Hemalurgy being able to steal similar things. No, because he can tap more of it at once to get stronger Allomantic ability, and I believe he taps smaller amounts of it at times. I'll have to reread to be sure on the latter part though.

I agree with this part. I do not agree with this part. Dude surely has access to a decent amount of money, and spheres do recharge relatively often. The immortal part, sure. But the new bodies part seems to be something else. a. it's not a retcon, it's an established mechanic in Cosmere books that you often have to know about an ability to use it, and that your perception of your powers limits said powers; b. there only being one of each order is a rather large limit. WoR 87. Kaladin does note that it's weird and has no gem. Metals drawing from a metalmind when you burn them would be a much newer mechanic than Allomantic genes being added or strengthened. Correct. And the Investiture that these metalminds store is the part of your spiritweb allowing you to use Allomancy or Feruchemy, which under their definition of the term, is called "Investiture". (And would indeed be Investiture, as that's what the spiritweb is made of.) Why would you need to burn metals if it stored raw Allomantic power?

I think that, before Chapter 8, I would say Moash had some justification. After Chapter 8, I can only say he's a horrible person. I expect him to be given a shot at redemption, but not take it. 50/50 on if I expect him to survive the front half, but will probably die by Book 10 at the latest.

Except Nale's also a Fifth Ideal Radiant, which I would assume would be more efficient than Kaladin. I suppose. No? They're still immortal beings who are reborn into newly made bodies when they die, which is a rather big boost over anyone else. Because there's barely any of them, and because the MCs likely won't learn it until late in their arcs. That's deadblades. So far as I'm aware, Honorblades don't have gems. Do you have a source for this? In BoM, the definition of Investiture they give is "the innate ability to burn metals or tap metalminds", so when they say "Investiture", they mean ability, not kinetic Investiture.

Well, Kaladin doesn't have an Honorblade, and if he did, he would not know he could enough to use it with Intent. You think Honor was following them around and fueling them manually the whole time? For meta reasons, I don't think Brandon would have him say "an Honorblade could make you more than just an unoathed Radiant, but almost a Herald", and have it not mean anything. Assuming that they knew the Heralds didn't need it. They knew of Radiants, they may have just assumed it was similar. Or perhaps they knew of it in the past and forgot about it. I mean, presumably in the past they didn't think 10 heartbeats were required, as they found the Blades long pre-Recreance. And yet, they now assume it needs 10 heartbeats. The Investiture stored is what grants the ability to burn a metal. This runs out as you tap it. But burning a metal still draws the power for the Allomantic effect from the Spiritual.

Sure, but it's still a small enough amount Nale could carry it around easy. Which is the role the Honorblades would be playing. I mean, we know from the Stormfather that the Honorblades are capable of more that people don't know about. I didn't say the Honorblades were copying anything? No, it stores Allomantic ability. Someone using one still has to burn metals and get power from the Spiritual to use Allomancy.

It's not like bringing a few spheres along is that much of a pain. Why would Honor's mind be needed to draw from the Spiritual? Well, you need to hold the sword, and you need to somehow learn it can do that, which is probably rather difficult, considering I doubt the Heralds ever told anyone about it. But.... you can still use the Honorblade without making use of the conduit. Would efficiency not come into play, still? They don't even know that you can summon one instantly. Why would they know about the conduit? ....and what does a nicrosilmind normally give...?

He lives on Roshar, and leads an order of the Knights Radiant. There is zero reason he should be running low on Stormlight. So I expect there's some other reason behind it. Exactly, it exists and can be used. I interpreted "the powers you are familiar with" as Surgebinding, because that was what the question was about. I am very curious why he made the Honorblades open at all, even if it just grants Surgebinding. Perhaps the Heralds have a way of keeping them safe somehow (I mean, they manage to get their Honorblades somehow when they return each time, whether that's being reborn with them or stashing them somewhere). Because they definitely grant access to Surgebinding with no Oaths. But this only applies if you know of and use the conduit. When you don't use it, and provide SL yourself, you run into efficiency issues. Also, this argument applies if the Herald has the conduit too. If hooking something up to infinite Investiture under your definition makes efficiency a wrong term, then when a Herald uses it, it would no longer be less efficient? Because when we see it's used, it is working at a lower efficiency. But it is for some powers. Allomancy draws from the Spiritual, and so granting Allomancy is a way to grant the ability to draw from the Spiritual.

When did we see him use Division, or Lash anything besides himself? Yes, he is. But what does that entail? He.... did not say that there were any mystery powers or anything. I do not disagree. You asked why have the Heralds if just anyone can Surgebind with the Honorblades, I answered. No, the Spiritual Realm is the fuel tank. They do not "generate" power, they just let it flow out. Correct. The question for efficiency is how much SL does it use to achieve a specific effect. And it is less efficient than a Radiant. Efficiency is just irrelevant if you know it's a conduit. However, the current users do not. Except the conduit is not comparable to the metalmind itself. It is comparable to the abilities granted by the metalmind.

