Pagliacci

On 10/09/2019 at 11:16 AM, Nathrangking said:

@Pagliacci, @phoenix2563, @Wyndlerunner, @Jaywalk when you have a critique please let me know.

Life's been pretty hectic as of late but I'll try to read the draft as soon as I can.

1 hour ago, Elegy said:

In my opinion, Edgar Wright's Cornetto trilogy for instance is amazing - not because the films are deep, but because they, as I see it, are extremely good at being funny

That, my friend, is the real controversial opinion in this discussion. There's quite a lot of depth in the Cornetto Trilogy.

@Elegy, @Eluvianii in regards to the topic of enjoying bad art I'd be curious to know what your thoughts are on 'escapist' fiction and whether that can be considered 'good' and/or enjoyable.

I'd say there's a difference between being elitist and just having standards. Elitism would be dismissing comics as a medium (Which in my experience is only really done by people who have never actually read a comic). But I wouldn't consider it elitism to say I don't enjoy Liefeld's Youngblood series and would rather read something by Jeff Lemire instead.

As Elegy touched upon the acceptance of mediocrity bequeaths greater mediocrity, such is the nature of the capitalist system under which we live. This whole discussion touches upon so many fascinating questions. Does art need to have value? What makes art good? What is bad art? 

Shad got me into Sanderson so this is just amazing!

Righto. Sorry for the late response.

I'm continuing to enjoy the story. I question your choice to keep our protagonist's(?) name ambiguous. At points it was unclear whether the narrative was referring to the protagonist or the doctor. I'm a little confused as to the POV of the story. Is this an omniscient narrator, as would be suggested by the visual descriptors? 

A minor inconsistency was the protagonist claiming to sue the hospital 'for all it's worth' and yet also claims he doesn't have the money to pay for the hospital. Was this just a hollow threat on the part of the man?

The prose mixes a lot of similes and metaphors which makes for some rather interesting results, though you should cut out some of those pesky adverbs. Have you ever read the Gormenghast trilogy by Mervyn Peake? His prose is darkly poetic and it bears some similarity to what you're going for here. Perhaps you'd enjoy the books. 

The narrative is somewhat disorienting but I'm assuming this is intentional and all will (eventually) become clear.

@Nathrangking I'll read and hopefully offer some critiques sometime in the next 48 hours.

@Use the Falchion

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

I thought the theme was never about "can or should Clark be Superman," given how we all know that he will be, but rather "is the world ready for Superman?" Or if we're going with the lack of subtlety, "is the world ready for salvation?" Clark's actions say yes but his own experiences say no, and he's torn.

I feel my interpretation of the question and your interpretation of the question are tied together. Whether or not Clark should be Superman is tied to whether the world is ready or not.

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

Zod is the villain to explicitly further this question

As all good antagonists should, Zod is forcing Supes to make difficult choices. Alas, Clark doesn't make any choices until Zod shows up, which in my opinion makes Clark something of a passive and (in this case) weak protagonist.

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

Now HOW people react to that message is the main topic is BvS

That and about a bazillion other things. One of the main flaws of that film is it tries to juggle too many things at once.

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it Clark's discovery of the old Kyrptonian suit (the Superman suit) what sent the beacon to Zod's ship to let them know where Clark was?

 

Yeah, that's true. Though keep in mind this was an accidental consequence of Clark's decision. He had no way of knowing that there would be any consequences. So he's still not really making any choices where he's conscious of the consequences.

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

As for the destruction of Metropolis, given that BvS was more or less all about that, I'd say not talking about it was more of an arc problem than a movie problem (I assume Snyder knew it'd be discussed, but he didn't think he'd get the vitriol he did for it)

Eh, I have to disagree here. A film should be able to stand on its own and MoS utterly fails to even acknowledge the death and destruction caused by the battle at the end of the film. I'd argue it's more of a movie problem than an arc problem. I feel MoS handles it rather immaturely actually. Mere minutes after the destructive battle the film sprinkles in jokes and forces in levity. For a film that seems to wallow in angst, it picked the least appropriate time to be jovial. In regards to what Snyder 'knew' we can't say. (Unless he explicitly stated somewhere in an interview that were the case. Still, it's an issue unaddressed by the film). Then we also have to consider Death of the Author but that's a whole other can of worms.