He has an Honorblade and is a Fifth Ideal Radiant, and barely uses any of his power at all. Even if Honorblades aren't the conduit, that's a good question. So I don't consider it a flaw with this theory, until we learn why he used his power so little in general. The Shard of Honor still exists, as the WoB you cited earlier says. So far as we know, unlike on Sel, Odium does not seem to have moved it out of the Spiritual. As for what he did do, no idea. I would say they share a single power if asked for more but overall would say they grant a different powerset. I mean, those are powers. And as far as we know, Taln was not holding SL when he caught the dart. Because the Heralds do more than Surgebind, they maintain the Oathpact. The latter is their top priority, the former is a tool to help them doing so. They are not themselves a fuel tank, though. They're an engine with a pipe hooked up to one. They do not automatically do so, correct. You'd have to know the pipe was there and open it. (I don't know how engines work, so this may be straining the analogy for all I know, but hopefully it gets what I'm saying across.) They grant an ability when you touch them, if you know it's there. In this case, one such ability is the ability to draw power. (And actually, Allomancy does draw from the Spiritual Realm, so granting Allomancy is granting the ability to draw from the Spiritual, albeit in a much more limited quantity.) The implication that fans might think it could and Brandon doesn't want to ruin speculation, is another possiblity.

Nah, he's gotta go bigger and better. It'll turn into a quartet of quartets! (And still be written in the same amount of time as the novella)

No, but it means that that point against it doesn't necessarily mean much. Except Honor the Shard still exists. It's just Tanavast the Vessel who doesn't. (And even he does, actually, because the SF merged with his Cognitive Shadow.) If something grants one shared power and two different ones, I'd say it grants a different powerset. Immortality. Enhanced reflexes. I believe a sort of pain sharing may have been implied but I'm not sure of this. If you hook an inefficient engine up to an infinite fuel tank, it's still inefficient. The efficiency just doesn't matter much. The question was if the bestowal of the power functions similarly, and the answer was they use similar underlying fundamentals. None of that says anything about the actual power being granted being similar. I think it was just that he doesn't want to talk about if Honor's death changed the Honorblades or not. That does not mean it did change them much, just that it could potentially be revealed or hinted at whether it did or not later on.

Obviously because the only reason to like Hoid is his enormous sex appeal /s

Ah, but the book that became a quartet started as a novella, which is even better. Brandon is addicted to writing lol.

I doubt it, personally. The ten heartbeats is due to reviving the dead spren, which isn't really something Honorblades would need. And Brandon has heavily implied it's just due to Szeth's perception. Did he use Stormlight at all for anything besides flight? There's a deeper question there that probably answers this too: why hasn't he done anything else with his powers, like Lash things at people or use Division? (At least, I don't recall him doing either.) Because they don't know that they can. See the above WoB on 10 heartbeats. I interpreted that sentence differently, then. I read it as "the Honorblades are a piece of his soul, and are direct access to his essence". I feel the emphasis in the audio supports that, but that's open to interpretation I think. He also said it specifically in response to a question about if Honor powered them directly. I mean, they grant different Surges either way. No it does not. It says he will not confirm that they don't, not that he is saying that they do. (And based on the Amaram and Taln scene, they've got enhanced reflexes likely, as well as the fact that, y'know, they can make new bodies for themselves when they die.) I mean, I'd say that's why they're less efficient - who needs efficiency when you've got a super massive amount of fuel? Anyone can use the abilities if they know about them, correct. And the footnote says that that was resolved and that they still can. So I'd say that that's just Brandon being cagey about them.

Szeth also has to wait 10 heartbeats before using the Blade. Perception is extremely important with these things, as is Intent. If you don't know you can do something, you can't, in some cases (see: metalminds, where you can't sense the store until you know it's a metalmind).

Do we know this? I'd say they probably are. To me, this says they are the conduit to the essence of Honor in the Spiritual.

I fail to see why the Honorblades would have issues when the Stormfather does not. We know that the Honorblades are parts of Honor's soul that grant access to the power, so imo, it should work just fine, as long as the power exists in the Spiritual (and the SF being able to draw out the power would imo prove that there's still a massive amount in the SR).

The Stormfather brings it through, sure, but presumably it's still Honor's Investiture.

That's a Herald, singular, not Heralds plural But yeah that's just me being super pedantic, lol. In my opinion, if Stormlight can still come through from the Spiritual during a highstorm, the Investiture in the Spiritual is whole enough to be drawn through an Honorblade. But that's pure opinion, don't think we have enough to be fully sure.

I mean, it's not like most of the Heralds exactly have their Honorblades anymore. Second one explicitly says it's not less than before, first one is super vague and does not say anything about what those effects are.

Naturally

Ah okay, yeah that makes sense. Yeah, it's hard to actually say much with much certainty on the Unmade, even though we've seen(ish) 6 lol.

That's a good point, I didn't think about how translation could play into it. What you're saying definitely makes sense.

Willshapers: Dustbringers: Of the two, Willshapers feels much more Cultivation and less Honor, though Dustbringers feel more towards the middle than fully one or the other. But I'd put Dustbringers with Honor and Willshapers with Cultivation if I had to pick one. For Dalinar, yes. But the order blurb for them says: This to me indicates that Bondmiths likely could vary much more greatly than other orders, both in Oaths and in personality, and as such assigning them a side will not go particularly well. Also, we know that Oaths come from the fundamental nature of the spren, and so the Nightwatcher being a Bondsmith spren would likely have a pretty large effect.