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

Oathbringer has a similar - albeit less controversial - example with Rlain disappearing halfway through the book. We notice him gone, and Sanderson knows we know, so we trust Sanderson has something planned.

I reckon the reason that's less controversial is because the Rlain thing is related to a secondary character whereas the MoS issue relates to the climax of the story. 

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

Comicbook fans didn't trust Snyder and felt justified in not doing so

If people felt the film was made poorly then yeah, they probably would've left the film not having much trust in him. If they'd disliked his previous work they may have been wary as well. I went into the film wary myself, considering how abysmal his Watchmen adaptation was.

On 07/05/2019 at 1:14 AM, Use the Falchion said:

As for Clark not being shown saving lives of the people around him after the fight, I'm torn. On one hand, I see your point. On the other hand, I can easy see Clark being unsure as to how to save people. Stopping a rig (which he didn't successfully do) is probably easier to him than stopping a building from falling. Or maybe, even worse, Clark tried to save people but they were afraid of him, so left because he didn't want to make it worse. 

That would have been an interesting route to take but the problem is Supes doesn't seem interested in helping people during any of his massive battles.

This is an absurdly late response and I'm sorry about that. 

10 hours ago, Ixthos said:

@Pagliacci Makes sense :-) which type of telekinesis do you prefer though? Long range, close range, strong, weak, fine control, brute force, multiple objects, single object, can be blocked, can't be blocked, needs line of sight, doesn't need line of sight?

 

Um... yes. I'd never given much thought to it really. Limited telepathy I guess?

In regards to how to define magic, well it can be surprisingly difficult. If any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic then it could be also said that any sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from technology. I think each and every author and story has their own approach to how they define and approach magic really. The most broad definition I suppose is the impossible made possible, I suppose (But then that encapsulates fantasy as a whole, doesn't it?). One way you could look at it is as a spectrum of soft and hard. Dunsany and R.E. Howard utilise pretty soft magic whereas Brandon uses hard magic 'systems'. @Ixthos do you feel that because of Brandon's use of 'systems' that a certain sense of wonder is lost from his magic?

I suppose what is viewed as 'magic' is relative compared to a person or people's level of technological advancement. Magic is really just what we don't yet understand. Of course with modern science it could be said we could potentially understand everything. So fantasy gives us a chance to witness something beyond our understanding and comprehension. This can leave us with a sense of awe (Dunsany) as we gaze with wonder at something so complex and beyond us or can drown us in fear (Lovecraft) at something that dwarfs us because of how impossibly immense it is.

Oh dear, this has become a bit of a ramble.

I approach magic the same way I approach just about any other aspect of a story I'm writing. I consider what themes, ideas, philosophies, subjects or concepts I'm exploring in a particular story and see how magic can be used to enhance and further develop those aspects. The role magic plays from book to book varies wildly for me. Sometimes it's an integral plot device and sometimes it's barely present. As I read and write more I'm beginning to move away from magic 'systems' and focus more on to magic that's unpredictable and unknowable. I write mostly fantasy so technology has never really been something I've developed to any significant degree beyond considering what technology levels my setting would have.

In regards to my favourite magical ability... I'd have to go with telekinesis,

I've been reconsidering my approach to worldbuilding and I've been struck by a question. What even is the function of worldbuilding?

Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast series has very evocative prose.

In the past week I've watched:

Manhattan. It was pretty good. The dialogue was a lot of fun. My second Woody Allen film after Midnight in Paris.

I'm 3/4s through the new Netflix She-Ra show which has been enjoyable to watch with my younger sibling.

The first season of Final Space wasn't too bad. The animation was surprisingly fluid but I felt at times the writing and characters were lacking. Not as sharp or clever as Rick and Morty but also slightly less mean-spirited which was a nice change of pace.

The Revenant which despite having a wonderful performance by Tom Hardy overall felt like an empty drag.

The Death of Stalin which worked better as a drama than as a comedy. The performances were delightful. Simon Russell Beale as the Penguin, anyone?

The Florida Project was an interesting film with a perfect cast. Though I felt the characterisation of the adults was a bit too peripheral and could have dived deeper into the characters.

Robocop (1987) was a very interesting film for me. It's certainly raised my interest to finally watch Starship Troopers.

Also I've never seen Neon Genesis Evangelion but it's now on Netflix. My understanding is the show itself is fantastic but is the dub any good? 

@Ixthos 

5 hours ago, Ixthos said:

@Pagliacci Do you find that placing two different cultures near one another and letting them interact while maintaining the root of their natures gives you entirely new cultures and relations, a sort of gradient between the two, with practices and technologies mingling?

 

I do believe this, yes, most of the time at least. It seems to be the inevitable consequence in both the real world and in fiction. That is of course assuming one culture doesn't completely annihilate another cough colonialism cough. When two or more cultures converge it can create something truly beautiful.

5 hours ago, Ixthos said:

I agree with the insight fantasy and science fiction can give on the current cultures and possible progressions cultures can steer towards :-P

 

With speculative fiction we can look beyond what the world is and give a glimpse at what it could be.

2 hours ago, artiestroke said:

She feels almost trapped there and chafes against that feeling. Maybe I could have the adventurer offer to hire her on?

That'd work. Though perhaps make it so that the Adventurer is reluctant at first but is convinced by the MC? Just to give her some more agency.

17 minutes ago, artiestroke said:

My problem comes with figuring out how to get my MC to leave town- I don’t want her to just lie to her mom or leave a note, running away with the adventurer. I’m also not keen on pulling an Aunt Beru and killing her/the town off. What can I do?

Why does the MC want to leave town? I'm just asking so I can help formulate an answer.

I have a couple of steps/methods.

First, I usually decide to set my stories in a setting based off a period history I'm currently interested in. Feudal Japan, Habsburg Spain, Mesopotamia, and so on. Taking inspiration from other cultures and nations offers a nice groundwork for a story and a society's little intricacies and quirks can add a nice flavour to the story.

I also like taking figures of speeches and making them literal. It's a basic technique but can result in some truly fascinating worlds and civilisations. Usually in addition to this, I like looking at the current world and seeing if there are any issues I'd like to touch on through the exaggerated fantasy worlds I create. Part of the reason I love fantasy is its capacity to interrogate the problems of our world through metaphor and magic.

Most importantly, however, I like to make sure my settings are specifically engineered to hurt my characters. Settings that stack the odds against the main character. 

How, may I ask, have these nations been able to sustain war over four centuries? Is it an Ancient Greece situation where all the nations are on-again, off-again in their conflicts or has this been a continuous effort?

The comic Beautiful Darkness. The graphic violence juxtaposed the cutesy art in a manner that was beyond intense.

If this applies to a story you're working on have you considered how this magic could establish/reinforce/explore any themes?

32 minutes ago, NottTheBrave said:

Pardon my ignorance, but how do I set this as my avatar?  

Yes, do tell.

Also happy pride month, everyone!

Two random dreams I've had recently:

David Bowie was my secret grandfather. We talked about Space Oddity.

I was in the middle of a battle that was half Mad Max and half Game of Thrones.

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin

Lud-in-the-Mist by Hope Mirrlees

Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett

50 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I'm sorry, but it's both. 

In systems of systemic racism, class and race become so inextricably intertwined that trying to tear the two apart is futile. 

Yes, the skaa and nobles had interbreeding to a point that there were no obvious physical differences, but there were still two major differences that persisted. The fertility rates (which were necessary to maintain the skaa population in the face of the brutality they suffered), and frequency of allomancy. No one without noble blood was an Allomancer. 

Kelsier may not have noted a difference in physiology, but he did note one of psychology that he thought meant that as a whole the nobility should die. Up to and including the fact that he thought sparing Elend was "misguided." 

Call it racist. Call it classist. Either way I agree. 

Exactly and besides, race isn't a biological category, it's a political one.

5 minutes ago, Joy said:

If The Stormlight Archive ever became a TV series, which would you prefer: animation or live action?

I'm curious what people think of this. Personally, I'd rather see the Stormlight Archive as an animated series. A big part of the appeal of Roshar for me is the worldbuilding: the spren, the highstorms, the Surgebinding, the bizarre plants and animals. I think animation would do a much better job of capturing these elements than CGI; it would really convey the magic of the world. On the other hand, live action might be better for character-driven moments, of which the story contains plenty. So I'm a little torn, even though I think I'd ultimately prefer animation.

Why do you feel live action would better serve the character driven moments?